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New to DV
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silverghost
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Dec 16, 2001, 08:04 AM
 
Hi all, well im a total newbie to DV so im wondering if anybody can help me with some equipment advice? Im planning on using FCP3,canon gl1,and sony pc120bt(bluetooth),on either a ti667 or maybe a new G whatever when they(apple) announces(hopefully release) then next month.


aloha
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NeoMac
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Dec 16, 2001, 01:14 PM
 
FCP3, Canon GL1, a Sony PC120BT and a Mac G-whatever ?!

... you forgot to include the Canon EOS D30 digital camera and the dual 22" Apple Cinema Displays, running on dual GeForce 3s. Without these, you really can't do DV. You should reconsider.

BTW, the Sony PC120BT doesn't work with Macs.
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nima15
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Dec 16, 2001, 01:56 PM
 
That's correct the sony won't go with mac BUT,

I think you got the big chunk of the dough down, all you need now is a good video card and if you really care you can get a DV deck (totally optional) and also a video monitor to view your footage on a line base system instead of pixel.

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silverghost  (op)
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Dec 16, 2001, 06:17 PM
 
WOWthanks for such a quick response folks. Ok i was thinking of the sony pc120 for small quick stuff; with that in mind can someone suggest one in that same style(something i can stuff into my daypack)?

... you forgot to include the Canon EOS D30 digital camera and the dual 22" Apple Cinema Displays, running on dual GeForce 3s. Without these, you really can't do DV. You should reconsider.
Ok as for the camera, i might be able to spring for that now that i find out the sony wont work. Um i was thinking of getting the 22" but i can only afford one for now. And as for the dual Geforce 3s, i again can only afford one cpu(after the expo next month of course ). I forgot to mention i already got a pismo.
But with that said thanks again and please keep the suggestions coming.


aloha
"In my madness my eyes are now open"
     
silverghost  (op)
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Dec 16, 2001, 06:23 PM
 
Originally posted by nima15:
<STRONG>That's correct the sony won't go with mac BUT,

I think you got the big chunk of the dough down, all you need now is a good video card and if you really care you can get a DV deck (totally optional) and also a video monitor to view your footage on a line base system instead of pixel.

Cheers </STRONG>
Thanks nima15. Ok now i guess the question is what video card can someone suggest?
And also video monitor can anybody suggest one(oh god i hope there cheap)?
Thanks again and please keep um coming.


aloha
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gee308
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Dec 16, 2001, 07:04 PM
 
I'm new to DV too. I was about to buy the powerbook 667, but you guys are saying at leat a dual processor is needed? Does that mean I can't do any homebrew/semi-professional DV on a new powerbook?
     
rjc3
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Dec 16, 2001, 11:04 PM
 
sorry if I am missing something here, but why would an extra video card be beneficial? I edit video on my 400 Pismo with only the built in firewire ports and the Rage 128 Pro and an external HD and it works great. I could see a high end video card for analog work, but for DV? And no, you don't need a multiple processor G4 to do DV - that's what is cool about DV compared with analog editing: much lower system requirements. A 667 TiBook would kick a$$ for DV editing just by itself, although you would probably want to invest in a decent firewire external HD. From what I know (little), FCP 3's real time effects are avaialbe on any G4 mac.

gee308: you don't need a multiple processor mac for dv editing. you don't even need a G4!
     
NeoMac
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Dec 16, 2001, 11:28 PM
 
gee308, If you just want to mess around with DV for fun, then all you need is an iMac and a digital camera.

That's it.
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nitram_again
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Dec 17, 2001, 01:14 AM
 
but why would an extra video card be beneficial?
so you can run 1 monitor with your DV app and one with your footage. or one monitor for working on the footage and a TV for viewing the results.
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nima15
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Dec 17, 2001, 01:49 AM
 
Well, what kind of VideoCard ready depends on the Operating System you are using but for Mac I know the new radion Cards are pretty high end (for mac standard). ATI makes good cards.

Video monitors are unfortunetly not very cheap they go from 250.00 to 2000.00 but they do make a difference in your work I used to think i can just hook the computer upto the normal TV and edit...but NO NO the signals are different and it does make a difference. I think sony makes the best ones and also the most expensive ones but i bought mine 120.00 from ebay and obviusly used.


