[starman]

Specifically, for Japanese? I'd like opinions on it.

[olePigeon]

Ditto. I took 2 years of Italian and I'm forgetting it all. Wanted to pick back up on it without taking classes. I don't trust the infomercials.

[RAILhead]

It's working for me (Italian).

[residentEvil]

another thread was just started about this too; don't know if the answer you want is in there though...

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...eign-language/

[imitchellg5]

My Spanish teacher encouraged us last year to pick it up to help us grow in our fluency (I hope that's a word) of Spanish in the summer. I haven't used it, but I've heard that it works very well.

[MacosNerd]

Well the commercial says it works and they don't lie

Serious, I'm interested in this also, actually for the same language. Japanese. I'd like to that and German.

[RobOnTheCape]

M wife has been using it for Brazilian Portuguese and has been very impressed by how quickly she's been able to pick up on the language. I know she'd give it big thumbs up.

[osiris]

I've been having difficulty with Japanese for a couple of years now. I can read it better than I can speak it (which isn't saying much, though it is a tortuous language with little rationale behind it other than to confuse and harass non-native speakers with a pyramid scheme of grammar and a dysfunctional myriad of counting methods) doh..

Those Rosetta commercials make it look a little too easy. Amazon has 1 & 2 for $295. This may be the ticket.

Ooh, they have English - both kinds.
Amazon.com: Rosetta Stone: Software

[alligator]

I'm going to try it for Italian, I'm just waiting for a tax return to come in to help offset the cost. Gotta wait a few more weeks.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by osiris 

Ooh, they have English - both kinds.

American and Wrong?

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by osiris 

I've been having difficulty with Japanese for a couple of years now. I can read it better than I can speak it (which isn't saying much, though it is a tortuous language with little rationale behind it other than to confuse and harass non-native speakers with a pyramid scheme of grammar and a dysfunctional myriad of counting methods) doh..

Those Rosetta commercials make it look a little too easy. Amazon has 1 & 2 for $295. This may be the ticket.

Ooh, they have English - both kinds.
Amazon.com: Rosetta Stone: Software

Good to know that there's a language you don't pick up easily. I was beginning to think you were like that chick on Enterprise.

[starman]

I had a lot of trouble with Japanese until it 'clicked', at least as far as sentence structure goes. There's still a lot to learn, but if you "unlearn" the "subject-verb-object" that you learn from English, it'll help.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

Good to know that there's a language you don't pick up easily. I was beginning to think you were like that chick on Enterprise.

You may be thinking of Oisin.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

You may be thinking of Oisin.

Indeed I was. No beer before posting

[starman]

Ok, for those of you that use RS, what makes it good? How do they approach teaching it?

[osiris]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

Good to know that there's a language you don't pick up easily. I was beginning to think you were like that chick on Enterprise.

What chick on Enterprise?

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

American and Wrong?

I think there be three kindz of English - English (British), American English, and Canadian English.

[driven]

The chick on Enterprise is Yoshi.

I own the Thai and Korean versions of Rosetta Stone. I've had good success with the Thai version. (They only have level 1 though and not level 2). The Korean version isn't quite as good. The instructor talks too fast. You are supposed to listen and repeat. I can't repeat the Korean version nearly as well.

[osiris]

I think Korean has similar grammatical structure to Japanese, perhaps equally as difiicult.

[Tiresias]

I think Korean has similar grammatical structure to Japanese, perhaps equally as difiicult.

I don't know about Japanese but Korean is a Subject-Object-Verb (SOV) language. And yes, it's insanely difficult. They have tenses for expressing age differences, and a swarm of Sino-Korean cognates. I'm having the same problem as the OP in another part of Asia.

[Big Mac]

I've seen a bit of how Rosetta Stone works, and I think the Pimselur Approach is probably a better choice for most people trying to learn a new language from scratch.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

Good to know that there's a language you don't pick up easily. I was beginning to think you were like that chick on Enterprise.

I haven’t tried learning Japanese (yet), so I don’t know how difficult I’ll find it; but the smatterings of grammar and vocabulary I’ve picked up from talks with students of the language have all seemed rather complex, but not illogical.

It’s probably among the next languages I’ll be trying my hand at, though (probably as part of my next BA in a couple of years).


