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Nep2ne · Jan 10, 2003, 09:59 AM

Hey
I just noticed that PowerLogix (I believe) has a new 800MHz upgrade for the B&W ... however, it is a G3.

I've been waiting on speeds greater than a G4/550MHz for my B&W, but am DREADING the fact that an ancient PCI 7200 can get an 800MHz G4 while I'm still waiting... I love the B&W for it's expandability and 100MHz bus. I don't want to sell this guy as it's been a rock solid performer for the past 3+ years (and the only computer I've ever owned (in 20+ years) for that long). I know it has more life left!

Anyone have any info on when, or even IF, we'll see G4 upgrades greater than 550MHz for B&W machines?

Thanks in advance.

cocamix · Jan 10, 2003, 10:09 AM

Yeah, that royally sucks. I guess there is a valid reason why it's unfeasible, but that doesn't make it suck any less for Beige and B&W owners like me.

pman68 · Jan 10, 2003, 02:52 PM

Yep. It's the end of G4 upgrades. Here's what Powerlogix had to say:

"PowerLogix is also proud to announce the highest performance for older PowerMacs, by introducing the fastest ever ZIF upgrade. Compatible with the PowerMac G3 Beige, Blue and White, and original PCI PowerMac G4, the economical PowerMac G3 800 ZIF features an IBM 750FX running at 800MHz with 512K of cache running at a blazing 800MHz. Its great performance at a very economical price will be sure to please many owners of these machines who have been desiring faster CPU performance for some time. The vast majority of mainstream applications still do not take advantage of Altivec, and therefore having greater clock speed for tasks that are used most often will extend the life of these machines well into the future. (Faster G4 ZIFs, although theoretically possible, are impractical due to the extensive and costly engineering required to design around a motherboard chipset incompatibility on these machines. This incompatibility was first discovered by PowerLogix engineers 18 months ago, presented to and confirmed by Motorola.)"

Nep2ne · Jan 10, 2003, 05:19 PM

...what apps beside Photoshop, Illustrator, Final Cut, etc. actually take advantage of Altivec?

...Is it _really_ that necessary to go G4 at all, if all I do is some gaming, email, coding, etc.

G4 speeds would be nice, but if it's not essential, it's not essential. That 800MHz runs only $299. I can only assume that in six months, I'll save about $50 or so.

Questions, questions...........

Avon · Jan 10, 2003, 07:10 PM

I just got my father a 400 mhz B&W G3. Its a pretty quick machine and I am quite happy with it.

I don't believe in upgrading macs anymore though. A G3 is worth around 400 bucks. A Dual 867 costs 1700 bucks. With G4 accelerators costing $800 and $1200 it simply does not make sense to upgrade any G3 or a low end G4.

Selling the G3 gives you 400 bucks towards the purchase of a dual 867. This is the best route in my opinion unless you can double the speed of the G3 cheaply.

Nep2ne · Jan 12, 2003, 01:27 AM

Upgrades used to be much more viable and affordable than they are today (it seems). I remember getting a 350MHz G3 upgrade for a 7600/120 back in the day for around $200 or so. To double the performance/speed of that machine for that little was astounding.

Avon, at least you can "upgrade" to a 550MHz -- that is much more of a significant jump than for me (with an overclocked G3/450 running at 500Mhz). It's too bad, but it looks like this machine will not go any faster than 550Mhz ... ever!

But with that chip, it might give it a couple more years.

Avon · Jan 13, 2003, 01:46 AM

I also had a PCI mac with an upgrade. It was a 7500 and I upgraded to a 300 mhz G3. Wow was it fast at the time. IT was the fastest PPC BeOS machine i have ever used! Paid very little for the upgrade. under 300 I belive.

This is the last machine I ever upgraded. The video card presented problmes with then new processor and it simply was not as stable as it used to be.

Some current processor upgrades also have compatibility problems as stated on Xlr8.com. In my opinion is simply not worth it unless you have a cube or something cool you want just for kicks. A new DP867 over a processor upgrade just makes o much more sense, considering the ridiculous cost of some upgrades.

The new Powerlogix PowerMac G3 800 ZIF is priced at 300 bucks. Not bad at all. Id consider this upgrade as long as there are no compatibility issues.

Powerbook · Jan 13, 2003, 09:56 AM

I thought:
Apple released a ROM-"Update", that prevented any G4-upgrades to work in G3 machines?!?! Did they took that back?

PB.

cocamix · Jan 13, 2003, 10:07 AM

Nope. There's a firmware update to enable G4 processors in Blue and White G3's but there's nothing preventing them from being used.

Eriamjh · Jan 13, 2003, 12:14 PM

The basic problem is the lack of a ZIF form-factor for the G4. It's probably better to sell your machine and buy new/slightly new/newly used. You get many advantages for just a little more cash outlay.

