[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

To the same end that the imam would agree and then claim never to have agreed.

Both actions would be difficult to understand. But, it is the pastor telling the story, so the burden is on him to convince us that it's true.

The imam was standing next to him when he said it, and didn't correct it.

[besson3c]

Paster Terry J0nes?

[OAW]

The estranged daughter of a U.S. pastor who has threatened to burn copies of the Koran believes he has gone mad and needs help, she said in a German media interview conducted on Friday.

Emma Jones, who lives in Germany, told Spiegel Online she had e-mailed her father urging him to drop his plan to burn copies of the Islamic holy book, writing: "Dad, leave it be!"

He did not reply, she said.

Facing an outpouring of concern from U.S. leaders and anger from Muslims worldwide, Pastor Terry Jones, of Gainesville, Florida, said on Friday he no longer planned to burn the Koran on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.

But Jones appeared to leave open the possibility he could change his mind if a proposed meeting fails to take place on Saturday in New York with Muslim leaders planning to build an Islamic centre and mosque near the site of the Sept. 11 attacks.

"My father is not one to give up," said Emma Jones, 30. "As a daughter, I see the good-natured core inside him. But I think he needs help."

"I think he has gone mad," she added.

She described how a Christian community her father spent years building in Cologne, Germany was at first Bible-orientated but later changed. After leaving the community aged 17, Emma Jones said she returned in 2005 to find it had become sect-like.

"I saw that my father preached and did things that I didn't find biblical at all. He demanded total allegiance to himself and his second wife," she said. His first wife, her mother, died in 1996.

"That was real religious delusion I saw," she added. "Typical evidence of a sect."

Emma Jones said the community kicked out her father in 2008, when he returned to the United States.

"I really hope he comes to his senses," she said.

Florida pastor's daughter says he needs help | Reuters

Crazy is as crazy does.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

I'm going to run out of popcorn at this rate.

[Doofy]

Of course he needs help. Korans don't shovel themselves onto fires, you know.

[Chongo]

Two wrongs definitely do not make a right.
Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

After defeating their rivals in Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement, Muslim extremists are focusing their attacks on Christians in Gaza City. Christians in Gaza City have issued an appeal to the international community and a plea for protection against the increased attacks by Muslim extremists.

Father Manuel Musallem, head of Gaza's Latin church, told the AP that Muslims have ransacked, burned and looted a school and convent that are part of the Gaza Strip's small Romany Catholic community. He told the AP that crosses were broken, damage was done to a statue of Jesus, and at the Rosary Sister School and nearby convent, prayer books were burned.

Gunmen used the roof of the school during the fighting, and the convent was "desecrated," Mussalem told the AP.

"Nothing happens by mistake these days," he said.
Father Musalam additionally told The Jerusalem Post that the Muslim gunmen used rocket-propeled grenades (RPGs) to blow through the doors of the church and school, before burning Bibles and destroying every cross they could get their hands on.

Catholic Online reports that the heads of Christian churches in the Holy Land have urged both sides to put aside their weapons, noting that the infighting diverted international attention from the national goal of Palestinian independence.

"This domestic fighting where brother draws his weapon against brother is detrimental to all the aspirations of achieving security and stability for the Palestinian people," they said. "In the name of the one and only God as well as in the name of each devastated Palestinian, many of whom are still dying, we urge our brothers in the Fatah and Hamas movements to listen to the voice of reason, truth and wisdom."

One young woman told the Catholic News Service that she was concerned the Islamic extremists would "enforce a strict dress code, forcing women to wear veils and robes." One Christian teenager spoke to the Catholic News Service on the condition that her name not be used. She said the days of fighting had been "very difficult" but they were "OK now."
We all hope it will be better, but it will never ever be good with Hamas," she said.

Approximately 2,500 Christians live in Gaza.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Two wrongs definitely do not make a right.

I agree wholeheartedly.

A religious extremist is a religious extremist is a religious extremist. The problem comes in when people start to look at those with a different religion through the lens of their extremists ... while holding a different standard when it comes to their own.

OAW

[Kerrigan]

The man has a right to burn those Korans.

If he wants to burn them, let him burn them. Every single Muslim in the world could object to this and it still does not infringe upon his right to burn a Koran.