And just so I’m not completely off-topic: I’ve never actually tried the Rosetta Stone—or Pimsleur. My ex tried the Pimsleur for Italian for a couple of weeks before we went there last summer, but he didn’t learn much (he tried it—and failed there, too—with Danish as well, as a substitute for taking proper Danish lessons). It seemed to focus mainly on basic vocabulary, which is fine for some kinds of learners, but not good for others. Personally, I wouldn’t learn a thing from that. I’d learn to be able to decode the language the same way I can decode Japanese: very incompletely, because I only understand the Kanji, and have to guess what fits in where in the sentence, without any structural information.

What method does the Rosetta Stone focus on? I’m toying with the idea of trying to learn a bit of Japanese beforehand (i.e., before taking actual Japanese lessons at uni), but I’d need a system that’s mainly grammar-based, at least to begin with, otherwise I’d probably tire of it.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Tiresias 

I don't know about Japanese but Korean is a Subject-Object-Verb (SOV) language. And yes, it's insanely difficult. They have tenses for expressing age differences, and a swarm of Sino-Korean cognates. I'm having the same problem as the OP in another part of Asia.

You’re making me want to learn Korean, now

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I was beginning to think you were like that chick on Enterprise.

Really hot and doable?

[starman]

Maybe we need a "Rosetta Stone for Japanese Support Group"

[Dakar the Fourth]

I think what we really need is a Hoshi appreciation thread.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Really hot and doable?

Well, I don’t know about osiris, but that certainly describes me to a t.

[cSurfr]

I think the program is a waste of time. It doesn't teach you how to speak the language as much as it does how to ask for "a man standing next to a plane", etc. You'd have better luck just picking it up on your own.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by cSurfr 

I think the program is a waste of time. It doesn't teach you how to speak the language as much as it does how to ask for "a man standing next to a plane", etc. You'd have better luck just picking it up on your own.

Wow, you sound like someone who has never used it.

[starman]

Originally Posted by cSurfr 

I think the program is a waste of time. It doesn't teach you how to speak the language as much as it does how to ask for "a man standing next to a plane", etc. You'd have better luck just picking it up on your own.

I can't just "pick it up". What am I supposed to do, hang out at Yohan Plaza in Edgewater every night begging for phrases?

[cSurfr]

Originally Posted by starman 

I can't just "pick it up". What am I supposed to do, hang out at Yohan Plaza in Edgewater every night begging for phrases?

That would suit you better than Rosetta Stone. Seriously, try the demo. The program is all hype.

[starman]

Even if what you say is true, there aren't many alternatives, except maybe japanesepod101.com which I didn't like much.

[cSurfr]

Originally Posted by starman 

Even if what you say is true, there aren't many alternatives, except maybe japanesepod101.com which I didn't like much.

Believe me, it's true

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Really hot and doable?

Well, I may be hot and doable, and may even be an alien, but I am not a chick.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by cSurfr 

That would suit you better than Rosetta Stone. Seriously, try the demo. The program is all hype.

I checked the demo out - total immersion.. feh... I think it is just a 'survival' language course, which still has purposes.

Grammar and stuff are intrinsic to learning a language for real.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by osiris 

Well, I may be hot and doable, and may even be an alien, but I am not a chick.

That is a deal breaker. And to think I was considering negotiating a truce.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

That is a deal breaker. And to think I was considering negotiating a truce.

I thought we already had a truce?
The number of dead bodies on my front lawn has decreased over the past few weeks, did they simply vanish?
Either that or those large bear-like footprints are more telling than I first anticipated.

[Oisín]

^ + ^^

I checked the demo out - total immersion.. feh... I think it is just a 'survival' language course, which still has purposes.

Grammar and stuff are intrinsic to learning a language for real.

I just checked out the demo, too. It’s a good way to learn how to build phrases, but a bad way to learn to use a language securely and fluently, since it doesn’t teach you the grammar and doesn’t expose you to the language constantly and intensely enough for you to pick up grammatical irregularities by yourself (this might be different at higher levels, of course, the demo says nothing about that).

But still. Just from that demo, I learned a few useful words in Turkish, I learned that verbs in the third person singular tend to end in -yor, and that the plural seems to be formed simply by adding the suffix -lar (which I happened to know—one of the only things I knew about Turkish—is the suffix for pluralising nouns, too). That’s pretty good for a few minutes.

