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bstone · 05:02 PM

For all the nay-sayers and all who would leave negative comments- please don't. I did try to work this out with the guy and he was just a jerk the entire time.

I just got back from my county court house where I sued a guy who ran an eBay auction a few years ago. I won the auction and PROMPTLY paid him via PayPal mere minutes after the auction. I waited and waited and waited but the product wasn't coming. Emails and calls to the guy were never returned. Finally over a month later it came- wrong color, used parts, etc. I left him negative feedback saying it took forever, wrong parts. He left me negative feedback saying

Slow to pay and then wanted item delivered before we received payment.

What?? I have PayPal receipt from mere minutes after the auction! I called the guy and he said

If you leave me negative feedback then I'll do the same for you.

I complained to eBay. No help. They said they have a hands off approach. Frustrating. As I don't often buy or sell on ebay this one piece of negative feedback (along with another bogus one which the guy JUST agreed to remove) has tanked my approval below 90%. That's bad! I have missed out on bids and no doubt some of my items didn't sell due to this.

So I sued the guy. Yeah. You heard me. Sued. The guy told me to flip off. eBay was no help. My county court is 1.1 miles away and it cost me $40 to file. The paperwork was SO simple. I was in and out in 15 minutes, receipt in hand, he's getting sued.

I did call the guy after I walked out of the court house. Still being a nice guy I told him if he gets the negative feedback removed, I will dismiss the suit. I won't even complain about the court fees.

Surprisingly....he's agreeable. Now we see if he'll actually do it.

PB2K · Jul 5, 2007, 04:51 PM

How much $ are we talking about? Is it worth the trouble?

bstone · Jul 5, 2007, 04:56 PM

Worth the trouble? Yes it is. In fact, it seems really good to sue the guy. He has done this to others as other ebayers have contacted me sharing the same complaint.

How much money? I put down $1000. Defamation of character and libel are subject to punitive damages in my state. I am willing to dismiss it all for a simple delete. No doubt people have not voted because of my sub-90% approval rating. With this deleted it will go above 90%.

rickey939 · Jul 5, 2007, 04:56 PM

Rumor · Jul 5, 2007, 05:00 PM

Once you win the $1000, fly to his house and kick him in the nuts.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jul 5, 2007, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

The paperwork was SO simply.

I bet.

bstone · Jul 5, 2007, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Once you win the $1000, fly to his house and kick him in the nuts.

I might get arrested then. No thanks.

Sherman Homan · Jul 5, 2007, 05:03 PM

I told him if he gets the negative feedback removed, I will dismiss the suit.

Be really careful with that. It is a very fine line between negotiation and extortion. Got any lawyer friends?

bstone · Jul 5, 2007, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan

Be really careful with that. It is a very fine line between negotiation and extortion. Got any lawyer friends?

I put on the Complaint that I would be willing to enter into mediation. Clearly, I am trying to be as nice as possible about this.

andi*pandi · Jul 5, 2007, 05:17 PM

I wouldn't back down. If he removes the neg feedback, maybe 1/2 the fine... don't drop it entirely. Otherwise he won't learn and you'll be out the court fees. He's only negotiating now because he knows he's stuck.

alligator · Jul 5, 2007, 05:19 PM

Good luck, and I'm glad you filed the suit. Concilliation court is very simple and should be used more often in situations like this. You can represent yourself, but make sure you come prepared (which is a no-brainer). I did the same thing against a dry cleaner that tried to pull one over on my wife. We got the result we wanted, and the dry cleaner was forced to pay. Learn something from this though, as this probably took time out of your life you'd rather not spend on matters like this.

In the end, stand up for yourself, you'd be suprised what you can accomplish!

KisforKennedy · Jul 5, 2007, 05:25 PM

I had a scuffle a few times on ebay, but most of the time it's very smooth. One time, this lady wouldn't pay, wouldn't pay, wouldn't pay, so I left her negative feedback, and she left negative feedback on mine. Whatever. I relisted the item, this OTHER lady said she wanted it, won the auction but never paid. She kept saying she was having ALL these issues in her life, bla bla bla bla bla, she'd send me a new excuse each week, for over 1.5 months, so I signed her work email up for porn. She promptly paid.

