[Troll]

The final is being replayed on 6 September anyway. They could just play that game for the Euro and the World Cup. Zidane could come back and go out in the style he should have gone out in.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by paul w

that's the game I wanted, for sure.

Seconded.

-t

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Seconded.

-t

Although Portugal-Italy would have been a nice diving ballet. Kinda like clowns in a circus : falling all over themselves.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Although Portugal-Italy would have been a nice diving ballet. Kinda like clowns in a circus : falling all over themselves.

-t

[badidea]

...and now back to the nice parts of the worldcup!

Hamburg and the blue goals...

[analogika]

Replay the final! Be your own Zizou!

http://linuxteam.at/~philip/zidane.html

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by analogika

Replay the final! Be your own Zizou!
http://linuxteam.at/~philip/zidane.html

-t

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Troll

None of the spectators saw the replay. It is indeed not allowed. Only the 4th referee saw it.

To clarify:

The 4th referee directly saw Zidane's head-butt. Not the replay.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by analogika

The 4th referee directly saw Zidane's head-butt. Not the replay.

So he says. Still quite curious why it took more than 2 minutes from referee#4 to referee#1. They have intercom headsets, mind you, so it just doesn't add up.

-t

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Dirty terrorist son of an Algerian whore?

Sticks and stones. A French win would've hurt a lot more than a headbutt in the sternum.


[What's the MacNN record for the longest thread?]

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

[What's the MacNN record for the longest thread?]

Dunno.

The longest I know of was 25 pages.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=283081&page=1

-t

[d4nth3m4n]

screenshot thread in gui customization is much bigger than 25 pages.

[Macfreak7]

Some more animated goodness..
http://www.dashes.com/anil/2006/07/11/zidane_world_cu

[aberdeenwriter]

...

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

So he says. Still quite curious why it took more than 2 minutes from referee#4 to referee#1. They have intercom headsets, mind you, so it just doesn't add up.

-t

I agree. Besides he still went to the line to talk to his line judge. Thought it was odd...

[aberdeenwriter]

...

[analogika]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...263995,00.html

With him allowing his emotions to rule his behavior I'd say he was FUZZY BRAINED to the very end.

way to go, aberdeen.

You've managed to make a post that is *completely* redundant in the light of what's already been covered in this thread (since both the Times reading AND the Globo reading, which differs, have already been quoted - twice), AND you've managed to be an utterly annoying ****face about it by a) posting nigh the entire article, and b) slipping in some STUPID non-sequitur gleaned from no less idiotic posts in the Pol Lounge.

Next, you'll be ranting about foreign agents, right?

Teh phun-nay.

[analogika]

P.S.: Coffee.

Need coffee.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by analogika

To clarify:

The 4th referee directly saw Zidane's head-butt. Not the replay.

Yeah, so he says. They put a TV right next to the 4th referee and then they say that he isn't supposed to look at it! If he said something over the headset, how come the ref didn't hear it? Doesn't matter because Zidane deserved to be sent off but I think this shows how ridiculous the "We will not use video evidence" thing is.

[badidea]

...and he does it again!

[Nicko]

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Troll

Yeah, so he says. They put a TV right next to the 4th referee and then they say that he isn't supposed to look at it! If he said something over the headset, how come the ref didn't hear it? Doesn't matter because Zidane deserved to be sent off but I think this shows how ridiculous the "We will not use video evidence" thing is.

Yeah, and how is it that the only two times in the history of the Fifa where video evidence was used (banning of Frings) or supposedly used (Zidane), both times Italy was the main beneficiary ?

Honi soit qui mal y pense...

-t

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Yeah, and how is it that the only two times in the history of the Fifa where video evidence was used (banning of Frings) or supposedly used (Zidane), both times Italy was the main beneficiary ?

Honi soit qui mal y pense...

-t

FIFA, UEFA and every national organisation allows for video evidence to find out about something the referee did not see during a game. But the difference is that when they do that it is only after the games and it is not used to influence the game while in play.

That is why this Zidane incident is interesting.



ps. Zizou will say his version of events at 19:00 BST tonight.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

FIFA, UEFA and every national organisation allows for video evidence to find out about something the referee did not see during a game. But the difference is that when they do that it is only after the games and it is not used to influence the game while in play.

That is why this Zidane incident is interesting.

Hmm, interesting.