A G3 800 should perform smoothly in OS9. It's OSX that needs the G4.

And I'm surprised the Powerlogix G3-800 only has 512K of cache. Wouldn't 2MB give a decent performace boost or is that typical of G3s?

I think the best system to continue upgrading is the Cube. With 1GHz G4s out there, they can live a long fruitful life running modern apps.

tooki · Jan 13, 2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by cocamix:
Nope. There's a firmware update to enable G4 processors in Blue and White G3's but there's nothing preventing them from being used.

No, Powerbook is right: Apple released a firmware update for the B&W G3s to make G4 chips not work in them.

tooki

cocamix · Jan 13, 2003, 02:17 PM

And Powerlogix released an update to get them to work.
http://www.powerlogix.com/support2/faq/pfg4zif/#qz6

Are you saying they initailly worked, then Apple released an update to disable them, THEN Powerlogix released another update to get them to work again?

Screwy, if true.

Taipan · Jan 13, 2003, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Nep2ne:
...what apps beside Photoshop, Illustrator, Final Cut, etc. actually take advantage of Altivec?

Hi!
Doesn't OS X itself take advantage of Altivec?

cocamix · Jan 15, 2003, 04:20 PM

I just got an e-mail from PowerLogix. Shipping time on the 800MHz G3 zif is 4-6 weeks.

It's gonna be hard to wait. I sold my 550 G3 zif in hopes that it would be out sooner and I'm stuck on my original 300. Serves me right, I guess.

a2daj · Jan 15, 2003, 08:10 PM

Anyone else remember when first G3 upgrade cards were $1300 for a 266/183? And $2199 for a 275/275 upgrade?
Nowadays you can get a dual 1.20 G4 for about that much.

Nep2ne · Jan 15, 2003, 09:37 PM

Of course OS X itself takes advantage of Altivec. Duhr, I feel dumb.

OWC is selling a G4/450 "upgrade" for around $160.00; am debating getting this only for the advantages I'd get out of Altivec.

I'm in OS X 90% of the time these days anyway...

cocamix · Jan 15, 2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by a2daj:
Anyone else remember when first G3 upgrade cards were $1300 for a 266/183? And $2199 for a 275/275 upgrade?
Nowadays you can get a dual 1.20 G4 for about that much.

That doesn't seem right. Are you sure it wasn't the 466 cards that were that much? Remember, the very first beige G3 was a 233. Who in their right mind would pay $1300 for a 33Mhz speed gain?

I do remember when the fastest upgrades possible were that much though.
Hell, I remember when a Mac IIfx was $10,000.

Hash · Jan 16, 2003, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by Nep2ne:
Of course OS X itself takes advantage of Altivec. Duhr, I feel dumb.

OWC is selling a G4/450 "upgrade" for around $160.00; am debating getting this only for the advantages I'd get out of Altivec.

I'm in OS X 90% of the time these days anyway...

I am using for almost two years now Powerlogix 550 ZIF which really nicely overclocks to 650 mhz. Thats said, my BW was initially G3 350. Yes, i saw real speed boost going from 350 to 550-650. I would say that new G3 800 is very VERY tempting for me. Since G3 800 is same as in newest iBooks and that owners report good speed, with ATI Radeon 7000 and fast 7200 rpm hard drive, BW should fly in OS X with 800 mhz G3, irrelevant of Altivec.

cocamix · Jan 16, 2003, 09:35 AM

I agree, I'm very anxious to get one of the G3 800's as only a few of my regular used apps are AltiVec enhanced, while the majority of them are not.
And what exactly about OS X takes advantage of Altivec except enhanced apps? Is the Finder and Altivec application?

a2daj · Jan 16, 2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by cocamix:
That doesn't seem right. Are you sure it wasn't the 466 cards that were that much? Remember, the very first beige G3 was a 233. Who in their right mind would pay $1300 for a 33Mhz speed gain?

I do remember when the fastest upgrades possible were that much though.
Hell, I remember when a Mac IIfx was $10,000.

No, the 466 cards where never in the $1000 range for consumers as I recall.

The upgrades weren't for the platinum G3s. They were for the older machines like the 7300s and up, 8500s and up, and the 9500s and up.

The prices for the 266/183 and 275/275 are mentioned near the bottoms of each page under Final Analysis:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/maxpowr_pro.html

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/maxpowr_pro275f.html

Troubles · Jan 18, 2003, 02:42 AM

The class action suit by some G3 owners is one reason that Apple has been responding to the G3 problems of the past year.
In the second release of OSX, Apple declared that it would not support the G3 in its OSX from that point forward (this may be only G3's prior to Yosemity), bringing about a class action suit which is in progress today.
I believe Apple uses Morrison&Forester (sp?)
and the class action is via King & Ferlauto of Los Angeles.javascript:smilie('

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