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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 128)
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TETENAL
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Jan 24, 2008, 10:43 AM
 
Java games apparently.
     
jokell82
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Jan 24, 2008, 11:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Where did I say it wasn't?

My point is that Blu-ray offers better picture and better sound than DVD. Other than those two things, what more would one want in a new video format to replace DVD (eventually)?
Instant delivery?

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cSurfr
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Jan 24, 2008, 12:24 PM
 
Have any of you Blu Ray owners seen this link? Take some training, and get a free movie. The fiance and I did it, and we're just waiting for ours to arrive (Invincible, and The Prestige)

Welcome to Blu-ray VT.
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Jan 24, 2008, 01:00 PM
 
Sweet, all current HDDVD players will support the new TL51, triple layer 51GB disc.

Take that Bluray. Bluray is so dead.
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Mrjinglesusa
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Jan 24, 2008, 01:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
Instant delivery?
Nope, don't care about "instant" delivery. I prefer physical media until instant delivery can offer 1080p and lossless audio. Not going to happen for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.
     
jokell82
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Jan 24, 2008, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Nope, don't care about "instant" delivery. I prefer physical media until instant delivery can offer 1080p and lossless audio. Not going to happen for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.
For you. It may be that others do care. No one knows just yet as both Blu-Ray and online rentals/purchases are both in their infancy.

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Jan 24, 2008, 02:40 PM
 
     
hyteckit
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Jan 24, 2008, 07:38 PM
 
Lots of movies for around $15 for both Blu-ray and HDDVD. Might be worth it to check it out.

Buy.com - HD and Blu-ray
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Jan 24, 2008, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
I think to upgrade to Blu-ray you don't have to buy new copies of all your old DVD's because the backwards compatibility lets you keep them and the upscaling almost makes it seem like you already upgraded your collection to HD. DVD truly replaced VHS after a while but Blu-ray is a really different proposition because it enhances your old collection of movies rather than making them useless junk. Your new $300 machine gives you a new movie collection rather than forcing you to buy a new movie collection.
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
HD DVD did that as well.
Sorry, you're right of course, but I think you may have missed my point. I was answering the person who said that people will be slow to upgrade to Blu-ray because it doesn't offer enough benefits over DVD to warrant replacing one's entire library as DVD did with VHS. HD-DVD was similar to Blu-ray in most respects.

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Jan 24, 2008, 10:48 PM
 
HD Downloads Not Really HD

ZDNet: HD Downloads Not Really HD

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Mrjinglesusa
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Jan 24, 2008, 11:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
HD Downloads Not Really HD

ZDNet: HD Downloads Not Really HD
i thought we all knew this?
     
goMac
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Jan 24, 2008, 11:50 PM
 
Apple has changed the terms of their 24 hour downloads. They now work like this:

• Within the first 24 hours you can play the movies as many times as you want.
• After 24 hours you can only finish the movie from where you've left off.

So for example, if someone watches half of the movie at hour 18, walks away and comes back at hour 32, he can still watch the second half of the movie. He just can't go back and play the entire movie again.

Time Machinations: Apple Lets You Keep iTunes Video Rentals Longer Than 24 Hours, No Hacks Required
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goMac
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Jan 24, 2008, 11:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
HD Downloads Not Really HD

ZDNet: HD Downloads Not Really HD
I honestly have to wonder what kind of crack that guy is smoking to think that 720p downloads could be offered in the 1.5 Mb/s range.

Apple's files are going to be in the 4.5 Mb/s range btw.
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Jan 24, 2008, 11:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
HD Downloads Not Really HD

ZDNet: HD Downloads Not Really HD
Either he's confused, or he's just trying to be misleading.

I agree the quality of some of the downloads available isn't going to be the greatest, but his reasoning isn't correct.