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silverghost  (op)
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Dec 17, 2001, 02:48 AM
 
Originally posted by nima15:
<STRONG>Well, what kind of VideoCard ready depends on the Operating System you are using but for Mac I know the new radion Cards are pretty high end (for mac standard). ATI makes good cards.

Video monitors are unfortunetly not very cheap they go from 250.00 to 2000.00 but they do make a difference in your work I used to think i can just hook the computer upto the normal TV and edit...but NO NO the signals are different and it does make a difference. I think sony makes the best ones and also the most expensive ones but i bought mine 120.00 from ebay and obviusly used.


Cheers </STRONG>

Cool thats not to expensive, But as for the cards how 'bout the nvidia cards?
Ok how would someone go 'bout hooking everything up to the G4 and my Pismo(768ram,48gig), and how big should the hard drive(maybe more than one of course)be? ill probably try making a small documentary or something.
Since the sony pc handhelds dont work with the mac, would the canon optura mc100 be a comparable replacement? i figure a small dv cam i can put in my daypack(i know you gonna spend all that money then just toss it in your knapsack so it can break,give me a break ill find a case or something to protect it, and the many lens and stuff) for quick stuff. On the subject of lens anybody shoot dv in the dark(hey theres interesting stuff happening in the dark all the time,so stop laughing)? and will it work on the canons?
Cool thanks all for your suggestions! please keep um coming.


aloha

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: silverghost ]
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gee308
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Dec 17, 2001, 04:39 AM
 
a couple questions, where can I see more information about sony cams not working? Is there a fix or upgrade coming later with either apple or sony? I like the sony cams, its a shame. Is there a site that has a list of compatible DV cameras with OSX?
Are what cheap-mid price DV cameras do you guys recommend?
Also, what kind of stuff can I do with iMovie? I saw the demo movies at the apple store and they just showed stuff like adding music and fading one scene to another? I take it that iMovie doesn't have much stuff in it? I probably want to be doing much more than "fading". Also, with Final cut pro 3 what kind of stuff can I do? I read a few reviews, but most of the terms I don't understand and I probably don't need those features anyway, but is there somewhere I can read about it online with out the technical graphics stuff? Also is there a way to just try final cut pro 3 before purchasing it? I don't think iMovie is going to suit me, but FCP costs $1000. I know its not good, but I wanted to at least give it a quick try, but I couldn't find it on hotline or limewire, any better and more legal ways to try?
     
<arn>
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Dec 17, 2001, 05:40 AM
 
For a small Digital Video Camera that works with iMovie...

see the sony PCR-DC9
http://www.sonystyle.com/digitalimag...ture_PC9.shtml

arn
     
NeoMac
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Dec 17, 2001, 01:00 PM
 
I would suggest the Sony DCR-TRV17 camcorder instead. Although it costs less (i said 'more' earlier'), it has several very valuable features that the DCR-PC9 doesn't have.

The one feature that is really worth the extra bucks is the Analog-to-Digital Conversion with Pass-Through feature. This means you can take VHS tapes and old camcorder tapes, play them through the video input connection on the camcorder and capture the images directly to your hard drive as digital video. Then you can edit the old footage in iMovie and resave them to digital tape or DVD-R. This alone is a $300 feature, since it would cost that much just to buy a stand-alone digital converter box.

If you do have any old tapes you would like to convert (to digitize), then DCR-TRV17 is a more appropriate and less expensive choice.

The DCR-TRV17 has other worthwhile features, but their value is subject to the needs of each individual.

The DCR-PC9 costs more and I have no clue why. It does have progressive scan, but lacks many of the features of the cheaper DCR-TRV17. Maybe because it is smaller it costs more? Don't know. I might be missing something.

