[SpaceMonkey]

^ You realize that post is from the campaign, right, and written by a third party (not the campaign)?

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

^ You realize that post is from the campaign, right, and written by a third party (not the campaign)?

Yes, which makes it disgusting that they use the "branding" from a memorial service for anything attached to the 2012 campaign. Especially after they claim the University was responsible for it.

Never let a tragedy go to waste is ringing true.

[SpaceMonkey]

It wasn't "attached" to the campaign any more than my posts here are "attached" to MacNN. I have seen no evidence that "together we thrive" was appropriated in any organized way by the Obama Campaign.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Please explicitly demonstrate the link between the use by a third-party post on an Obama campaign community site of the phrase "together we thrive" (a pretty common meme), and the appearance of the phrase on t-shirts produced by the University of Arizona.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

It wasn't "attached" to the campaign any more than my posts here are "attached" to MacNN. I have seen no evidence that "together we thrive" was appropriated in any organized way by the Obama Campaign.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Please explicitly demonstrate the link between the use by a third-party post on an Obama campaign community site of the phrase "together we thrive" (a pretty common meme), and the appearance of the phrase on t-shirts produced by the University of Arizona.

The pep rally was the start to the 2012 campaign. Period.

There is no way that the president and his staff are that involved in an event of such importance, and don't approve everything that happens.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

There is no way that the president and his staff are that involved in an event of such importance, and don't approve everything that happens.

False. And there is an impressive history of screw-ups across a number of administrations to demonstrate otherwise.

Even if I did grant you this, it doesn't demonstrate in any way that "together we thrive" has been appropriated as some kind of Obama campaign theme going back to 2008. So the university said "hey, we're passing out these shirts" and the White House said, "fine"? You'll have a point if that phrase actually starts appearing on Obama's 2012 campaign materials, but until then you're just as much a partisan shill as everyone else in this thread that you purport to admonish.

[andi*pandi]

Imagine—imagine for a moment, here was a young girl who was just becoming aware of our democracy; just beginning to understand the obligations of citizenship; just starting to glimpse the fact that some day she, too, might play a part in shaping her nation’s future. She had been elected to her student council. She saw public service as something exciting and hopeful. She was off to meet her congresswoman, someone she was sure was good and important and might be a role model. She saw all this through the eyes of a child, undimmed by the cynicism or vitriol that we adults all too often just take for granted.

I want to live up to her expectations. I want our democracy to be as good as Christina imagined it. I want America to be as good as she imagined it. All of us – we should do everything we can to make sure this country lives up to our children’s expectations.

A child can learn about democracy. Scouts are supposed to interview their local gov't to see how it works.

A representative can meet with constituents without the Popemobile. If every rep hired security and popemobiles I'm sure we'd all be berating them for spending taxpayer money or being inaccessable.

Crazy can't be deterred.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

False. And there is an impressive history of screw-ups across a number of administrations to demonstrate otherwise.

Even if I did grant you this, it doesn't demonstrate in any way that "together we thrive" has been appropriated as some kind of Obama campaign theme going back to 2008. So the university said "hey, we're passing out these shirts" and the White House said, "fine"? You'll have a point if that phrase actually starts appearing on Obama's 2012 campaign materials, but until then you're just as much a partisan shill as everyone else in this thread that you purport to admonish.

Man does it suck to be generalized based on no evidence, to be associated to someone that has absolutely no ties to you.

Wait for it....

[Athens]

Has any one looked at the photo of the shooter. Just looking at him he clearly has something wrong with him. This has less to do with politics and more to do with a mentally challenged person slipping through the system. Its unfortunate that poor political choices like that map with the bulls eyes might have had some importance on who was targeted, but normal people wouldn't have assumed that to a serious hit list.

I look at all the political back n forth going on here and I gotta ask this. Does any one really think any party would sanction such a attack. Would any party actually want people to get hurt. I can't see any party being for this, or members of any party. The guy acted a lone and does not represent anything.

I just wish Sarah would shut up, im tried of seeing her face on TV....

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

That should be the pep rall.. err memorial service slogan. You could make T-Shirts and Signs even.

Its from this



In case some from here have never watched the Simpsons.

[olePigeon]

I didn't catch that, you're being politically silenced.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

Man does it suck to be generalized based on no evidence, to be associated to someone that has absolutely no ties to you.

Wait for it....