I read in newpapers that the Frings case was the first were somebody was 'convicted' solely on post-game video evidence. And that evidence was ****. From a two dimensional perspective of the video, you could NOT tell at all if he was hitting the Argentinian or not. And WHY THE F*** did it count as nothing that the Argentinian himself said he was NOT hit. WTF ?

-t

[TETENAL]

Klinsmann resigned.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Klinsmann resigned.

Not shocked.

-t

[analogika]

Löw is taking over, though, so it should be a seamless continuation of Klinsmann's amazing job.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

From a two dimensional perspective of the video, you could NOT tell at all if he was hitting the Argentinian or not.

I don't know what you saw there but for me the hit was clearly visible!!
Not a hard hit though - more like a push with the fist!

[Troll]

The far-right vice-president of the Italian Senate, Roberto Calderoli Tuesday branded the French football team "blacks, Islamists and Communists".

Roberto Calderoli, head of the right-wing popular Northern League party, refused to retract earlier comments in which he hailed Italy's defeat of France in Sunday's World Cup final as "a victory for Italian identity".

"When I say that France's team is composed of blacks, Islamists and Communists, I am saying an objective and evident thing," Calderoli was quoted on Tuesday as saying by the Ansa news agency.

Italy's all-white team, from a largely devout Catholic populace, had won against "a France team which sacrificed its own identity by lining up blacks, Islamists and Communists to get results," Calderoli had said on Sunday.

It's going to be WAR when France plays Italy in Paris on 6 September! That said, this is probably exactly what France needs to find itself. This will draw the various elements of French civil society together - notably the banlieue and the middle classes.

[villalobos]

Well Zizou apologized for the head butt but said not regretting it ("regretting it would be condoning the insults from Materazzi'). He got justly punished for it with the red card. Materazzi will be a hero in his home country (although some italian PMs are calling for an investigation), and will do nothing to improve italian soccer's image in the rest of the world.
And the squadra azzuri will still be the most despised team in the world.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by villalobos

He got justly punished for it with the red card. Materazzi will be a hero in his home country (although some italian PMs are calling for an investigation), and will do nothing to improve italian soccer's image in the rest of the world.
And the squadra azzuri will still be the most despised team in the world.

FIFA is investigating the incident and Zidane's story doesn't jive with Materazzi's. Zidane says that he was purposefully provoked throughout the match and that this was the third time that Materazzi had referred to his family. Zidane says that Materazzi insulted his mother and his sister. Materazzi says he never said anything about Zidane's mother. So FIFA has something to sort out. Hours before the final, Zidane had found out that his mother is very seriously ill, so perhaps he took it a bit harder on that night than on others. In any event, with an investigation on the cards, Materazzi isn't out of the woods yet.

My understanding is that everyone but the hard core Inter fans hated Materazzi before the World Cup and that in Italy he is booed every time he touches the ball. I'm not sure he'll become their hero that easily. This because of his violent track record. Apart from all of the other incidents you've seen on YouTube, the guy was banned in February 2004 for punching a Siena player in the face. Normal you say? Thing is, this happened in the tunnel after the game that Inter had won 4-0 and get this, Materazzi was in the tunnel illegally because he wasn't even selected to play the match in question! In Materazzi's case, you don't even need to provoke him into action. In one season at Everton, he racked up 3 reds and 12 yellow cards. And to top it off, he treats the general public like a bunch of idiots claiming that he doesn't know what an Islamic terrorist even is. This whole thing is developing into a question of integrity, whose story do we believe and for me, Marco Materazzi, with his record, doesn't stand a chance against Zidane.

Italy beat France fair and square. I don't think there's any question about that, but I agree with Zidane that it shouldn't always be only those who react who get punished. People like Materazzi need to be dealt with too. Zidane has apologised for the damage he did for the image of football and Materazzi needs to do the same. What image is he sending to kids by admitting that he insulted Zidane and fouled him? FIFA have punished Zidane and they need to do the same to Materazzi.

[voodoo]

I am sorry, but there is no way FIFA can punish Marco. They have no evidence, no testimony (except Zidane against Materazzi and vice versa).

Nothing will be done more about this incident. For better or worse.

V

[aberdeenwriter]

I'm just irked that some stupid comment which may have been designed to provoke such a response worked to get their best player thrown out and they lose the game because of it. And on top of that, the world actually supports his actions...ney, they PRAISE it!

ESPECIALLY the French!

What a friggin losing message to send kids.

