[James Thomson]

Hi,

I am going to be buying a G4 1ghz Powerbook with superdrive on Monday. I do a lot of audio based work and currently have a G3 400 Pismo machine. I am aware that there are fan noise issues with the G4 Powerbooks. As I do not get any fan noise at all with the G3 it may come as a shock with the G4.
However what I am interested in, is possible solutions for preventing the fans from engaging. I have also heard that there were more fan issues with the early production 1ghz models. The machine I am buying was manufactured on the 3rd week of 2003,so it is a very recent model.
Have many heat issues been solved ? I have heard that placing the G4 on a piece of marble tile completely stops any fan noise at all.
Any other ideas? Thanks!

James Thomson
London UK

[Eug]

Originally posted by James Thomson:
Hi,

I am going to be buying a G4 1ghz Powerbook with superdrive on Monday. I do a lot of audio based work and currently have a G3 400 Pismo machine. I am aware that there are fan noise issues with the G4 Powerbooks. As I do not get any fan noise at all with the G3 it may come as a shock with the G4.
However what I am interested in, is possible solutions for preventing the fans from engaging. I have also heard that there were more fan issues with the early production 1ghz models. The machine I am buying was manufactured on the 3rd week of 2003,so it is a very recent model.
Have many heat issues been solved ? I have heard that placing the G4 on a piece of marble tile completely stops any fan noise at all.
Any other ideas? Thanks!

James Thomson
London UK

Leave it in battery mode for the energy settings.

ie. Underclock it.

As for solving the fan problems with later versions, I doubt it. People here have gotten their units replaced totally... with the same results.

That marble thing sounds like hocus pocus - wouldn't offer much benefit over a standard flat polished table. It would be of benefit over a carpet or tablecloth, but so would a standard flat polished table.

[bamchum]

Originally posted by Eug:
As for solving the fan problems with later versions, I doubt it. People here have gotten their units replaced totally... with the same results.

I got my logic board and fans replaced and there's a huge improvement. The fans cycle on the way they always did (i.e., right-side fan comes on after about 20 minutes on AC power and hardly at all when on the battery) but they are much quieter. I can hardly hear the right-side one and the back fan is also much quieter. Before, they used to sound like vacuum cleaners and were driving me crazy. Now the right-side one is about as loud as the original hard drive on my Lombard used to be.

Others (Petra) have reported similar success. The fact that Apple replaced these parts (and knew what and how to replace them) indicates to me that there is every reason to believe that more recently produced machines will not have the fan problem as it's been described in these forums. Which is not to say that the fans will be absolutely silent, just that they probably won't be a big problem.

[iBorg]

Originally posted by bamchum:
I got my logic board and fans replaced and there's a huge improvement.

It's hard to say, since no stats are actually tracked, and people posting in forums usually post problems, rather than perfection, but I've read more posts stating that poeple sending their Ti Gigabooks in for repair resulted in no improvement in fan noise, and in some cases, fans even louder than before. Apple replaced my logic board (for video problems, which it solved) and my fan noise is unchanged. My fans appear to be working like you report yours to work after repair, so maybe I don't have a "fan noise problem," although it's not as quiet as I'd expected it to be.

There are positive results after logic board replacement, like CyberPet and bamchum, but they seem to be the exceptions rather than the rule. "Loudness" is so subjective that it's hard to compare - some people report "vacuum cleaner" loudness, and those units need to be repaired/replaced by Apple.

My fan(s) are about as loud as the original harddrive in my previous Pismo (before I swapped in the near-silent IBM Travelstar). My Ti Gigabook has a literally silent drive - too bad the fans aren't. OTOH, my Ti is never hot, hardly ever even warm to touch - definitely cooler than my Pismo 500 was.



iBorg

[Charles Bouldin]

Originally posted by Eug:

That marble thing sounds like hocus pocus - wouldn't offer much benefit over a standard flat polished table. It would be of benefit over a carpet or tablecloth, but so would a standard flat polished table.

