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Truepop · Sep 1, 2004, 05:39 PM

http://beta.music.msn.com/

I can't read it. the coloring of grey on grey hurts my eyes.

dodo_nutter · Sep 1, 2004, 05:45 PM

Can't they come up with there own ideas for once??

xi_hyperon · Sep 1, 2004, 05:51 PM

Talk about a BLAND layout.

ManOfSteal · Sep 1, 2004, 05:56 PM

Clutter.

Powaqqatsi · Sep 1, 2004, 06:04 PM

*yawn*

dodo_nutter · Sep 1, 2004, 06:18 PM

Glad to see were all M$ fans here!

CD Hanks · Sep 1, 2004, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by dodo_nutter:
Glad to see were all M$ fans here!

Given the fact this place is called "Macintosh News Network", did anyone honestly expect there to be a postive reply?

Lamb to the slaughter...

edit: Wow, they've actually got a fairly big, and nicely stocked catalog...

MacMan4000 · Sep 1, 2004, 06:25 PM

looks like somthing that came out of my butt

Truepop · Sep 1, 2004, 06:31 PM

Didn't Steven Jobs say when they opened the iTMS euro that people have tried Web based stores but it didn't work? why is MS going to try it?

wataru · Sep 1, 2004, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by dodo_nutter:
Can't they come up with there own ideas for once??

their

CD Hanks · Sep 1, 2004, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Truepop:
Didn't Steven Jobs say when they opened the iTMS euro that people have tried Web based stores but it didn't work? why is MS going to try it?

Because MS has greater control and knowledge of how WMP is integrated with IE.

Yose · Sep 1, 2004, 07:16 PM

It looks like a good effort by MS. Comparing it to iTunes it operates in a similar way and information is easy to find on the page. One saving grace of iTunes MS is how you can browse by music only... none of the graphical fluff of either store. iTunes MS also works on multiple platforms and it seems this is a Windows only sort of deal - but who is suprised?

I'd say it's an alright attempt at a music store considering they have such a great example to copy.

John R. Smith · Sep 1, 2004, 07:21 PM

i want to be able to buy music from any online store and play it on my iPod.. I don't care much whether or not iTMS is surpassed by other stores in terms of ease of use and selection

olePigeon · Sep 1, 2004, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
Because MS has greater control and knowledge of how WMP is integrated with IE.

Which makes exploiting one MS product, an exploit for every MS product. It's a unified architecture!

thePurpleGiant · Sep 1, 2004, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Truepop:
Didn't Steven Jobs say when they opened the iTMS euro that people have tried Web based stores but it didn't work? why is MS going to try it?

It's not that they _don't_ work, it's just that they're no where near as elegant as when integrated like iTMS. Just requires more effort on the user's behalf to download in a web browser, then play in a media player...

CD Hanks · Sep 1, 2004, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by John R. Smith:
i want to be able to buy music from any online store and play it on my iPod.. I don't care much whether or not iTMS is surpassed by other stores in terms of ease of use and selection

You are a ****ing idiot.

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Which makes exploiting one MS product, an exploit for every MS product. It's a unified architecture!

This is getting harder and harder. SP2 has made inroads with implementing (quietly) DEP.

JohnSmith68 · Sep 1, 2004, 08:25 PM

I think that the MSN music store is also inferior to the Real Networks store, which allows me to DL music and put it on my iPod.

spacefreak · Sep 1, 2004, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Truepop:
[url]I can't read it. the coloring of grey on grey hurts my eyes.

Yup... they need to darken that gray a tinge. Then again, they're probably designing for Windows gamma.

amsalpemkcus · Sep 1, 2004, 09:21 PM

asswipe!

http://beta.tv.msn.com/

Brass · Sep 1, 2004, 09:27 PM

Aqua-esque style buttons is interesting.

iNub · Sep 1, 2004, 09:31 PM

It looks exactly like I'd expect it to coming from Microsoft. Lots like Windows Media Player.

spatterson · Sep 1, 2004, 10:04 PM

you got to be s***ing me... Is there one thing that M$ won't try and invade.

DeathToWindows · Sep 1, 2004, 10:05 PM

vomiting smiley please

theolein · Sep 1, 2004, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
You are a ****ing idiot.

Well, that makes two of you, then.

theolein · Sep 1, 2004, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Yose:
It looks like a good effort by MS. Comparing it to iTunes it operates in a similar way and information is easy to find on the page. One saving grace of iTunes MS is how you can browse by music only... none of the graphical fluff of either store. iTunes MS also works on multiple platforms and it seems this is a Windows only sort of deal - but who is suprised?

I'd say it's an alright attempt at a music store considering they have such a great example to copy.

