Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Chuckit · Feb 24, 2009, 11:10 PM

Oh, another "awesome feature" of the tabbed titlebar: All the tabs and their close boxes are clickable in the background just like the standard window widgets, so you practically can't click the window chrome at all without switching tabs, closing a tab, going back in your page history or something else fun and unexpected.

Mac User #001 · Feb 24, 2009, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Oh, another "awesome feature" of the tabbed titlebar: All the tabs and their close boxes are clickable in the background just like the standard window widgets, so you practically can't click the window chrome at all without switching tabs, closing a tab, going back in your page history or something else fun and unexpected.

I assume you mean when you have a ton of windows open and have really small title bars? That was a problem in Safari 3 as well and yeah, it sucks.

voodoo · Feb 24, 2009, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Oh.

That's wonderful. What in the **** possessed them to not only destroy the standard window layout by dumping the tabs in there (that will also dynamically resize depending on what you click - you'd think that even the last moron within Apple had got the memo about moving targets), but to use the same interface element that has meant "RESIZE THIS" for the past twenty-five years to now indicate that something can be MOVED!???

Jeezus ****in' H. Christ.

The UI design is most disappointing and ill-thought out. The design of tabs in Safari 4 is bad and it is amazing Apple would release this in this form.

It is very very bad.

Other than that, Safari 4 seems like a decent upgrade. Good thing they went with native UI on Windows. Bad they decided to go with silly interface on the Mac.

slugslugslug · Feb 24, 2009, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mac User #001

I assume you mean when you have a ton of windows open and have really small title bars? That was a problem in Safari 3 as well and yeah, it sucks.

Yeah, but in Safari 3 you have one big honkin' title bar that you can always grab if you want to, oh, I dunno, move your window. I agree with Chuckit about this problem being newly sucky.

Cold Warrior · Feb 24, 2009, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

Yeah, but in Safari 3 you have one big honkin' title bar that you can always grab if you want to, oh, I dunno, move your window. I agree with Chuckit about this problem being newly sucky.

In this beta you can still click and hold on a tab -- even an inactive one -- to drag a window around. Release and it still won't activate an inactive tab.

0157988944 · Feb 25, 2009, 12:18 AM

But why would you want to (or think to) drag a TAB around to move the WINDOW around? The interface can make sense after learning it but it's just plain unintuitive and stupid. It's not something I'd expect from what has long been the simplest and cleanest browser I've seen.

My thoughts, in sarcastic, published form:
http://www.appletell.com/apple/comme...ck-on-the-mac/

Don Pickett · Feb 25, 2009, 12:18 AM

Just realized I've lost CoolIris.

slugslugslug · Feb 25, 2009, 12:19 AM

Wait, huh? How do you do that without dragging the tab around? I thought the tabs were moveable (I haven't installed the beta on the machine I'm using right now). Or does a tab only move if you grab it by the corner? Sounds unintuitive either way.

0157988944 · Feb 25, 2009, 12:21 AM

Yes, tabs only move when dragged by the "window resize" icon in the corner of each tab.

0157988944 · Feb 25, 2009, 12:23 AM

File bug reports regarding the UI. Unless theres a way I'm unaware of I think that's the most direct way to tell them that they F*cked this up. (I bet more attention is paid than to the feedback form)

SeSawaya · Feb 25, 2009, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Just realized I've lost CoolIris.

Just launch it from your Applications, it will be back in Safari then.

Don Pickett · Feb 25, 2009, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SeSawaya

Just launch it from your Applications, it will be back in Safari then.

Bless you, my child.

Funny thing is, what was the bug button becomes to CoolIris button.

Chuckit · Feb 25, 2009, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Mac User #001

I assume you mean when you have a ton of windows open and have really small title bars? That was a problem in Safari 3 as well and yeah, it sucks.

I meant that if I'm in NetNewsWire and want to switch back to Safari, I wind up on a different page than I was on before I switched to NNW. Possibly with the tab I wanted now closed.

davecom · Feb 25, 2009, 02:52 AM

I'm very pleased, it really is much faster. Try a Reset Safari after you get it, that really seemed to improve the performance for me - probably for some random reason.

Spheric Harlot · Feb 25, 2009, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mac User #001

One word:

Goosefrabba

(Of course, my spelling may be off.)

What?

NeXTLoop · Feb 25, 2009, 03:54 AM

I personally love the new Tab Bar. Takes a little getting used to fore sure. But I like the fact that it takes up less space, and it isn't always shifting the web page I'm viewing depending on whether I have a tab open or not.

I do think it still needs to be improved a bit. But overall I think this is going in the right direction.

Chuckit · Feb 25, 2009, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by NeXTLoop

it isn't always shifting the web page I'm viewing depending on whether I have a tab open or not.