Powerbook · Jul 5, 2007, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

Worth the trouble? Yes it is. In fact, it seems really good to sue the guy. He has done this to others as other ebayers have contacted me sharing the same complaint.

How much money? I put down $1000. Defamation of character and libel are subject to punitive damages in my state. I am willing to dismiss it all for a simple delete. No doubt people have not voted because of my sub-90% approval rating. With this deleted it will go above 90%.

Too many a$$holes and total N00bs on eBay anyhow, it just ain't fun no more...

PB.

KisforKennedy · Jul 5, 2007, 05:29 PM

I still have a good time selling things on there, without problems. The problems I listed were from 2001-2002 sometime.

torsoboy · Jul 5, 2007, 05:58 PM

If I went as far as you did (filing the lawsuit) I would not have offered a way out for him. He will not learn ANYTHING from you letting him off for it.

I didn't know you could remove a negative remark. eBay already looks/feels crappy and I very very rarely use it, but having a "hands off" approach to this type of thing, and allowing people to delete/re-rate others is makes it even worse in my mind. By letting people 'change their mind" they leave open a huge flaw in their system where people don't actually get to see what a person is like. In your case it is nice, but eBay should do it after receiving some sort of proof, not the other guy.

shabbasuraj · Jul 5, 2007, 06:24 PM

ebay sux, use craigslist

bstone · Jul 5, 2007, 11:53 PM

I think the point of Small Claims Court is being served here. For too long now this issue has been infuriating me. The fact that it has been hurting my sales is even more upsetting. His flippant attitude got him exactly where he thought it never would- a defendant in a lawsuit. MY lawsuit! I don't know if it is that I have a hard time letting go, but I felt really good and charged after walking out of court. Finally I will have my day in court.

shinji · Jul 6, 2007, 01:32 AM

A guy gives you negative eBay feedback and you sue him for $1000 for defamation of character

That is hilarious.

edit: why only $1000? what's the statutory maximum for small claims court in your state?

Kerrigan · Jul 6, 2007, 01:37 AM

It's just a matter of time before people start suing each other on MacNN.

Chuckit · Jul 6, 2007, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

It's just a matter of time before people start suing each other on MacNN.

The defense's argument will be, "You're projecting."

PhotoBug · Jul 6, 2007, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

It's just a matter of time before people start suing each other on MacNN.

No doubt it will be over Glossy and matte screens from what i read earlier.

its a hostile conv to get involved in here from the looks.

Kevin · Jul 6, 2007, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

The defense's argument will be, "You're projecting."

Well there is a lot of that going on in this forum. So I wouldn't be surprised.

I am not for the casual lawsuit bstone, but if you get the desired results.

C.A.T.S. CEO · Jul 6, 2007, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by KisforKennedy

I had a scuffle a few times on ebay, but most of the time it's very smooth. One time, this lady wouldn't pay, wouldn't pay, wouldn't pay, so I left her negative feedback, and she left negative feedback on mine. Whatever. I relisted the item, this OTHER lady said she wanted it, won the auction but never paid. She kept saying she was having ALL these issues in her life, bla bla bla bla bla, she'd send me a new excuse each week, for over 1.5 months, so I signed her work email up for porn. She promptly paid.

bstone · Jul 6, 2007, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by shinji

A guy gives you negative eBay feedback and you sue him for $1000 for defamation of character

That is hilarious.

edit: why only $1000? what's the statutory maximum for small claims court in your state?

Did you bother to read why I am suing him? I have very little feedback on ebay. This and one other bogus negative (which the guy JUST agreed to remove) were causing me a world of hurt. My approval was below 90% and people were not bidding on my auctions because of that. I was losing money.

The max I can sue for in my local court is $2000. I am not trying to milk any cow. I am willing to dismiss this and absorb the $40 court fee if the guy deletes it. He has until early September.

andi*pandi · Jul 6, 2007, 10:51 AM

you should at least make him pay the court fee. What lesson has he learned about punitive feedback? I hate people who "don't leave feedback until you do" meaning they will change their feedback depending on yours. It's not honest.

bstone · Jul 6, 2007, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

you should at least make him pay the court fee. What lesson has he learned about punitive feedback? I hate people who "don't leave feedback until you do" meaning they will change their feedback depending on yours. It's not honest.

