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US Community Colleges
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Doofy
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Oct 12, 2009, 11:17 AM
 
Can someone explain to old Doof what these are there for?

At a guess, for poor folks who want further education but aren't quite capable of that scholarship to a proper college?

Do a lot of folks at community college then go on to university proper?

What's the score here?

Thanks chaps.
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SpaceMonkey
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Oct 12, 2009, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
At a guess, for poor folks who want further education but aren't quite capable of that scholarship to a proper college?
More or less. They usually offer 2 year "associates" degrees. They also attract people who want to start a second career through certain professional degree programs, like nursing.

Do a lot of folks at community college then go on to university proper?
Yes, often someone who had low grades in secondary school will go to a 2-year community college program, show they can handle the work, and then transfer to a 4-year institution.

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Doofy  (op)
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Oct 12, 2009, 12:03 PM
 
Cheers.
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olePigeon
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Oct 12, 2009, 12:23 PM
 
They're growing in popularity given the current economy. You can save yourself tens of thousands of dollars in tuition simply by starting off at a community college, then transfer to the University. Many community colleges have a transfer program with specific universities. For example, here in San Jose we have San Jose City College, Mission College, Evergreen College, etc. All of them have specialized programs specifically built for transferring into San Jose State, UC Santa Cruz, UC Berkeley, and Stanford.

They're also a great source of vocational education as well and often cheaper than Devry or related vocational schools.
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Oct 12, 2009, 12:51 PM
 
Sort of on topic, Wife and I are enjoying Community.
     
EndlessMac
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Oct 12, 2009, 01:10 PM
 
It's sometimes called Jr College and olePigeon has it right. A person can save a lot of money by going to a community college first and then transfer over to the college/university of their choice. It allows a person to take all their general education classes and then take only their degree major classes at their university of choice. Once you graduate no one will know you went to a community college first.

General education classes like math, english, etc are pretty much the same anywhere you take them so it really is a waste of money taking it an expensive university. Actually some Jr colleges are harder than universities because they have to be that way so they are accepted by all universities.

The other thing Jr colleges do is they give a person the choice to get an associates degree. They are considered less than a university degree but it's a degree nonetheless which is better than nothing. Some careers require no more than an associates degree anyway so it's a quicker and cheaper choice. These are great for people trying to go back to school and switch careers and can't afford to go back to a university or for people who like continuing their education at a reasonable price. They are also great for people who never attended college in the first place and want to years later when their kids have grown and moved out.
     
SSharon
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Oct 12, 2009, 10:13 PM
 
I took a few classes during the summer at my local community college. They ended up saving me a semester worth of tuition at the university I went to.
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imitchellg5
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Oct 12, 2009, 10:31 PM
 
Here, community college has some courses that University don't offer.
     
phantomdragonz
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Oct 12, 2009, 10:46 PM
 
I am one of those transfer students...

personally I have had a MUCH better experience at the "real" college, (which is does not even offer masters, so not really on the full college level) but I will be getting my bachelors degree...

the quality of the other students is what really stood out to me, in CC the students treat it a lot like highschool, and where I am now it's much more of what i would expect, people there to learn and better themselves.

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ort888
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Oct 12, 2009, 11:29 PM
 
It's also easier to go part time. I took a bunch of classes at a community college when I was younger... you can just take whatever you want. I wanted to take some classes on graphic design and I did. I just did it to learn, not to try and earn any sort of degree.

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nonhuman
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Oct 12, 2009, 11:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by phantomdragonz View Post
(which is does not even offer masters, so not really on the full college level)
Uh, what? A masters degree is a graduate degree. Colleges (in the US) offer bachelors (undergrad) degrees, universities offer masters degrees and doctorates.
     
phantomdragonz
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Oct 13, 2009, 12:10 AM
 
I guess my understanding of the differences between a college and university is limited... I had always used them interchangeably...

Guess I never realized there was a difference...

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EndlessMac
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Oct 13, 2009, 01:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by phantomdragonz View Post
the quality of the other students is what really stood out to me, in CC the students treat it a lot like highschool, and where I am now it's much more of what i would expect, people there to learn and better themselves.
It depends on the community college in your area because the one in my area has a high percentage of older students so they are definitely more into school and are more mature about being serious about school. I do agree with you when some of the classes has younger students, but that was a problem too when there were a lot of freshman in university classes.