Either way, they are pricey camcorders at $1100 - $1300. Nothing wrong with the ZR-25 for $700. Hell, you could buy a digital converter (if you want one) and still save $100 from buying a DCR-TRV17. hmmmm... now you have me wondering

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: NeoMac ]
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zigzag
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Dec 17, 2001, 10:16 PM
 
silverghost, I don't understand some of these posts - video cards? multiple monitors? All you really need is a camera and a Firewire Mac. I'm not a professional, but I've been making pretty good movies on iMovie2 with an iMac and a Cube and a Canon Elura2. It sounds like you may be more ambitious, but if you're just learning or doing it as a hobby, a GL-1 and FCP are probably overkill, with steeper learning curves, like buying a Learjet to run to the corner store.

I've read of professionals who mostly rely on Canon Eluras for documentary work because they're simple to use and unobtrusive. Be honest with yourself about the kind of work you'll actually do, and whether you really want to haul a GL-1 around. As for software, iMovie2 is pretty versatile for non-professionals, and it's free. If you're just starting out, my advice is to start modestly, learn what your real needs are, and grow from there.

Any compatible Sony or Canon DV camera will do - at a given price point, they're essentially equal in quality. To my mind, what really counts is whether the camera is comfortable to you, and whether you like the controls. I like Canons, but other people like Sonys - it's mostly a personal matter.

Sony has the advantage of pass-through analog-to-digital conversion, but this only matters if you want to convert a lot of analog videotapes to digital. With the Canons you can do the same thing by recording to DV tape then downloading to the Mac - only one additional step.

One thing to consider is batteries - I like the way my Canon has a separate charger, so I can use the camera while the extra batteries are charging (I don't know if the Sony batteries charge on the camera or separately). And you will need extra batteries - count on it.

As for shooting in the dark, I wouldn't count on it with any of the compact models - they need good light to take good images. You might get a faint, grainy image in the dark, but that's about it. I don't know how the larger models like the GL-1 do in the dark.

You can do DV work on a 15 GB hard drive, but you'll get tired of it. I have a 60 GB in my Cube and it's big enough to hold my work-in-progress. I store everything else on DV tape - cheap and reliable. You can always add extra hard drives in a tower or via Firewire (if you get a Firewire drive, make sure it uses one of the new-generation bridges).
     
silverghost  (op)
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Dec 18, 2001, 07:51 AM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:
<STRONG>silverghost, I don't understand some of these posts - video cards? multiple monitors? All you really need is a camera and a Firewire Mac. I'm not a professional, but I've been making pretty good movies on iMovie2 with an iMac and a Cube and a Canon Elura2. It sounds like you may be more ambitious, but if you're just learning or doing it as a hobby, a GL-1 and FCP are probably overkill, with steeper learning curves, like buying a Learjet to run to the corner store.

I've read of professionals who mostly rely on Canon Eluras for documentary work because they're simple to use and unobtrusive. Be honest with yourself about the kind of work you'll actually do, and whether you really want to haul a GL-1 around. As for software, iMovie2 is pretty versatile for non-professionals, and it's free. If you're just starting out, my advice is to start modestly, learn what your real needs are, and grow from there.

Any compatible Sony or Canon DV camera will do - at a given price point, they're essentially equal in quality. To my mind, what really counts is whether the camera is comfortable to you, and whether you like the controls. I like Canons, but other people like Sonys - it's mostly a personal matter.

Sony has the advantage of pass-through analog-to-digital conversion, but this only matters if you want to convert a lot of analog videotapes to digital. With the Canons you can do the same thing by recording to DV tape then downloading to the Mac - only one additional step.

One thing to consider is batteries - I like the way my Canon has a separate charger, so I can use the camera while the extra batteries are charging (I don't know if the Sony batteries charge on the camera or separately). And you will need extra batteries - count on it.

As for shooting in the dark, I wouldn't count on it with any of the compact models - they need good light to take good images. You might get a faint, grainy image in the dark, but that's about it. I don't know how the larger models like the GL-1 do in the dark.

You can do DV work on a 15 GB hard drive, but you'll get tired of it. I have a 60 GB in my Cube and it's big enough to hold my work-in-progress. I store everything else on DV tape - cheap and reliable. You can always add extra hard drives in a tower or via Firewire (if you get a Firewire drive, make sure it uses one of the new-generation bridges).</STRONG>

Thank You i really needed some reasoning didnt i. Ok so im gonna try imovie and maybe an elura or one of the sony minis(i just love there design and i know a lot of people that would pay to have there vhs turned to dvd, what would this be the right way to do this?)first, then as you say see where it goes from there. I know sometimes i got to step back and say hey man kinda getting out of hand. Oh well thats what the forums are for "Post and Learn".