He states that the bitrate is low, and the resolution is lower than Blu-ray/HD DVD. Except we already know the resolution is lower which should reduce the needed bitrate. Also he talks about broadcast TV's HD's higher bitrate and fails to mention that it's using MPEG2, while Microsoft is using WMV and Apple is using H.264, both of which are several times as efficient as MPEG2 for space.
     
goMac
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Jan 25, 2008, 12:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
He states that the bitrate is low, and the resolution is lower than Blu-ray/HD DVD. Except we already know the resolution is lower which should reduce the needed bitrate. Also he talks about broadcast TV's HD's higher bitrate and fails to mention that it's using MPEG2, while Microsoft is using WMV and Apple is using H.264, both of which are several times as efficient as MPEG2 for space.
Right, it's kind of ridiculous. Bluray has a transfer rate of 36 mb/s, but you have to understand, that's for MPEG2 video at 1080p with uncompressed 7.1 audio. MPEG2 files are huge. At 720p, 4.5 Mb/s H.264 is very good quality.

He quotes 1.5 Mb/s for 720p video. 1.5 Mb/s is low for 720p... 2.5 Mb/s sounds more likely, and you'd only find that on places like ABC's free streaming...
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Jan 25, 2008, 12:09 AM
 
From some posts on AVS from people definitely more knowledgeable than me, it seems that aTV downloads will be similar or even better quality than broadcast HD. Something to do with the 2 pass encoding done for the videos vs. the on the fly mpeg2 encoding...

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Jan 25, 2008, 12:12 AM
 
Reasonable 720p (although not as artifact free as Blu-ray/HD DVD) would be around 6-7 Mbps, or about 50 MB per minute. IOW, reasonable 720p WMV/H.264 is about the same bitrate as MPEG2 DVD.

At that bitrate, a 100 minute movie would be 5 GB. Apple's downloads are probably slightly lower than that, but nowhere near as bad as the guy is claiming.

BTW, the HD torrents out there are about 2ish GB for a 90 minute movie IIRC. Those do suck IMO, but are "good enough" for average joe-bootlegger for HD.
     
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Jan 25, 2008, 01:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
At that bitrate, a 100 minute movie would be 5 GB. Apple's downloads are probably slightly lower than that, but nowhere near as bad as the guy is claiming.
We'll see. My values I came up with calculated the bitrate based on a 4 gig file at 120 minutes. It might be a little low. It's likely that 120 minute movie from Apple might be 5 or 6 gigs. A 120 minute movie on XBox Live is certainly more around 6 gigs with VC1.
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Jan 25, 2008, 02:16 AM
 
NPD: Sky Isn't Falling for HD-DVD, Blu-ray Isn't Champ Yet -- DailyGame

01/24/08

Sales data for HD-DVD and Blu-ray players and movies has been misconstrued lately by various outlets, with reports implying that HD-DVD sales have fallen at an amazing pace while Blu-ray sales have blasted through the roof.
Not so fast, says the NPD Group.

While select articles have implied that HD-DVD as a format is doomed and the sky is falling for the format's supporters, the NPD Group this afternoon reinforced that sales results from a single week do not necessarily indicate a trend, and that the week in question had several intriguing variables that have gone unreported.

The NPD Group attempted to quiet the storm of online scuttlebutt with the following statement:

"As you may have seen, there are attempts being made to portray NPD's weekly sales tracking figures for next generation DVD as a trend. We want to remind you and make clear that it is not accurate to make long term assumptions based on one week of sales -- a cautionary point that NPD has made as well.

"The facts are that during the week that is being singled out, both Blu-ray disc players and software were being given away for free with the purchase of 1080p TVs. It is also important to note that the instant rebate promotions that had previously netted Toshiba's players' MSRPs to $199 and $249 had actually ended on Jan. 5th -- causing an increase in HD DVD's MSRP back to $299 and $399 during that same week. Since Toshiba's retail price move on Jan. 13th to $149 / $199 -- Toshiba is seeing very positive sales trends at retail. This reinforces the fact that price is a significant driver of sales.

"Toshiba's HD DVD players represent a significant value to the consumer and the marketing campaign that just began is proving effective."