You can talk about the "threat" of angry Muslims self-detonating all over the world in revenge, but 1) they already do this and 2) it is immaterial to his right to express himself as he likes.

Freedom of expression is a two-edged sword, democrats.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

The man has a right to burn those Korans.

If he wants to burn them, let him burn them. Every single Muslim in the world could object to this and it still does not infringe upon his right to burn a Koran.

You can talk about the "threat" of angry Muslims self-detonating all over the world in revenge, but 1) they already do this and 2) it is immaterial to his right to express himself as he likes.

Freedom of expression is a two-edged sword, democrats.

Who is trying to deny his freedom of expression in any way? I don't think this is the issue.

[turtle777]

Although I agree, he has the legal right, but I think that nobody here really disputes this.

The question is, it is morraly right (or good) what he's doing ?

-t

[The Final Dakar]

How many time have people in this thread tried to misdirect the issue? I have yet to see anyone here claim he doesn't have the right to burn those korans.

[OAW]

Indeed he does have the "right". Just as others have the "right" to criticize him for his behavior. And to that end ....

The Florida Christian preacher who has received world fame and condemnation by threatening to burn a pile of Korans demands strict obedience and unpaid labor from his tiny flock and sells used furniture out of his sanctuary, those who know him say.

He was ejected from a church he headed in Germany by his own followers. Even his daughter says she believes he has lost his mind in his fanatical crusade against Islam.

Terry Jones, a previously obscure 58-year-old fundamentalist pastor with slicked-back gray hair and a shaggy mustache, has gained a global pulpit with his proposed burning of Korans, the Islamic holy book.

....

Jones' nondenominational Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, has only a few dozen members.

And until the former hotel manager launched "International Burn a Koran Day" -- which is now on hold -- he was relatively unknown except to his Gainesville neighbors and his former congregation in Cologne, Germany.

His detractors describe a controlling man who preached that working for his obscure church was the only route to salvation and that leaving would bring damnation.

Dove World members live in properties owned by the church or by Jones and his wife Sylvia, and work 40 hours a week as volunteers packing and selling used furniture and merchandise with anti-Islam slogans over the Internet, the Gainesville Sun newspaper said.

Dove World last year lost part of the tax-exempt status that U.S. churches enjoy when the local appraiser determined that part of the property was used as a for-profit business and was therefore subject to taxation.

The church in Gainesville also ran an academy where a half dozen live-in students underwent a three-year program aimed at breaking their pride and teaching them "to humble themselves not only under God's mighty hand but under the hand of man as well," the Gainesville Sun in a report last year quoted Sylvia Jones as saying.

The newspaper in a 2009 report posted an academy rule book, which it said was outdated, that described the school's strict regime.

Students had to follow orders, ask permission to speak, submit to weekly weigh-ins and room inspections, and avoid sweets, alcohol and restaurants, it said. They were forbidden to have romantic relationships or phone or visit family or friends, even if it meant missing weddings and funerals.

Since 2001, Jones had divided his time between Florida and Germany. Parishioners ousted Jones in 2008 from the Christian Community of Cologne, the church he ran in Germany, where he lived for decades. He was booted out because of his radicalism and suspicion of financial abuses, Spiegel Online said.

Andrew Schafer, a Protestant Church official responsible for monitoring sects in the Cologne region, said Jones seemed to have a "delusional personality" and brainwashed his flock.

Anti-Islam pastor called controlling, mad | Reuters

This guy is not only a nutjob it's becoming increasingly clear that he's a two-bit cult leader. Anyone supporting this fool should do some serious introspection and examine their motivations.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

It's a liberal media smear campaign!

[besson3c]

Dems and Libs!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OAW 

This guy is not only a nutjob it's becoming increasingly clear that he's a two-bit cult leader.

OK, so that's enough about Obama.
Now tell us what you think about Jones.

[olePigeon]

After all these years, the Python group still has it. Oh wait, wrong Terry Jones. OK, well, the people threatening war and destruction are just as crazy as the pastor. Religion sucks.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

OK, so that's enough about Obama.
Now tell us what you think about Jones.

