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Okay, That Tears It
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subego
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Jun 28, 2012, 04:47 PM
 
Sunscreen forbidden at schools and camps – USATODAY.com

Happened across this article today. I'm used to schools doing stupid stuff, but getting three in one article made something snap.

The thrust of the article is about a girl who ran afoul of a zero-tolerance policy on OTC drugs, didn't get any sunscreen, and unsurprisingly, got a case of the fricasee.

What the article added though, is teachers feel uncomfortable putting sunscreen on kids because they might be considered molesters.

And many schools won't let kids wear sunhats because hats are banned due to gangs.

It's very possible this article is sensationalizing stuff a bit, but I wouldn't be shocked if it isn't, and that's just frigging nutty.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 28, 2012, 04:49 PM
 
Mary Schmich gets no respect.
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 28, 2012, 04:54 PM
 
With a name like Schmich, it's got to be good.
     
OAW
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Jun 28, 2012, 04:59 PM
 
A prime example of aggravated stupidity brought on by an overly litigious society.

OAW
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 28, 2012, 09:54 PM
 
The policy is stupid, but... did she put sunscreen on the kids before sending them off to camp?

At various camps we send the kids to, you do that and pack your own sunscreen with them for the day. If the kids are old enough the camp has them reapply themselves 1/2 through the day (yeah that happens, son is now tan) or for younger kids there is a waiver you sign that gives the camp permission to apply.

a no hat policy is stupid.
     
hyteckit
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Jun 29, 2012, 12:36 AM
 
If they implement such a policy, they should have a nurse around with sunscreen, aspirin, water, and a first aid kit.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 29, 2012, 01:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
The policy is stupid, but... did she put sunscreen on the kids before sending them off to camp?

At various camps we send the kids to, you do that and pack your own sunscreen with them for the day. If the kids are old enough the camp has them reapply themselves 1/2 through the day (yeah that happens, son is now tan) or for younger kids there is a waiver you sign that gives the camp permission to apply.

a no hat policy is stupid.
According to the article, it was a school field trip which took place on a day that started overcast.

Following along with what hyteckit said, I've had to plan field activities for adults, and I make sure to bring sunscreen for everyone and a first aid kit. I put a big label on the crate which says "sunscreen in here, use it - mom".

As for the hat policy, it was a sad day for our children's health when the OGs started wearing sunhats with delicate pink ribbons.
     
ghporter
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Jun 29, 2012, 06:32 AM
 
Solution: spray on sunscreen. No touch, no hats, no sunburn, no big deal.

This sort of "logic" is similar to the way some of my professors would come up with grading plans that effectively required complex math when even an involved "quizzes are worth X each, tests are worth Y each, homework is worth Z per assignment, get at least P points before the final and you don't have to take it" scheme would have given them the same results. Overthinking, and overmanaging issues is one thing, but stepping away from the responsibility to protect one's charges from the elements because of fear of "appearing" to be wrong is just dumb.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Demonhood
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Jun 29, 2012, 12:31 PM
 
Also, why does no one realize you can get burnt on a rainy/overcast day just as easily as on a sunny one?
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 29, 2012, 12:35 PM
 
As easily?
     
OAW
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Jun 29, 2012, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
Also, why does no one realize you can get burnt on a rainy/overcast day just as easily as on a sunny one?
Can't say. I don't have those sorts of issues easily rain or shine.

OAW
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 29, 2012, 01:32 PM
 
fine, fine, rub it in... or actually, don't...

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Solution: spray on sunscreen. No touch, no hats, no sunburn, no big deal
you can't spray on faces though, so someone has to spray on hands, then apply to face. If the girl had been allowed to bring her own, at 11 she's old enough to do this... but it sounds like any sunscreen was verboten. (Half the time with spray I end up using my hands to redistribute evenly on arms etc anyhow...)

I also would like to accuse the entirety of Red Sox Nation of belonging to a gang, due to you know, the hats.
     
Snow-i
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Jun 29, 2012, 01:35 PM
 
You know whats coming next, right?

These schools are going to ban being in the sun for more then 10 minutes at a time to avoid the issue entirely.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jun 29, 2012, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As easily?
Yes. Clouds do absolutely nothing to block incoming UV rays.
     
OAW
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Jun 29, 2012, 09:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Yes. Clouds do absolutely nothing to block incoming UV rays.
Which is why melanin is such a beautiful thing.

OAW
     
gradient
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Jun 29, 2012, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Yes. Clouds do absolutely nothing to block incoming UV rays.
I'm calling BS on that. I have never once even come close to getting a sunburn on a cloudy day.

A quick google search, filtered for legit-looking sites, backs up that clouds do block UV rays to one degree or another (though not completely, of course).

AMC: AMC Outdoors - UV Protection
The Danger of Ultraviolet Rays
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 29, 2012, 09:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Yes. Clouds do absolutely nothing to block incoming UV rays.
I don't buy it.

Apart from the empirical evidence of never getting burnt on a cloudy day, clouds do too good of a job filtering near-UV. This is why clouds are white, not blue. While falloff in opacity is to be expected at some point, I don't know how all of a sudden they'd turn completely transparent to nearby wavelengths.

The online consensus seems to be that 80% can get through as a maximum.
     
hyteckit
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Jun 29, 2012, 10:02 PM
 
Should I put on sunscreen even if I don't get sunburn?

I don't ever put on sunscreen. I've been getting a good tan lately.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
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subego  (op)
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Jun 29, 2012, 10:10 PM
 
I've got enough black dude swimming around in there I've never really needed it to stop sunburn. I only get burnt when do something stupid (like fall asleep in the noon sun).