A person does miss out on the full college experience if they go to a community college. There is no dormitory life and most students commute in and don't really "live" on campus.
     
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Oct 13, 2009, 07:41 AM
 
Community colleges fit in between secondary school and universities. They often focus on vocational degrees, including nursing and other health care disciplines, various IT disciplines, higher end trades, and the like. I've attended a total of 5 different community colleges, and they offer something beyond a different mix of courses; less "this is a university and you must comport yourself thusly" attitude. Which of course seems to be much more common at universities with large populations of frat idiots and generally alcohol-infused freshmen who barf in the commons and disrupt classes where actually involved students are trying to learn.

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turtle777
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Oct 13, 2009, 11:19 AM
 
Like others said, community colleges are what apprenticeship programs are in Germany: vocational schools, more suited towards hands-on skills and job training.

-t
     
ThinkInsane
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Oct 13, 2009, 03:57 PM
 
I'm assuming that community colleges differ from state to state, as a lot of what I'm reading isn't how they are run here in New York. All community colleges in this state are overseen by SUNY and are fully accredited. Although most do offer vocational programs (construction trades and the like) with an associate degree, they also offer traditional degree programs that are fully transferrable if you want to pursue a bachelors degree. Many now have dorms and differ little from traditional college campuses.

Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Uh, what? A masters degree is a graduate degree. Colleges (in the US) offer bachelors (undergrad) degrees, universities offer masters degrees and doctorates.
My alma mater is a college, but they offer graduate programs as well. I don't know that the college/university distinction is as ironclad as it used to be.
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 13, 2009, 03:58 PM
 
Ditto, my college offered a few masters.
     
olePigeon
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Oct 13, 2009, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by EndlessMac View Post
A person does miss out on the full college experience if they go to a community college. There is no dormitory life and most students commute in and don't really "live" on campus.
My community college had dorms and everything.
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EndlessMac
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Oct 13, 2009, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
My community college had dorms and everything.
I guess what ThinkInsane said about it being different from state to state is true. The ones in my area are pretty much the way I described.
     
nonhuman
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Oct 13, 2009, 05:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by ThinkInsane View Post
My alma mater is a college, but they offer graduate programs as well. I don't know that the college/university distinction is as ironclad as it used to be.
It's certainly not an iron-clad rule, but to say that an institution isn't a College because they don't have a Masters program is simply false. There are quite a few very good colleges out there that don't offer graduate degrees.
     
ghporter
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Oct 13, 2009, 09:54 PM
 
Think, EVERY community college I've attended has been fully accredited and confers associate degrees, along with certificates and non certificate diplomas. Note that there are a ton of RNs around with AS degrees-and that in some locales the associate-prepared RN candidates pass the board test at higher (sometimes MUCH higher) rates than BS prepared candidates. At least one community college here in San Antonio is working on getting permission to confer a BS in at least one discipline.

I liked getting my basics and prerequisites done in community colleges because of the smaller class sizes and the lack of the "non-academic" stuff that goes with universities. No frats, no rush week, no focus on football instead of school work, etc. On that note, many of the 5 universities I've attended either didn't bother with that stuff either or I attended an extension campus that didn't bother with it.

So what is a "full college experience?" Living on one's own while going to school? Or is it living with idiots spending mom and dad's money while ditching every class so they can sleep off last night in preparation for tonight? I'd like to see how others balance these two sides.

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Doofy  (op)
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Oct 13, 2009, 10:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
So what is a "full college experience?"
You won't get that until you've failed a whole class for being crap. Heh.
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Oct 14, 2009, 05:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
So what is a "full college experience?"
Debt.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 14, 2009, 09:15 AM
 
zing.
     
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Oct 14, 2009, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Debt.
massive debt.
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olePigeon
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Oct 14, 2009, 02:37 PM
 
Edit: Wrong thread.
( Last edited by olePigeon; Oct 15, 2009 at 11:28 AM. )
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ghporter
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Oct 14, 2009, 09:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Debt.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
zing.
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
massive debt.
Then I guess I missed out. A total of 5 degrees, and I had one $4000 student loan for all of it. I had tuition assistance from the Air Force while on active duty, but I went to a LOT of classes on my own dime. At community colleges. Of course the MS came courtesy of the VA, but I could argue that I'd paid for that too, just not with dollars...