Do some searches on other threads about this. The marble/granite tile under the powerbook helps a lot. Reasons (1) the granite has both a higher heat capacity and a higher (much higher) thermal conductivity than a typical wooden desk.
Putting granite or something similar under the Tibook keeps the heat from building up and getting trapped. It isn't much of a -portable-solution, but works well in my home office. Can't beat the price....you can get what you need at Home Depot for about $6. The

[bamchum]

Originally posted by iBorg:
"Loudness" is so subjective that it's hard to compare - some people report "vacuum cleaner" loudness, and those units need to be repaired/replaced by Apple.

Put it this way and assuming you know what the fan in the Lombard/Pismo sounds like:

If your TiBook sounds like the Lombard/Pismo fan, your fans are defective. They should be much quieter.

If your fan sounds about as loud as what your Lombard/Pismo hard drive sounded like, it's normal.

[wilburguy]

Ya wanna hear vacuum cleaner? Run your battery down to 25%, plug in the adapter and open a web browser and download anything. Try recording anything in Bias Peak while charging. It's so loud you nearly have to leave the room!

[Eug]

Originally posted by Charles Bouldin:
Do some searches on other threads about this. The marble/granite tile under the powerbook helps a lot. Reasons (1) the granite has both a higher heat capacity and a higher (much higher) thermal conductivity than a typical wooden desk.
Putting granite or something similar under the Tibook keeps the heat from building up and getting trapped. It isn't much of a -portable-solution, but works well in my home office. Can't beat the price....you can get what you need at Home Depot for about $6. The

That's why I said it wouldn't offer MUCH benefit over a standard flat POLISHED table.

A marble (or granite) surface will offer minimal benefit. Remember that the bottom of the TiBook is actually elevated off the surface of the table. Conductivity is reduced substantially.

[James Thomson]

I have been looking at the koolsink aluminum base for the Pwerbook G4. www.koolsink.com
Has anyone used one of these with their G4 Titanium ? I would love to know how much it reduces the fan activity in a 1ghz G4 Powerbook. Thanks.

James

[James Thomson]

Hi ,

Also another product which sounds very effective but perhaps doesn't look as nice is the cyber cooler 3 fan system powered by usb. www.cybercooler.com has anyone used this with their G4 Powerbook? How noisy is it? It sounds like it really reduces the temperature build up. Thanks.

James

[James Thomson]

Sorry the link for the cybercooler notebook product is:

http://cybercoolerinc.com/nk-360.html

its called the nk-360 and seems to be very successful in stopping the fan from coming on. Anyone here try it with a G4 Powerbook?

James

[xtal]

You may be able to alleviate the fan problem by reducing the temperature of the computer (like the granite solution above).

Perhaps a Podium Coolpad? (www.roadtools.com)

[scrmnn]

Originally posted by James Thomson:
I have been looking at the koolsink aluminum base for the Pwerbook G4. www.koolsink.com
Has anyone used one of these with their G4 Titanium ? I would love to know how much it reduces the fan activity in a 1ghz G4 Powerbook. Thanks.

James

The fan still goes on often.

[shrink]

The fan noise on my 15" 1Ghz is really bothering me and I've been searching the forums for possible solutions. However, I haven't heard anything about the product below. Does anyone know if it might help?:

http://www.bestbyte.net/Product.cfm?...yID=8&Keyword=

[Eug]

Originally posted by shrink:
The fan noise on my 15" 1Ghz is really bothering me and I've been searching the forums for possible solutions. However, I haven't heard anything about the product below. Does anyone know if it might help?:

http://www.bestbyte.net/Product.cfm?...yID=8&Keyword=

Huh? That's a 3" by 1" fan. What are you going to do with that?

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by Eug:
Huh? That's a 3" by 1" fan. What are you going to do with that?

Hahahahah

[eightoeight]

I have a TiBook 15" and I don't have any fan problems.

