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Hawkeye_a · 07:33 PM

If Iran does manage to develop nuclear warheads, transport them through Syria and Palestine or even deploy them on missiles. Would Israel have the capasity to fend off an attack from Lebanon, Syria, the-refugees-by-choice, and Iran ?

It's admirable that the U.S. is going with the diplomatic route now (frankly the American forces are spread too thin as it is imo). It appears as though the U.S. is hoping that Israel "takes care of" the issue (the way they did in Iraq before).

Having said that i know that the IDF is probably the best military orginization this world has seen..... but a nuclear warhead is a different ball game. I just hope the rest of the free world will offer support to Israel if the U.N. and U.S. are preoccupied.

Thoughts ? Comments ?

Big Mac · Apr 19, 2007, 12:24 PM

No matter what, the rest of the world will condemn Israel for any possible action taken against Iran's nuclear capability. The rest of the world would prefer to build museums commemorating the tragedy of a second Holocaust more than it would like to see Israel survive.

Helmling · Apr 19, 2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

If Iran does manage to develop nuclear warheads, transport them through Syria and Palestine or even deploy them on missiles. Would Israel have the capasity to fend off an attack from Lebanon, Syria, the-refugees-by-choice, and Iran ?

It's admirable that the U.S. is going with the ore diplomatic route now (frankly the American forces are spread too think as it is imo). It appears as though the U.S. is hoping that Israel "takes care of" the issue (the way they did in Iraq before).

Having said that i know that the IDF is probably the best military orginization this world has seen..... but a nuclear warhead is a different ball game. I just hope the rest of the free world will offer support to Israel if the U.N. and U.S. are preoccupied.

Thoughts ? Comments ?

My thought is that the IDF isn't the best military organization the world has seen. Their might stems largely from, oh, I don't know, US military hardware and support.

Their existence is wholly dependent on that support, which is also an answer to your question.

sek929 · Apr 19, 2007, 12:44 PM

Israel decimated Arab forces in 67, I think once they feel threatened enough they will put the f**kin hammer down on Iran.

OreoCookie · Apr 19, 2007, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

It's admirable that the U.S. is going with the ore diplomatic route now (frankly the American forces are spread too think as it is imo). It appears as though the U.S. is hoping that Israel "takes care of" the issue (the way they did in Iraq before).

The US doesn't have a choice here. The Bush Administration is taking the diplomatic route, because they have to, they have no other options at the moment.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Having said that i know that the IDF is probably the best military orginization this world has seen.....

Really? :errr:
What about the US military? The Japanese military? The Brits? The Germans? The French? The Chinese? Or are you just saying that because it feels good?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

but a nuclear warhead is a different ball game. I just hope the rest of the free world will offer support to Israel if the U.N. and U.S. are preoccupied.

Iran is one of the top priorities on the agenda of world politics. People are working hard to resolve the situation (that's another reason why Israel's government was very calm after Iran's latest announcements that they were starting to enrich uranium on a commercial level).

Originally Posted by sek929

Israel decimated Arab forces in 67, I think once they feel threatened enough they will put the f**kin hammer down on Iran.

How? Are they going to invade Iran?
Iran has learnt from Iraq and large portions of their nuclear facilities are deep underground. They are spread all over the country. Their military options are rather limited. I don't think Israel can take out Iran's nuclear capabilities by itself.

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 01:42 PM

Israel is the root of all the problems in the Middle East. Why should only Israel have a nuclear weapon? I think once Iran gets a nuclear bomb, that will level the playing field and then Israel will quit bullying everyone in the Middle East. Also, the fact Israel is supported by the American government now will change once the Democrats win the presidency in 2008. Nancy Pelosi has already signaled Syria the Democrats will work with them. It's just a matter of time before Iran gets a nuclear weapon and then maybe Israel will come around and see the handwriting on the wall.

osiris · Apr 19, 2007, 03:30 PM

I think that once Iran has the bomb, the US will suddenly stop kissing Israel's tush, and begin to view the ME with a little more indifference. And maybe Israel will ease up on 'aggressive diplomacy'... Maybe the suicide bombers will stop... Or maybe Israel & Iran will turn the ME into glass. Who the heck knows.