Would it be hard to record to dvd-r(i know total newbie to this arena, i also hope to get one of those superdrives w/tower next month)?

Thanks again and please keep um coming.


aloha

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: silverghost ]
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zigzag
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Dec 18, 2001, 12:02 PM
 
I don't know much about recording to DVD, but I think Neomac posted something about it on another recent thread. I think he was also thinking of going straight from VHS to DVD, but I don't know if he's done it yet.
     
silverghost  (op)
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Dec 18, 2001, 04:33 PM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:
<STRONG>I don't know much about recording to DVD, but I think Neomac posted something about it on another recent thread. I think he was also thinking of going straight from VHS to DVD, but I don't know if he's done it yet.</STRONG>
Thanks zigzag, ive decided to go with the sony pc120bt. on sonys site it says there compatible with macs, also 'cause i read somewhere that begining in 02' would be the start of bluetooth tech coming to usa. i figure that handheld should last a while, and with it being that small it would easily fit in my spire bag for quick access.
As for the HD, i carry my pismo almost every where that i go so im wondering if an external firewire drive would come in handy? and if yes whats the conversion ie. how much hard drive for roughly 2 hours of footage(i know im getting ahead of myself thats 2 hours finished work)? and how much hard drive space would be good to hold rough footage?
I know i should get the biggest drive out there but im thinking if most dv cams come with firewire can i just connect dv to firewire drive?

sorry for so many questions but i am eager to learn from from everyones experience.
Thanks keep um coming


aloha
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scottiB
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Dec 18, 2001, 04:49 PM
 
DV takes roughly a gig of space for every five minutes, so 12 gigs per hour of footage.
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silverghost  (op)
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Dec 18, 2001, 05:37 PM
 
Originally posted by scottiB:
<STRONG>DV takes roughly a gig of space for every five minutes, so 12 gigs per hour of footage.</STRONG>
WOW Thanks for the quick post; cool i figure the biggest portable and maybe get extra drive for the tower, so i can keep DV stuff separate from everything else.
Thanks and keep um coming.


aloha
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zigzag
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Dec 19, 2001, 01:00 PM
 
Originally posted by silverghost:
<STRONG> I know i should get the biggest drive out there but im thinking if most dv cams come with firewire can i just connect dv to firewire drive?</STRONG>
Definitely make sure your DV cam has Firewire. Even if you don't use a portable Firewire drive, you'll want Firewire to get video to and from the cam and Mac.

As for portable Firewire drives, www.barefeats.com has done a lot of testing of drives and Firewire cases. You can either buy one ready-made or buy your own case and put the drive of your choice in it. Just make sure that you get one with a new-generation Firewire bridge - barefeats.com discusses those (the Oxford 911 is one, but it's not the only one). Maxtor has a new one called the 3000DV that appears to work well with DV.

I've heard varying stories about whether you can go directly from the DV cam to a Firewire hard drive, or whether you have to go through the Mac first. I haven't tried it myself. Go to this site and check out the Firewire discussion board: www.2-pop.com

Don't forget that you can always store unedited, partially-edited, and edited video on the tapes themselves, and move it back and forth to your drive with no loss. The only stuff I keep on my hard drive is the stuff I'm currently working on. Everything else goes back onto tape. It's cheaper and more compact than a drive, and a tape is less likely to fail or get stolen than a drive. So you may not even need a FW drive unless you plan to do a lot of editing on the road. You could just use the Pismo for small bits of editing on the road and save the big jobs for your tower at home. If you want to spend the $$$ for a FW drive, it would certainly be nice to have one. I'm just saying that it's not essential for someone who's just getting started.

I'm going on vacation so that's all I can offer for now - glad to help, and good luck!
     
silverghost  (op)
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Dec 19, 2001, 07:36 PM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:
<STRONG>

Definitely make sure your DV cam has Firewire. Even if you don't use a portable Firewire drive, you'll want Firewire to get video to and from the cam and Mac.

