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ort888 · Jan 27, 2010, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

When you consider that it's $1000 less than the MacBook Air and beats it handily in portability, the iPad really looks like a steal.

Or the MacBook Air looks really expensive... Which it is.

ort888 · Jan 27, 2010, 10:00 PM

Look at the current lineup for portable computing devices from apple... It's huge

iPod touch
iPhone
iPad
iPad with 3G
Plastic MacBook
MacBook Air
MacBook pro 13"
MacBook pro 15"
MacBook pro 17"

Chuckit · Jan 27, 2010, 11:06 PM

I wouldn't count the two iPads as different devices since one is just the other with a radio stuck in, but yeah.

Andy8 · Jan 27, 2010, 11:08 PM

How does the 3G radio chip cost USD130 per iPad?

-Q- · Jan 27, 2010, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Andy8

How does the 3G radio chip cost USD130 per iPad?

That's what I was wondering. I've read speculation that some of those $$ are a kickback to AT&T for such 'reasonable' data rates. But if the iPad is unlocked that doesn't seem to make sense.

torsoboy · Jan 27, 2010, 11:21 PM

I don't think it can replace a netbook. It doesn't run Microsoft Office, it doesn't play flash (which most online television shows play on), and everything on it has to be specifically coded and built for this one machine. It's a cool thing if you are wanting to buy just the applications that Apple deems worthy for their device, and you want to be limited to iPhone-like applications (small, short, basically glorified gadgets). But it wont replace a real computer. Not in my house anyway.

Sure $500 seems like a great price for something this big, from Apple, but it is really just an enlarged iPod touch, with very limited storage, no camera, no expansion slots, no multi-tasking, and expensive add-ons. Also, for those wanting to buy into the data plan (as if we don't have enough monthly subscription fees to pay already), the price jumps up to a minimum of $629+$30/month. So, using the very bare-bones version of this that allows 3G hookup, plus the monthly subscription fee, it would cost you $989 for the first year. Plus $360 a year from there on out. Quite pricey for the lowest model version.

Granted, it will probably look very cool, and work smoothly, but I wont be able to justify buying another gadget that doesn't seem to do anything that other gadgets don't already do.

And for those of you that complain about flash, I think you're on crack. Or maybe you read too many rant blogs. Flash works fine on my netbook, and on my PC. No lag or delays on hulu, youtube, or any other site that uses flash, and no mentionable artifacts during the video. Maybe if I was trying to render 3D images in the background it would matter that it uses a lot of my processor, but since I don't do that (and neither do most people), I don't give a rat's butt if my processor is being used. That's what it is there for! If I only wanted to use 1/10 of my processing power, I might as well buy a single core Pentium III.

Chuckit · Jan 27, 2010, 11:22 PM

As anyone who has ever BTO'd knows, Apple apparently buys its parts from a universe where things cost much more than they do here.

Laminar · Jan 27, 2010, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

I don't think it can replace a netbook. It doesn't run Microsoft Office, it doesn't play flash (which most online television shows play on), and everything on it has to be specifically coded and built for this one machine.

Have you ever tried using Flash on anything running an Atom? Hint: don't.

Chuckit · Jan 27, 2010, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

I don't think it can replace a netbook. It doesn't run Microsoft Office

It runs iWork, and I guarantee you there will be a bunch more boring word processors by the time this thing hits shelves.

Originally Posted by torsoboy

it doesn't play flash (which most online television shows play on)

I like how you keep blaming Apple for not supporting Flash rather than the TV people for forcing a lousy proprietary plugin on you.

Originally Posted by torsoboy

It's a cool thing if you are wanting to buy just the applications that Apple deems worthy for their device, and you want to be limited to iPhone-like applications (small, short, basically glorified gadgets).

Um, again, iWork ring any bells? Did you see the expanded Mail program? This will not be limited to an iPhone level of simplicity, and that's what makes it cool.

Originally Posted by torsoboy

Sure $500 seems like a great price for something this big, from Apple, but it is really just an enlarged iPod touch, with very limited storage, no camera, no expansion slots, no multi-tasking, and expensive add-ons. Also, for those wanting to buy into the data plan (as if we don't have enough monthly subscription fees to pay already), the price jumps up to a minimum of $629+$30/month. So, using the very bare-bones version of this that allows 3G hookup, plus the monthly subscription fee, it would cost you $989 for the first year. Plus $360 a year from there on out. Quite pricey for the lowest model version.