Hmmm....this is worth considering, tho I don't want to come across as a money hungry jerk. I am not! I simply want this off my feedback. If it requires a court order to get it then so be it. At least one other person here said I should continue with the suit even if he deletes. I think I would do that if I had no heart. I have no desire so sue someone. My hand was forced but I will gladly dismiss if he deletes.

Y3a · Jul 6, 2007, 11:10 AM

How and when does this guy get served his Subpoena? if he's out of state, you may be out of luck.

Also, this is why Evil-Bay sucks-like-a-shop-vac. They are either "Hands Off" and don't take sides, OR they ban folks without a real cause, and their investigators don't do poop!

Dakarʒ · Jul 6, 2007, 11:12 AM

The only reason they're hands off is because they don't want to pay staff to deal with problems.

That and if they get involved they might start being liable for bad members.

Y3a · Jul 6, 2007, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by bstone

I have very little feedback on ebay. This and one other bogus negative (which the guy JUST agreed to remove) were causing me a world of hurt. My approval was below 90% and people were not bidding on my auctions because of that. I was losing money.

How did you get the OTHER BAD FEEDBACK???

bstone · Jul 6, 2007, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Y3a

How and when does this guy get served his Subpoena? if he's out of state, you may be out of luck.

Also, this is why Evil-Bay sucks-like-a-shop-vac. They are either "Hands Off" and don't take sides, OR they ban folks without a real cause, and their investigators don't do poop!

The court is sending it Certified Mail with a Return Receipt. The Rules of Civil Procedure in MA allow for service in that way. As long as he signs it, he is considered served.

bstone · Jul 6, 2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Y3a

How did you get the OTHER BAD FEEDBACK???

One was from 1998 and I did screw up in that auction. I was a stupid teenager.

The other one was from a guy I bought a paintball gun from. He said it was new, never used, with the manufacture's tape on the box. I got it in a very used, old and tape cut by a sharp object condition. I complained and he left "buyer is a retard" on my feedback page. Cute, eh? He *just* agreed to remove this as I threatened to sue him for the same thing I did sue the other guy for.

torsoboy · Jul 6, 2007, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by bstone

As I don't often buy or sell on ebay this one piece of negative feedback (along with another bogus one which the guy JUST agreed to remove) has tanked my approval below 90%.

Originally Posted by bstone

I have very little feedback on ebay. This and one other bogus negative (which the guy JUST agreed to remove) were causing me a world of hurt. My approval was below 90% and people were not bidding on my auctions because of that. I was losing money.

So you *rarely ever* use eBay and you are claiming that this guy giving you bad feedback as a buyer (not as a seller) is making you lose money? I think you would have a very hard time proving this case to any judge. If you rarely ever use eBay just start a new account and be done with it. Sounds like you are making a big deal out of nothing.

Congrats anyway on becoming a part of our over litigious society!

bstone · Jul 6, 2007, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

So you *rarely ever* use eBay and you are claiming that this guy giving you bad feedback as a buyer (not as a seller) is making you lose money? I think you would have a very hard time proving this case to any judge. If you rarely ever use eBay just start a new account and be done with it. Sounds like you are making a big deal out of nothing.

Congrats anyway on becoming a part of our over litigious society!

Thanks for keeping your negative comments to yourself, like the very first line of the very first post in this thread asked.

I am getting a signed affidavit from a long time registered user on eBay (who has written extensively about eBay and is considered an expert) saying any feedback below 90% is less likely to get bids. Since I have been selling a few things on ebay late, but noticing I am not getting as competitive bids, I believe I found the source of the problem.

Kevin · Jul 6, 2007, 11:34 AM

*gasp* people being asked to take responsibilities for their actions? !

Never! Esp on ebay. I've only bought a few things on there, but I can't stand the deceivers and dishonest people that do things like that bstone.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

I hate people who "don't leave feedback until you do" meaning they will change their feedback depending on yours. It's not honest.

I wont leave any feedback first if I am the seller. That is to protect me. A lot of people will not ask enough questions about the product and get something they didn't want and blame the person selling.