-t

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

OK, so that's enough about Obama.
Now tell us what you think about Jones.

Come on now Doofy. You're usually a lot more clever than that. This certainly isn't up to your usual standards of snarkiness.

OAW

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Come on now Doofy. You're usually a lot more clever than that.

More clever would have gone above your head. Sorry, pal.

-t

[The Final Dakar]

There's that famous conservative humor.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

How many time have people in this thread tried to misdirect the issue? I have yet to see anyone here claim he doesn't have the right to burn those korans.

Affirming his right is not a misdirection of the issue. It is simply a reminder that no matter what you think about an individual's choice of self-expression, you may not prohibit that self-expression at all.

Indeed, we are told often that unfettered expression of dissenting views is healthy for a tolerant society, even if those views are not a part of the mainstream of thought.

None of you would beg me to stop if I went outside and filmed myself throwing a math on a stack of Bibles. I might get scant local-news coverage if I burned a stack of Torahs. Why is burning Korans international news, while burning other holy texts is virtually irrelevant?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Affirming his right is not a misdirection of the issue. It is simply a reminder that no matter what you think about an individual's choice of self-expression, you may not prohibit that self-expression at all.

A reminder that is wholly unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Why is burning Korans international news, while burning other holy texts is virtually irrelevant?

I don't know, why don't you tell me?

[OAW]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

A reminder that is wholly unnecessary.

Indeed. A rather keen observation of the obvious.

OAW

[olePigeon]

He has every right to burn a Qur’an in America. I say go for it, it'll weed out all the crazies.

It's news because Americans are afraid of Muslims and it's close to 9/11, so the news media is feeding on that fear to make ratings go up.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

A reminder that is wholly unnecessary.

In view of the fact that this man is receiving death threats and "declarations of war" from Muslims worldwide, I see no reason that reaffirming his basic right is unnecessary or offensive. Even though no one in this discussion wants to deprive him of this right, there are many in this discussion who are giving weight to the arguments put forth by those who would gladly deprive him of this right.

I don't know, why don't you tell me?

I don't know the answer--I'm not the one arguing that Muslim's super-sensitiveness to religious spectacle should be given grave consideration, you are.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

In view of the fact that this man is receiving death threats and "declarations of war" from Muslims worldwide, I see no reason that reaffirming his right is unnecessary or offensive.

None of that is occurring in this thread.

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

I don't know the answer--I'm not the one arguing that their super-sensitivities to religious spectacle should be given grave consideration, you are.

Really? Where did I do that?

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

None of that is occurring in this thread.

Reread the post: "Even though no one in this discussion wants to deprive him of this right, there are many in this discussion who are giving weight to the arguments put forth by those who would gladly deprive him of this right."

Really? Where did I do that?

Oh sorry, I thought you were arguing that the man should not burn Korans because it was offensive to Muslims. I did not realize that you were neutral/in support of this action.

Do you even have a position on the issue that you are willing to state?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Reread the post: "Even though no one in this discussion wants to deprive him of this right, there are many in this discussion who are giving weight to the arguments put forth by those who would gladly deprive him of this right."

That's great. Don't see the point.

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Oh sorry, I thought you were arguing that the man should not burn Korans because it was offensive to Muslims. I did not realize that you were neutral/in support of this action.

Do you even have a position on the issue that you are willing to state?

First reply in the thread.

[Kerrigan]

OK, well done.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

The guy's a douche, his actions are douchy, but I support his right, even if it wouldn't be allowed in Canada.

Latesssssssssssss

[OldManMac]

Looks like the residents of Gainesville are none too pleased with him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/us...er=rss&emc=rss

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

The man has a right to burn those Korans.

If he wants to burn them, let him burn them. Every single Muslim in the world could object to this and it still does not infringe upon his right to burn a Koran.

You can talk about the "threat" of angry Muslims self-detonating all over the world in revenge, but 1) they already do this and 2) it is immaterial to his right to express himself as he likes.