Anyway, I do hope to visit Israel some day, so I hope a diplomatic solution is reached.

Big Mac · Apr 19, 2007, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

Israel is the root of all the problems in the Middle East. . . .

Why stop at blaming a country that controls 1% of a region's land for all of its problems? It's true, Israel is responsible for corrupt Arab dictatorships. Israel is responsible for the backward nature of Islamic culture. Israel is responsible for Sunni on Shiite violence in Iraq. But it goes further than that: Israel is the root of all problems in the whole world. Stubbed your toe? Israel's fault. Bird crapped on your car? Israel's fault. Got fired? Israel's fault. It's the global Jewish conspiracy that accounts for every single problem you know of - I have to admit it. We're just that powerful, and there's nothing you gentiles can do about it.

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by osiris

I think that once Iran has the bomb, the US will suddenly stop kissing Israel's tush, and begin to view the ME with a little more indifference. And maybe Israel will ease up on 'aggressive diplomacy'... Maybe the suicide bombers will stop... Or maybe Israel & Iran will turn the ME into glass. Who the heck knows.

Anyway, I do hope to visit Israel some day, so I hope a diplomatic solution is reached.

I don't think the suicide bombers will stop until the Muslims regain there rightful place in the world. Sucide bombers have been very successful. Look how they are running the Americans out of Iraq? Once the Americans are gone, they can focus and take care of business in Israel.

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 03:53 PM

The Lord our shepard, so says the Psalm, but just in case we'd better get a bomb.

Big Mac · Apr 19, 2007, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

I don't think the suicide bombers will stop until the Muslims regain there rightful place in the world. Sucide bombers have been very successful. Look how they are running the Americans out of Iraq? Once the Americans are gone, they can focus and take care of business in Israel.

So you support the terrorists and their goals. What do you define as the rightful place in the world for the Muslims? Domination?

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Why stop at blaming a country that controls 1% of a region's land for all of its problems? It's true, Israel is responsible for corrupt Arab dictatorships. Israel is responsible for the backward nature of Islamic culture. Israel is responsible for Sunni on Shiite violence in Iraq. But it goes further than that: Israel is the root of all problems in the whole world. Stubbed your toe? Israel's fault. Bird crapped on your car? Israel's fault. Got fired? Israel's fault. It's the global Jewish conspiracy that accounts for every single problem you know of - I have to admit it. We're just that powerful, and there's nothing you gentiles can do about it.

HA HA HA. Harry Reid, the great Democrat Leader of the US Senate has declared "the war is lost" in Iraq. You can depend on him to defend Israel though, right? How's that for a nice "gentile" conspiracy. A few suicide bombers and we'll see how powerful Israel is. I wouldn't count on the USA to help.

Nicko · Apr 19, 2007, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

If Iran does manage to develop nuclear warheads,

Thoughts ? Comments ?

Ok stop there. If Iran gets their nukes do you honestly think they would be stupid enough to use them? Have a nuke is the ultimate bargaining chip. Leveling the field would probably be a good thing.

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

So you support the terrorists and their goals. What do you define as the rightful place in the world for the Muslims? Domination?

Terrorism is the only way they can fight back. Americans drop bombs from planes, at least the sucide bombers are real men with courage. Their goals are self determination and freedom to practice their own religion. They want nothing to with the Americans and the American culture. Can you blame them?

osiris · Apr 19, 2007, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

I don't think the suicide bombers will stop until the Muslims regain there rightful place in the world. Sucide bombers have been very successful. Look how they are running the Americans out of Iraq? Once the Americans are gone, they can focus and take care of business in Israel.

You really think that this is funny, don't you?

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Nicko

Ok stop there. If Iran gets their nukes do you honestly think they would be stupid enough to use them? Have a nuke is the ultimate bargaining chip. Leveling the field would probably be a good thing.

Until Israel is no longer an aparthied country, run by Jews there will be no peace.

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by osiris

You really think that this is funny, don't you?

It's the truth.

osiris · Apr 19, 2007, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

It's the truth.

Ah, yes, that explains everything. You know the truth!