One major draw for community colleges is that they aren't trying to finance their particle accelerators with fees and fees on the fees on top of stupidly high per-semester hour tuition; instead their tuition rates are very reasonable and their fees are VERY reasonable. And they generally don't have particle colliders because instead of "prestige" rankings and such most community colleges compete in terms of "passed certification test" rates and "obtained state license" statistics.

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Oct 14, 2009, 09:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
It's certainly not an iron-clad rule, but to say that an institution isn't a College because they don't have a Masters program is simply false. There are quite a few very good colleges out there that don't offer graduate degrees.
Right on. I think "University" is reserved for schools with more than one college in-house (college of bidness, college of edukation, etc.)

As for Community Colleges, they are good with professional programs (nursing, PT) and technical programs (HVAC, Auto mechanic) but they generally suck at the college prep thing. Not always (we had one in my hometown that had more PhDs and working professionals than the major regional university in town).

But having taught at two different CCs, and taught students from a dozen different CCs in their last two (or three or five) years at the junior & senior level, I can hardly imagine how poor the work ethic and drive must be at a lot of community colleges. Wow -- we get the "cream of the crop" and have trouble with them.

On the other hand, for the past 20 years I've noticed that the most professional & grown up students usually come from the CC system. The weakest ones too though (the ones that think that the whole thing is high school plus). It has its advantages money-wise, but I'm not sure students are always learning what they need to (or learning how to learn).

I know some wonderful, dedicated CC instructors, and they sure ain't in it for the pay! On the other hand, I've seen some folks who rolled in to tell war stories twice a week. Highly variable, even with "accreditation." Just like at "real" colleges.

Sometimes, things can be too cheap. Education in the US is for the most part too cheap -- we see people taking it for granted all the time.
     
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Oct 14, 2009, 10:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by finboy View Post
Sometimes, things can be too cheap. Education in the US is for the most part too cheap -- we see people taking it for granted all the time.
Can you elaborate ?

I actually disagree with that statement. Education expenses have risen at a much higher rate than CIP for the past decades. I have read numbers like twice as much, but I can't find a source right now.

The common explanation is that all the cheap loans for education (which, by now, is 85% government backed loans) caused the prices to rise at a higher rate.

I read on how different colleges and universities spent their $$$ in the past years, a lot of waste there, just to spend all the overabundance of money.
It's like the housing market - driven to high prices due to too much supply of money.

-t
     
SpaceMonkey
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Oct 14, 2009, 11:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
You could always cast colloportus on the washing machine door.
Err...was this at Hogwarts State or part of a Maytag repair correspondence course?

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olePigeon
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Oct 15, 2009, 11:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Err...was this at Hogwarts State or part of a Maytag repair correspondence course?
I had multiple tabs open and I meant to respond to the Haunted Washing Machine thread.
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Oct 15, 2009, 12:15 PM
 
I am what they term an "adult learner" at the local community college. I have been attending classes for about a year and in that time I've taken a fairly diverse range of classes (sciences, arts, maths, communication). My experience, while not horrible, has really opened my eyes to education and its failures. At first I thought this was just a community college observance but I have learned from having discussions with friends who teach at universities that it's across the board.

- The young kids seem pretty uneducated and have a "no fair!" attitude. I'm guessing that they are just a product of public schools that aren't challenging (everyone gets an 'A' just because they tried) and a coddling parental treatment.

- The teachers (instructors, professors), by and large, could really give a rat's ass. About anything. I've taken it upon myself in every class to give instruction and help to those that are struggling. Which leads me to my next point -

- The curriculum is laughable. I should not be doing learning things at a college level that are below what I was doing 20 years ago in high school. I gets A's without even trying nowadays and since the instructors are too busy on Facebook during class, I help out the kids that are having problems. I usually receive thanks from the instructor for lending a hand and I usually retort with a snarky response which they can't seem to understand.

I didn't go to college after high school because at that time, I thought it was a waste of time and money. I succeeded by applying myself into the tech world and have reaped the benefits. But, I'm pretty much done working in the tech world and am now gaining credits because, hell -- I can't even work at Enterprise Rent-A-Car without a Bachelor's Degree.

I still think that higher education is a sham and a waste of money and is not necessary for 90% of the people that attend. Unfortunately, you have to play the system to be employed nowadays. Have to make those HR reps think that their college education was worth something.
     
olePigeon
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Oct 15, 2009, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by screamingFit View Post
- The young kids seem pretty uneducated and have a "no fair!" attitude. I'm guessing that they are just a product of public schools that aren't challenging (everyone gets an 'A' just because they tried) and a coddling parental treatment.
That isn't because of the teachers, it's because of the school board. Teachers are just as pissed off about "no fail" policies. No one is going to learn if they don't have setbacks. All that happens is that the student learns they can't fail no matter what, so they don't try.