Those numbers don't mean a lot in isolation. You know a lot of netbooks that offer unlimited 3G access for less than $30/mo?

Originally Posted by torsoboy

And for those of you that complain about flash, I think you're on crack. Or maybe you read too many rant blogs. Flash works fine on my netbook, and on my PC.

You run OS X on those?

Originally Posted by torsoboy

Maybe if I was trying to render 3D images in the background it would matter that it uses a lot of my processor, but since I don't do that (and neither do most people), I don't give a rat's butt if my processor is being used.

Hey, some of us like getting more than 30 minutes battery life. If that's not your thing, cool.

Eug · Jan 27, 2010, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

When you consider that it's $1000 less than the MacBook Air and beats it handily in portability, the iPad really looks like a steal.

Not really. It just confirms the MacBook Air is a complete ripoff.

turtle777 · Jan 27, 2010, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Not really. It just confirms the MacBook Air is a complete ripoff.

Well, it's the premium to have a lightweight portable device that runs OS X.

I bet my balls that people would have complained if the iPad had been running OS X, but was priced similar than the MBA.

-t

Chuckit · Jan 27, 2010, 11:43 PM

Yeah, that's actually what I was getting at. This is what the MBA should have been.

torsoboy · 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I like how you keep blaming Apple for not supporting Flash rather than the TV people for forcing a lousy proprietary plugin on you.

And I like how you keep pushing the blame away from Apple when most others support flash without a problem. And, like I said before, I don't consider flash to be lousy, and neither do the large majority of internet users.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You run OS X on those?

What is the point of that question? This thing doesn't run OS X either. But my devices do run full multi-tasking operating systems, so I guess that's another plus for them over this.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Hey, some of us like getting more than 30 minutes battery life. If that's not your thing, cool.

Wow, if your Apple devices are only getting 30 minutes of battery life while running Flash, you're more screwed than I thought.

Originally Posted by Laminar

Have you ever tried using Flash on anything running an Atom? Hint: don't.

My netbook is actually an HP Mini 1000 (which uses an Atom processor), and it runs Hulu and other flash sites just fine. In fact I just watched two episodes of Chuck on it last night without a hitch. Maybe you should try it before saying it doesn't work?

ANYWAY... the iPad isn't for me. It may be just what you are looking for, and that's cool, but it's not what I am looking for. I was hoping for something innovative, and this just isn't it. Would I play with one if someone I knew bought one? Sure, without a doubt.

turtle777 · Jan 27, 2010, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

My netbook is actually an HP One (which uses an Atom processor)

HP One netbook ? Never heard of it. And neither has Google.

-t

ort888 · Jan 28, 2010, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Andy8

How does the 3G radio chip cost USD130 per iPad?

I think the 3G version also has GPS...

torsoboy · Jan 28, 2010, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

HP One netbook ? Never heard of it. And neither has Google.

-t

Flip. It's an HP Mini 1000. I don't know where the "One" came from.

VetPsychWars · Jan 28, 2010, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

So, it comes down to reading a book on an LCD (IPS panel). I've tried that and the eye strain is pretty bad after a while.

For every one of you, there is one of me, who can read ebooks 12 hours a day on a Palm Treo with no problems.

I'm getting an iPad the instant it comes out and selling my Kindle.

downinflames68 · Jan 28, 2010, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

And for those of you that complain about flash, I think you're on crack. Or maybe you read too many rant blogs. Flash works fine on my netbook, and on my PC. No lag or delays on hulu, youtube, or any other site that uses flash, and no mentionable artifacts during the video. Maybe if I was trying to render 3D images in the background it would matter that it uses a lot of my processor, but since I don't do that (and neither do most people), I don't give a rat's butt if my processor is being used. That's what it is there for! If I only wanted to use 1/10 of my processing power, I might as well buy a single core Pentium III.

Daring Fireball: Apple, Adobe, and Flash

ort888 · Jan 28, 2010, 12:33 AM

Actually watching this thing in action makes it more appealing. I'm not buying this one, but I'm sure I'll be buying one of these in the coming years.

MacinTommy · Jan 28, 2010, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

Actually watching this thing in action makes it more appealing. I'm not buying this one, but I'm sure I'll be buying one of these in the coming years.

You are right about that.. I just watched the keynote and it seems pretty damn cool. I really liked when they demoed the Pages app and moved that giraffe graphic around and the text f"ing automatically wrapped around it!

Lint Police · Jan 28, 2010, 12:59 AM

VOIP over G3 in the SDK. Wowza.

Eug · Jan 28, 2010, 01:03 AM

Think iBooks Looks Familiar? You're Not The Only One.

When Apple was demoing its new iBooks application for the iPad today during their keynote address, I just kept thinking to myself: this simply must have been designed by Delicious Monster, the shop behind the brilliant Mac app Delicious Library. I'm not the only one who thought that either. Delicious Monster founder Wil Shipley thought the same thing. The only problem? His shop didn't make it.

Wiskedjak · Jan 28, 2010, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Think iBooks Looks Familiar? You're Not The Only One.

When Apple was demoing its new iBooks application for the iPad today during their keynote address, I just kept thinking to myself: this simply must have been designed by Delicious Monster, the shop behind the brilliant Mac app Delicious Library. I'm not the only one who thought that either. Delicious Monster founder Wil Shipley thought the same thing. The only problem? His shop didn't make it.

It wouldn't be the first time that Apple stole some little guy's idea.

Shaddim · Jan 28, 2010, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by VetPsychWars

For every one of you, there is one of me, who can read ebooks 12 hours a day on a Palm Treo with no problems.

I'm getting an iPad the instant it comes out and selling my Kindle.

When you get to be my age (almost 40) you'll understand.

Epaper is just better for reading, period.

Simon · Jan 28, 2010, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Yeah, that's actually what I was getting at. This is what the MBA should have been.

Size-wise, yes. But a super-portable notebook still needs a keyboard. Without it it's just a tablet and that's not what I need for work. Also, I want a C2D or Arrandale in my MBA - SL or SU sure, but it has to be a decent CPU. Finally, I don't want a huge bezel. Neither on my MBA, nor on my iPad.

I can see many ways to improve the MBA. This device in no means replaces it. They only people who might believe so are the ones you still haven't understood that the MBA was never meant to be a netbook. Read: it's small, but will never be cheap.

Eug · Jan 28, 2010, 01:35 AM

No, the MBA was never meant to be a netbook. The unfortunate part is that it in some ways is still like one. Slow disk access and limited functionality... but way too big for comfort and way too expensive.

starman · Jan 28, 2010, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

When you get to be my age (almost 40) you'll understand.

Epaper is just better for reading, period.

I'm older than you, and, well, no.

Andy8 · Jan 28, 2010, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

I think the 3G version also has GPS...

I thought the Wifi version used GPS with its Maps application?

Eug · Jan 28, 2010, 01:55 AM

It seems AAPL isn't quite holding up to the hype. It was $215 last week, but now down to $207.

Still, given the iPad's lacklustre introduction, it's holding up better than I expected. I wouldn't have been surprised if a drop below $200 occurred if the iPad didn't blow us away. That it's holding over $205 suggests AAPL investors are a little unsure at this point, hopeful, but not confident.

Simon · Jan 28, 2010, 05:42 AM

What I think would work extremely well with this product and can't be done decently on an iPhone or MBP is a notepad for handwriting. Imagine if you could just jot down notes with a stylus or fingernail, sync these notes to your Mac, and maybe even run some handwriting recognition. Sure Steve hates the stylus, but this device is the ideal size for a notepad. It just comes natural. And it's something you can't really do well on any other Apple product.

Big Mac · 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

As anyone who has ever BTO'd knows, Apple apparently buys its parts from a universe where things cost much more than they do here.

Yeah, it's called Apple Fat Margin Planet.

Gruber had an interesting take on the iPad. He's very impressed, and the thing that he seems most impressed with is the device's speed. He says it's unbelievably fast for this class of computer. He also points on the novel approach Apple took to promoting the iPad's CPU. With the iPhone, although its iterative increases in speed have been heralded, the CPU itself has never been marketed loudly. But with the Apple A4 chip custom designed for the iPad Apple turned on the spotlight. As I said previously, one of the biggest accomplishments of this device from the standpoint of hardware is the CPU simply because it marks Apple debut as its own sole source for the core component, and this chip really delivers the goods.

I wonder if deep within in Apple R&D skunkworks they currently have desktop versions of the A4 running Mac OS X. If Apple had OS X running on Intel for years before the defection, then they almost certainly would have a similar project based on A4. Smart money would bet they do. It's going to be interesting to find out about some of the architectural details of the A4 and what the future holds for this new chip family. This C|NET article has some additional details.