Freedom of expression is a two-edged sword, democrats.

you're absolutely right. I, for one, am looking forward to referencing photos of the book burning Christian extremists the next time people complain about Muslim extremists.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Affirming his right is not a misdirection of the issue. It is simply a reminder that no matter what you think about an individual's choice of self-expression, you may not prohibit that self-expression at all.

who in here has demanded that he be prohibited from making a fool of himself and his followers?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I, for one, am looking forward to referencing photos of the book burning Christian extremists the next time people complain about Muslim extremists.

And I'm looking forward to referencing videos of the head-sawing-off muslim extremists when you reference photos of the book-burning Christian extremists.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And I'm looking forward to referencing videos of the head-sawing-off muslim extremists when you reference photos of the book-burning Christian extremists.

nah ... I'm thinking more like the American flag burning Muslims that are more commonly referenced.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

nah ... I'm thinking more like the American flag burning Muslims that are more commonly referenced.

You mean like the ones who attacked a German-manned NATO post a few hours ago because the cretins can't tell Germans from Amerikkkans? Those guys?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

You mean like the ones who attacked a German-manned NATO post a few hours ago because the cretins can't tell Germans from Amerikkkans? Those guys?

nope. more like the the ones who were dancing in the streets on 9/11.

for the ones you're referencing, I'll just refer you to the American fighter pilots who can't tell Canadian allies from enemy combatants.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

nope. more like the the ones who were dancing in the streets on 9/11.

And they're different how?

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

for the ones you're referencing, I'll just refer you to the American fighter pilots who can't tell Canadian allies from enemy combatants.

I'm betting that they could tell but just wanted to bag some Canuckistanis.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And I'm looking forward to referencing videos of the head-sawing-off muslim extremists when you reference photos of the book-burning Christian extremists.

And I'm looking forward to referencing videos of the dead nurses, doctors, and staff that were murdered by Christians in clinic bombings.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

And I'm looking forward to referencing videos of the dead nurses, doctors, and staff that were murdered by Christians in clinic bombings.

I can't work out whether or not you're defending the decapitators in your rush to have a go at the religion which all libs are programmed to hate.

No proper Christians would bomb clinics. I can put a beret and striped top on but it wouldn't make me a Frenchman.

[besson3c]

Do you realize how difficult it can be to take you seriously sometimes Uncle Doof?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I can't work out whether or not you're defending the decapitators in your rush to have a go at the religion which all libs are programmed to hate.

No, I'm having a go at religion in general.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No proper Christians would bomb clinics.

lol @ your religion. All the others think you're not a real Christian, either.

I think I remember this argument. You said that Catholics aren't real Christians.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Do you realize how difficult it can be to take you seriously sometimes Uncle Doof?

Well hey, you'll have to forgive me for not being too serious. I thought that was the name of the game in this thread? After all, it's about a big kerfuffle over a bloke burning a book or two. Which he hasn't even done. So it's about a bloke saying he's going to burn a book or two.
Kinda hard to take seriously, ain't it?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

No, I'm having a go at religion in general.

Funny that. Can't recall you ever having a go at Sikhism, or Shintoism, or Paganism, or Rastafarianism.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

All the others think you're not a real Christian, either.

Define "all the others".

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I think I remember this argument. You said that Catholics aren't real Christians.

I just love it how there's a big bunch of nutjobs out there from the middle-eastern cult chanting for the death of you and your fellow fatties as we speak... ...and you always turn the argument against the religion which all libs are programmed to hate.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well hey, you'll have to forgive me for not being too serious. I thought that was the name of the game in this thread? After all, it's about a big kerfuffle over a bloke burning a book or two. Which he hasn't even done. So it's about a bloke saying he's going to burn a book or two.
Kinda hard to take seriously, ain't it?

Sorry, your posts didn't register properly on my serious meter. It is a very sensitive serious meter because I'm an intensely serious person, hence my being the head of the ministry of magic.

[screener]

Doofus's is, do, as doofus does.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by screener 

Doofus's is, do, as doofus does.

Fixed. You uneducated 'tard.

[screener]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Fixed. You uneducated 'tard.

Yeah, got to ya doof...

[Doofy]

Yeah, sure.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I can't work out whether or not you're defending the decapitators in your rush to have a go at the religion which all libs are programmed to hate.

I can't work out if you're defending clinic bombings in your rush to have a go at the religion that conservatives are being programed to hate.