Originally Posted by screamingFit View Post
- The teachers (instructors, professors), by and large, could really give a rat's ass. About anything. I've taken it upon myself in every class to give instruction and help to those that are struggling. Which leads me to my next point -
I've found that the professors are passionate about what they do, but they aren't going to go out of their way to indulge the students. Students, by the time they get to college, are adults. They need to be treated as such. There is no coddling. That's why there are study groups. I think quite a few of the more seasoned professors are disenchanted with the current student base precisely because they come from the "not fair" generation.

Originally Posted by screamingFit View Post
- The curriculum is laughable. I should not be doing learning things at a college level that are below what I was doing 20 years ago in high school. I gets A's without even trying nowadays and since the instructors are too busy on Facebook during class, I help out the kids that are having problems. I usually receive thanks from the instructor for lending a hand and I usually retort with a snarky response which they can't seem to understand.
Again, not the fault of the Professor, but of the College Board (or University.) It is an ongoing argument about whether or not remedial courses should be taught in college. You're right, it's laughable. After graduating high school, I get to college and retake all the courses I just did in high school. Why not just make all colleges and universities 2 year schools and extend high school to "13th and 14th" grade. Save people a ton of money.

Originally Posted by screamingFit View Post
I still think that higher education is a sham and a waste of money and is not necessary for 90% of the people that attend. Unfortunately, you have to play the system to be employed nowadays. Have to make those HR reps think that their college education was worth something.
I agree that college is not for everyone. The problem is the devaluing of vocational/trade schools. In the 40s, 50s, and 60s, trade schools were just as important as universities. No one thought less of you for going into a trade school versus a university, trade schools are where you go to become an expert at your trade. There's been a shift in criteria for jobs, less emphasis on experience and more on education.

It used to be that you got a Master's Degree only if you planned on teaching in that field. Bachelor's Degree if you were taking a leadership role. Why do I need a Bachelor's Degree to set up an Exchange Server?

It's ridiculous.
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ghporter
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Oct 15, 2009, 12:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by screamingFit View Post
I am what they term an "adult learner" at the local community college. I have been attending classes for about a year and in that time I've taken a fairly diverse range of classes (sciences, arts, maths, communication). My experience, while not horrible, has really opened my eyes to education and its failures. At first I thought this was just a community college observance but I have learned from having discussions with friends who teach at universities that it's across the board.

- The young kids seem pretty uneducated and have a "no fair!" attitude. I'm guessing that they are just a product of public schools that aren't challenging (everyone gets an 'A' just because they tried) and a coddling parental treatment.

- The teachers (instructors, professors), by and large, could really give a rat's ass. About anything. I've taken it upon myself in every class to give instruction and help to those that are struggling. Which leads me to my next point -

- The curriculum is laughable. I should not be doing learning things at a college level that are below what I was doing 20 years ago in high school. I gets A's without even trying nowadays and since the instructors are too busy on Facebook during class, I help out the kids that are having problems. I usually receive thanks from the instructor for lending a hand and I usually retort with a snarky response which they can't seem to understand.

I didn't go to college after high school because at that time, I thought it was a waste of time and money. I succeeded by applying myself into the tech world and have reaped the benefits. But, I'm pretty much done working in the tech world and am now gaining credits because, hell -- I can't even work at Enterprise Rent-A-Car without a Bachelor's Degree.

I still think that higher education is a sham and a waste of money and is not necessary for 90% of the people that attend. Unfortunately, you have to play the system to be employed nowadays. Have to make those HR reps think that their college education was worth something.
Which school do you go to? There are a number of community colleges in Southern Michigan, and Wayne State is in many ways "community college-like" because of all the small campuses they have all over the place. But what you are describing is simply unacceptable from any school.

I've had ONE class where what you describe was in play-it was "medical terminology," a prerequisite for a health care program, and it was taught by someone who, though it was her first language, was not fully fluent in English. Somehow she convinced the school that she was acceptable faculty, though she was about as unprofessional as possible (spandex, reallly! spandex pants on a booty that is bigger than mine!) and provided probably fewer hours of instruction than was technically required for her students to receive credit for the course. Oh yes, I did indeed reflect this in my course evaluation, and lo and behold she's not there anymore. In other words, you gotta tell the school what's happening, because faculty is faculty and the administration usually has no requirement to spot check their work.