Shaddim · Jan 28, 2010, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by starman

I'm older than you, and, well, no.

and, well, yes, it is.

Ever read a book on an epaper display? Because I've tried reading on both and epaper kicks the s**t out of LCD in that respect.

(I say as I sit reading USA Today on my Kindle.)

freudling · Jan 28, 2010, 06:47 AM

I dislike flash. I have it disabled. I can turn it on at will. The iPad is awesome. It will receive lots of criticism. Eventually everyone will be on board.

Phileas · Jan 28, 2010, 07:06 AM

What we have here is a couple of people who get the big pictures - and it is freaking huge - which is that Apple is exploring the future of how we all are interacting with computing devices. Jobs is a fanatic when it comes to simplification, and the removal of the keyboard is the next logical step.

That's big.

To the others who are complaining about the absence of features, and that includes me myself, I say wait - features will happen. There's be a file system at some time, although it'll probably be different to what we're used to today. There'll be cameras, there'll be ports, there'll be expandability. But that's not as important as the fundamental shift we've seen yesterday.

Phileas · Jan 28, 2010, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Think iBooks Looks Familiar? You're Not The Only One.

Apple hired a bunch of developers from DL. Calling it stealing is a bit harsh. It's a bookshelf, that's all.

OreoCookie · Jan 28, 2010, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

And for those of you that complain about flash, I think you're on crack. Or maybe you read too many rant blogs. Flash works fine on my netbook, and on my PC. ... Maybe if I was trying to render 3D images in the background it would matter that it uses a lot of my processor, but since I don't do that (and neither do most people), I don't give a rat's butt if my processor is being used. That's what it is there for! If I only wanted to use 1/10 of my processing power, I might as well buy a single core Pentium III.

If you're using a mobile Mac, you care. If you run an iPhone/smartphone device, you care even more. Flash is absolutely not needed for video playback. The reason Apple and others push h264 as an alternative is that most of these devices have hardware decoding co-processors tailor-made for h264. That's why the iPad and the iPhone are even able to display h264.

That's not possible with flash. Period. Even if I have the spare cpu cycles (that my imaginary iPhone/iPad don't have), it's annoying, because everything else runs slower on my machine and I can hear the fan.

Also, regarding flash being crappy, most pc users I know complain a lot about flash, too. It's not just in the Apple world that the flash plugin is responsible for most memory leaks and browser crashes. To me, the solution is not to support a crappy way to watch video, but rather force the players to offer flash-free alternatives.

ajprice · Jan 28, 2010, 08:07 AM

My C2D Macbook whines like a hairdryer when a flash page is loaded, as said above, running flash on an Atom chip would not be a good thing on a mobile device. There are other standards out there like CSS, HTML5, jQuery, H264 video etc, that could probably do most of what Flash does but without the plugin and the CPU overhead.

As for the pad itself, I like it. Once iPad specific apps come for it, to replace the enlarged iPhone apps, it will be a nice piece of kit. Its more of a viewer than a creator, but as it links to iTunes on a Mac/PC, its not meant to replace a laptop or desktop computer that people who wanted to would create their stuff on.

Is the iWork for this replacing the Mac iWork, or is it an additional version? An iPad version of iLife apps could be on the way. Its already got iPhoto, if they can convert iWork apps to run on this then they could probably do iWeb, not sure how a converted iMovie or Garageband would run on it though. No iDVD, obviously

.

Other apps and games should get a nice version on it, stuff like Popcap games, Bento, Facebook. I was kind of expecting it to have an SD slot, the SD card connector looks like a one trick pony to get pictures into iPhoto, unless its included for use in the SDK.

Laminar · Jan 28, 2010, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Andy8

I thought the Wifi version used GPS with its Maps application?

I was under the impression that GPS came with 3G only. (Check "Location" on the left side)

Wiskedjak · Jan 28, 2010, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Phileas

Apple hired a bunch of developers from DL. Calling it stealing is a bit harsh. It's a bookshelf, that's all.

The Mac community would be singing a different story if it was Microsoft copying the bookshelf idea from Apple. I don't mind people being inspired from other people's ideas. What I don't like is the double standard.

dedalus · Jan 28, 2010, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Phileas

What we have here is a couple of people who get the big pictures - and it is freaking huge - which is that Apple is exploring the future of how we all are interacting with computing devices. Jobs is a fanatic when it comes to simplification, and the removal of the keyboard is the next logical step.