When you are losing the match just commit a blatant foul and the world will sing your praises. And that there IS a justification for violence. And that good sportsmanship is passe.

Dumb.

Speaking of dumb...


Virtual "Zinadine Zidane"

http://mgtu.procentr.org/prikol/zidane.swf

Move your mouse to position "Zidane" and click it to score a "header!"

[Mastrap]

France weren't losing when Zidane headbutted Materazzi.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

France weren't losing when Zidane headbutted Materazzi.

What I think is hilarious about this incident is that Zidane headbutted Marco in the sternum.. that is somehow seriously funny to me

V

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

France weren't losing when Zidane headbutted Materazzi.

I didn't watch the game. I didn't care about the outcome. I knew nothing about the players.

But didn't the penalty kick that Italy was awarded as a result of Zidane's butt win the game for Italy?

He allowed his emotions to overcome his judgment and it likely cost his team the championship.

The part of my post where I hypothesized about a youngster playing in a game and while they are losing deciding to take himself out by committing a foul is based on the idea that players play to win acclaim.

If you can get acclaim by fouling an opponent, even if you lose, then why bother playing so hard?

It will become like the new footballer's "exit strategy!"

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

France weren't losing when Zidane headbutted Materazzi.

Not only that, but Zidane's red card had no effect on the game's outcome whatsoever. Zidane would have made his PK were he still in, and Trezeguet, who was subbed in for Ribery for the sole purpose of shooting a PK, would have still missed.

If blame is to be put on anyone for losing the match, it should be on Trezeguet. You do not miss PKs in the World Cup final match. Have them blocked, but there is no excuse for missing.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by greenamp

Not only that, but Zidane's red card had no effect on the game's outcome whatsoever. Zidane would have made his PK were he still in, and Trezeguet, who was subbed in for Ribery for the sole purpose of shooting a PK, would have still missed.

If blame is to be put on anyone for losing the match, it should be on Trezeguet. You do not miss PKs in the World Cup final match. Have them blocked, but there is no excuse for missing.

This reminds me of a very well publicized example of a world political situation where what is known AFTER the fact is completely immaterial to the decision made AT THE TIME.

When he committed the foul he didn't know whether his services would be needed and crucial to his team or not.

His obligation to his team was to stay on the field while the game was being played. He got himself thrown out and it was PREDICTABLE that he'd be thrown out. It wasn't a borderline judgment call.

He let his team and his fans down.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

I didn't watch the game. I didn't care about the outcome. I knew nothing about the players.

But didn't the penalty kick that Italy was awarded as a result of Zidane's butt win the game for Italy?

You only get a penalty when the foul is committed in the opponent's own goal area. You can see from the video that this didn't happen in France's area! In fact, Italy didn't even get a free kick. The ref used a drop ball and if I recall correctly, France won possession. Zidane's sending off probably had very little effect on the outcome. France dominated the last 10 minutes even with only 10 men and after that, it's just luck really.

I don't know if you've ever played football but having played quite a bit, I can tell you that in a physical game over 100 minutes, even the sanest person can flip out. Do you really think Zidane WANTED to end his career like this? Zidane has apologised to the children watching and made it clear that he was wrong. Now it's time for Materazzi to do the same. Calling someone the son of a terrorist is not part of the game and telling kids they should insult other players is not a message we should be sending to kids either.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

He let his team and his fans down.

This discussion is 100 light years ahead of you, Aberdeen. We KNOW that and we all agree. The question is whether the sanction he got is sufficient or whether FIFA needs to do more against Zidane and the discussion is whether something should be done about the person who admits to fouling and provoking Zidane.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Troll

This discussion is 100 light years ahead of you, Aberdeen. We KNOW that and we all agree. The question is whether the sanction he got is sufficient or whether FIFA needs to do more against Zidane and the discussion is whether something should be done about the person who admits to fouling and provoking Zidane.

Thank you. My apologies. I will head butt myself and draw a red card and be thrown out of the thread, permanently.

After I read your previous post.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Troll

You only get a penalty when the foul is committed in the opponent's own goal area. You can see from the video that this didn't happen in France's area! In fact, Italy didn't even get a free kick. The ref used a drop ball and if I recall correctly, France won possession. Zidane's sending off probably had very little effect on the outcome. France dominated the last 10 minutes even with only 10 men and after that, it's just luck really.