Indeed, I think it's wrong to blame Palin for somehow inspiring the shooting (and I've claimed no such thing). If this was some kind of bizarre tit-for-tat, does that mean you are comfortable backing away from your own similarly unsubstantiated assertion? Great.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Indeed, I think it's wrong to blame Palin for somehow inspiring the shooting (and I've claimed no such thing). If this was some kind of bizarre tit-for-tat, does that mean you are comfortable backing away from your own similarly unsubstantiated assertion? Great.

I am still waiting for the OP to chime in. Since the child is buried now and one of the victims is blaming Palin, I figured he would be ALL IN.

PS- “Rocking America and Rocking the Vote” I sure hope those rumors on the shirt aren't true.

[besson3c]

I think the OP is just about done with this thread, because it sucks. The OP is tired of rants, attacks, vitriol, two-wrongs-make-a-right arguments, putting participants under microscopes, and other general suckiness. If the OP wants suckiness he would watch Saved By the Bell.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

I am still waiting for the OP to chime in. Since the child is buried now and one of the victims is blaming Palin, I figured he would be ALL IN.

PS- “Rocking America and Rocking the Vote” I sure hope those rumors on the shirt aren't true.

Well, since all references that I've seen to that comes from a single article on "Canada Free Press" that provides no attribution for its claim, I'm not putting any stock in it. I mean, the site has a running "Countdown until Obama leaves Office" and features such other gems of articles like "Will American Liberals Now Destroy Our Constitution & Rule of Law?"

Here's a great article where they hypothesize that 9/11 was part of a mafia conspiracy: http://web.archive.org/web/200507140...over071105.htm

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think the OP is just about done with this thread, because it sucks. The OP is tired of rants, attacks, vitriol, two-wrongs-make-a-right arguments, putting participants under microscopes, and other general suckiness. If the OP wants suckiness he would watch Saved By the Bell.

Winnah.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Well, since all references that I've seen to that comes from a single article on "Canada Free Press" that provides no attribution for its claim, I'm not putting any stock in it. I mean, the site has a running "Countdown until Obama leaves Office" and features such other gems of articles like "Will American Liberals Now Destroy Our Constitution & Rule of Law?"

Here's a great article where they hypothesize that 9/11 was part of a mafia conspiracy: http://web.archive.org/web/200507140...over071105.htm

I know exactly where it is from, which is why I posted it. Wild, baseless, accusations and all.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think the OP is just about done with this thread, because it sucks. The OP is tired of rants, attacks, vitriol, two-wrongs-make-a-right arguments, putting participants under microscopes, and other general suckiness. If the OP wants suckiness he would watch Saved By the Bell.

Just so we're clear, you DO realize the thread would have likely taken a different direction had it not been started with:

...their is speculation that he was some tea party nut.

Granted, it would have devolved into another left vs. right argument eventually (what doesn't around here?) but at least it would have had a fighting chance.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

I know exactly where it is from, which is why I posted it. Wild, baseless, accusations and all.

So you are...what? Posting this ironically? Maybe you need to work on your delivery so it doesn't come across as sincere, otherwise you're just fanning the flames.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

So you are...what? Posting this ironically? Maybe you need to work on your delivery so it doesn't come across as sincere, otherwise you're just fanning the flames.

I got what I wanted.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Just so we're clear, you DO realize the thread would have likely taken a different direction had it not been started with:


Granted, it would have devolved into another left vs. right argument eventually (what doesn't around here?) but at least it would have had a fighting chance.

Yes, I agree.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If the OP wants suckiness he would watch Saved By the Bell.

Heretic!

[olePigeon]

If only there was a national network of television, radio, magazines, and newspapers that conservatives could use to voice their opinion. Then maybe the liberals wouldn't be able to politically silence them.

If I were a conservative, I would use the liberals' malformed judgement to point out that my side would never do that; then quickly explain we shouldn't bring politics into it, hoping no one notices the hypocrisy.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

No, just the death threats against her which may be at an all-time high. Should you be accountable for this?

Why would I be? I didn't use crosshairs on a poster, or any other statements that implied violence.

EDIT: Well, except for advocating the oral rape of Allen West, which I still think is a good idea. I'm not fond of war criminals.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

If only there was a national network of television, radio, magazines, and newspapers that conservatives could use to voice their opinion. Then maybe the liberals wouldn't be able to politically silence them.