[Patcarla]

Originally posted by James Thomson:
Sorry the link for the cybercooler notebook product is:

http://cybercoolerinc.com/nk-360.html

its called the nk-360 and seems to be very successful in stopping the fan from coming on. Anyone here try it with a G4 Powerbook?

James

I don't get it.. Why would you want to use a pad with fans to stop the PB fan to come on?? I mean what's the point of replacing fan noise from your computer by fan noise from a pad??

[cambro]

...That marble thing sounds like hocus pocus - wouldn't offer much benefit over a standard flat polished table. It would be of benefit over a carpet or tablecloth, but so would a standard flat polished table.

It's not hocus pocus. The thermal "intertia" (not really, but it is a good way of thinking about it) of granite or marble is very, very low in comparison to something like, say, wood or formica.

Do this, place your Powerbook on wood desk, run it for a while, then pick it up. Run your hand over the desk. The desk will be distinctly warm in the footprint of the PB. In fact if you leave the PB long enough it will be the same temp as the bottom of the book. Thus, while the wood serves as a heat sink intially as it warms up, it rather quickly reaches the same temperature as the TiBook. In fact, BOTH may continue to warm up a bit becaue there are now effectively two heat sources for the intervening air (hence the fan kicks on).

Repeat this same experiment on a piece of granite, and you will not feel as warm a spot when you pick up the Tibook after the same amount of time. This is because the thermal "intertia" of granite prevents it from heating up as quickly. It simply does not conduct the Ti's heat into itself, but instead forces it into the intervening air which then flows away to be replaced by cooler air which cools the system.

Heat capacity and thermal conductivity are not hoccus pocus. I'm not saying that this is the solution too the Ti fan issue (who wants to carry around a big rock for cripes sake), but thermal properties of the object your book sits on will have a big influence on rate at which the Ti heats up. Do some experiments and prove it for yourself.

[LosJackal]

THIS IS MY RECOMMENDATION FOR YOU WITH G4 TiBooks

My wife's 800 G4 (DVI) PowerBook fan started coming on a lot. Most notable with iTunes running and doing some other minor things. It would come on quickly, but take a long time to shut off.

This was even with a CoolPad, which I had bought her a while ago. We considered buying a PodiumPad, a Cyber Cooler, and a Koolsink. We ultimately decided on the Koolsink because the site boasts great testimonials, and I was interested in seeing if such a simple device could indeed make the best use of Physics and do the job.

I'm surprised and pleased to report that the Koolsink works great. My wife has noticed that the PowerBook fan really doesn't come on anymore with normal use, and barely when she pushes it. She also now uses the Koolsink when she has the PowerBook on her laptop, since it keeps the heat off of her lap.

She purchased the aluminum model. Go get one.

[ae86_16v]

Okay, let me know where I go wrong.

So granite does takes longer to heat up right?

But using that logical doesn't it also take it longer to cool off?

So you could use it as long as it doesn't reach that "terminal" temperature, after that it would be no better than a wooden desk right?

[Eug]

Originally posted by cambro:
It's not hocus pocus. The thermal "intertia" (not really, but it is a good way of thinking about it) of granite or marble is very, very low in comparison to something like, say, wood or formica.

Do this, place your Powerbook on wood desk, run it for a while, then pick it up. Run your hand over the desk. The desk will be distinctly warm in the footprint of the PB. In fact if you leave the PB long enough it will be the same temp as the bottom of the book. Thus, while the wood serves as a heat sink intially as it warms up, it rather quickly reaches the same temperature as the TiBook. In fact, BOTH may continue to warm up a bit becaue there are now effectively two heat sources for the intervening air (hence the fan kicks on).

Repeat this same experiment on a piece of granite, and you will not feel as warm a spot when you pick up the Tibook after the same amount of time. This is because the thermal "intertia" of granite prevents it from heating up as quickly. It simply does not conduct the Ti's heat into itself, but instead forces it into the intervening air which then flows away to be replaced by cooler air which cools the system.