BetaNews | NPD: Free Blu-ray player deals led to boosted sales this month

January 24, 2008, 2:46 PM

A report from NPD Group claimed Blu-ray standalone player sales accounted for 93 percent of the high-def market for the week ending January 12, but NPD itself won't stand behind the numbers, saying they were leaked and that weekly sales data is not a long-term indicator.

According to Stephen Baker, vice president of industry analysis for NPD, the data "came from an NPD subscriber" and "wasn't approved for release from NPD." He added that the firm typically sees big fluctuations in sales volumes each week, and never makes long-term judgements based on weekly data.

"It reflects what was going on during that week," Baker said, adding that it wasn't smart to "extrapolate that out for six months.

"So what went on the week ending January 12 that led to such high numbers in Blu-ray standalone player sales? Bundling deals with HDTVs, explained Baker. Sharp Blu-ray players accounted for over 30% of sales, as they were offered free to buyers of the company's LCD televisions.

Sony -- also accounting for one-third of sales -- had a similar $400-off deal for Blu-ray players when buying a Sony HDTV.

Panasonic, like Sharp, offered a free Blu-ray player and made up for the remaining third of units sold. Samsung Blu-ray sales were almost non-existent, as the company did not offer any special deals to TV buyers.

The NPD figures did not include Sony's PlayStation 3 or Microsoft's HD DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 -- only standalone players.

Baker wouldn't get specific -- since NPD normally never even comments on weekly sales data -- but said there was some drop in HD DVD player sales. For its part, the HD DVD Promotional Group told BetaNews the weekly sales data was from before the HD DVD player price drop Toshiba announced last week.

Baker did provide BetaNews some insight as to how NPD counts sales. It receives its data from point-of-sale systems from a number of retail outlets across the United States. He would not say how many retailers send data to NPD, but said it was "double digits."

NPD's numbers do not include online sales from the likes of Amazon, where Toshiba's HD-A3 HD DVD player is the number one seller in the DVD player category and number 14 in all of electronics. By contrast, standalone Blu-ray players do not make the electronics list.



Originally Posted by goMac View Post
We'll see. My values I came up with calculated the bitrate based on a 4 gig file at 120 minutes. It might be a little low. It's likely that 120 minute movie from Apple might be 5 or 6 gigs. A 120 minute movie on XBox Live is certainly more around 6 gigs with VC1.
Well, H.264 is not more space efficient than WMV, and my guess is that Apple will aim for quality close to what is offered on Xbox Live.

So, I suspect that a 120 minute movie will be a little under 5 GB (after considering the limitations of the hardware). Thus, your 2.5 Mbps number sounds way too low. It's probably twice that. That makes sense because AppleTV supports main profile H.264 at 720p at 5 Mbps.

5 Mbps x 60 sec x 120 min = 36000 Mbits = 4500 MB for a 2 hour movie, which is right around what Apple was talking about for movies.
( Last edited by Eug; Jan 25, 2008 at 02:38 AM. )
     
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Jan 25, 2008, 03:53 AM
 
Eug, do you display this level of partisanship when you make investments? IE, would you actually gamble your own money on a slow, losing horse in a two horse race?
     
goMac
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Jan 25, 2008, 04:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Eug, do you display this level of partisanship when you make investments? IE, would you actually gamble your own money on a slow, losing horse in a two horse race?
Well that was kind of uncalled for. Eug is just posting the news. He's already said he's buying a Bluray player when they hit the right price.
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Jan 25, 2008, 04:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
So, I suspect that a 120 minute movie will be a little under 5 GB (after considering the limitations of the hardware). Thus, your 2.5 Mbps number sounds way too low. It's probably twice that. That makes sense because AppleTV supports main profile H.264 at 720p at 5 Mbps.=
Right, I didn't mean to imply that Apple would use 2.5 Mb/s for their movies. I used that as an example of what you'd find on something like ABC's online 720p player.
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Jan 25, 2008, 07:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
NPD: Sky Isn't Falling for HD-DVD, Blu-ray Isn't Champ Yet -- DailyGame