I don't know if you've ever played football but having played quite a bit, I can tell you that in a physical game over 100 minutes, even the sanest person can flip out. Do you really think Zidane WANTED to end his career like this? Zidane has apologised to the children watching and made it clear that he was wrong. Now it's time for Materazzi to do the same. Calling someone the son of a terrorist is not part of the game and telling kids they should insult other players is not a message we should be sending to kids either.

In his appearance on the television station Canal Plus, Zidane apologized to his fans and to the children who watched him receive a red card and get expelled from the game, but said he does not regret his actions.

"I know it happened 10 minutes before the end of my career during the final of the World Cup and that it shouldn't have happened," he said. "But I cannot regret what I did because that would mean that [Materazzi] was right to say what he said.

"There was a serious provocation," added Zidane, who said he had never had any tension with Materazzi before. "My act is not forgivable. But they must also punish the true guilty party, and the guilty party is the one who provokes."

Zidane said the incident started when Materazzi pulled on his shirt. He said he told Materazzi they could exchange shirts later. Things escalated and led to the insult that inspired the head butt that shocked the world.

"They were very hard words, words which touched me very deeply," the 34-year-old midfielder said. "They were very serious and very personal. It concerned my mother and my sister. At first, I tried not to listen, but he kept repeating them two or three times, and then things happened very swiftly. I am a man before anything else.

No. This excuse drives me nuts. Just because YOU do this to me, that gives me the right to do THAT to you???

NO!

I tell you what, from now on every opponent should unleash their most offensive insults on the French players. Using Zidane's rationale the French players will have to respond as Zidane did and the French will lose every game.

Then some bright person will recognize that SELF CONTROL is necessary.

No, there should be no infringement of the right of free speech. That's the LAST thing grown up professional athletes should have to have controlled.

In American football that has been a common way for opponents to beat the guy in front of them on the line. They call him names or his mother or whatever. It gets under his skin if he's not strong. The people who can deny others the power to push their buttons is the winner in life.

If you talk about my mother and I will fight you every time, that gives you tremendous power over me. You can use it to make me your bitch. And all the while I think I'm being A MAN!



What a joke. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." We learned that in first grade.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Troll

The far-right vice-president of the Italian Senate, Roberto Calderoli Tuesday branded the French football team "blacks, Islamists and Communists".

Roberto Calderoli, head of the right-wing popular Northern League party, refused to retract earlier comments in which he hailed Italy's defeat of France in Sunday's World Cup final as "a victory for Italian identity".

"When I say that France's team is composed of blacks, Islamists and Communists, I am saying an objective and evident thing," Calderoli was quoted on Tuesday as saying by the Ansa news agency.

Italy's all-white team, from a largely devout Catholic populace, had won against "a France team which sacrificed its own identity by lining up blacks, Islamists and Communists to get results," Calderoli had said on Sunday.

It's going to be WAR when France plays Italy in Paris on 6 September! That said, this is probably exactly what France needs to find itself. This will draw the various elements of French civil society together - notably the banlieue and the middle classes.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by voodoo

I am sorry, but there is no way FIFA can punish Marco. They have no evidence, no testimony (except Zidane against Materazzi and vice versa).

Nothing will be done more about this incident. For better or worse.

V

They just need to watch the game again with a lip reader (there are professional ones out there).

If they find out what he said and if it fits to what other lip readers have said Materazzi will be in deep......

[Troll]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

No. This excuse drives me nuts. Just because YOU do this to me, that gives me the right to do THAT to you???

NO!

I tell you what, from now on every opponent should unleash their most offensive insults on the French players. Using Zidane's rationale the French players will have to respond as Zidane did and the French will lose every game.

Then some bright person will recognize that SELF CONTROL is necessary.

No, there should be no infringement of the right of free speech. That's the LAST thing grown up professional athletes should have to have controlled.

This is not about free speech. It's a game played according to certain rules. Those rules ban racism amongst other things - and for good cause. Football is a GAME. Racism and religious bigotry has no place in the game. No one needs to be free to use racist or bigotted epithets on a football field. Freedom of speech is about POLITICAL expression. On a football field, you express with your feet and your head, not your mouth.

I do agree with you in one sense - that I never understood the sensitivity some people (notably Southern Europeans and North Africans) have to comments about their mothers or their sisters. I played at a pretty high level and we'd constantly get "Your mother owes me change," and similar jibes. The Portuguese guys would go absolutely nuts at a comment like that. It never fazed me. I think because I knew the guy didn't know my mother so it was just a joke to me. But there are other things that could set me off and no doubt you have buttons too.