Heat capacity and thermal conductivity are not hoccus pocus. I'm not saying that this is the solution too the Ti fan issue (who wants to carry around a big rock for cripes sake), but thermal properties of the object your book sits on will have a big influence on rate at which the Ti heats up. Do some experiments and prove it for yourself.

Makes for nice theory, but the bottom line is that the benefit is small. The fan will still come on fairly frequently. To be honest, I haven't tried it with the TiBook, but I've tried PC laptops (older Celerons) on granite countertops. It made little difference with the same laptop vs. a nice flat polished hardwood desk. Maybe granite was slightly better I dunno, but the fan coming on was still a significant problem. YMMV.

And you of course hit on the bigger problem. Who wants to carry around a rock that weighs as much as the TiBook? I guess if it's just going to sit on a desk, you can't go wrong for $6 to try it (if you don't mind having a piece of stone on your desk).

[cambro]

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
Okay, let me know where I go wrong.

So granite does takes longer to heat up right?

But using that logical doesn't it also take it longer to cool off?

So you could use it as long as it doesn't reach that "terminal" temperature, after that it would be no better than a wooden desk right?

Yup, absolutely right. In fact, the old deal of heating up stones and then using them as little heaters in your sleeping back/tent/cave whatever is why this works..they do take a long time to cool. But, the point is that the rock under your PB a rock may not heat up very much at all because of the equillibrium reached with airflow/cooling. It will heat up, but it won't do so very much and will take a very long time (put a rock in a fire for a minute, flick it out and then touch it right away..now do this for a piece of wood!).

ANYWAY....as Eug points out. It's a good theory, but it probably won't be worth it. I keep my PB elevated off my desk a bit (I like a slight angle to the keyboard) and my Ghz fan STILL comes on all the time. I don't find it very loud at all, but it still comes on.

With processors in general, speed comes at a price and that price is heat. The manufacturing process of the G4 right now doesn't help either

[LosJackal]

Originally posted by cambro:
ANYWAY....as Eug points out. It's a good theory, but it probably won't be worth it. I keep my PB elevated off my desk a bit (I like a slight angle to the keyboard) and my Ghz fan STILL comes on all the time. I don't find it very loud at all, but it still comes on.

With processors in general, speed comes at a price and that price is heat. The manufacturing process of the G4 right now doesn't help either

It's the computer design that's a problem. My 17" PowerBook with a faster G4 processor doesn't get as hot as my wife's computer. Plus Apple engineered a really great vent/fan mechanism as well for it.

I believe the Aluminum also helps conduct the heat away from the hot spot.

Anyway, for those of you with problems with heat and fan on your TiBooks, try a Koolsink. I'm an engineer, and I'm really impressed how well it's working.

[macmod]

It�s like I�ve got a new PowerBook. For about eight months I�ve been running my 1Ghz TiBook at reduced CPU speed (666 Mhz) with marble tile on the desk to dissipate heat because the fan noise is ridiculously loud if run at full CPU speed.

Until now.

Of course it voids the warranty, but I put a tiny rheostat (trimmer) in line for each fan and tweaked down the speed to a point where I�ve traded some extra heat for peace and quiet and the ability to run at full 1Ghz without the jet engine noise that Apple didn�t care to do anything about.

Cost: $5 for two rheostats, you need a better electronic store than Fry�s to find small enough trimmers. In Burbank, CA, go to Electronic City at Maple and Burbank Blvd.

You need a trimmer that can take 50-100 ohms off the current. I used a 12 turn, 1k ohm 74w trimmer made by Spectral and sold through NTE Electronics. http://www.nteinc.com/pot_web/ After a few days of experimenting I�ve found the sweet spot is about 68 ohms. It�s important to make sure there is enough current to restart the fan after sleep or shutdown. It takes less power to keep an already turning fan going. The idea is to slow down the fans just a bit so it doesn�t disturb people in the next room.