View->Show Tab Bar in Safari 3. (It's been around since Safari adopted tabs.)

angelmb · Feb 25, 2009, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Oisín

… assuming the error message has been properly translated.

(…)

When I switched to a user profile set up in English, it gave me the proper error message.

Same thing happens with spanish so I guess they think us are smarter…

Jokes aside, Safari 4 keeps trying to connect to…

I guess I can deny any connection to brandclik forever, right?, andy why does it just launched want to connect to there after all?

Chuckit · Feb 25, 2009, 04:36 AM

The message would suggest that it's trying to create a preview for the Top Sites listing, which it needs to see the page to do.

angelmb · Feb 25, 2009, 04:53 AM

Thanks, my Top Sites listing is anything but inaccurate after all.

angelmb · Feb 25, 2009, 04:59 AM

Found some tips here, included how to disable google suggest, URL autocomplete, top sites…

OreoCookie · Feb 25, 2009, 06:38 AM

Ok, got tired of the tabs on top and I've moved them back to where (I think) they belong. Now it looks much cleaner and if it costs me 10 pixels to do so, then so what?

I'm still very pleased about the speed-up

Simon · Feb 25, 2009, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I'm still very pleased about the speed-up

I'm somewhat surprised to read so much about a 'speed-up'. What is it that Safari 3 is really slow at? In my experience Safari 3 on a modern Mac is very fast (especially once you get rid of all the Flash ads). Is this only about older Macs?

torp · 08:41 AM

you practically can't click the window chrome at all without switching tabs, closing a tab, going back in your page history or something else fun and unexpected

I agree. Very annoying.

I like the smaller space for moving tabs. But I agree about the resemblance with the 'resize window' icon. Confusing.
The tabs on top may be more logical. I think I can get used to that.
I don't like the auto-sized tabs. I find myself searching for tabs again and again. I liked the old tabs better, you could remember their position.
I don't like the window buttons (red, yellow, green) to belong to the first tab. Also, the first 'close tab' icon seems to be for the whole window, instead for the most-left tab only.
I don't care about the removal of the 'snap back' icon.
I hate that the 'refresh' button was moved to the address bar. The old position was much easier to find.
I miss the progress bar.
I don't care about the removal of the 'snap back' icon.
I find it confusing that a new window is positioned exactly below the tabs. Neat but hard to discern from each other. Colors could be helpful but all I see is grey, grey, grey.

AppleGirl1990 · Feb 25, 2009, 08:47 AM

My Experience:
1. It's snappier!
2. Hate the new Tabs location (Apple, just give an option of where we want to see it)
3. Top Sites is fun for a 4 year old, but utterly useless for everyone else.
4. Reopen all Windows from last Session is a cool new feature.
5. Want my Progress Bar back!
6. Don't care enough to comment on other features.

Simon · Feb 25, 2009, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

2. Hate the new Tabs location (Apple, just give an option of where we want to see it)

They already did.
defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool NO

4. Reopen all Windows from last Session is a cool new feature.

Cool, yes. New, no. It already existed in Safari 3.

5. Want my Progress Bar back!

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4IncludeToolbarRedesign -bool NO
defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4LoadProgressStyle -bool NO

rickey939 · Feb 25, 2009, 09:14 AM

Why not hide/show tabs automatically? Like the Dock. When you want/need them, you simply mouse over the "tab" area and they show, when not needed, they collapse/hide auto-magically. It still allows the user to have tabs, while not taking up that extra 10 pixels of space on the web-page when not in use.

rickey939 · Feb 25, 2009, 09:20 AM

1Password now has a beta that is working just fine in Safari 4....that was fast!

fisherKing · Feb 25, 2009, 09:54 AM

the more i go back & forth, the more i prefer the older tab bar.
cmmnd-R has always been fine for me to reload pages, am okay with the new reload icon (since i never use it).
and my eye expects to see the blue progress bar, so i know something is happening; will get used to not seeing it.

meanwhile...does anyone know how to delete google searches from window in the address bar?

Mac User #001 · 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

My thoughts, in sarcastic, published form:
http://www.appletell.com/apple/comme...ck-on-the-mac/

1. This looks fine everywhere except for the first tab while you're not in it.
2. I have always found bookmarking to be pretty essential, but I get what you mean. Besides, a lot of people use Command + D I'm sure.
3. Ridiculous, yeah. Maybe its a part of Snow Leopard's new look though.
4. Also dumb.
5. I don't mind this.
6. I can't say for this... I hated the brushed metal of Tiger so got a new Leopard-like look a while back and its not quite right.
7. I won't have a problem with this, but I can see how new people would and how it just doesn't make too much sense.
8. Pretty dumb as well. I loved double-clicking to open a new tab.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I meant that if I'm in NetNewsWire and want to switch back to Safari, I wind up on a different page than I was on before I switched to NNW. Possibly with the tab I wanted now closed.