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

Terrorism is the only way they can fight back. Americans drop bombs from planes, at least the sucide bombers are real men with courage. Their goals are self determination and freedom to practice their own religion. They want nothing to with the Americans and the American culture. Can you blame them?

Blame them for blowing up buses filed with innocent civilians on their way to school and work? Yes.

Blame them for blowing up restaurants, murdering dozens of innocent people? Yes.

Blame them for murdering innocent women, children and civilians? Yes.

Blame them? Yes.

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

Until Israel is no longer an aparthied country, run by Jews there will be no peace.

Good thinking. That will get you really far.

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by osiris

Ah, yes, that explains everything. You know the truth!

What are you saying? You asked me if I was joking? I'm saying suicide bombing has been a very successful tactic. The Americans are getting their ass kicked in Iraq. Harry Reid has said "the war is lost". That's a good thing. Right?

osiris · Apr 19, 2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

What are you saying? You asked me if I was joking? I'm saying suicide bombing has been a very successful tactic. The Americans are getting their ass kicked in Iraq. Harry Reid has said "the war is lost". That's a good thing. Right?

No, you are saying that it's a good thing. Frankly, I don't know what the hell you're talking about anymore.

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

Good thinking. That will get you really far.

Jimmy Carter, the Democrat President, called Israel an apartheid nation. Would he lie? I know he knows a lot more about the Middle East than most people. He even wrote a book about it. He's gone pretty far. I think there's a museum with his name on it too.

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

Blame them for blowing up buses filed with innocent civilians on their way to school and work? Yes.

Blame them for blowing up restaurants, murdering dozens of innocent people? Yes.

Blame them for murdering innocent women, children and civilians? Yes.

Blame them? Yes.

The end justifies the means. Just look at Iraq. They were a lot more stable under Saddam Hussein were they not? He didn't care who or how many women and children he killed. And people were a lot happier. Just ask the Iraqis how much better off they were under Saddam before the Amercans invaded. You hear about it everyday on TV. There are probaby a a bunch of polls to prove it too. Now, just look how successful the suicide bombers are. There trying to get rid of the Americans so they can go back to the way they were. Can you blame them for that?

OAW · Apr 19, 2007, 05:58 PM

I'll attempt to bring this thread back on topic ...

Have those that are worried about an Iranian nuclear strike on Israel looked a map lately? Especially one launched from Syria or Palestine? There is this thing called nuclear fallout you know. Furthermore, there is the massive Israeli retaliation to consider. It amazes me how so many seem to think that M.A.D. is only effective when Europeans are involved.

OAW

Orion27 · Apr 19, 2007, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

I'll attempt to bring this thread back on topic ...

Have those that are worried about an Iranian nuclear strike on Israel looked a map lately? Especially one launched from Syria or Palestine? There is this thing called nuclear fallout you know. Furthermore, there is the massive Israeli retaliation to consider. It amazes me how so many seem to think that M.A.D. is only effective when Europeans are involved.

OAW

Nuclear fallout is not that bad. Bombs are cleaner and smaller now. The Japanese survived didn't they? The benefits of getting rid of Israel probably out weigh the short term disadvantage of a little fall out.

tie · Apr 19, 2007, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

HA HA HA. Harry Reid, the great Democrat Leader of the US Senate has declared "the war is lost" in Iraq. You can depend on him to defend Israel though, right?

I think this means he has some connection to reality, unlike you or our president. Probably a good quality for a leader if you are looking for someone to help out, as opposed to, say, invading the wrong country (and then getting stuck there indefinitely as hundreds of thousands of innocent people die).

You brought up an interesting point in one of your other posts, though. What if we could negotiate a nuclear disarmament of Israel? Would this stabilize the Middle East at all? Could it advance or even be linked with restraining Iran's nuclear ambitions? One nuclear party in a region is not a recipe for nonproliferation.

Aron Peterson · Apr 19, 2007, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

I don't think the suicide bombers will stop until the Muslims regain there rightful place in the world. Sucide bombers have been very successful. Look how they are running the Americans out of Iraq? Once the Americans are gone, they can focus and take care of business in Israel.