If I were a conservative, I would use the liberals' malformed judgement to point out that my side would never do that; then quickly explain we shouldn't bring politics into it, hoping no one notices the hypocrisy.

You tried that already, we ignored you.

[Lint Police]

Well, looks like Kelsey Grammer made him do it.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Has any one looked at the photo of the shooter. Just looking at him he clearly has something wrong with him.

Please post a photo of yourself, we should all have a chance to decide whether or not you clearly have something wrong with you.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Heretic!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think the OP is just about done with this thread, because it sucks. The OP is tired of rants, attacks, vitriol, two-wrongs-make-a-right arguments, putting participants under microscopes, and other general suckiness. If the OP wants suckiness he would watch Saved By the Bell.

I think the OP being surprised by the outcome of this thread is completely disingenuous.
After all, he was instrumental in steering this debate.

-t

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

He targeted Giffords because of her political beliefs; whether he's crazy or not is irrelevant. You lose. Again.

Which political beliefs OldMan? Would it be her support of the Second Amendment right to own and bear arms, harsher immigration controls, or tighter border security?

CALLING ALL TOOLS...CALLING ALL TOOLS...WE'VE GOT A CODE RED TRAGEDY TO EXPLOIT! ALL HANDS ON DECK!!!

This whole campaign against rhetoric is starting to get a little too 'Demolition Man' for me.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

This whole campaign against rhetoric is starting to get a little too 'Demolition Man' for me.

he doesn't know how to use the sea shells.

[Lint Police]

Such hate.

Fuller then swiveled in his chair, raised his camera and took a photo of the pro-gun speaker, muttering, "You're dead," according to Joel Tranter, who was sitting behind him.

"I told him, 'You need to be respectful. You need to calm down,'" Tranter said. "He said, 'What'd you do, vote for this guy?'"

As police officers approached to escort Fuller outside, he turned and shouted at the audience: "You whores!"

Man wounded in Tucson shooting arrested at meeting

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

This whole campaign against rhetoric is starting to get a little too 'Demolition Man' for me.

Why aren't there more movies starring both Wesley Snipes and Sly Stallone? Before Snipes was arrested, that is...

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Every time I see Sarah Palin talking, I swear to god I feel like im watching a female Hitler talking. She is so fake.

And you think listening to Obama iS different? His "S's" at the endS of his wordS are aS irritating aS scraping fingernailS againSt a blackboard.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

And you think listening to Obama iS different? His "S's" at the endS of his wordS are aS irritating aS scraping fingernailS againSt a blackboard.

Have you noticed that they talk like that in the Matrix movies too?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Why aren't there more movies starring both Wesley Snipes and Sly Stallone? Before Snipes was arrested, that is...

I think the problem was the whole telepathic sex thing just didn't take off.

[stupendousman]

I wonder if all this unprecedented angry rhetoric will influence Palin followers to organize and start a wave of crime, maybe like bombings and the sort, in protest of government inaction on their priorities.

I mean, if so, we'll really be in some previously unseen, really scary and dangerous times.

So far though...really nothing.

[Wiskedjak]

Here's what I think:
The current trend of politicians painting their opponents as threats to society serves little purpose other than to lower the level of political discourse to mud-slinging with politicians no longer saying why we should vote for them but rather that we shouldn't vote for their opponent because they're going to destroy our society.

I'd like to see THAT go away. It's just lazy politics.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Here's what I think:
"The current trend..."

What "current trend?" It's a "trend" that's been going on since at least the time of the Roman Empire.

I'm not sure at this point you are going to do anything to change this. Normally, the side that is doing the least to appease the voting populace are the loudest in opposition to this type of harsh criticism, because it hurts them the worse.

Really, this is a tempest in a teastorm. The left and the media either don't know their history (see my tongue in cheek response just above)

It's just lazy politics.

True, but often times people confuse genuine harsh political criticism with "mud slinging". Pointing out the huge errors in the policies of your opponent in agressive, sarcastic and negative tones isn't really mudslinging. Sometimes, the truth does indeed hurt. Civility is only good if the goal is to work together. Most people running for office aren't looking to work with the person they are engaging with - they are looking to replace them.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

What "current trend?" It's a "trend" that's been going on since at least the time of the Roman Empire.

The trend is that it appears to have been getting more pronounced. Opponents are no longer just opponents; they're the enemy.