As for portable Firewire drives, www.barefeats.com has done a lot of testing of drives and Firewire cases. You can either buy one ready-made or buy your own case and put the drive of your choice in it. Just make sure that you get one with a new-generation Firewire bridge - barefeats.com discusses those (the Oxford 911 is one, but it's not the only one). Maxtor has a new one called the 3000DV that appears to work well with DV.

I've heard varying stories about whether you can go directly from the DV cam to a Firewire hard drive, or whether you have to go through the Mac first. I haven't tried it myself. Go to this site and check out the Firewire discussion board: www.2-pop.com

Don't forget that you can always store unedited, partially-edited, and edited video on the tapes themselves, and move it back and forth to your drive with no loss. The only stuff I keep on my hard drive is the stuff I'm currently working on. Everything else goes back onto tape. It's cheaper and more compact than a drive, and a tape is less likely to fail or get stolen than a drive. So you may not even need a FW drive unless you plan to do a lot of editing on the road. You could just use the Pismo for small bits of editing on the road and save the big jobs for your tower at home. If you want to spend the $$$ for a FW drive, it would certainly be nice to have one. I'm just saying that it's not essential for someone who's just getting started.

I'm going on vacation so that's all I can offer for now - glad to help, and good luck!</STRONG>
Thanks zigzag, thats is what ive been looking for, have i nice trip. hope you have more suggestions when ya get back.


aloha
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gee308
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Dec 22, 2001, 10:30 AM
 
Originally posted by NeoMac:
<STRONG>gee308, If you just want to mess around with DV for fun, then all you need is an iMac and a digital camera.

That's it.</STRONG>
I am planning to do semi pro stuff. Imovie wont do, but I dont want to spend a fortune on a cam, around $1000 if possible, I just bought a combo drive 667 tibook, so I am kind of broke. I cant seem to find fcp3 anywhere to test it out either.
     
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Dec 27, 2001, 01:50 PM
 
Try to buy FCP 1.0 from online or friend then buy upgrade FCP 3.0 from Apple as it is only 300.00 and comes with Quciktime Pro.
     
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Dec 27, 2001, 01:55 PM
 
Originally posted by silverghost:
<STRONG>Hi all, well im a total newbie to DV so im wondering if anybody can help me with some equipment advice? Im planning on using FCP3,canon gl1,and sony pc120bt(bluetooth),on either a ti667 or maybe a new G whatever when they(apple) announces(hopefully release) then next month.


aloha</STRONG>

Questions? What is your output and what are you trying to out source too?
     
DayDream Believers
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Dec 27, 2001, 02:41 PM
 
In regards to my prior post I would like to state that there are questions to be asked from the individual or company prior to just giving an answer. The individual in question is he or she looking for a line of products in the Consumer, Pro-Sumer, or Professional area. Or is the person looking for just to be the Big Kid on the block with the newest toy??

From there the questions can go on as you need to look to the person or the company and what their needs are and not what you have or what I have bought as what is good for me may not be good for them.

Tom
     
silverghost  (op)
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Dec 28, 2001, 07:12 PM
 
Originally posted by DayDream Believers:
<STRONG>In regards to my prior post I would like to state that there are questions to be asked from the individual or company prior to just giving an answer. The individual in question is he or she looking for a line of products in the Consumer, Pro-Sumer, or Professional area. Or is the person looking for just to be the Big Kid on the block with the newest toy??

From there the questions can go on as you need to look to the person or the company and what their needs are and not what you have or what I have bought as what is good for me may not be good for them.

Tom</STRONG>
Hi daydreamer, well to answer your question regarding kid with biggest stick, i like the sony dvcams and maybe in the future ill get a better cam, and as for my needs ive stated in my earlier post that in the future id like to shoot a documentary. So for now ill learn w/pro-sumer stuff then when i get better ill switch to professional stuff; Why you may ask well ive always believed, that you should get the best rig you can afford at the time. See im new to DV and i'd like to output to dvd and show some work on the web. Hope that answered some of your questions.


aloha
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Dec 28, 2001, 11:40 PM
 
A good thought......

Tom
     
   
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