For example I sold a guitar on there that was in good condition. I didn't say "like new" I just said "good shape" It had swirl marks (that could be rubbed out by elbow grease) in the finish (it was black) and he complained that he'd have never bought the guitar had he known that. Even though the pictures obviously showed this. The guitar wasn't a high end deal, and I was just trying to get rid of it out of my house. Anyhow, as soon as I received my payment I gave him a good rating etc. A HOUR later he leaves a rant in my info saying I was a dishonest seller that held information from the customer.

So I too wont make any feedback till feedback is made by me. And if they don't leave any cause they are waiting for me to leave them some first? Oh well. at least I wont have any negs.

It took me a year to get that neg to be less than 5% off my score. I didn't Ebay much.

Kevin · Jul 6, 2007, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by bstone

Thanks for keeping your negative comments to yourself, like the very first line of the very first post in this thread asked.

bstone I like you and think you are a swell guy. But you really can't post something about lawsuits and expect NO ONE to give any negative comments. It's just not the way human nature is. If you don't want any criticism at all, don't make any posts.

You obviously knew before posting this that you'd get them otherwise you'd have not made that "please don't"

I mean we would all like everyone to agree with our actions, but not everyone will. And we have to accept that, and tolerate it. Maybe even ignore some sometimes.

I am getting a signed affidavit from a long time registered user on eBay (who has written extensively about eBay and is considered an expert) saying any feedback below 90% is less likely to get bids. Since I have been selling a few things on ebay late, but noticing I am not getting as competitive bids, I believe I found the source of the problem.

This is a true thing. When I had a 95% average I had someone refuse to let me buy off them.

Dakarʒ · Jul 6, 2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

bstone I like you and think you are a swell guy. But you really can't post something about lawsuits and expect NO ONE to give any negative comments.

Bingo. Don't start a thread about it if you don't want to 'discuss' it.

bstone · Jul 6, 2007, 11:39 AM

Kevin, you're right. It was a half-hearted attempt.

Kevin · Jul 6, 2007, 01:14 PM

That being said, it would be nice to have a thread without any negativity.

Not that I am not guilty of adding such to threads myself.

SSharon · Jul 6, 2007, 01:24 PM

Thanks for keeping me employed bstone!
I asked someone at work what he thought about this and he laughed but acknowledged that it could work.

Don't drop the suit, make him pay costs. That's my advice.

bstone · Jul 6, 2007, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by SSharon

Thanks for keeping me employed bstone!
I asked someone at work what he thought about this and he laughed but acknowledged that it could work.

Don't drop the suit, make him pay costs. That's my advice.

Laughed at my genius, no doubt!

Dakarʒ · Jul 6, 2007, 01:33 PM

Definitely make him cover the $40.

Kerrigan · Jul 6, 2007, 01:34 PM

I sued Apple for dissin my click

Dork. · Jul 7, 2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Definitely make him cover the $40.

Why? If all he wants is the negative feedback removed, and the other party complies only after being served with a lawsuit, why should he push further? I think that would be being overly litigious. And if bstone is correct, getting the improper negative feedback removed will result in him making back the $40 and then some in his auctions.

I find no problem with what bstone is doing here, it's more in the spirit of what Small Claims court is like. It's a way to resolve small disputes without the expense of getting lawyers involved. It's a legal proceeding that even an average citizen can take advantage of at low expense!

Dakarʒ · Jul 7, 2007, 12:22 PM

Why should he pay $40 to have the negative feedback he didn't deserve removed?

bstone · Jul 7, 2007, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Why should he pay $40 to have the negative feedback he didn't deserve removed?

I guess this is what one might call a "settlement". I am willing to settle. If it were not for me filing a lawsuit against him then he would have continued to ignore my pleas to remove the defamatory negative feedback. The lawsuit got him thinking that the judge might not look so keen on him. I am not vindictive. I am not trying to come away with a free million dollars or whatever. I guess I am trying to be nice in the middle of all of all of this.

andi*pandi · Jul 7, 2007, 11:37 PM

aaaand... where do nice guys finish?

Dakarʒ · Jul 7, 2007, 11:38 PM

Last!