[Face Ache]

From here:
Al-Qaeda chief told us Iraq supplied WMD material: US





A high-ranking al-Qaeda operative in custody disclosed that Iraq supplied the Islamist militant group with material to build chemical and biological weapons, the White House said today.

"A senior al-Qaeda terrorist, now detained, who had been responsible for al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan, reports that al-Qaeda was intent on obtaining (weapons of mass destruction) assistance from Iraq," the White House said in a report.

The 25 page document was released as US President George W Bush holidayed at his Texas ranch.

The Bush administration cited links between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's Baath party regime as justification for attacking Iraq to oust Saddam. The administration also insisted Saddam had chemical and biological weapons and was pursuing nuclear weapons.

The report quoted the unnamed prisoner as saying al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden turned to Iraq after concluding his group could not produce chemical or biological weapons on its own in Afghanistan.

"Iraq agreed to provide chemical and biological weapons training for two al-Qaeda associates starting in December 2000," the report said.

"Senior al-Qaeda associate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi came to Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment, along with approximately two dozen al-Qaeda terrorist associates.

"This group stayed in Baghdad and other parts of Iraq and plotted terrorist attacks around the world."

The report, quoting the State Department, also says the fallen regime of Saddam Hussein "provided material assistance to Palestinian terrorist groups, including the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, Hamas and the Palestine Islamic Jihad".

The Saddam regime, says the report, "posed a threat to the security of the United States and the world. With the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime, a leader who pursued, used and possessed weapons of mass destruction is no longer in power."

Since May 1, when Bush declared the combat in Iraq effectively over, occupation forces have found no conclusive evidence of Baghdad's banned weapons programs in spite of intensive searches.

"Unnamed prisoner" eh? Funny how they can't name him but in the same paper on the same day the US can name other prisoners who divulge information.

Intelligence officials believe the likely target for flight 93 was the White House, based on information from Abu Zubaydah, an al-Qaeda leader in US custody.

Protecting sources again? Sources that are in custody?

I smell bullshit.

[shmerek]

I smell it too. Perhaps releasing the name would threaten national security

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
I smell bullshit. [/B]

Seriously, It might be true.

But How can we know?

you have to look at who is releasing this information, when and how.


This follows a bizarre pattern:
--Administration under scrutiny or criticism
--change in alert status based on nebulous vague threats.
-- release of intel that refutes the reason for scrutiny.
-- the intel is nonverifiable.
--overall emotional affect on citizenry: glossing over the scrutiny or criticism by distraction.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by shmerek:
I smell it too. Perhaps releasing the name would threaten national security

even if they released a name, who can verify it with the prisoner? he's being detained without access to the outside world.

the white house could say prisoner X admits to killing Lizze Borden with an axe. Without some way to verify or coroborate, it becomes difficult to know.

and, actually, I think if they DID have that information, releasing it this way, with this timing, is rather suspect.
wouldn't they not release ANY information if the name is being witheld to protect something?

[shmerek]

For me this statement hold as much weight as Rummie's "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by shmerek:
For me this statement hold as much weight as Rummie's "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

And that's exactly where they've found a bunch of stuff...right in that area. Stay tuned for the grand release of the findings.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Seriously, It might be true.

But How can we know?

EXACTLY how propaganda works! Could be true. Let's see who swallows it.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
And that's exactly where they've found a bunch of stuff...right in that area. Stay tuned for the grand release of the findings.

If, as you maintain, stuff is being found but the information is being withheld... why? Political gain? This isn't a game you know.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
I smell bullshit.

Of course you do, because it's not what you want to hear, and it's not supportive of your agenda. That doesn't mean it can't be true.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Of course you do, because it's not what you want to hear, and it's not supportive of your agenda. That doesn't mean it can't be true.

Hook, line and sinker.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Hook, line and sinker.

Please post any evidence you have that contradicts this report. Let's see what you've got (other than catch phrases).

[shmerek]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
And that's exactly where they've found a bunch of stuff...right in that area. Stay tuned for the grand release of the findings.

I'm tuned and if they do produce (and when I say produce I don't mean plant) WMDs (not a WMD program) bombs chemical and biological agents in quantity (no a ml vial) I will gladly eat crow and bow before your conservative wisdom. Unlike some posters around here if I am wrong I am not ashamed to admit it.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Please post any evidence you have that contradicts this report. Let's see what you've got (other than catch phrases).

Hey if I can state my case in four words or less more power to me. Long winded people tend to obfuscate.

You can believe what you want to believe. Or what your government wants you to believe. Personally I don't believe anything unless you can prove it to me. I am completely without faith.

This report is unfounded until they put a name to it. Notice how the paper distances itself from the report? "White House claims" etc. They aren't stupid.

Seems to me your gray areas are black and white and your black and white areas are all gray.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Please post any evidence you have that contradicts this report. Let's see what you've got (other than catch phrases).

Actually I've been told by reliable sources (unnamed) that this report is untrue.

[undotwa]

How can you trust the US Administration now?

One incident makes you loose a lot of credibility.

[shmerek]

Freak, just curious where are you pulling this from anyhow? Is this wishful thinking on your part or do you have some linage?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by shmerek:
Freak, just curious where are you pulling this from anyhow? Is this wishful thinking on your part or do you have some linage?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[BlackGriffen]

Another possibility:

The U.S. government was played for a patsy by an Al Qaeda operative who knew that the U.S. would jump at the excuse to invade Iraq, giving Al Qaeda increased recruitment and removing an uncooperative regime.

Even if it's honest, it means that Bush is jerking us around for political gain. Literally, if it's true it means that he's attempting to discredit his opponents by manipulating what information is available to the public. Whether effective or not, it's sleazy as Hell.

More importantly, even if they got an Al Qaeda operative to confess to the connection, without substantiation, it's meaningless. Given enough coercion, anyone here would confess to the assassination Abraham Lincoln. Without corroboration, it could very well be a frightened man telling his captors what he thinks they want to hear.

In other words, this release from the administration has more holes than swiss cheese used as the target in skeet shooting. Whether those holes are there because of obfuscation or overeagerness for any excuse to go to war is irrelevant because either way the administration is unfit to continue governing.

BlackGriffen

[Zimphire]

Yeah, who could really believe Saddam would sell WMD to a extremist group that wants to harm America.

I mean come on people.

[lemondrop]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yeah, who could really believe Saddam would sell WMD to a extremist group that wants to harm America.

I mean c u m on people.

Saddam wants to die as a martyr. If any lives are lost as the result of WMD he wants credit. Trust me, I'm his buddy. I'm Liberal.

Don't fret. The Brown spooge bomb. Is still in prototype.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yeah, who could really believe Saddam would sell WMD to a extremist group that wants to harm America.

I mean come on people.

It's true he could. But lots of bad things could happen. Exactly how paranoid do you want to get? If you don't demand proof then even your wildest nightmares could be true. I mean the lunatic fringe think the Armageddon is coming. Bush might believe it too. Are you going to blindly follow along?

Unfortunately it's like the boy who cried wolf. Even if the White House is telling the truth now I won't believe them until I see proof.

[Zimphire]

ER I don't think I am being paranoid.

We shall soon see.

Then there will be fights, and lots of liberals will quit MacNN.

FOREVER.

Then they will come back.

W will be reelected. They will quit again. FOREVER.