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

I'm not sure at this point you are going to do anything to change this.

I'm certain you're right, but it doesn't hurt to hope for voters that will demand more from the politicians that purport to represent them.

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

True, but often times people confuse genuine harsh political criticism with "mud slinging".

Agreed. I'm certain politician quite often mistake their mud slinging for harsh political criticism.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

And you think listening to Obama iS different? His "S's" at the endS of his wordS are aS irritating aS scraping fingernailS againSt a blackboard.

I can tolerate him a bit more. He sounds like a broken record at a times. But I don't see any danger from him. Palin just gives me the creeps like if she was the anti christ or the devil herself. She actually scares me.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I can tolerate him a bit more. He sounds like a broken record at a times. But I don't see any danger from him. Palin just gives me the creeps like if she was the anti christ or the devil herself. She actually scares me.

I suggest avoiding this page then:

Boing Boing - The Wall of Nightmares

[besson3c]

Van Susteren, Malkin, Hannity, Beck, Carville, and Maddow attempt to be civil

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

The trend is that it appears to have been getting more pronounced. Opponents are no longer just opponents; they're the enemy.

As opposed to ancient Rome? Et tu, Brute?

As opposed to the founding of our nation?

As opposed to our differences that ended in the "war between the states?"

As opposed to the sixties where some of our current President's friends decided that they needed to bomb and destroy the property of those they opposed politically? Riots in the streets, anarchy, etc..

Seriously, things are pretty calm these days compared to most other times in history. Why it seems more pronounced to some is because there's a large segment of the ruling class that's pretty much ignoring the majority of what voters seem to want, and right now the aggressive resistance to being ruled over has become pretty effective in getting the "little people" involved with the process and getting results with no real sign of violence. This scares a lot of powerful people because it threatens their power. I say it's a good thing.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

As opposed to ancient Rome? Et tu, Brute?

As opposed to the founding of our nation?

As opposed to our differences that ended in the "war between the states?"

As opposed to the sixties where some of our current President's friends decided that they needed to bomb and destroy the property of those they opposed politically? Riots in the streets, anarchy, etc..

I wouldn't know, I obviously wasn't around in any of those time periods. But I *can* say that, as compared to the 80's, today's politics seem much more filled with rhetoric and hyperbole.

[Dork.]

Go ahead and get rid of the rhetoric, but we need the hyperbole.

Hyperbole is the best thing in the history of the whole universe!

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I wouldn't know, I obviously wasn't around in any of those time periods. But I *can* say that, as compared to the 80's, today's politics seem much more filled with rhetoric and hyperbole.

Yeah, none in 1984.

YouTube - Walter Mondale TV Ad: "Orbiting"

YouTube - Mondale/Ferraro Commercial 1984

[finboy]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

As opposed to ancient Rome? Et tu, Brute?

As opposed to the founding of our nation?

As opposed to our differences that ended in the "war between the states?"

As opposed to the sixties where some of our current President's friends decided that they needed to bomb and destroy the property of those they opposed politically? Riots in the streets, anarchy, etc..

Seriously, things are pretty calm these days compared to most other times in history.

Compared with recent history, even:

No justice, no peace.

[Buckaroo]

This proves how wrong the Left Wing Liberals are. It was Reagan that brought the USSR to it's knees without firing a single bullet, and spending a FRACTION of the money that Obama wasted in 2 years. Obama is a disgrace to this country. He single handedly has done more destruction than any president in history.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

This proves how wrong the Left Wing Liberals are. It was Reagan that brought the USSR to it's knees without firing a single bullet, and spending a FRACTION of the money that Obama wasted in 2 years. Obama is a disgrace to this country. He single handedly has done more destruction than any president in history.

and... scene!

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

This proves how wrong the Left Wing Liberals are. It was Reagan that brought the USSR to it's knees without firing a single bullet, and spending a FRACTION of the money that Obama wasted in 2 years. Obama is a disgrace to this country. He single handedly has done more destruction than any president in history.

The Soviet Union fell apart all by itself because it was an economically disastrous system, that was unsustainable! It's sphere of influence had been in decline for quite some time already, when the pseudo cowboy Ronald Reagan simply transferred his cowboy rhetoric to the White House, and convinced the gullible, such as yourself, that he had something to do with it.

[Laminar]

Yeah, Obama's a jerk for starting those wars.