I do live in Chicago, though, so my body is going through a perpetual dark and handsome to pasty cycle. After 40 years my skin isn't particularly leathery. I mention this because I've seen people in SoCal (which IIRC, is where you are) who end up looking like shriveled handbags.

I'm actually on medication now which makes me more likely to burn, and had no skills in terms of stopping sunburn. I've since settled on a boonie hat and making sure I build up a tan early in the season when it's tougher to make time spent in the sun mistakes.

I really hate sunscreen.
( Last edited by subego; Jun 29, 2012 at 10:16 PM. )
     
Athens
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Jun 30, 2012, 03:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Solution: spray on sunscreen. No touch, no hats, no sunburn, no big deal.

This sort of "logic" is similar to the way some of my professors would come up with grading plans that effectively required complex math when even an involved "quizzes are worth X each, tests are worth Y each, homework is worth Z per assignment, get at least P points before the final and you don't have to take it" scheme would have given them the same results. Overthinking, and overmanaging issues is one thing, but stepping away from the responsibility to protect one's charges from the elements because of fear of "appearing" to be wrong is just dumb.
The hat is still a vital component to safety in the sun. Its not just about sun burns but heat stroke. A well designed had will shade the eyes, the face, and the heat from the heat. Its why cowboys, and historically most people out doors had hats.
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Athens
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Jun 30, 2012, 03:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As easily?
Its a myth, a overcast day blocks a lot of the UV radiation that causes sunburns. Partial overcast or some clouds do nothing to protect you.
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Athens
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Jun 30, 2012, 03:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Yes. Clouds do absolutely nothing to block incoming UV rays.
Sigh, looks like the Alberta education system is a total failure
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Athens
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Jun 30, 2012, 03:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Should I put on sunscreen even if I don't get sunburn?

I don't ever put on sunscreen. I've been getting a good tan lately.
really depends on your exposure hours. UV radiation is a cumulative effect through out the day. If you are driving around a lot and keep your windows closed you will get less exposure then if you have your window open. If you are in the water on a sunny day I would say absolutely because the water reflects more UV at you. There is good debates about the damage that sunscreen does to the skin and cancer risk to. Being covered is the best advice really. A umbrella when or something to give shade when on the beach for example. I would say sunscreen is best for when you will be out in the sun with out shade for extended periods of time or in the water. But if you are shaded and will be for much of the time then no.
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andi*pandi
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Jun 30, 2012, 10:05 AM
 
Um, most windows do not protect against sun, look at this guy here:
NEJM article on sun damage

The patient reported that he had driven a delivery truck for 28 years. Ultraviolet A (UVA) rays transmit through window glass, penetrating the epidermis and upper layers of dermis. Chronic UVA exposure can result in thickening of the epidermis and stratum corneum, as well as destruction of elastic fibers. This photoaging effect of UVA is contrasted with photocarcinogenesis. Although exposure to ultraviolet B (UVB) rays is linked to a higher rate of photocarcinogenesis, UVA has also been shown to induce substantial DNA mutations and direct toxicity, leading to the formation of skin cancer.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jun 30, 2012, 11:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Sigh, looks like the Alberta education system is a total failure
According to the NOAA, "while thick, dark clouds can block UV radiation, puffy or thin-layered clouds do not. Hazy days may see just as high UV values reaching the surface as on clear days. Some clouds may even increase the radiation by reflecting and refracting the sun's rays or the skyshine back to the ground."
National Weather Service - NWS Flagstaff
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 30, 2012, 11:51 AM
 
The 'hood didn't say "hazy" or "wispy", he said "rainy".
     
Wiskedjak
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Jun 30, 2012, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The 'hood didn't say "hazy" or "wispy", he said "rainy".
Neither did the NOAA say "wispy". It said "puffy", "thin-layered" and "hazy". You can experience some rain with overcast, thin-layered cloud cover.

There's a big range between this


and this


both of which can produce rain.
     
ghporter
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Jun 30, 2012, 06:39 PM
 
An overcast might cut down on the UV reaching ground level, but it might not, too. It depends on how thick the clouds are, and at what level. The problem with an overcast, is that it can diffuse the light, UV and all, and help cause burns "in the shade."

And let's not forget that overcast skies give some people the idea that NO UV gets through, so they use little or no sun protection.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Wiskedjak
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Jun 30, 2012, 09:24 PM
 
exactly
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 1, 2012, 06:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
both of which can produce rain.
And neither of which accurately depicts "rainy".
     
Wiskedjak
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Jul 1, 2012, 08:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
And neither of which accurately depicts "rainy".
That's entirely dependent and subjective to the observer.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 1, 2012, 10:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
That's entirely dependent and subjective to the observer.
For the record, if I asked you what the weather was like, you said "rainy", and I stepped out to see that ridiculous storm cloud you posted, I'd assume you were being sarcastic or trying to kill me.
     
ebuddy
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Jul 2, 2012, 10:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
A prime example of aggravated stupidity brought on by an overly litigious society.

OAW
ebuddy
     
Wiskedjak
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Jul 2, 2012, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
For the record, if I asked you what the weather was like, you said "rainy", and I stepped out to see that ridiculous storm cloud you posted, I'd assume you were being sarcastic or trying to kill me.
Lol! Fair enough. Just saying' that "rainy" is very subjective and doesn't necessarily mean thick clouds.
     
   
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