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Oct 15, 2009, 02:20 PM
 
I attend Oakland Community College.

Granted, there's been a couple of faculty that were truly into what they were teaching and I found inspiring. I could, though, feel their seething with a classroom full of students who were quite apathetic. I can only assume that you can only take so much of that attitude until you fall into a "don't care" approach.

I have made reports and evaluations on faculty who I thought were sub-par. In a couple of follow-ups, I was told that they couldn't do much since I was the only person to complain. I'm paying out of pocket, and granted it's only a few hundred dollars a class, but still - I have a right to have some dictation in my education.

I also agree with Pigeon - the trades are seemingly no longer important as those jobs have all been shipped overseas along with blue-collar factory work. It seems to be that there are really no jobs where you can make a living any more that aren't information management or medical - some people just aren't cut out for those types of jobs. Shipping them into the educational system isn't the answer.

And usually most people that have CS BS degrees can't setup an Exchange Server ;P
     
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Oct 15, 2009, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by screamingFit View Post
And usually most people that have CS BS degrees can't setup an Exchange Server ;P
Give that it didn't take a degree to start M$, Bill Gates shouldn't require one to set up the software...

-t
     
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Oct 15, 2009, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Give that it didn't take a degree to start M$, Bill Gates shouldn't require one to set up the software...

-t
But you'll often see job postings for network admins that require a CS or IT degree, so the degree itself is pretty meaningless. On the other hand, my son's community college work got him A+ certification AND significant experience setting up and managing servers, which has been invaluable in his tech support job. He got the basic skills he needed for this job simply by paying attention to "vocational" courses he took.

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Oct 16, 2009, 04:59 AM
 
All a degree does (in most cases) is show a potential employer than you can learn to a high level.

Funny that screamingFit mentions that you couldn't get even job X without a degree. I always thought that the US was less tied to educational acheivements (that experience is what counted) than Europe. I think that HR depts have gained far too much power in companies. Sh1te degree? Why not go into HR?
     
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Oct 16, 2009, 08:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
All a degree does (in most cases) is show a potential employer than you can learn to a high level.

Funny that screamingFit mentions that you couldn't get even job X without a degree. I always thought that the US was less tied to educational acheivements (that experience is what counted) than Europe. I think that HR depts have gained far too much power in companies. Sh1te degree? Why not go into HR?
A lot of US employers have become lazy enough to use a degree as a screening tool. It takes work to evaluate a person's experience and training without having that sheepskin sitting there, saying "this person put in the time and (maybe) effort" to earn a degree.

I still think any technical degree should prepare a person for entry level tasks in the degree's subject area. A current-day CS degree holder should be able to at least set up a basic server. When I got MY CS degree (in 1995), I was qualified to be a member of a programming team, and could use the appropriate documentation to guide me in setting up just about any system.

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SpaceMonkey
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Oct 16, 2009, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
A lot of US employers have become lazy enough to use a degree as a screening tool. It takes work to evaluate a person's experience and training without having that sheepskin sitting there, saying "this person put in the time and (maybe) effort" to earn a degree.
I disagree that it's laziness. The reality is that with the volume of applicants most companies see for every position announced, they need a few easy, objective ways to immediately discard half of them just to be able to spend the time to further consider the rest.

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Doofy  (op)
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Oct 16, 2009, 09:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
A lot of US employers have become lazy enough to use a degree as a screening tool. It takes work to evaluate a person's experience and training without having that sheepskin sitting there, saying "this person put in the time and (maybe) effort" to earn a degree.
Not meaning to go down the political path here, but a similar situation is happening here. And I don't think it's to do with employers being lazy. Our lovely leaders need to be seen to be doing something positive in order to get the vote next time around, thus they attempt to build "education" in the population - looks better if they say something like "before we got into power, only 40% of the population had degrees. Now we've been in power, 48% have got them. Aren't we good? Vote for us again and we'll make it 54%! Rarrr!"