I played in a team that was 80-90% Jewish and when one of our opponents told our captain that the dirty jews should watch that gas didn't come out of the showers after the game, the match had to be adandoned because of the violent reaction. I'm normally a VERY placid guy but that set me off and like Zidane, I don't regret getting involved in the fight. What we want to see though is football being played and the players want to play football too. I don't want to watch two guys beating each other up or insulting each other for 90 minutes in an attempt to provoke violence. So FIFA needs (and does have) rules to set limits on what you can say. If those have been broken, then FIFA should take steps.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

No, there should be no infringement of the right of free speech.

Insults belong to the freedom of speech?
Or is "the right of free speech" something else?

You confuse me!

[analogika]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

What a joke. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." We learned that in first grade.

Get back to us when you're out of first grade and have actually participated in a similar, single most important and physically strenuous event of your entire career.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Troll

This is not about free speech. It's a game played according to certain rules. Those rules ban racism amongst other things - and for good cause. Football is a GAME. Racism and religious bigotry has no place in the game. No one needs to be free to use racist or bigotted epithets on a football field. Freedom of speech is about POLITICAL expression. On a football field, you express with your feet and your head, not your mouth.

I do agree with you in one sense - that I never understood the sensitivity some people (notably Southern Europeans and North Africans) have to comments about their mothers or their sisters. I played at a pretty high level and we'd constantly get "Your mother owes me change," and similar jibes. The Portuguese guys would go absolutely nuts at a comment like that. It never fazed me. I think because I knew the guy didn't know my mother so it was just a joke to me. But there are other things that could set me off and no doubt you have buttons too.

I played in a team that was 80-90% Jewish and when one of our opponents told our captain that the dirty jews should watch that gas didn't come out of the showers after the game, the match had to be adandoned because of the violent reaction. I'm normally a VERY placid guy but that set me off and like Zidane, I don't regret getting involved in the fight. What we want to see though is football being played and the players want to play football too. I don't want to watch two guys beating each other up or insulting each other for 90 minutes in an attempt to provoke violence. So FIFA needs (and does have) rules to set limits on what you can say. If those have been broken, then FIFA should take steps.

Well, we could create rules that prohibit insulting other players but, aside from how to enforce that rule...(pause for you to think about that)...think about all the other wonderful rules that could be created to create order in our lives. Why, one day there may be a rule against anything and everything.

The very idea that you are SERIOUSLY talking about trying to control speech (whether in the heat of an athletic match or in the New York Times or on the Telephone or across from the White House) is something I absolutely can not believe.

This is a sign of the world turned topsy-turvy and the end is quickly drawing nigh.



Uh oh, I think I may have violated a rule with this post. I should be ____ carded again.

Real men in the heat of competition swear and play the dozens (talk about opponents' mothers) and we grab ourselves and scratch and spit and hawk loogies and blow snot out of one nostril at a time and wipe the trail on our shirts.

There are many advantages to our society retaining a hardy breed of man. Or at least preserving places where society can't encroach on a quickly diminishing species...the real man.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by badidea

Insults belong to the freedom of speech?
Or is "the right of free speech" something else?

You confuse me!

Here's the key, and I'm not speaking specifically to you badidea...

Don't look to me man, look to your gonads!

See if they are still there!

America is the land where the deer and the antelope play. Where purple mountains majestically loom over amber waves of grain and fruity planes. The America of broad shoulders and straight talking guys who even though they might sleep in the same tent and swap spit, they at least can control their emotions enough to not...

GET THROWN OUT OF THE GAME!!!

Then after the hour and a half of torture and being out of touch with your emotions you can go back to the metro sexual world and play nicely.

Where do you go when you want to be a man and not have to be a girlie man?

The places are dwindling. At a bar/men's club, camping/boating/hiking and playing sports.

And you want to ruin it for the rest of the guys by making the field of sport an artificial environment?

Ok, well soccer isn't that manly a sport anyway so...

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by analogika

Get back to us when you're out of first grade and have actually participated in a similar, single most important and physically strenuous event of your entire career.

I've never gotten myself thrown out by letting another player push my buttons and losing my cool.

Bad coaching. And if he never learned to control his emotions he is giving the big ole A-OK for all the kids of the world to do whatever violence they want because someone called them a bad name or talked about their momma.

Brilliant.

Aren't there ANY adults in FIFA???