That's big.

To the others who are complaining about the absence of features, and that includes me myself, I say wait - features will happen. There's be a file system at some time, although it'll probably be different to what we're used to today. There'll be cameras, there'll be ports, there'll be expandability. But that's not as important as the fundamental shift we've seen yesterday.

Exactly.

Like plenty of people, I was initially disappointed that the iPad didn’t live up to my science fiction‑based expectations, but then I realised I’m not really the target market.

All those computing courses they do for grannies, the iPad makes those obsolete. You want your gran to get a ‘computer’, you’ll get her an iPad. Idiot‑proof, not geeky, does everything the normal person might want to do, and it’s fun.

This is the start of next generation computing for the masses.

starman · Jan 28, 2010, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

and, well, yes, it is.

Ever read a book on an epaper display? Because I've tried reading on both and epaper kicks the s**t out of LCD in that respect.

(I say as I sit reading USA Today on my Kindle.)

In your OPINION, right?

ajprice · Jan 28, 2010, 09:54 AM

How well would this work completely standalone though, without syncing it to a Mac or PC with iTunes?

turtle777 · Jan 28, 2010, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I wonder if deep within in Apple R&D skunkworks they currently have desktop versions of the A4 running Mac OS X. If Apple had OS X running on Intel for years before the defection, then they almost certainly would have a similar project based on A4. Smart money would bet they do.

I doubt it, at least at this point.

P. A. Semi's expertise was in low-power silicon for small mobile devices.
That's a completely different market than laptops or desktop computers.

Also, don't forget, for laptops and desktops running in OS X need to interact with a much greater variety of hardware than a closed design like the iPad.

I'm not saying they'll never go there, but I doubt this is something they focus on right now.

-t

ajprice · Jan 28, 2010, 12:08 PM

iPad demonstration video - The iPad from FoD Team UK - Video

Well that was quick! Peter Serafinowicz, who previously did the Mactini and iToilet sketches on his show, as John the Apple Guy.

olePigeon · Jan 28, 2010, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

I don't think it can replace a netbook. It doesn't run Microsoft Office, it doesn't play flash (which most online television shows play on), and everything on it has to be specifically coded and built for this one machine. It's a cool thing if you are wanting to buy just the applications that Apple deems worthy for their device, and you want to be limited to iPhone-like applications (small, short, basically glorified gadgets). But it wont replace a real computer. Not in my house anyway.

Isn't there a version of Office for iPhone? Also, I'm happy it doesn't support Flash. The less devices that support Flash, the faster it'll die a horrible death. Hulu is going to pay-to-view anyway because Comcast bought it and they need to screw more people over. YouTube is moving to HTML5. If only NetFlix can move to HTML5, it'd be pretty good.

turtle777 · Jan 28, 2010, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Isn't there a version of Office for iPhone? Also, I'm happy it doesn't support Flash. The less devices that support Flash, the faster it'll die a horrible death. Hulu is going to pay-to-view anyway because Comcast bought it and they need to screw more people over. YouTube is moving to HTML5. If only NetFlix can move to HTML5, it'd be pretty good.

I'd go even further:

The iPad is going to be a huge success, and therefore, will be a nail in Flash's coffin.

Way to go, Apple. Don't give in.

-t

imitchellg5 · Jan 28, 2010, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

I was under the impression that GPS came with 3G only. (Check "Location" on the left side)

None of them have true GPS... just "assisted" GPS.

ajprice · Jan 28, 2010, 12:57 PM

A-GPS is GPS, it just uses the cell towers to get a fix more quickly - AGPS – not a real GPS? � zen online journal

olePigeon · Jan 28, 2010, 01:18 PM

Every Real Estate agent in the world is going to have an iPad.

OreoCookie · Jan 28, 2010, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I wonder if deep within in Apple R&D skunkworks they currently have desktop versions of the A4 running Mac OS X. If Apple had OS X running on Intel for years before the defection, then they almost certainly would have a similar project based on A4. Smart money would bet they do. It's going to be interesting to find out about some of the architectural details of the A4 and what the future holds for this new chip family. This C|NET article has some additional details.

Count on it. The primary purpose of Project Marklar (OS X on x86) was to keep OS X portable and architecture-independent. And iPhone OS is a variant of OS X that shares a lot of its parts.