And this obviously creates a problem for the employers because they can no longer differentiate between the cream of the crop and the average. "A" levels used to be hard work here - now my cat could pass one (he actually knows about litter tray counterbalance so he's not stupid). Trust me - it's no fun at all having to wade through a zillion job applications all with an identical level of education. I had to start looking at other stuff, like "oh, this guy's a body builder who competes at national level so he must have dedication to whatever he's doing" and "oh, this guy is proud of remodelling his kitchen so he must be a bit... ummm... average".

Problem started here back in the early 90's when I was still in the system. Got the dictate from above that no student could be failed for anything ever, no matter how crap they are. Turns out that the government had instituted a new method of funding education - establishment got paid for every student who passes the qualification, rather than for every student who enrols. I've seen some recent degree dissertations in my field and they're utter junk - I could write 'em in a couple of hours off the top of my head. Yet the student passes.

Frustrating.
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Oct 16, 2009, 09:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
I've found that the professors are passionate about what they do, but they aren't going to go out of their way to indulge the students. Students, by the time they get to college, are adults. They need to be treated as such. There is no coddling. That's why there are study groups. I think quite a few of the more seasoned professors are disenchanted with the current student base precisely because they come from the "not fair" generation.
I'm a college professor, and have been teaching at this level since '89. Things are tough all over, but many of our students (including masters students) are NOT adults -- I wish they were. Adults know how to study, how to communicate, adults actually do those things and come to class, and ask questions, and take an active role in their education.

I've had lots of students who WERE adults, some at a very young age. They do really well no matter where they start out. But we (the industry I mean) are NOT expected to hold people accountable, in fact we're often encouraged to just pass everyone.

I cannot look at myself in the mirror without honoring the mission, and the mission is to help people improve themselves. If they don't learn anything, they can't improve their position, regardless of anything else. Sometimes learning is of a very basic nature (how to study, how to read & absorb, how to write effectively, etc.).

It all comes back to cost: if you're actually missing something to come to school (say, work, or playing with your kids) and you recognize a cost of doing school, other than just a nuisance, then you'll be professional about it and try to learn something. Education in America is too cheap.

If people give a sh*t and apply themselves at a CC, they can learn. If they don't, they usually won't be made to. That's the problem with the system -- and the credibility of the system reflects this. It's getting to the point where any piece of paper is just that, a piece of paper.

Notice how many "professional certifications" there are now. Heck, my secretary (such as she is) has more letters after her name than I do. The fact that we're now taking exams and getting certificates for everything should show you how far the traditional education has fallen.

And online is poisoning things too. Schools have to decide what's expendable -- which courses can be "taught" online and cheated through by the students, for the most part. That dilutes things even more.

The pendulum always swings back in the other direction. Several states have implemented accountability measures at the college level, and I don't see that weakening. Things will get better. I have mostly great students, and I work for them and not the losers, who have ALWAYS been there, at every level.
     
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Oct 16, 2009, 09:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
I disagree that it's laziness. The reality is that with the volume of applicants most companies see for every position announced, they need a few easy, objective ways to immediately discard half of them just to be able to spend the time to further consider the rest.
They're fighting the last war: using degrees to screen worked well for a long time, especially for entry level. The degree-earning process was called "certification" and it only works when the certification is costly.

The general model is called a "lemons problem." It won a Nobel prize in Econ a few years ago. There are too many applicants, and only applicants know their true worth. We can't believe applicants b/c they have an incentive to lie. The only thing that fixes the problem (cures the information asymmetry) is for some external party to pledge their reputation on behalf of the applicant. If that reputation wasn't earned, or the reputation is meaningless, then certification won't work, and nobody (ultimately) gets hired. It must cost something to earn that certification (from a school, say) or it won't work to fix things.
( Last edited by finboy; Oct 16, 2009 at 10:00 AM. )
     
Laminar
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Oct 16, 2009, 09:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Problem started here back in the early 90's when I was still in the system.


I AIN'T GONNA BE PART OF YOUR SYSTEM.
     
Doofy  (op)
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Oct 16, 2009, 10:02 AM
 
Brian, will you just fu<k off? Haven't you got a wife you should be servicing or something?
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Oct 16, 2009, 10:03 AM
 
I think they frown on that sort of thing in Iowa.

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Oct 16, 2009, 10:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
I think they frown on that sort of thing in Iowa.
According to some of his latest posts, he's never in Iowa.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 16, 2009, 10:27 AM
 
Or his wife.
     
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Oct 16, 2009, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Or his wife.
     
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Oct 16, 2009, 10:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Or his wife.
     
 
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