I agree. It is a good effort, and they definitely have a (theoretical) point that their player (WMP10) allows you to get music from numerous different stores and play it on numerous different devices. I say theoretical because it is oh so fu�king broingly obvious what MS is trying to do: The old embrace and extend thing. They make the store and player compatible with every joe and his mom in the beginning.... until they bring out their own player device (coming soon, already been announced), and then they slowly start introducing incompatibilities in song format etc. In the end it will only be the msn store that works with the media player and only MS-DRM songs that work with the MS player device.

I don't know of a single company that has survived being in the same software market on windows that MS is competing in.

Nevertheless, I'm sure that it will be at least a medium success, simply because MS has such a huge installed base. While the web based format might be a bit of a drudge, the layout is ok and I'm sure that enough people will give it a go that iTunes on Windows might have a tough time competing. However, given that you need iTunes for the iPod, and that the iPod is the major player in the market, it might take MS some years to finally make any sort of profit from this and their guaranteed to be crap player device. MS usually gets it right round about the third time round, but they have the money for that.

ManOfSteal · Sep 1, 2004, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by DeathToWindows:
vomiting smiley please

As requested:

TailsToo · Sep 1, 2004, 11:30 PM

Has anyone looked at what you (might) have to do to make the darn thing work:

I'll stick with iTunes, thanks!

Requirements

starman · Sep 1, 2004, 11:38 PM

It doesn't have AC/DC either, so how much better could it be?

The site looks like ass.

Mike

olePigeon · Sep 2, 2004, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
You are a ****ing idiot.
This is getting harder and harder. SP2 has made inroads with implementing (quietly) DEP.

Hehe. It's ActiveX hell. The built in Firewall was suppose to be this huge thing, except that it's directly controlled by ActiveX... which means someone will write some malicious script, and the second you hit that webpage, there goes your firewall!

CD Hanks · Sep 2, 2004, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Hehe. It's ActiveX hell. The built in Firewall was suppose to be this huge thing, except that it's directly controlled by ActiveX... which means someone will write some malicious script, and the second you hit that webpage, there goes your firewall!

So...I mention DEP...and you talk about the firewall.

Okay...

Paco500 · Sep 2, 2004, 01:58 AM

Well this is annoying. The first 2 artists I looked for (as I have been waiting for iTMS to carry more of their catalogs) Van Morrison and Peter Gabriel, have much more matieral at MSN. Why is this? I'm sure there are plenty of examples of iTMS beating out MSN, but dammit, these are the poeple I like.

Maybe this means more will show up on iTMS soon. I can only hope.

CD Hanks · Sep 2, 2004, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by Paco500:
Maybe this means more will show up on iTMS soon. I can only hope.

Indeed! It seems like a lot of people have missed an important point about this whole thing: it will spur competition. And competition is typically really good for us, consumers.

Superchicken · Sep 2, 2004, 02:59 AM

http://beta.music.msn.com/album/?album=32406353

They rated the top switchfoot song getting tons of air time as a 4 star song, yet set the next track which is not as good, and not near as popular as a 5 star song... WHAT THE HECK!? Granted I'm not even as big of a fan of Beautiful Letdown as I was of New Way To Be Human or Learning To Breathe, but come on!

Anyway, doesn't look all that bad, least it's not a blatantly blatant rip off like buy music.

That said, they were saying that they wanted to end up all over the world blah blah etc. Requires US credit card. AWESOME! gah...

Oh well...

forkies · 03:27 AM

Originally posted by starman:
The site looks like ass.

i agree. it's just kinda boring/plain and is not compelling in the least...certainly something one wants to avoid in commerce.

i did some searching; even the rights are similar:

from http://beta.music.msn.com/help/about
"Generous rights: MSN Music allows you to play your music on up to five Windows PCs, burn playlists to CD up to seven times, and transfer to an unlimited number of portable audio devices."

from http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/legal/terms.html
"You shall be authorized to use the Products on five Apple-authorized devices at any time...You shall be authorized to burn a playlist up to seven times. You shall be able to store Products from up to five different Accounts on certain devices, such as an iPod and iPod mini, at a time."

Truepop · Sep 2, 2004, 08:23 AM

Here a Q and A between Seattle times and some microsoft folks.

Truepop · Sep 2, 2004, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
http://beta.music.msn.com/album/?album=32406353

They rated the top switchfoot song getting tons of air time as a 4 star song, yet set the next track which is not as good, and not near as popular as a 5 star song... WHAT THE HECK!? Granted I'm not even as big of a fan of Beautiful Letdown as I was of New Way To Be Human or Learning To Breathe, but come on!

all the songs on there are album only and the album cost 10.89. I can understand most of Apple's album only tracks because they are mainly over 7 or 8 minutes but those are standard song length.

I would think that songs with a ton of radio play would be sold as a single. This kind of defeats the purpose of selling songs over the internet.