Since Toshiba's retail price move on Jan. 13th to $149 / $199 -- Toshiba is seeing very positive sales trends at retail. This reinforces the fact that price is a significant driver of sales.
I know corporations don't have a conscience and business is business, but at this point they almost seem like they are trying to trick the clueless public into buying into a dead format. I don't know what I expect them to do but it reminds me of the ads I see warning people that analog TVs won't work in a year. True the HDDVD players will still work, but it seems like people should be warned that only a few studios if any will still be making movies that play on them within a year. Just think how pissed people were, here in this thread, that knew the whole situation, when they found out they'd bought into a dead format.... imagine how pissed clueless BestBuy and Walmart customers are going to be when they find out they bought in after the war was already over. Maybe Toshiba doesn't have a to warn anybody to keep selling their product but if I ran a retail outfit I'd sure warn my customers and at least make sure they're aware of the BluRay format's victory and the near-certain future of HD-DVD, just to fend off future lawsuits if nothing else.

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Jan 25, 2008, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Eug, do you display this level of partisanship when you make investments? IE, would you actually gamble your own money on a slow, losing horse in a two horse race?
If you're think buying into hi-def is anything comparable to an investment then I don't know what to say.

These are luxury items, not investments, just like my subwoofer I just bought is a luxury item and not an investment.

The smart money says to keep your money out of it, and stick to DVD. I'm doing the doubly stupid thing, and buying both hi-def formats (although I'm waiting for Blu-ray to mature some more and drop in price before I buy into it). This intent was stated here last year as a matter of fact.

P.S. Are you now disputing NPD's own statements? I'm just posting the format war news, in a format war thread. In fact, IIRC, I was the first person to post the Warner Blu-ray news. Oh and here's another article I've come across about the NPD subject:

NPD Confirms Huge Blu-ray Share Jump - 1/24/2008 8:51:00 AM - TWICE

According to retail point-of-sale data (sell-through to consumers) that NPD would release publicly for the week ending Jan. 12, Blu-ray player sales accounted for 90 percent of unit and dollar share, compared with 7 percent unit share and 4 percent dollar share for HD DVD players. The remaining share went to Blu-ray/HD DVD combo players.

Leading brands in the category during that period were: Sony (34 percent unit share, 32 percent dollar share); Panasonic (27 percent unit share, 30 percent dollar share), Sharp (23 percent unit share, 22 percent dollar share), Toshiba (7 percent unit share, 4 percent dollar share), Samsung (6 percent unit share, 6 percent dollar share) and LG (2 percent unit share, 4 percent dollar share).

Commenting on the numbers, Jodi Sally, Toshiba Digital A/V Group marketing VP said: “We all know that it is not accurate to make long-term assumptions based on one week of sales. In fact, putting it into perspective, during that specific week, it’s important to recognize that the instant rebate promotions that had previously netted our players’ manufacturer’s suggested retail prices (MSRPs) to $199 and $249, had actually ended on Jan. 5th - causing an increase in our MSRPs back to $299 and $399.

“Since Toshiba’s retail price move on Jan. 13th to $149/$199 – we are seeing very positive sales results at retail,” she continued. “All of our consumer research and our experience indicates that retail price is the primary motivating factor in consumers’ purchasing habits and we are confident that Toshiba’s HD DVD players represent a significant value to the consumer.”

But Andy Parsons, Blu-ray Disc Association Promotions Committee chairman and Pioneer Electronics USA new product development senior VP, respectfully disagreed with NPD’s assessment of the results: “If [running successful promotions] were that easy, don’t they think we would have done it a long time ago? It’s not like we haven’t tried it before… It may be true that the promotions helped, but we believe everyone has gotten the message quite clearly through the press, and Blu-ray has taken a huge jump forward from the Warner announcement.”



Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
I know corporations don't have a conscience and business is business, but at this point they almost seem like they are trying to trick the clueless public into buying into a dead format. I don't know what I expect them to do but it reminds me of the ads I see warning people that analog TVs won't work in a year. True the HDDVD players will still work, but it seems like people should be warned that only a few studios if any will still be making movies that play on them within a year. Just think how pissed people were, here in this thread, that knew the whole situation, when they found out they'd bought into a dead format.... imagine how pissed clueless BestBuy and Walmart customers are going to be when they find out they bought in after the war was already over. Maybe Toshiba doesn't have a to warn anybody to keep selling their product but if I ran a retail outfit I'd sure warn my customers and at least make sure they're aware of the BluRay format's victory and the near-certain future of HD-DVD, just to fend off future lawsuits if nothing else.
Lawsuits?

Sure you can answer honestly if your customer asks, but to be honest you sound like that obnoxious Best Buy drone that told me it was stupid to buy an Xbox 360 because the PS3 would rule all.

OTOH, if someone asks me I will tell them the truth. HD DVD is at a serious disadvantage now in the war. The best they can hope for is that they'll stick around but even that is looking tough for them. However, if you're getting an HD DVD player for $149, you're still getting an excellent deal, since it is a great HD DVD player, a good DVD upscaling player, and it comes with a bunch of free movies, several of which are not available on other format.

If $149 is hard on your pocketbook, then don't buy anything. However, if $149 isn't hard on your pocketbook, then most definitely consider spending it on an HD DVD player (esp. if you need a new movie player anyway).
( Last edited by Eug; Jan 25, 2008 at 10:19 AM. )
     
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Jan 25, 2008, 10:05 AM
 
HD DVD is starting to sound like Mustafa (Will Ferrell) in Austin Powers, right after he's been thrown in the Flame Pit.

Mustafa (HD DVD): "Somebody help me!"
Mustafa (HD DVD): "I'm alive, only very badly burned!"
Mustafa (HD DVD): "If someone opens the retrieval hatch, I can get out,"
The hatch opens...
GUNSHOT!
Mustafa (HD DVD): "you shot me!"
Mustafa (HD DVD): "You shot me right in the arm!"
Mustafa (HD DVD): "Why did you..."
GUNSHOT!

The end!
     
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Jan 25, 2008, 10:33 AM
 
Wow, looks like both Blu-ray and HDDVD is going to be a niche. Both Blu-ray and HDDVD sales are down for January. If the hidef format doesn't gain steam this year, it will be forever a niche.

Bill Hunt of digitalbit purposely hide the sales numbers for both Blu-ray and HDDVD, in order to give the impression that Blu-ray sales are somehow through the roof. Luckily, NPD puts Bill Hunt in his place.
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Jan 25, 2008, 10:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
NPD: Sky Isn't Falling for HD-DVD, Blu-ray Isn't Champ Yet -- DailyGame

[i]01/24/08

Sales data for HD-DVD and Blu-ray players and movies has been misconstrued lately by various outlets, with reports implying that HD-DVD sales have fallen at an amazing pace while Blu-ray sales have blasted through the roof.
Not so fast, says the NPD Group.
Yeah, whatever.

Perception is reality.

HD DVD might not be dead YET, but it will be soon.

-t
     
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Jan 25, 2008, 01:05 PM
 
Sony shrinks Blu-ray lasers, drives cost down - News - Tech.co.uk

Developed jointly with Nichia of Japan, the new laser unit is just 3mm thick and should help manufacturers miniaturise the hardware in their Blu-ray drives. Sony says it imagines the device ending up in 9.5mm laptop drives sometime this year.

So, perhaps there might be Mac laptops with Blu-ray burners at Macworld 2009.
     
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Jan 25, 2008, 01:15 PM
 
So do you even read the thread anymore? Or just pop in to post links already posted (one of which is in the post directly above yours)?

