[silverflyer]

Originally Posted by scottiB 

Is this conjecture?

Yes, purely conjecture, but read my link and think about the meaning of the name Apollo in Mythology and how that relates to the mythology present in BSG.

[reader50]

Baltar, D'Anna, Cavil in the Temple.

D'Anna: This is my destiny. To see what lies between life and death.
Cavil: And to look upon the faces of the Final Five. That can't happen.

At end of ep, Cavil & D'Anna in Resurrection-Cold Storage chamber.

D'Anna: One must die to know the truth. There are five other Cylons, brother. I saw them. One day you're going to see them too. One day.
Cavil: Bye.
(shut down sequence)

The way I read this, the Cavils know more about the Final Five than the other known models do. Cavil showed no interest in something he perhaps already knew, but only acted to keep D'Anna quiet. Also, he made sure he was the only other model present, in case D'Anna blurted out any names.

Concerning the temple and D'Anna's vision there. I don't think the temple had info about Cylons from 4K years ago, the Cylons are too recent a development. It's more likely it was an enabler, giving anyone who stepped on the pad a near-death experience. D'Anna saw what she brought with her, and did croak from the experience.

I like the Cottle identity for one of the Final Five. It fits much better than some of the other prospects.

The Cylons are going to have a lot more vote ties now. The internal politics may get more interesting, with bribe attempts or other ways to tilt the votes.

The Six that came back with Athena. I'm thinking it was Caprica, in part because she snapped Boomer's neck. Caprica is one of the few who's shown a willingness to kill other Cylons when convenient. Also, Boomer let her get close - the two have been a team for close to two years now. Finally, Caprica got shut out by D'Anna and Baltar, she was the only Six with emotional baggage just then.

[reader50]

About those posting spoilers concerning the rest of the season. Suggestion, could we go back to the white text please, for those who want to speculate rather than get inside info?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Actually I never saw him in the original so when I saw that Wiki comment my comment was a question hoping someone here could confirm the relation.

Personally, I think Lucifer was more like a sarcastic Smithers than a 6.

[Dark Helmet]

I liked what they did with Boomer. She has always been dark and much more dangerous and unpredictable than Athena.

She turned around a bit as Caprica 8 but the frustration of the baby rejecting her and the jealousy of Athena set her over the edge in a believable way. Just before part 2 aired commenting to my friend how you can tell just by looking at them that Boomer is dark and dangerous and Athena is honorable and good.

In regards to the big picture though do you think that when they say "This has all happened before and will happen again" isn't quite as litteral as we think it is? Meaning that not the exact situations are created over and over but the overall theme?

Something like when the original colony started on a planet they hit an evolutionary point where humans create a robot lifeform, that robot turns on the creator causing humans to flee to another planet in small numbers to start over only to have the same thing happen again when they hit the same evolutionary point. Rinse repeat.

In other words life started on Kobol, after those humans built robots and had them turn against them they fled to the 13 colonies. On the 12 colonies eventually the cylons were born, tried to kill everyone, humans run for it, find earth, live happily for thousands of years until they eventually make robots again, they turn on them also, they run back to a myth of a planet called Caprica where stories say all human came from originally.

Heck all we know the final 5 can be defendants of human/robot hybrids from the last time this happened. I'd believe that Starbuck and Baltar could easily be 2 of the decedents.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by reader50 

About those posting spoilers concerning the rest of the season. Suggestion, could we go back to the white text please, for those who want to speculate rather than get inside info?

I dunno, the thread title does say "Spoilers".

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Actually I never saw him in the original so when I saw that Wiki comment my comment was a question hoping someone here could confirm the relation.

In the original, Baltar was the face of the Cylon empire, and Lucifer was his second in command. The Cyclons structure now seems more like a group compared to the original.

[Visnaut]

I think Jack Bauer is one of the final five. That dude is a machine!

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Eug 

There have a few times they've wanted him, but then decided it wasn't worth it to make him come in for just a couple of scenes (since he's not a regular character). They HAVE had him at a couple of meetings though....And I think on Caprica they did have some black stand-in in the background too.