You should be banned. From the internet. From any civilised society. Wait, you probably don't live in one.

vmarks · Apr 19, 2007, 06:57 PM

You defeat terrorists by taking away the hope of their success.

This is why Israel suffers fewer terrorist attacks when it acts aggressively. And then it swings back the other way, and more attacks take place.

Iran's problem isn't that Israel may have nuclear devices: It is that Israel exists at all. That's why Ahmadinejad wrote a letter to Angela Merkel expressing how much Germany had in common with Iran with regards to the Jews and Israel.

Still, I think we should hear Orion27 explain what he means by "Muslims regain their rightful place in the world." I wonder what exactly that means to him.

Dakarʒ · Apr 19, 2007, 07:01 PM

It feels like he's trying to play the role of a less clever marden.

Big Mac · 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

Until Israel is no longer an aparthied country, run by Jews there will be no peace.

Israel is not an apartheid country - that's just a convenient accusation for Israel bashers to make and then provide no material evidence to support it. Israel is a western democracy governed by secular law. There are Arab members of its parliament, and recently its Prime Minister Olmert appointed Israel's first Arab cabinet member. Arab members of Knesset denounce the country in its own elected body on a daily basis. Arabs in Israel own property, vote and enjoy rights and liberties - sometimes to a greater extent than Jews. Arabs in Israel have a far higher standard of living than their brethren who reside in Arab countries. The Arab propaganda you've been brainwashed with is simply not representative of reality, Orion. But the Arabs in Israel and its territories will never be satisfied unless they turn Israel into "Palestine," and that's the view you represent too. Those who want to live in Arab countries have all sorts of options - they have 22 to choose from. They should leave the one Jewish country.

Originally Posted by Orion27

Jimmy Carter, the Democrat President, called Israel an apartheid nation. Would he lie? I know he knows a lot more about the Middle East than most people. He even wrote a book about it. He's gone pretty far. I think there's a museum with his name on it too.

Would he lie? Certainly. Do you think mentioning he's a Democrat will make your case any stronger? Carter is owned by Arab interests. And that book has been thoroughly refuted and debunked as trash by all sorts of critics, including one of his senior partners who resigned from his center over it. Besides, Carter is the worst president of all time, a national disgrace who is largely responsible for much of the foreign policy problems we are dealing with today. He compromised Israel by forcing upon it concessions to Egypt, he made the US look foolish and Iran look powerful by botching the hostage crisis and he helped broker the deal with North Korea that allowed the country to continue its development of nukes. He also permanently ruined the value of the dollar. Worst president ever.

Aron Peterson · Apr 19, 2007, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by vmarks

Still, I think we should hear Orion27 explain what he means by "Muslims regain their rightful place in the world." I wonder what exactly that means to him.

It means he wants my mother and sister to cover their hair because he can't control his perverted thoughts about them.

Big Mac · Apr 19, 2007, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

It means he wants my mother and sister to cover their hair because he can't control his perverted thoughts about them.

I think it means he wants Sharia to control the globe, since that is the maximal aim of the Muslim fanatics he supports.

OreoCookie · Apr 19, 2007, 07:31 PM

@BigMac
<hint>Onion27 is trying to be funny. </hint>

Big Mac · Apr 19, 2007, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

@BigMac
<hint>Onion27 is trying to be funny. </hint>

Certainly fooled me.

Helmling · Apr 19, 2007, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

Israel is the root of all the problems in the Middle East. Why should only Israel have a nuclear weapon? I think once Iran gets a nuclear bomb, that will level the playing field and then Israel will quit bullying everyone in the Middle East. Also, the fact Israel is supported by the American government now will change once the Democrats win the presidency in 2008. Nancy Pelosi has already signaled Syria the Democrats will work with them. It's just a matter of time before Iran gets a nuclear weapon and then maybe Israel will come around and see the handwriting on the wall.

Wait...is that another parody?

I hope so.

Helmling · Apr 19, 2007, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Israel is not an apartheid country - that's just a convenient accusation for Israel bashers to make and then provide no material evidence to support it. Israel is a western democracy governed by secular law. There are Arab members of its parliament, and recently its Prime Minister Olmert appointed Israel's first Arab cabinet member. Arab members of Knesset denounce the country in its own elected body on a daily basis. Arabs in Israel own property, vote and enjoy rights and liberties - sometimes to a greater extent than Jews. Arabs in Israel have a far higher standard of living than their brethren who reside in Arab countries. The Arab propaganda you've been brainwashed with is simply not representative of reality, Orion. But the Arabs in Israel and its territories will never be satisfied unless they turn Israel into "Palestine," and that's the view you represent too. Those who want to live in Arab countries have all sorts of options - they have 22 to choose from. They should leave the one Jewish country.

Would he lie? Certainly. Do you think mentioning he's a Democrat will make your case any stronger? Carter is owned by Arab interests. And that book has been thoroughly refuted and debunked as trash by all sorts of critics, including one of his senior partners who resigned from his center over it. Besides, Carter is the worst president of all time, a national disgrace who is largely responsible for much of the foreign policy problems we are dealing with today. He compromised Israel by forcing upon it concessions to Egypt, he made the US look foolish and Iran look powerful by botching the hostage crisis and he helped broker the deal with North Korea that allowed the country to continue its development of nukes. He also permanently ruined the value of the dollar. Worst president ever.

Even though Orion was being...um, silly? I guess...I don't think the "apartheid" comment is that far out of line. Yes, Israel is democratic, but "secular" is a stretch, and that democracy does not extend to the occupied territories. If the Palestinians were voting for seats in the Israeli parliament, then I'd have almost no beef with Israel.

Helmling · Apr 19, 2007, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

Nuclear fallout is not that bad. Bombs are cleaner and smaller now. The Japanese survived didn't they? The benefits of getting rid of Israel probably out weigh the short term disadvantage of a little fall out.

Really, what is the point of the games you play? Just cut it out, yeah.

Hawkeye_a · Apr 19, 2007, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

Until Israel is no longer an aparthied country, run by Jews there will be no peace.

Oh you mean 1 million muslim residents constitutes "apartheide", how about the 0 Jews resident in what-should-be-israeli territory ? so i guess the other Arab countries are non-apartheide....except for Jews... oh and anyone who has ever been to Israel, even for a visit.

1. I suggest everyone "ignore" Orion27.
2. i recommend the moderators ban him from the Political Lounge (at least).

China and US have strength in numbers, which does make a strong military force. The Israelis however are small in numbers, surrounded by larger nations, with a lot of firepower. fending them off, holding their ground, running covert rescue missions into Africa, etc.... they just seem to me like a to-the-point, get the job done, military orginization.

You actually think Iran would use a nuclear weapon as a bargaining tool ? I guess it is a possibility, but imo, a rather small one, given the rhetoric and racist ways of it's people and leaders.

Originally Posted by vmarks

Still, I think we should hear Orion27 explain what he means by "Muslims regain their rightful place in the world." I wonder what exactly that means to him.

probably means women locked up at home, men sexually deprived and non-muslim racial hatred is legal. vmarks, cant u do anything to get rid of this guy ?

Cheers

Hawkeye_a · Apr 19, 2007, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Helmling

Even though Orion was being...um, silly? I guess...I don't think the "apartheid" comment is that far out of line. Yes, Israel is democratic, but "secular" is a stretch, and that democracy does not extend to the occupied territories. If the Palestinians were voting for seats in the Israeli parliament, then I'd have almost no beef with Israel.

The problem with doing that is, you end up with situations like what the U.S. is in right now, the U.K. with home grown terrorists, riots in France, etc.... its not the people, its their teachings imo.

Personally i think citizenship should be a bilateral thing between countries. As soon as Lebanon, Syria and Jordan accept israelis and permit them to vote and live in their territories, Israel can accept their citizens as citizens of Israel. it shouldnt be just Israel dolling out citizenship and rights(which imo should be earned) to any Arab/Muslim crossing the border, cause they can easily get swamped. But then the issue of security of non-muslims in muslim territory should be taken into account.... trust me, it is a major issue. And given the way it is right now, i dont think many non-muslims would want to risk it.

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

Jimmy Carter, the Democrat President, called Israel an apartheid nation. Would he lie? I know he knows a lot more about the Middle East than most people. He even wrote a book about it. He's gone pretty far. I think there's a museum with his name on it too.

A politician saying something other than the truth? GASP!

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Orion27

The end justifies the means. Just look at Iraq. They were a lot more stable under Saddam Hussein were they not? He didn't care who or how many women and children he killed. And people were a lot happier. Just ask the Iraqis how much better off they were under Saddam before the Amercans invaded. You hear about it everyday on TV. There are probaby a a bunch of polls to prove it too. Now, just look how successful the suicide bombers are. There trying to get rid of the Americans so they can go back to the way they were. Can you blame them for that?

The Americans in Iraq walk around in military uniform and are heavily armed.

The Jews in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are civilians, born in the country, who love and live on the land.

Can you tell the difference between a solider and unarmed civilian? I can. It's rather simple.

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by vmarks

You defeat terrorists by taking away the hope of their success.

This is why Israel suffers fewer terrorist attacks when it acts aggressively. And then it swings back the other way, and more attacks take place.

Iran's problem isn't that Israel may have nuclear devices: It is that Israel exists at all. That's why Ahmadinejad wrote a letter to Angela Merkel expressing how much Germany had in common with Iran with regards to the Jews and Israel.

Still, I think we should hear Orion27 explain what he means by "Muslims regain their rightful place in the world." I wonder what exactly that means to him.

German Chancellor Adolf Hitler and Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini: Zionism and the Arab Cause (November 28, 1941)

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

It means he wants my mother and sister to cover their hair because he can't control his perverted thoughts about them.

Only their hair? Try their whole bodies. Burkas are in style!

Wiskedjak · Apr 19, 2007, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

Blame them for blowing up buses filed with innocent civilians on their way to school and work? Yes.

Blame them for blowing up restaurants, murdering dozens of innocent people? Yes.

Blame them for murdering innocent women, children and civilians? Yes.

Blame them? Yes.

Can the Muslim culture be blamed blamed for the actions of a few terrorists claiming to acting in the name of Islam?

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Can the Muslim culture be blamed blamed for the actions of a few terrorists claiming to acting in the name of Islam?

If a culture cultivates an attitude of murder, then yes. However, since I am not a sociologist, psychologist or anthropologist I cannot claim any expert knowledge if Islam allows this. I do, however, blame the people who strap bombs to themselves thinking they are doing a holy act.

Wiskedjak · Apr 19, 2007, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

I do, however, blame the people who strap bombs to themselves thinking they are doing a holy act.

What about the Muslims who don't strap bombs to themselves, but do little or nothing to stop them? What about the Palestinians who voted for Hamas?

Helmling · Apr 19, 2007, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

The problem with doing that is, you end up with situations like what the U.S. is in right now, the U.K. with home grown terrorists, riots in France, etc.... its not the people, its their teachings imo.

Personally i think citizenship should be a bilateral thing between countries. As soon as Lebanon, Syria and Jordan accept israelis and permit them to vote and live in their territories, Israel can accept their citizens as citizens of Israel. it shouldnt be just Israel dolling out citizenship and rights(which imo should be earned) to any Arab/Muslim crossing the border, cause they can easily get swamped. But then the issue of security of non-muslims in muslim territory should be taken into account.... trust me, it is a major issue. And given the way it is right now, i dont think many non-muslims would want to risk it.

Democracy is not a matter of practicality. it is an ideal.

It is not enough to survive...one must be worthy.

Helmling · Apr 19, 2007, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Can the Muslim culture be blamed blamed for the actions of a few terrorists claiming to acting in the name of Islam?

What would it mean to "blame" a culture? I don't know, but obviously we are dealing with a pervasive cultural current that promotes violence and which is antithetical to our ideals.

Is that "blaming" the culture?

bstone · Apr 19, 2007, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

What about the Muslims who don't strap bombs to themselves, but do little or nothing to stop them? What about the Palestinians who voted for Hamas?

That brings up a very interesting point. If you vote in "democratic" elections and select a world-renown terrorist organization as your political leader, then you may be tempted to assume the people support said group.