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Jan 25, 2008, 01:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
So do you even read the thread anymore? Or just pop in to post links already posted (one of which is in the post directly above yours)?
Lets see, 128 pages of gomac rambling on about 20 different irrelevant things and I am going to notice every little link?

Do I get a spanking for the horrible sin of posting 2 min after a last person because I had the reply box open before they even posted it?

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Jan 25, 2008, 01:32 PM
 
Heh. The NPD link was the discussion of the last several posts, all today, and all on this page.
     
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Jan 25, 2008, 01:44 PM
 
The NPD data shows you what a niche market the hidef format currently is. Warner announcement causes a big drop in HDDVD sales, down to under 2000 units.
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Jan 25, 2008, 02:04 PM
 
It's a niche BECAUSE of the conflict and back and forth. I'm sure the sales would be different if there was just one format. Once one is 'officially' dead, then we will see where it goes. You have a lot of people on the fence waiting to see what happens still. You have promos for players and movies going on as well, for both. Customer confusion is having an effect, not to mention you have retailers that are still going to try to push both, so all these factors play into effect. If Paramount and Universal jump ship, then there is no reason for retailers to stock much. Once the shelf space is one format in general and there is no customer confusion I think we will see better sales of HD media in general. For now its all a wait and see for a lot of the general people because you get mixed messages with both being around.
     
Eug
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Jan 25, 2008, 02:54 PM
 
RC Article: First Full-Function Infrared Control for the Sony PS3 (1)

Interesting hack: The guy modified his PS3 remote so that it RECEIVES infrared commands from universal remotes, and then converts those infrared commands into Bluetooth. Everything now works, including power.

The only caveat is that the PS3 remote has to be in line-of-sight of the IR remote you're using.

Well, there is another caveat. You can't actually buy one. This is just a prototype.
     
jokell82
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Jan 25, 2008, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
RC Article: First Full-Function Infrared Control for the Sony PS3 (1)

Interesting hack: The guy modified his PS3 remote so that it RECEIVES infrared commands from universal remotes, and then converts those infrared commands into Bluetooth. Everything now works, including power.

The only caveat is that the PS3 remote has to be in line-of-sight of the IR remote you're using.

Well, there is another caveat. You can't actually buy one. This is just a prototype.
That's actually a very cool solution! Wouldn't be too bad to hide the PS3 remote in the entertainment center somewhere. Just sucks you can't buy one.

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
Shaddim
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Jan 25, 2008, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by dlefebvre View Post
HD DVD is starting to sound like Mustafa (Will Ferrell) in Austin Powers, right after he's been thrown in the Flame Pit.

Mustafa (HD DVD): "Somebody help me!"
Mustafa (HD DVD): "I'm alive, only very badly burned!"
Mustafa (HD DVD): "If someone opens the retrieval hatch, I can get out,"
The hatch opens...
GUNSHOT!
Mustafa (HD DVD): "you shot me!"
Mustafa (HD DVD): "You shot me right in the arm!"
Mustafa (HD DVD): "Why did you..."
GUNSHOT!

The end!
Actually, HD-DVD = Boris the Blade.
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Dakar the Fourth
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Jan 25, 2008, 04:56 PM
 
I'll show you, I'll go take a piss...
     
Eug
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Jan 25, 2008, 06:50 PM
 
Latest hi-def software sales numbers: 83 : 17
     
jokell82
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Jan 25, 2008, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Latest hi-def software sales numbers: 83 : 17
So HD DVD is on an upward trend and Blu-Ray is trending down? Looks like the end of the road for Blu-Ray.

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
hyteckit
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Jan 25, 2008, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
So HD DVD is on an upward trend and Blu-Ray is trending down? Looks like the end of the road for Blu-Ray.
Dude, wait for next weeks standalone sales number. Marketshare for the blu-ray standalone players sales will drop like a brick.
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analogue SPRINKLES
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Jan 25, 2008, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Latest hi-def software sales numbers: 83 : 17

Wow and I thought retailers might start removing HD from shelves in 3 months but at this rate it might come much faster.

