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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > I'm seriously contemplating going back to OS9

I'm seriously contemplating going back to OS9 (Page 2)
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besson3c
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Dec 20, 2002, 04:23 PM
 
dude.. I'm with you on the switch back to OS 9 fulltime.

I'm a photoretoucher/designer and OS X sucks A$$ for doing our kind of work. Bottom line________ I don't care if you got the dual 1.25mhz G4s.... it still won't perform as fast as OS 9 for quark, photoshop, and Illustrator type of work.

I can blaze thru my work under OS 9... under OS X... it's like squeezing maple syrup out of a frozen jar. It looks pretty.... tastes great but falls short on timely satisfaction.
OS X is for peeps who only do home/kid stuff... like surfing, music, or just general fiddling around.

My 1st Generation G4 400 runs smoother, faster, and is just as stable as OSX.
I can work under OS 9 for weeks without even restarting the damn thing.

I mean cmon Apple.... FFS (for f*** sake) Fix the speed issues damnit.... something as simple as navigating the finder and printing should be instantaneous as it always has been.

Damn.. navigating the finder in OS 7 was faster than OS X.
Steve JOBS needs to get his priorities straight.. who gives a crap if PC people want to switch over.... Graphic Realms are what made Mac what it is today..... they should satisfy our needs first and foremost. Cause if we don't buy the new Macs that come with OS X only to do our graphic work..... Apple will go Chapter 11.

I'd rather do my work on a PC before going to OS X fullltime.
You seem to bear resemblance to that UPS guy on Mad TV... you know, that super hyper guy that is in such a hurry to get through each single task?

OS 9 is more responsive in doing SINGLE tasks. This has been rehashed countless times, and is just pointless to argue anymore. You'll eventually learn to adapt to a modern workflow. Sorry if this sounds condescending.

As far as your experience with OS 9 stability, many will claim that your experience is unique. That is something which you cannot deny, and something that I personally fear when I have to work in OS 9.

All of those milliseconds added up of lost time waiting for OS X to respond does not equal the time fiddling around with OS 9 extension sets, in my opinion.

As I also said to the last person, there are things you can do to make OS X more like OS 9 as well. I haven't tried them, but please let us know how they work should you feel so inclined to experiment.

I know I'm just playing the role of the broken record...
     
GoGoReggieXPowars
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Dec 20, 2002, 04:32 PM
 
Yeah, I have a G4/400, tonnes of RAM, and every once in a while when doing Photoshop work, the slowness just gets to me and I get really frustrated. From using other apps that are slow to pop up dialogs and whatnot, I think it's a Carbon issue. And Apple alone is to blame for that.

Heck, you could see it using Thoth (a 100% Carbon Usenet client) in 9: when you had a newsgroup window open with lots of topics, and hence taking a lot of RAM, the window updates were pretty slow, and on top of that, it'd slow the Finder down! Man, what a pain in the butt that was!

Seriously, APU, if you find you can get your work done better in 9, go for it. I switched back and forth for a while, but as soon as I got the PS7 upgrade, I went to X fulltime with the occasional foray back into 9 for various reasons. I don't know how PS7 runs on 9,
since I kept my 5.5 install around.

*sigh* I wonder how long it'll be before I can afford to buy a new Mac? This one's nearing it's 3rd birthday and is due for a replacement.
     
besson3c
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Dec 20, 2002, 04:37 PM
 
I smell another carbon/cocoa argument/debate. =)

If what has been said here is indeed true, the fact that an app is Carbon or Cocoa has nothing to do with its speed in and of itself.
     
Hi I'm Ben
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Dec 20, 2002, 05:02 PM
 
So go back to OS 9?
An OS isn't always for everyone, or their machines.

Just like anything else, not everyone runs XP because it's the newest and "Best" windows operating system, it runs slow for some people.. or they might just prefer an older OS.

Whatever the case you're going back to 9.

Did you post this so we would talk you out of it?
I've enjoyed your public service announcement but honestly, whatever works for you just do it and be happy with your life.
     
JLL
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Dec 20, 2002, 05:07 PM
 
Originally posted by OSxRulz:

Damn.. navigating the finder in OS 7 was faster than OS X.
But System 6 was much faster than that System 7 with all that eye candy like color
JLL

- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
     
ringo
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Dec 20, 2002, 05:18 PM
 
Luddite!

Just use the tool that lets you do what you need to do. If you can work in 9 without crashes and it's faster on your machine, then why should you feel like you have to change?
     
besson3c
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Dec 20, 2002, 05:24 PM
 
Just use the tool that lets you do what you need to do. If you can work in 9 without crashes and it's faster on your machine, then why should you feel like you have to change?
I agree completely. I just can't resist at commenting at what I consider weak comments against OS X. If you like OS 9 more, well there isn't a thing anybody can say to argue with that.. =)
     
Adam Betts
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Dec 20, 2002, 05:34 PM
 
APU, your excuses of why OS X isn't ready is really "tired". Get over it. OS X is already ready for prime time. Ever heard of Quartz Extreme?