Warning: this mod very much voids warranty and could fry your CPU and/or other internal components (although I think the CPU would shut down before it got hot enough to do damage. It�s no warmer inside or out than my previous PowerBooks)

A 50% faster computer for $5, but more importantly I can concentrate on my work. Until/unless, of course, the TiBook blows up in which case I�ve got an excuse to buy a 17� PB.

Now if someone knows a hack to increase airport range?

PS. I�ll post a photo of the hack if someone knows how to change my rating from �You may not post attachments�

[SwarmyCurve]

Forget those hideous cooling pad things, just get a Griffin iCurve. It elevates the Powerbook which is really beneficial ergonomically, plus it helps circulate air.

[DigitalEl]

(Nevermind)

[phobos]

Hello people. I'm an owner of a DVI 667 powerbook. I came with the solution of glass to stop the fans from kicking in. And it really works. I mean I don't even get the low speed of the fan!!! The 667 DVIs hadnt fan problems but it surely eliminates the fan! Before the glass thing I used my powerbook on a wooden table. Well after 20-30 minutes the fan would go off. And on the fast speed. So I bought a 1cm glass and everything is fine now.I run pretty intense programs for the CPU and hard disk (Cinema 4d and photoshop) and I sometimes get the low speed of the fan. And even now with the extremely warm weather of Greece I only get the small speed of the fan. So if you are in a cooler place things would be much better.
Anyway glass is cheaper than any commercial products. So try this first and if it doesn't work go buy a koolsink or whatever.
Hope this helps

[iWrite]

I have a 1Ghz Titanium with NO fan noise due to a very simple solution: Cyber3 TiBook Tote and Tilt through DrBott.com

Because it elevates the system off of any surface by about an inch and lets air get underneath and circulate thus allowing the system to remain cool it works very well. At $44 it's also very cheap. Don't get a cheap imitation -- get the Cyber3 as it matches the Titanium perfectly and it's solid metal.

Good luck.

[bartlett]

Originally posted by macmod:
It�s like I�ve got a new PowerBook. For about eight months I�ve been running my 1Ghz TiBook at reduced CPU speed (666 Mhz) with marble tile on the desk to dissipate heat because the fan noise is ridiculously loud if run at full CPU speed.

Until now.

Of course it voids the warranty, but I put a tiny rheostat (trimmer) in line for each fan and tweaked down the speed to a point where I�ve traded some extra heat for peace and quiet and the ability to run at full 1Ghz without the jet engine noise that Apple didn�t care to do anything about.

Cost: $5 for two rheostats, you need a better electronic store than Fry�s to find small enough trimmers. In Burbank, CA, go to Electronic City at Maple and Burbank Blvd.

You need a trimmer that can take 50-100 ohms off the current. I used a 12 turn, 1k ohm 74w trimmer made by Spectral and sold through NTE Electronics. http://www.nteinc.com/pot_web/ After a few days of experimenting I�ve found the sweet spot is about 68 ohms. It�s important to make sure there is enough current to restart the fan after sleep or shutdown. It takes less power to keep an already turning fan going. The idea is to slow down the fans just a bit so it doesn�t disturb people in the next room.

Warning: this mod very much voids warranty and could fry your CPU and/or other internal components (although I think the CPU would shut down before it got hot enough to do damage. It�s no warmer inside or out than my previous PowerBooks)

A 50% faster computer for $5, but more importantly I can concentrate on my work. Until/unless, of course, the TiBook blows up in which case I�ve got an excuse to buy a 17� PB.

Now if someone knows a hack to increase airport range?

PS. I�ll post a photo of the hack if someone knows how to change my rating from �You may not post attachments�

I'm nearly desperate enough to try. After sending my Gigabook in for repairs twice without resolution, I'm ready to take out the soldering iron. Could you post some pictures? Maybe dump them on imagestation.com and send a link, or something.

Thanks!

[spirko]

thanks for the imagestation tip. Here's a photo of my fan mod.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?i...19890026&idx=1