Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

lookmark · Oct 2, 2001, 03:06 AM

This thread is for people who made suggestions on Apple's feedback page that Apple (gasp!) appeared to have followed for 10.1.

Mine -- and I'm not *completely* sure that this only new to 10.1, but as I can't go back and check, what the heck, I'll go out on a limb:

Apple seems to be finally beginning to implement a global key command for cycling windows in an app.

It's command-~ (long the window cycling command in IE).

Give it a try -- it works in most of the (hmm, Cocoa?) little apps -- TextEdit, Terminal, Stickies, Preview... you name it.

Unfortunately, the Finder is still doing it's own thang with the wonky "Go to Folder" (read as: UNIX path name!) command.

And it's still completely incognito -- absent from the Window menu.

But what a delight to discover it!

I hope it sticks.

Anyone else have pet peeves at long last resolved?

look!mark

michaelb · Oct 2, 2001, 07:13 AM

I think you'll find this is implemented on an application-by-application basis, not system-wide. Although you could be right that Cocoa framework based apps have that property unless overridden.

(Cocoa apps are all really like different faces on the same program... So an addition to the framework means all the apps based on it get it for free.)

Personally, command-tilde for me has years of muscle memory behind it for bringing up a CodeWarrior header file, so I'd be annoyed if Apple gazumped it for their own use. Fine for them to put it in Cocoa though.

One shortcut I did provide feedback on: Command-D now does what it should in most do-you-want -to-save dialogs (ie, Don't Save), but I think they would have done it anyway.

So, that's like 1 out of 509 they still have to listen to me! Including my biggest annoyance at the moment:

LET ME READ COMPACTFLASH CARDS ON MY POWERBOOK!

Developer · Oct 2, 2001, 07:38 AM

Yeah, Apple is listening.

I told them I don't like TextEdit et al. to rely on the filename extension only to identify its files, and now they hide them for me

developer

sniffer · Oct 2, 2001, 08:03 AM

The ~ cycling windows key suck big time on my Norwegian keyboard! It is the standard cycling key in I.E. right? Never used it cus I have to push three keys at ones. :o
Think the OmniWeb "1" button is far better.

Franck · Oct 2, 2001, 08:37 AM

I agree sniffer,
I have to press too many keys at the same time on my french keyboard.

It sucks.

Xool · Oct 2, 2001, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by michaelb:
LET ME READ COMPACTFLASH CARDS ON MY POWERBOOK!

Preach on, Brother!

jayg · Oct 2, 2001, 09:22 PM

You are the man lookmark. That's the best "hidden tip" I've seen yet. I've been dieing for this functionality. I just tested it with a custom Cocoa app, and it was there, so it's definitely a standard part of Cocoa window management now. Sweet. It's even smart enough to ignore minimized windows. Now, if only they'd make it so that it cycles through windows in the order they are used instead of just linearly...

Still, things like this shows that there are people working on OS X that care about what they're doing. Features like this don't make good demos, but make real work way easier. This can only mean more good things are in store for X.

Try editing a few windows of code at once and you'll quickly appreciate features like this.

jayg · Oct 2, 2001, 09:24 PM

You are the man lookmark. That's the best "hidden tip" I've seen yet. I've been dieing for this functionality. I just tested it with a custom Cocoa app, and it was there, so it's definitely a standard part of Cocoa window management now. Sweet. It's even smart enough to ignore minimized windows. Now, if only they'd make it so that it cycles through windows in the order they are used instead of just linearly...

Still, things like this shows that there are people working on OS X that care about what they're doing. Features like this don't make good demos, but make real work way easier. This can only mean more good things are in store for X.

Try editing a few windows of code at once and you'll quickly appreciate features like this.

(And yes, command shift ` goes backwards. Of course this is a little hard to do which is why they should pop up a list of windows like in the great Program Switcher CP for 9).

jayg · Oct 2, 2001, 09:25 PM

(double post)

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: jayg ]

Ghoser777 · Oct 2, 2001, 09:34 PM

Actually, it was a triple post, but who's counting?

F-bacher

Oct 3, 2001, 01:52 AM

Apple did implement a suggestion I made to them regarding the label which appears when a removable media disk (or disc) or a network drive is dragged towards the trash - the label now reads "Eject" or "Disconnect," depending on the nature of the mounted item. Before, the label read simply "Trash" which could lead novice users to believe that dropping the disk on that icon would erase its contents. The trash icon (as you probably recall), did turn into the standard "Eject" icon, but it created a mixed message. That is one interface problem they DID fix. Cool.

On the down side, there seems to be a lack of standardization amongst the Finder, Address Book, and Mail in some interface areas. Particularly, the modifier keys used in conjunction with the toolbar disclosure widget do not act in a uniform manner. Holding shift while clicking the widget in the Finder summons the "Customize" pane, while this does not happen in any of Apple's other apps. Wacky. Furthermore, depressing command while clicking the widget in the Finder does not cycle through the three available toolbar display modes. This does work in Mail and Address Book (and OmniWeb, although it is obviously not Apple's responsibility). 10.2, perhaps.