You're wasting time here anyway. I'm not sure what exactly you are looking from us. Perhaps you are lonely and want someone to join you the trip to OS 9?
     
spiznet
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Dec 20, 2002, 05:49 PM
 
For arguments sake, say that OSX is half as fast as OS9 (its not)

If you are used to working on OS9 at 500Mhz and you get a Dual 1Gig system in OSX, then you are working *twice* as fast as you were before (1G + 1G multiprocessing= 2G).

The new system you bought probably costs less than what you paid for the last one. (but consider whether you really want that $2500 flat panel compared to 2 19" CRTs for $500 total.)

So: Apple is probably not going to have trouble selling the merits of the OSX system to new purchasers. It's just the rest of us working on 2 year old hardware.
     
Apple Pro Underwear  (op)
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Dec 20, 2002, 07:01 PM
 
Originally posted by ringo:
Luddite!

Just use the tool that lets you do what you need to do. If you can work in 9 without crashes and it's faster on your machine, then why should you feel like you have to change?

!!!!

Now that ringo hath spoken, i will follow thy orders!



i'm in OS9 now and i think that i as of right now, OS9 is better for me, so that's that
     
besson3c
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Dec 20, 2002, 07:11 PM
 
Now that ringo hath spoken, i will follow thy orders!



i'm in OS9 now and i think that i as of right now, OS9 is better for me, so that's that

The man not only knows what underwear is best for him, but what OS is as well!

Can you tell us more about Apple Pro Underwear? Is it grey, or filled with eye-candy?
     
Apple Pro Underwear  (op)
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Dec 20, 2002, 07:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Adam Betts:
APU, your excuses of why OS X isn't ready is really "tired". Get over it. OS X is already ready for prime time. Ever heard of Quartz Extreme?

You're wasting time here anyway. I'm not sure what exactly you are looking from us
I don't have quartz extreme, i have the tibook 500. i spent a lot of money on it and i can't get a new computer yet for awhile.

I never said anything to the extent of "OSX sucks!", so why are you suggesting i am saying it is not ready for prime-time? I just said it ain't right for me. read my first post.

Wasting my time? I know for a fact that MacNN is a great website with a great community and when i make major OS decisions, running it by these Mac aficinados is never a bad idea. Just the personal accounts of deathman, macmike, ooakla, star wars guy have already helped me tremendously.

Perhaps you are lonely and want someone to join you the trip to OS 9?
If anything i am trying to seek help to keep me in OSX! I've been away from MacNN for awhile, so i'm not sure why you're acting this way, but the Adam Betts i remember wasn't as brash
     
Apple Pro Underwear  (op)
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Dec 20, 2002, 07:16 PM
 
Originally posted by besson3c:

Can you tell us more about Apple Pro Underwear? Is it grey, or filled with eye-candy?
Just like OSX...it has great eye-candy but what's really great about it is what's inside it

(I'll miss the Unix Underpinnings)
     
Adam Betts
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Dec 20, 2002, 09:54 PM
 
Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
If anything i am trying to seek help to keep me in OSX! I've been away from MacNN for awhile, so i'm not sure why you're acting this way, but the Adam Betts i remember wasn't as brash
Heh, sorry for being harsh. I thought you want to start a flamebait thread for some reason but I jumped over the conclusion. I apologize

You're right though. MacNN is the best place to get help, advice, etc so I'd like to take my post back.
     
booboo
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Dec 20, 2002, 10:04 PM
 
Hmmm... I could have written your post - 9 months ago, now I find myself on the other side of the fence.

Originally posted by OSxRulz:
dude.. I'm with you on the switch back to OS 9 fulltime.

I'm a photoretoucher/designer and OS X sucks A$$ for doing our kind of work. Bottom line________ I don't care if you got the dual 1.25mhz G4s.... it still won't perform as fast as OS 9 for quark, photoshop, and Illustrator type of work.
Well, I don't think Quark in Classic is significantly slower, and as soon as you bring DP's into the equation, then OS X starts to shine. I'm sure Photoshop will eventually get better threading on X, and then on DP machines the performance will start to soar, rather than just the 15% or so improvemnt we're seeing at the moment.

Originally posted by OSxRulz:


I can blaze thru my work under OS 9... under OS X... it's like squeezing maple syrup out of a frozen jar. It looks pretty.... tastes great but falls short on timely satisfaction.
OS X is for peeps who only do home/kid stuff... like surfing, music, or just general fiddling around.