I watched the episode again and he WAS there!!! It was a double or a manequin or a poster or something but you could see him standing behind one of those drippy 60's oil-string walls on the base-star during the meeting as were a few other Six's. He didn't seem to have a vote or anything to say though. Poor actor... I'd hate to get a cool role on a super cool show and then be replaced by a cardboard cutout.

[reader50]

Hey, here's a fallout from the episode. Athena didn't just waltz in, and come back with Hera. She paid a high price. The body she had was immune to things the rest of the Cylons aren't, because of interactions with Hera as a fetus.

The body she has today has no special immunities. If the Colonies ever retry the plague weapon, Athena will need to go into isolation until the plague is gone. Or she'll be toast, or have to take the drugs indefinitely. Or until she and Helo go to work again.

[bstone]

I kind of wonder why they haven't had a second baby. Perhaps because they are both active duty?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Concerning the temple and D'Anna's vision there. I don't think the temple had info about Cylons from 4K years ago, the Cylons are too recent a development. It's more likely it was an enabler, giving anyone who stepped on the pad a near-death experience. D'Anna saw what she brought with her, and did croak from the experience.

Quite possible. Being exposed to radiation for that long might be considered near death.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by bstone 

I kind of wonder why they haven't had a second baby. Perhaps because they are both active duty?

Although it's possible for them to have a baby (they've already had one, after all), it's probably still very difficult even for them. For all we know, they may have been trying without success.

Or maybe not. It's possible that once their daughter "died", they didn't try for another out of fear that it might happen again. Many couples who lose a child go through that. They recently learned that their daughter didn't die after all, but they've had other things to worry about since then.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Hey, here's a fallout from the episode. Athena didn't just waltz in, and come back with Hera. She paid a high price. The body she had was immune to things the rest of the Cylons aren't, because of interactions with Hera as a fetus.

The body she has today has no special immunities. If the Colonies ever retry the plague weapon, Athena will need to go into isolation until the plague is gone. Or she'll be toast, or have to take the drugs indefinitely. Or until she and Helo go to work again.

Ooh; good point. Then again, if this virus can be spread between bodies via resurrection, perhaps the immunity also can. This is one of those points where the science of the series starts to break down.

[Millennium]

Some speculation (and that's all any of this is; pure speculation):

The Final Six. The Final Five are boxed Cylon lines, which now exist wherever it is that Cylon personalities are stored between death and resurrection. They are no longer the individuals that they were when the lines were active, but composite beings, embodiments of the archetypes their lines represented. There are now six of them, with Number Three being the most recent. But what were the crimes of the first five lines?

Number Twelve. Cavil is Number Twelve, the most recent of the Cylon models. This breaks the pattern of higher-numbered units seeming younger, but that is deliberate: it makes him seem more authoritative. He is the religious authority despite his skepticism because his actual role is that of a religious enforcer: he purges "heretic" lines like the Threes and establishes an orthodoxy in which the boxed lines simply do not exist. It is even possible that Cylon memories can be modified so that agents contemporary with a line that gets boxed lose their memories of that line, which would explain why no one remembers the Final Five. But he must retain some memory of them, in order to recognize the heresy when it pops up: what does he really know?

Recognition, or Lack Thereof. D'Anna recognized someone we've never met, but she has: a Cylon line she once knew, but was forced to forget. As Number Three, her line was probably at least contemporary with some of the other heretics, yet she didn't remember and of them. Having seen their faces, she remembers them now, and so she apologizes for forgetting.

Alternatively, D'Anna didn't recognize any of the Final Five. They "spoke" to her through the Cylon collective unconscious -which we know is possible because this is how the Cylons vote- and her apparent 'recognition' was really a reaction to whatever they said. Or perhaps they restored her memories of the line this way, and that's how she recognized them.

Mystical Psychodrama. We're going to get a lot of Jungian psychology thrown at us in the next few episodes, or perhaps even the whole next season. We will learn more about the archetypes that the lines were based on, whether they actually use Jung's system or one of their own invention. We'll find out how the Cylons deal with the loss of their archetypes as lines get boxed, if in fact they deal with it at all. We'll also learn more about the way their collective unconscious works.

[Millennium]

And one more bit of speculation...