Oh. I get you now. Yeah I could see that being a pain. Hasn't happened to me as of yet; what about you?

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

What?

Sorry. It's from Anger Management. I'f you've seen it, you know the word. Lame attempt anyway, so...

Originally Posted by Simon

I'm somewhat surprised to read so much about a 'speed-up'. What is it that Safari 3 is really slow at? In my experience Safari 3 on a modern Mac is very fast (especially once you get rid of all the Flash ads). Is this only about older Macs?

I have an older Mac (my sigged one) so I'm noticing a large speed boost but I imagine that margin is much smaller on a newer Mac.

Originally Posted by rickey939

Why not hide/show tabs automatically? Like the Dock. When you want/need them, you simply mouse over the "tab" area and they show, when not needed, they collapse/hide auto-magically. It still allows the user to have tabs, while not taking up that extra 10 pixels of space on the web-page when not in use.

Oh please no...

Originally Posted by fisherKing

meanwhile...does anyone know how to delete google searches from window in the address bar?

I don't think anyone has said how to do that yet. I know, I want it back too.

DigitalEl · Feb 25, 2009, 10:28 AM

I just spent a lot of time carefully arranging my Top Sites and pinning them down. I didn't know that was lost when you closed the browser. Next time you launch S4, you get some of your pinned Top Sites, but the rest are just random sites from your history again? Wouldn't the whole point of pinning something down mean that you want it there 'til you tell your Mac otherwise?

Dakar V · Feb 25, 2009, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by OAW

You can get it back with the following Terminal commands:

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4IncludeToolbarRedesign -bool NO

This one reverts back to the old tool bar.

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4LoadProgressStyle -bool NO

This one uses the old Progress Bar indicator in the address field. If you say YES it uses a Pie Chart progress indicator where the favicon is instead.

There doesn't appear to be any way to get either of these indicators to appear with the redesigned Toolbar, hence, you have to disable that with the first preference setting.

OAW

Thanks, I think I'm going to use that.

Edit: Of course I can't get it to work.

TETENAL · Feb 25, 2009, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by DigitalEl

I just spent a lot of time carefully arranging my Top Sites and pinning them down. I didn't know that was lost when you closed the browser. Next time you launch S4, you get some of your pinned Top Sites, but the rest are just random sites from your history again? Wouldn't the whole point of pinning something down mean that you want it there 'til you tell your Mac otherwise?

Trashing ~/Library/Safari/TopSites.plist fixes this problem according to some other poster in this thread.

I think the point of Top Sites is that it automatically shows you what you are visiting most often, not to be a fancy looking bookmarks section. So I wouldn't pin down everything in there to allow the feature to make some suggestions.

kylef · Feb 25, 2009, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Thanks, I think I'm going to use that.

Edit: Of course I can't get it to work.

Worked for me. Did the first one, closed Safari, opened Safari, did the second one, closed and re-opened.

Originally Posted by mdc

http://safariadblock.sourceforge.net/

Thanks!

Noticed another bug - I can't open my downloads by double clicking on them - I need to right click > open. Anyone else got this? fyi, I have now migrated. Bookmarks across, Safari Adblock, pie chart loader and that's me.Also found this to disable Google suggest:

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4IncludeGoogleSuggest -bool NO
(http://swedishcampground.com/safari-...en-preferences)

I must be going blind - where is the "load previous tabs" options when you re-open Safari..

Spheric Harlot · Feb 25, 2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

3. Top Sites is fun for a 4 year old, but utterly useless for everyone else.

Thanks...jerk.

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

4. Reopen all Windows from last Session is a cool new feature.

"New" on a geological scale.

It's been around since at least Safari 3.0.

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

5. Want my Progress Bar back!

Agreed.

OreoCookie · Feb 25, 2009, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

I'm somewhat surprised to read so much about a 'speed-up'. What is it that Safari 3 is really slow at? In my experience Safari 3 on a modern Mac is very fast (especially once you get rid of all the Flash ads). Is this only about older Macs?

Well, even though I use WebKit nightlies, I `felt' a difference. Perhaps it was only the UI which got more responsive. Don't know.

BTW, I've completely missed the `re-open last session' feature up to now!

Dakar V · Feb 25, 2009, 12:14 PM

Personally, I haven't noticed a difference in speed.

fisherKing · 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Personally, I haven't noticed a difference in speed.

seems about the same here (2.4g alu macbook); maybe i should take my 12" powerbook back from my GF, so i can appreciate a speed increase...

i don't get top sites, or coverflow in safari...seems silly, eye candy (but i'm overly-organized to begin with).
now if i could just delete my google searches...

edit: clever remark notwithstanding...just reset safari, and it IS opening tabs faster...

Chuckit · Feb 25, 2009, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mac User #001

Oh. I get you now. Yeah I could see that being a pain. Hasn't happened to me as of yet; what about you?