I can imagine that, for many people, this way of learning a language is far more intuitive and rewarding than learning grammar and such things. I’m not one of them, but for many people, it is.

[starman]

So if this isn't good, then what is?

[Big Mac]

See my post above.

[starman]

Ran over to B&N and picked up the cheap Pim Japanese CD set. I'll report back.

[RAILhead]

So you people are looking at the little demo on the RS web site and basing your opinions on the entire suite?

Please.

Check out the downloads page under the Version 3 Course Contents, and you can download PDFs that show you the different things you'll learn. OBVIOUSLY this isn't a be-all end-all in language learning, but seeing as how I live in Texas and I don't have any fluently speaking Italians all around me from which to "pick up" the language, RS will suit me nicely in assisting me while I travel.

[starman]

I saw those PDFs and there's nothing there that really explains much. It looks more like a "read along". If you can explain why it's good, I'd appreciate it because I just don't want to blow $300 on crap.

[Oisín]

So you people are looking at the little demo on the RS web site and basing your opinions on the entire suite?

I did add the note that I didn’t know whether my impressions were accurate higher up in the system.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by starman 

I saw those PDFs and there's nothing there that really explains much. It looks more like a "read along". If you can explain why it's good, I'd appreciate it because I just don't want to blow $300 on crap.

Those PDFs show you what you will be learning throughout the lessons. It's not a miracle worker, of course. But it's not like someone said earlier where you learn how to say "the man stands by the plane" or whatever. You learn parts of the language, the words, the grammar, etc., but you still have to assemble your own sentences.

RS gives you the foundation upon which to better learn the language. No, RS isn't comparable to spending 3 years in class learning a language -- but it does a great job of rapidly teaching you the gist and core foundations of the language. With this foundation, if you understood everything you learned, you have no problem stringing together a sentence.

Also, if you look at what each Level is for, it's only Level 3 that gets you to the point of being able to carry on a conversation with a native speaker to where you can express opinions, feelings, ideas, etc. Levels 1 & 2 are the groundwork.

[RAILhead]

Level 1 – Build A Foundation
Build a foundation of fundamental vocabulary and essential language structure. Gain the confidence to master basic conversational skills, including greetings and introductions, simple questions and answers, shopping and much more.

Level 2 – Navigate Your Surroundings
Navigate your surroundings as you build on the vocabulary and essential language structure in Level 1. Learn to talk about your environment, such as giving and getting directions, using transportation, telling time, dining out, enjoying basic social interactions and much more.

Level 3 – Connect With The World
Connect with the world around you by building on the language fundamentals and conversational skills you developed in Levels 1 and 2. Learn to share your ideas and opinions, express your feelings and talk about everyday life, your interests, your work, current events, and much more.

[starman]

First impression of Pimsleur:

CD1, lesson 1 was ok. It throws you right into a conversation you can't understand if you know nothing about Japanese and breaks it down. I suppose this is good if you need to get around Japan, you learn the important stuff first.

It doesn't break down the difference between wakarimasu and wakarimasen so far as conjugating goes. It just says one is "I understand", the other is "I don't understand". I don't know if conjugations will play a part in later lessons.

It doesn't explain the difference between 'wa' and 'ga'.

It breaks the words down backwards. I don't get that.

It's hard for me to gauge how well someone who's never studied it will do with the lesson because I understood it all already.

I'll reserve judgment until I get through it all.

EDIT: To be fair, I'm not sure what kind of language instruction would work for ME. Everyone's different. Maybe RS is great. I'll try it when I get home.

[Oisín]

It breaks the words down backwards. I don't get that.

If my knowledge of Japanese word structure holds, that’s the easiest way to do it, since the last parts of a word are likely to be suffixes and particles. Get those out of the way, and you have the root itself. This is quite a common way to do it with highly inflected languages.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I think what we really need is a Hoshi appreciation thread.

I was going to say that we had one-the Hot Babes thread-but Linda Park's picture is on the dreaded and unviewable Page 51 of that thread.

[starman]

Ok, so Pimsleur's OK. Not great. I wanted to try the online Japanese tutorial on RosettaStone.com but it works with Shockwave, not Flash, so I can't get it to work. I was poking around japanesepod101.com and it seems pretty reasonable for what you get from it. For $60/year you seem to get access to a lot of good material.