Pissing Off the Pagans. The Three/Eight/Six trinity mirrored the pagan concept of the Triple Goddess: Maiden, Mother, Crone. Although D'Anna has been present for a long time, the point when we see her really go off the deep end and start plotting to find the Final Five is after she starts sleeping with Baltar. No longer Maiden but incapable of becoming Mother, she needs to redefine her place in the cosmos, and she seeks to do this by usurping the Crone's position of wise woman, the one who knows the mysteries. She nearly succeeds in this: for a stretch of several episodes it is she, not Six, who is constantly by Baltar's side, dispensing religious wisdom. But the cosmos doesn't work that way so easily, and eventually she is stopped by the orthodox, patriarchal faith. But now that she is boxed, the Cylons can no longer sustain their triple goddess: there are only two female archetypes left. How will this affect things?

As an aside, this would all mean that the machine goddess is a 386.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Hey, here's a fallout from the episode. Athena didn't just waltz in, and come back with Hera. She paid a high price. The body she had was immune to things the rest of the Cylons aren't, because of interactions with Hera as a fetus.

Actually I was thinking of the pluses she gained. First, she was shot in season 1, then she got beaten up badly more than once, also I'm sure Helo will like her new body as this one is a bit more "tighter" as the last one squeezed a kid out .

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

As an aside, this would all mean that the machine goddess is a 386.

This is pure geek talk, baby!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by bstone 

I kind of wonder why they haven't had a second baby. Perhaps because they are both active duty?

I think it is more for political reasons. I mean Adama and Roslin would both be very unhappy if they were happily squeezing them out one after another building a new race.

One was trouble enough.

Anywho some thoughts on where the story may go. I always thought from season one that eventually there might be a civil war with the Cylons. If not a war at least a faction that decides they are on the humans side. We have already seen this happen with Athena and now even the stone cold 6 has defected. I think it would be cool to see a couple basestars cut themselves off from the other Cylons and follow and protect the fleet. Perhaps all 6's, leobens and 8's decide to join the humans eapecially once they figure out some of the final 5 are in the fleet, I don't fully understand why one model 6 would defect would and the others not.

I am still wondering how the series will end though. Part of me is worried they might try to tie it into our religious history. For example when they get to earth it could be 2000 years ago by our calendar.

You know, the whole banned from the garden of Eden (Caprica), Guias/Jesus death and "resurrection" etc etc.

I still think when they do hit earth there will have to be some mutual compromises by both the humans and Cylons. Otherwise why do the humans think once they find earth the Cylons will never return. It could be something dark like the Cylons willingly self destructing all the toasters/basestars/resurection ships but in return allowing the human Cylons to to fully integrate with humans on earth. The Cylons would be happy as they gain acceptance from humans and their gene pool will get mixed into earths new population. They can love, have babies and die for good (no resurrection). Heck they might even suggest all of us today and actually hybrids from thousands of years go when this all took place.

I hope they do follow up on why the Cylons were cleaning up the 12 colonies though after the attack. Either they were planning to live there or they were anticipating something arriving in the future such as hybrids immune to the radiation. For all we know they were cleaning it up as in a few thousand years history might repeat itself and humans can flee earth to find the mythical 12 colonies.

The circle of life.

P.s. Weren't we supposed to see the Cylon HOME WORLD this season as well as 6's head Baltar?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Quite possible. Being exposed to radiation for that long might be considered near death.

I thought it was a booby trap of sorta as "the final 5 will be reveled only to the chosen one". As she probably wasn't it the thing killed her.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

You know, the whole banned from the garden of Eden (Caprica), Guias/Jesus death and "resurrection" etc etc.

I really hope that Baltar didn't grow the beard because he turns out to be Jebus.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I really hope that Baltar didn't grow the beard because he turns out to be Jebus.

I think they would be scared of hugely offending 80% of the population but if it is the last episode they might not care.

Could be cool if they do it right though.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

P.s. Weren't we supposed to see the Cylon HOME WORLD this season as well as 6's head Baltar?

I've been wondering about the plotline on the Cylon homeworld. I really hope they didn't decide to move it to a basestar.