OS X definitely takes a little getting used to, and the UI at times does seem slow, several times slower than OS 9 it's true, but the amount of time - real time - I've saved by not having one app bring down the whole system, is incalculable. OS X can sometimes feel slow, but its disk access and transfer is about twice that of OS 9, in my experience, and this can make a big difference working with large files. I think calling OS X slow is a subjective evaluation that can disproven with measurements. I didn't learn to love X until I'd forced myself to understand its way of doing things, now I wouldn't go back to 9 even on my current PowerMac 8500!



Originally posted by OSxRulz:

My 1st Generation G4 400 runs smoother, faster, and is just as stable as OSX.
I can work under OS 9 for weeks without even restarting the damn thing.
You are luck in that Quark and Photoshop ARE pretty stable under 9, and that, if you trim down your Extensions you can end up with a pretty stable System, but no way does this approach OS X. I don't believe that OS 9 will not suffer at least one system-wide freeze on at least a daily basis, as soon as you have a browser running, or you're playing some mp3's in the background. As for weeks without restarting, with a slim system, running Quark and Photoshop, then maybe, just maybe, but I'm not convinced. In my line - pro audio - I got so fed up of restarting I migrated to simpler solutions - in the short-term - just to get some stability, and what I also got was a real performance increase, despite a slower UI...

Originally posted by OSxRulz:

Damn.. navigating the finder in OS 7 was faster than OS X.
Steve JOBS needs to get his priorities straight.. who gives a crap if PC people want to switch over.... Graphic Realms are what made Mac what it is today..... they should satisfy our needs first and foremost. Cause if we don't buy the new Macs that come with OS X only to do our graphic work..... Apple will go Chapter 11.

I'd rather do my work on a PC before going to OS X fullltime.
I do feel for you, but the Finder in 7 was nowhere near as fast as X's. Searches were much slower, File transfers way slower, it didn't multi-task (everything stopped while you copied a file or emptied the trash) However, 7's UI did feel more responsive, it's true, and that was a decision made in the design of the original MacOS, that performance would be sacrificed to provide a better user experience.

One other point, your G4/400 is a few generations old now - I know time goes faster now we're older ;-) - but let's just say running OS X on it is roughly like trying to run Mac OS 8.5 on a PowerMac 7200/90 or even a 7500/100 if you prefer. The time-lines aren't dissimilar. OS 8.5 did bring some mult-threading, and is one of my favourite Classic Mac OS's, but the fact of the matter is OS X is ferforming much better in terms of raw performance on your G4/400 than the newer Classic OS's ever did on equivalently older machines.

I think the trasition to X is harder than some may realise, especially for us long time Mac users, but I think X will win you over. The revelation for me was the realisation that OS X is closer to the true spirit of the Macintosh - even System 7 if you like - than the bloated, graphite moster called 9, that it sadly became... I just had to do some 'unlearning' to really appreciate this.

And Windows? Well, let's face, it's an idle threat, not an option for people of discerning taste. I know, I tried it.

As for Chapter 11, Mac OS X is the one asset - more than any other, that ensures Apple has a future in this Windows world. For the first time on the Mac, and OS that embodies all that is special about the Mac, and also beats Windows XP at its own game - superior multi-tasking, memory management and stability...

Give it another chance...:-)
     
juanvaldes
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Dec 21, 2002, 12:10 AM
 
Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:



!!!!

Now that ringo hath spoken, i will follow thy orders!



i'm in OS9 now and i think that i as of right now, OS9 is better for me, so that's that
now you better start cranking out photshop jobs!
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- Thomas Jefferson, 1787
     
eno
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Dec 21, 2002, 12:16 AM
 
Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
I posted this here bacause i'm serious and so that means i don't want to act like a troll in the OSX section

OSX is just not fast enough for me. All the effects and docks and etc to me don't make it better than OS9. Multi-tasking and all the UNIX stuff and terminal mean nothing to me. To be quite honest...i have always liked the look of the classic OS9 GUI. As of right now, OS9 to me looks better than OSX.

I have been going back to OS9 just to work on projects and going back to OSX for everything else. In the experience of going back and forth...i feel even now, OS9 is still significantly better.

I see the dock as the best feature of OSX. I have a tab with all my app shortcuts that basically does the same thing and takes up less space.

Tech Info: graphic designer and i have a tibook 500 with 768 RAM. Running OS9.2 and OS10.2.2 jaguar (purchased) on 2 partitions.

What do you think? I would seriously like to know what you folks think.
Going back to OS 9?

See ya.
     