Yep, that's how I noticed. The first time I wound up in a different tab than I thought I was on and got a little bit discombobulated, and the second time I accidentally closed the tab I wanted and it finally clicked in my mind what I was doing wrong.

IronPen · Feb 25, 2009, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by kylef

... But I am liking it, a lot more space compared to even my customized firefox! Lack of an adblock is annoying - does one exist?

<-- potential migrator

Yes. You can use a style sheet to block ads. One of the more popular ones is available at http://www.floppymoose.com/. Just download the file. Then from Safari select the Safari app menu >> Preferences then Advanced and select the Style sheet drop-down and locate the CSS file. Maybe it isn't as slick or intuitive as other ad-block tools (for instance, you can't just click the ad and choose to block it). But it is light-weight and requires no extra plug-ins that will bog down or break Safari. If you prefer other more user-friendly implementations, try GIMS or PithHelmet.

CSS isn't difficult to learn. I think it is fun. You can Google for more on CSS, or just visit http://www.w3schools.com/ They have great tutorials and examples to help you learn.

Rlinsurf · Feb 25, 2009, 01:02 PM

Have you guys noticed there's no Stop/Reload page button anymore? What browser doesn't allow you to stop or reload a page except by a menu command?

TETENAL · Feb 25, 2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Rlinsurf

Have you guys noticed there's no Stop/Reload page button anymore?

We haven't, cause it's still there.

Rlinsurf · Feb 25, 2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

We haven't, cause it's still there.

Heh. Yeh, I just noticed that.

Well... except, that isn't a stop button, just reload. Or am I missing it again.

wr11 · Feb 25, 2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Rlinsurf

Heh. Yeh, I just noticed that.

Well... except, that isn't a stop button, just reload. Or am I missing it again.

When you're loading a page and hover over the reload it'll change to an X to "stop" loading. I'm not sure this is a really great idea. Switchers will have all sorts of fun trying to find all the hidden features I guess. I'm all for options though - more preferences the better.

kylef · Feb 25, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by IronPen

Yes. You can use a style sheet to block ads. One of the more popular ones is available at http://www.floppymoose.com/. Just download the file. Then from Safari select the Safari app menu >> Preferences then Advanced and select the Style sheet drop-down and locate the CSS file. Maybe it isn't as slick or intuitive as other ad-block tools (for instance, you can't just click the ad and choose to block it). But it is light-weight and requires no extra plug-ins that will bog down or break Safari. If you prefer other more user-friendly implementations, try GIMS or PithHelmet.

CSS isn't difficult to learn. I think it is fun. You can Google for more on CSS, or just visit http://www.w3schools.com/ They have great tutorials and examples to help you learn.

Appreciate the post - but someone already posted a link to a rather cheeky-easy solution (Safari Adblock). With regards to CSS ... well I've been touch and go on all forms of web language (alright HTML and basic CSS is my limit) but really should dive into one.

Thanks for the post, nonetheless.

Rlinsurf · Feb 25, 2009, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by wr11

When you're loading a page and hover over the reload it'll change to an X to "stop" loading. I'm not sure this is a really great idea. Switchers will have all sorts of fun trying to find all the hidden features I guess. I'm all for options though - more preferences the better.

Err...I tried reloading this page and hovering. The X arrived for less than a sec. Really useful IMO.

Spheric Harlot · Feb 25, 2009, 01:54 PM

Considering that reloading only took about two seconds, a dedicated button marked "x" would have made exactly as much sense.

IronPen · Feb 25, 2009, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by kylef

Appreciate the post - but someone already posted a link to a rather cheeky-easy solution (Safari Adblock). [snip]

Thanks for the post, nonetheless.

No problem. I looked for a reply, but I guess I missed it. Glad you got help with your question.

IronPen · Feb 25, 2009, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by wr11

When you're loading a page and hover over the reload it'll change to an X to "stop" loading. I'm not sure this is a really great idea. Switchers will have all sorts of fun trying to find all the hidden features I guess. I'm all for options though - more preferences the better.

This is a usability design flaw. But, to their credit, if you're used to Safari, the Reload/Stop Load button have been one button since the beginning.

As for the "more preferences the better" comment, I completely disagree. Other browsers and products strive to cater to everyone and throw in a ton of features, hoping that they can throw in everything anyone will ever need. The problem is that the program loses its usefulness because there are too many things getting in the way. Look at iCab or Opera and you'll see preferences run amok.

freudling · Feb 25, 2009, 02:45 PM

I see some complaints on here, which is common for people to do after using something "new" for only a short period of time. Personally, I would never go back to Safari 3, there is no turning back. This is a major upgrade and a welcome one, I love it. The new tabs, the top sites, cover flow in history/bookmarks, and it is way faster. I got so tired of the old Safari crashing, spinning beachballs, getting bogged down on java/flash heavy pages. No longer an issue now.