-Membranophonist

lookmark · Oct 3, 2001, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by sniffer:
The ~ cycling windows key suck big time on my Norwegian keyboard! It is the standard cycling key in I.E. right? Never used it cus I have to push three keys at ones. :o
Think the OmniWeb "1" button is far better.

That sounds unfortunate. Which three keys? Where is the tilde (~) on your keyboard? And what's in the very top, left-hand corner (besides escape)?

Apple should definitely remap another key for non-U.S. keyboards. Three keys at once make it close to useless.

My problem with command-1 is that it's so close to command-Q that I've (countless, countless times!) reached to cycle and quit the app by accident. Especially in browsers (like Omniweb) which of course don't have any warning to save/don't save. Drives me crazy.

look!mark

lookmark · Oct 3, 2001, 10:26 AM

[dp]

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: lookmark ]

lookmark · Oct 3, 2001, 10:28 AM

[tp]

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: lookmark ]

lookmark · Oct 3, 2001, 10:28 AM

[qp]

(These forums are, ah, just little screwed up.)

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: lookmark ]

seb2 · Oct 3, 2001, 05:47 PM

just for the records, tilde is three keys at once on the german keyboard as well, so option-tilde makes four. i have never ever used that... lifting my right hand from my keyboard and using the mouse is easier.

they should definitively rethink that.

lookmark, for me, tilde is ctrl-alt-n. in the upper left corner i got "^", with shift "�"... yeah, need that every day

Rickster · Oct 3, 2001, 06:14 PM

The behavior of the toolbar widget is implemented by the Cocoa frameworks, which is why it's the same in OmniWeb, Mail, AirPort Admin Utility, Project Builder, et cetera. Ironically, I seem to remember a prerelease "Cheetah" seed in which the Finder's toolbar widget had the same modified-click behaviors as Cocoa's, but it got "screwed up" before the 10.0 release. Hopefully Apple will make things consistent again sometime soon; we're getting tired of user feedback blasting us for being different from Finder, when actually we're just "inheriting" a Cocoa standard behavior.

Thanks for pointing out the window cycling shortcut. I've removed our window cycling shortcuts from OmniWeb; however, if any enterprising MacHackers would prefer an easier-to-type shortcut, they can still edit OmniWeb.nib and hook up menu items to the cycleToNextMainWindow: and cycleToPreviousMainWindow: actions on the File's Owner icon.

juanvaldes · Oct 3, 2001, 06:51 PM

ONe things to remember is that the top priority of 10.1 was speed. While all of the interface bonuses are defiantly nice, now apple is in a position ot focus all of it's energies to enhancing the interface.

Oct 3, 2001, 08:56 PM

Thanks for the info, Rickster! I for one think it is the Finder that is broken, not OmniWeb (great job on it) and Mail et al. I'm glad Apple is aware of the issue.

Keep up the great work!

-Membranophonist

Richard Clark · Feb 1, 2002, 05:13 PM

10.1 caused problems with Cellview's MacRumba (AS400). The F12 key would eject the CD tray. But it wouldn't allow MacRumba to back out of menus. 10.1.2 fixed that!

Now if they can just make the windows remember the size, order and placement I put on them! It's a pain redoing them after restarts.

Amorya · Feb 1, 2002, 08:20 PM

Talking about keys inconveniently placed, I lose track of the number of times I've quit Omniweb by accident... I use a Dvorak keyboard, and the Q key is above Command like so:

(The hilighted one under the Q is command).

That's not Apple's fault, but I'd LOVE an are you sure box to appear on any app that'd lose changes... web browsers should be included as you could lose the page you were on, or form data, etc.

Amorya

chris v · Feb 2, 2002, 12:55 AM

So, IS there a way to cycle through Finder windows with the keyboard? I was trying to copy/paste some files between two hard drives last night, and it sure would have been handy...

CV

aladdinsane · Feb 2, 2002, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by sniffer:
The ~ cycling windows key suck big time on my Norwegian keyboard! It is the standard cycling key in I.E. right? Never used it cus I have to push three keys at ones. :o
Think the OmniWeb "1" button is far better.

Unfortunatelly, OmniWeb has switched to ~ in version 4.1

rgoer · Feb 2, 2002, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by lookmark:
And it's still completely incognito -- absent from the Window menu.

dude... the command is "Go to Folder" -- doesn't its location in the "Go" menu make sense to you?

timmerk · Feb 3, 2002, 09:29 AM

I don't remember if it was DP4 or te public beta, but one of those had the desktop folder in the library folder!! I told Apple to move it to the user's folder, and look, they listened!

lookmark · Feb 3, 2002, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by rgoer:


dude... the command is "Go to Folder" -- doesn't its location in the "Go" menu make sense to you?

Wasn't being too clear in that post. I meant the "Switch to next window" command -- aka command-tilde -- was incognito.

I've grown to like the "Go to Folder" command very much, esp. for the nifty way it brings up hidden files, but I still think that a global window switching command is a really important feature to implement. Now I'm waiting for that one blanked feature in "Full Keyboard Access" to unblank itself...