ZackS
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Dec 21, 2002, 02:52 AM
 
**** you all. I'm going back to System 1. You try copying files between two floppies on one floppy drive without using a hard disk in OS X! I look at my G4's case and say: "Look at all that plastic. It must be using up so much room that Apple had to remove the floppy to floppy copy feature in System 8."
     
TheIceMan
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Dec 21, 2002, 02:03 PM
 
Originally posted by macmike42:
I'm going back to scratching out arcane symbols on big stone tablets. While I'm at it, I'm giving up this "language" thing. New words keep getting added all the time, new definitions for old words whose current definitions have not yet "expired", I just can't keep up! There is little I cannot express with a grunt, growl, scream, whimper, or some form of flatulence. I also can't stand modern-day grocery stores, so I think I'll make myself a club so I can hunt down my after-work snack and bludgeon it to death. And this "fire" thing is overrated too...

The "I'm going back to pencil and paper" thread was much more entertaining.
Now this is quoting you. MacMike42 I like your sense of humor. I did not take it to be "flaming" or trashing Underwear. Man, I couldn't stop laughing. That is the funniest post I have read since joining. My interpretation of your post was that if Underwear wants to stick with what's outdated (eventhough it may work better for him/her) then that's his choice. Geez, people get so defensive.
     
bgmccollum
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Dec 21, 2002, 03:21 PM
 
last year i bought an ibook 500 seeing as how my blue g3 couldnt cope with osx, and i would finally have a machine that could handle osx. well, surprise, it sucked (not the os, the experience). dont get me wront, i love osx, i hate how it runs though. i though it was just cause of the early release of osx and all its bugs. time has passed, and it has gotten better, just not where it should be. sure all you people with g4 it runs great on. but apple still sells g3 machines and it should run on those as well. so, i switched. i am finally fed up with 2 hour battery life and unresponsiveness of os x. back to 9, speed, and long battery life, up to 5 hours at that. hah....and those that question stability of os 9, on my blue g3 i generally run at least 10 apps at a time. all running smooth with no slowdown. finder, itunes, entourage, explorer, netscape, stickies, transmit, macssh, photoshop, golive, illustrator, imageready, and AIM. thats on a slow day. im streaming music during this whole time and running IMAP so entourage is constantly updating. i also have keep alive in transmit and a connection to several servers at work via ssh. all from my measly bw g3. its time for apple to rethink this os x thing. people were getting more work done back in os9...can you believe that....



bg
     
Xeo
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Dec 21, 2002, 05:07 PM
 
Originally posted by OSxRulz:
dude.. I'm with you on the switch back to OS 9 fulltime.

I'm a photoretoucher/designer and OS X sucks A$$ for doing our kind of work. Bottom line________ I don't care if you got the dual 1.25mhz G4s.... it still won't perform as fast as OS 9 for quark, photoshop, and Illustrator type of work.

I can blaze thru my work under OS 9... under OS X... it's like squeezing maple syrup out of a frozen jar. It looks pretty.... tastes great but falls short on timely satisfaction.
OS X is for peeps who only do home/kid stuff... like surfing, music, or just general fiddling around.

My 1st Generation G4 400 runs smoother, faster, and is just as stable as OSX.
I can work under OS 9 for weeks without even restarting the damn thing.

I mean cmon Apple.... FFS (for f*** sake) Fix the speed issues damnit.... something as simple as navigating the finder and printing should be instantaneous as it always has been.

Damn.. navigating the finder in OS 7 was faster than OS X.
Steve JOBS needs to get his priorities straight.. who gives a crap if PC people want to switch over.... Graphic Realms are what made Mac what it is today..... they should satisfy our needs first and foremost. Cause if we don't buy the new Macs that come with OS X only to do our graphic work..... Apple will go Chapter 11.

I'd rather do my work on a PC before going to OS X fullltime.
You're username, along with this whole post, is too funny.

I think responsiveness is in the eye of the beholder. What I mean is, use a G3 for all your OS X experience for almost 2 years. Then jump on a G4. You'll see what I mean. OS X feels just find on a G4 to me. I use OS X full time already and I'm on a B&W. OS 9 just doesn't have what I want or need anymore. Of course, with OS X's launch, I've become friends with the command line so going back to an OS without it just doesn't work.

If you want to use 9, do it. You *will* use OS X or Windows someday. Just keep that in mind.
     
Apple Pro Underwear  (op)
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Dec 22, 2002, 12:28 AM
 
Well...the way that i work, responsiveness is key.

Not just in productivity...but just in terms of morale in doing boring work.

But yes, i am fully aware i will be back in OSX next year. Actually, i have been OS9 for a full day now and i have to say i do miss a few OSX perks already but i am satisfied so far with my decision.
     
 
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