There's plenty of time for Internal-Baltar to rear his head, though, especially since Caprica-Six is now on Galactica. I wonder if they'll try to conjure up some way for Internal-Six and Internal-Baltar to interact with one another.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

There's plenty of time for Internal-Baltar to rear his head, though, especially since Caprica-Six is now on Galactica. I wonder if they'll try to conjure up some way for Internal-Six and Internal-Baltar to interact with one another.

I'm surprised at some point they didn't sit down, compare notes, and realize they were in each other's heads.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm surprised at some point they didn't sit down, compare notes, and realize they were in each other's heads.

They were too busy laying down and getting in each other's... well, let's not go there.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm surprised at some point they didn't sit down, compare notes, and realize they were in each other's heads.

I think both of them have a lot of pride and saying they are constantly hallucinating the other makes them sound totally nuts.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Some speculation (and that's all any of this is; pure speculation):

The Final Six. The Final Five are boxed Cylon lines, which now exist wherever it is that Cylon personalities are stored between death and resurrection. They are no longer the individuals that they were when the lines were active, but composite beings, embodiments of the archetypes their lines represented. There are now six of them, with Number Three being the most recent. But what were the crimes of the first five lines?

Number Twelve. Cavil is Number Twelve, the most recent of the Cylon models. This breaks the pattern of higher-numbered units seeming younger, but that is deliberate: it makes him seem more authoritative. He is the religious authority despite his skepticism because his actual role is that of a religious enforcer: he purges "heretic" lines like the Threes and establishes an orthodoxy in which the boxed lines simply do not exist. It is even possible that Cylon memories can be modified so that agents contemporary with a line that gets boxed lose their memories of that line, which would explain why no one remembers the Final Five. But he must retain some memory of them, in order to recognize the heresy when it pops up: what does he really know?

Recognition, or Lack Thereof. D'Anna recognized someone we've never met, but she has: a Cylon line she once knew, but was forced to forget. As Number Three, her line was probably at least contemporary with some of the other heretics, yet she didn't remember and of them. Having seen their faces, she remembers them now, and so she apologizes for forgetting.

Alternatively, D'Anna didn't recognize any of the Final Five. They "spoke" to her through the Cylon collective unconscious -which we know is possible because this is how the Cylons vote- and her apparent 'recognition' was really a reaction to whatever they said. Or perhaps they restored her memories of the line this way, and that's how she recognized them.

Mystical Psychodrama. We're going to get a lot of Jungian psychology thrown at us in the next few episodes, or perhaps even the whole next season. We will learn more about the archetypes that the lines were based on, whether they actually use Jung's system or one of their own invention. We'll find out how the Cylons deal with the loss of their archetypes as lines get boxed, if in fact they deal with it at all. We'll also learn more about the way their collective unconscious works.

Very interesting notes here. One thing to remember though is that D'Anna saw the final five via the temple on Algae planet, and that her whole deal about being the chosen one was only set forth by the fortune teller human on New Caprica. I'm not sure how these two points fit in with the boxed model theory?

[goMac]

I like the boxed Cylon theory, despite it ruining my Cottle is a Cylon idea.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by goMac 

You think? That would mean the hybrid child is not a hybrid at all.

That's assuming the final 5 are true Cylons, or even Cylons at all. The fact that they would be intended to appear in a human temple suggests that they are much more than the Cylons we are familiar with.

The hybrid child maybe not be a human-Cylon hybrid.

[Cadaver]

The supernova did screw their food supply though... or did they (conveniently) manage to get enough to satisfy their food needs?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Point being, I don't see any connection between the Cylon faith and that of Mankind, outside of the Cylons believing Man's faith is bunk.

Or, as with many religions, the Cylons and the Humans believe in different interpretations of the same thing, and don't realize that it's the same thing.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

That's assuming the final 5 are true Cylons, or even Cylons at all. The fact that they would be intended to appear in a human temple suggests that they are much more than the Cylons we are familiar with.

The hybrid child maybe not be a human-Cylon hybrid.

What about the 'hybrids' that control the basestars? Are they half human? Are they identical to eachother? Are they one of the 7 or the 5? Why are they called hybrids too?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Or, as with many religions, the Cylons and the Humans believe in different interpretations of the same thing, and don't realize that it's the same thing.

...which is what I said: the Cylons think the Human faith is bunk.