Chris O'Brien · Sep 2, 2004, 08:59 AM

From the Q and A article that Truepop linked to:

Q. Is this something Microsoft decided to do because of Apple and iTunes?

A. We definitely would have done this on our own. We were on a path already to provide great music services and so the Apple effort didn't really change what we would have done.

<snip>

Q. Why not the first out?

A. Apple had already gotten out before we had even thought about doing our own particular service. We weren't going to be first regardless.

Am I reading that wrong, or are those two answers in contradiction?

storer · Sep 2, 2004, 09:06 AM

God, somebody please shoot microsofts web development department designer...

amsalpemkcus · Sep 2, 2004, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Black Book:
From the Q and A article that Truepop linked to:
Q. Is this something Microsoft decided to do because of Apple and iTunes?

A. We definitely would have done this on our own. We were on a path already to provide great music services and Apple approached us for help with creating the technology. Apple couldnt have done this without our extensive help.

<snip>

Q. Why not the first out?

A. Apple needs to be helped. They are a small but very promising company that microsoft cares for. So we helped them go in first so that we will emulate the ideas better eventually and capture the market with our muscle and reach.

Am I reading that wrong, or are those two answers in contradiction?

Fixed

dodo_nutter · Sep 2, 2004, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by wataru:
their

Sorry, always seem to do that!!

york28 · Sep 2, 2004, 10:31 AM

I must be the only one that likes the layout. It is simple, devoid of ads, and basically to the point. Colors could be more compelling, but the site seems perfectly functional. It's very easy to find content. And "Grey on grey"? Almost the whole site is blue text on light grey or white- not really that hard to read, although it is lower contrast than iTunes. Fire the web designers? I'd give them an award for making a site that is really easy to navigate, and easy on the eyes.

Major downside is that the whole thing requires MS software to run. As in most of the links don't do anything on Firefox. Alas.

Just because it's from Microsoft doesn't mean it sucks. Well, maybe it usually does. But in any case, this site isn't as bad MacHeads make it out to be.

Truepop · Sep 2, 2004, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Black Book:
Am I reading that wrong, or are those two answers in contradiction?

I thought that too but figured what they meant with they were on the path already to provide great music services was they were thinking about DRM and licensing of technology so even if the music stores they license to fail they would have still made money. then a year ago they thought they needed to have their own store.

I would hate to see Napster and such be pushed out of the market by the MSN Music store. they licensed the technology from Big M and now napster is in competition with its technology provider. that would be a tough spot to be in I think. Microsoft is in a position to screw over everyone not using iTMS even the companies like Napster. I guess Real customers would also be excluded from the screwing but Apple will take care of that.

theolein · Sep 2, 2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
So...I mention DEP...and you talk about the firewall.

Okay...

DEP is not going to help anyone unless it is specifically supported both by the CPU and by the software, which is not the case in the majority of currently used Intel and AMD CPUs.

olePigeon · Sep 2, 2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
So...I mention DEP...and you talk about the firewall.

Okay...

Because if ActiveX isn't covered by DEP (and it won't, because it's Microsoft and everything will be using ActiveX) then the Firewall (which would work in tandem with DEP to keep trojans from running amuck) can easily be disabled, making DEP useless.

Well, until Intel makes a chip that won't let you run anything without their permission. I'm sure everyone will love that.

olePigeon · Sep 2, 2004, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by dodo_nutter:
Sorry, always seem to do that!!

Use a spell checker.

theolein · Sep 2, 2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by TailsToo:
Has anyone looked at what you (might) have to do to make the darn thing work:

I'll stick with iTunes, thanks!

Requirements

Exactly. There was a recent article on slashdot about the fact that the SP2 firewall is controlable from an ActiveX component. That, in combination with the fact that you have to explicitly allow both cross-domain scripting and the installation of ActiveX controls means that this is yet another MS security hole waiting to be exploited, and it will, I can almost guarantee that.

I really don't understand MS. They so consitently undermine their own attempts at security, it is simply not funny. When the first exploit based on a fake MS Music site hits the wild, there is going to be the usual outrage and flood of MS security patches. And what is so ironic is that even then the usual MS astroturfers will be claiming how good MS is and all.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 2, 2004, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Use a spell checker.

Does Safari do grandma check?

TheJoshu · Sep 2, 2004, 11:48 AM

I don't know what the hubbub is about. These stores are all pretty much identical.

york28 · Sep 2, 2004, 12:10 PM

I believe the easy thing to do is have the security center in XPSP2 say that the firewall is active when it is not, and vice versa. But this has nothing to do with actually activating/disabling it. Or did I miss something in all those articles about SP2 security?

Mediaman_12 · Sep 2, 2004, 02:18 PM

Maybe this isn't the main frontend? Has anybody seen WMP 10 yet, maybe it has an iTunes style music store 'button' this would use Windows' OS wide IE integration to open this address (in a similar way to how iTMS uses XML) in the player. If it does this they will offer full 'Store>App>player' integration.