Strange how all the current HD owners stopped purchasing movies though. The general attitude here was they were happy with the investment and would continue to buy movies.
     
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Jan 26, 2008, 03:34 AM
 
I wrote before in this thread that the format that Apple would choose would win (much to the annoyance of Apple supporting HD DVD fans) - but I admit I failed to consider option 3.

The insanity of Steve Jobs.

On-line movie rentals. Not this decade Mr. Jobs. Not this decade.

V
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Jan 26, 2008, 03:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
On-line movie rentals. Not this decade Mr. Jobs. Not this decade.
Apple is increasingly US-centric. As they adopt new technologies, they base their plans on what's available in the states.

Just think yourself lucky they still sell Macs outside America.
     
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Jan 26, 2008, 03:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
If you're think buying into hi-def is anything comparable to an investment then I don't know what to say.

These are luxury items, not investments, just like my subwoofer I just bought is a luxury item and not an investment.
That analogy doesn't quite make sense, because you don't seem to be displaying the same level of enthusiasm or interest towards subwoofers that you do towards HDDVD. What I am asking is, if real money were at stake, would you still be behind HDDVD? Would you continue to put effort or initiative into a trivial lost cause? Or would you cut your losses and admit your format lost? This is not especially directed at you, but at the HD crowd in general.
     
voodoo
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Jan 26, 2008, 04:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Face Ache View Post
Apple is increasingly US-centric. As they adopt new technologies, they base their plans on what's available in the states.

Just think yourself lucky they still sell Macs outside America.
Agreed.. we are kindly allowed to pay a tithe just for the privilege

(as Macs are generally considerably more expensive outside the US - taxes and tolls excluded)

V
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Eug
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Jan 26, 2008, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
That analogy doesn't quite make sense, because you don't seem to be displaying the same level of enthusiasm or interest towards subwoofers that you do towards HDDVD. What I am asking is, if real money were at stake, would you still be behind HDDVD? Would you continue to put effort or initiative into a trivial lost cause? Or would you cut your losses and admit your format lost? This is not especially directed at you, but at the HD crowd in general.
You still don't get it. The point is there is not big money at stake here, at least if you bought HD DVD.

I waited until an HD DVD player was $199 before I bought. I am waiting for the same for a Blu-ray Profile 1.1 player.

If these players were $1000 (or even $500), I'd have stayed away.

P.S. I spent WAY, WAY more money on my subwoofer, and I already own one.
     
goMac
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Jan 26, 2008, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
I wrote before in this thread that the format that Apple would choose would win (much to the annoyance of Apple supporting HD DVD fans) - but I admit I failed to consider option 3.
And I believe that I replied that the most likely option was that they would do neither in favor of iTunes.
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Jan 26, 2008, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
You still don't get it. The point is there is not big money at stake here, at least if you bought HD DVD.

I waited until an HD DVD player was $199 before I bought. I am waiting for the same for a Blu-ray Profile 1.1 player.
And you still don't get it. Movie sales drive the market. People are willing to spend thousands of dollars on a decent HDTV that will last them a while. HD DVD players vary in price based on features and performance. With Blu-ray, the profiles are a way of having product segmentation among different player models. If you don't give a crap about Pip, then you can save money on a Profile 1.0 player or you can pay a little more for a profile 1.1 player if you want pip. Not all TV's support pip through dual tuners so why do you expect all players to have all the same features?

Profile 1.1 standalone players are available for under 300 dollars and you are likely to save on the cost of titles that difference between 199 and the cost of the player after buying say 10 movies on blu-ray through sales and promotions. Unless you plan on only renting, your point is moot and renters are really not going to make a difference at all in this war.

Hardware sales only benefit the one CE while movie "sales" as opposed to rentals provide a direct benefit to the studios which drive the market and adoption. Content is king.
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Jan 26, 2008, 02:45 PM
 
I think the people portraying Eug as some kind of die-hard HD-DVD zealot probably haven't been reading the thread very long.
     
 
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