[Buckaroo]

Spoiler Tester

 

This is a test.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

What about the 'hybrids' that control the basestars? Are they half human? Are they identical to eachother? Are they one of the 7 or the 5? Why are they called hybrids too?

They're hybrids in the sense that they're part "living" and part machine, somewhat similar to the Raiders. However, the Hybrids were created for the sole purpose of controlling a Basestar.

[Dark Helmet]

Ok I saw the trailer for next week on an american channel and like a few days ago it looked bla because it was just more of Starbuck/Lee love each other yadda yadda.

Well I changed my mind.... the Canadian Trailer FRIGGIN ROCKS!!!!

It shows little of Starbuck/Lee and more of Baltar looking like total hell and held in full body restraints (face and all) looking like Hannibal Lector. Roslin is also fighting with him and gets fed up and yells "That's it, enough, blow him out the airlock" with Baltar naturally freaking out.

On the website they also show the bar they built on BSG for the next episode. Looks like a sports ball with mini pyramid games and a beat up Viper hanging from the Ceiling.

I'm PUMPED!

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Spoiler Tester

Ooh; didn't realize we had a spoiler tag now. Excellent; thanks.

For the others here, it basically works like a quote tag, except with the word 'spoiler' instead of 'quote.'

[goMac]

My girlfriend was on the BSG website and found a different trailer for the new episode.

Go to http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/. Click on the second video link from the left (video links are on the right hand side), and then hit play video. Interesting scene at the end. Debate was you will.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

My girlfriend was on the BSG website and found a different trailer for the new episode.

Go to http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/. Click on the second video link from the left (video links are on the right hand side), and then hit play video. Interesting scene at the end. Debate was you will.

Ya that is the crappy American one though. Trust me the Canadian one is much better.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Ok I saw the trailer for next week on an american channel and like a few days ago it looked bla because it was just more of Starbuck/Lee love each other yadda yadda.

Well I changed my mind.... the Canadian Trailer FRIGGIN ROCKS!!!!

It shows little of Starbuck/Lee and more of Baltar looking like total hell and held in full body restraints (face and all) looking like Hannibal Lector. Roslin is also fighting with him and gets fed up and yells "That's it, enough, blow him out the airlock" with Baltar naturally freaking out.

On the website they also show the bar they built on BSG for the next episode. Looks like a sports ball with mini pyramid games and a beat up Viper hanging from the Ceiling.

I'm PUMPED!

Sounds good - is it available online somewhere?

[ThinkInsane]

Canadian trailer

The name of the episode is "Taking A Break From All Your Worries"? Isn't that from the Cheers theme song?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

Canadian trailer

The name of the episode is "Taking A Break From All Your Worries"? Isn't that from the Cheers theme song?

Hmm, good call because they story is about the new "bar". Crafty writers.

Oh and that trailer rocks, thanks for the link, saves me the trouble of having to post it.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Ya that is the crappy American one though. Trust me the Canadian one is much better.

Does the Canadian one show Baltar being resurrected in a tub of Cylon goo?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Does the Canadian one show Baltar being resurrected in a tub of Cylon goo?

No but it doesn't matter as the writers said not to take that literally as it is more like a dream or typical Baltar vision.

They wouldn't give away something like that with trailers.

[RAILhead]

He's hallucinating.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

No but it doesn't matter as the writers said not to take that literally as it is more like a dream or typical Baltar vision.

That's what I figured, but I didn't know the writers had already commented on it.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

That's what I figured, but I didn't know the writers had already commented on it.

It was in that LOOOONG interview I posted at the end of the last page.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

It was in that LOOOONG interview I posted at the end of the last page.

Did anyone notice the picture in the article of the final 5 without fancy light effects?

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....ed/rapture.jpg

Think those are the real actors for the final 5?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Did anyone notice the picture in the article of the final 5 without fancy light effects?

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....ed/rapture.jpg

Think those are the real actors for the final 5?

WOW! Looks like 2 women, 3 men. The last 2 on the right sorta look like Starbuck and Lee though.

I don't think it was played by the real actors though. To many stage crew would see it and the names would leak.

They even did this in Star Trek TNG using a stand in for Sela.

[RAILhead]

I figured it was about time for another pic of Tricia: