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BadKosh · Feb 16, 2011, 09:23 AM

Last year in Manassas, VA, an illegal alien, drunk and using a fraudulent drivers license struck and killed a well liked nun. He had been caught by the cops and handed over to the Feds 18 months earlier. Why was he back on the streets?

Last week, an illegal killed and hacked up 5 people in Manassas.. This guy was also previously captured and handed over to the Feds. Again, the illegal ended up back on the street.

The Board of supervisors in Manassas has been asking for the location of the over 3000 illegals turned over to the Feds but the INS says they can't tell because of 'privacy issues' of the illegals!! WTF??

Why were they released back into the US? Who's calling the shots, Big Sis?? How does this benefit US citizens for this practice to be used? Apparently they are doing this all over. That sucks. Another thing the Feds are doing that hurts the good guys.

lpkmckenna · Feb 16, 2011, 11:29 PM

It's called "due process." Look it up.

iMOTOR · Feb 17, 2011, 12:17 AM

I could be totally wrong on this but, last time I checked, when you get arrested, the judge at your arraignment has to grant the defendant a bail. Are the feds bypassing this and just releasing these people automatically?

If a citizen is arrested and can’t post bail, they get to sit in jail, due process has nothing to do with it.

OldManMac · Feb 17, 2011, 12:21 AM

Then don't squawk when they cut law enforcement officers, due to budget cuts. This is nothing new, but we all want something for nothing, don't we?

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Feb 17, 2011, 02:00 AM

Yes because the ONLY thing in any budget that can possibly be cut is the police. Oh yes, and firefighters. Oh yes, and any other hotbutton.

Meanwhile, in the next thread you'll squawk about how we need a few dozen new gigantic bureaucracies tossing record new amounts of cash down blackholes, created by 2,000 page bills that no one has read.

It's so easy to see how a bunch of dipshit politicians can so easily pull the wool over people's eyes when they fall so easily and completely for the oldest tricks in the book.

It's like the drunk who actually has his braindead spouse convinced that the only 'cuts' he can make to the family budget is rent and food. "Oh no! Please don't stop paying for those! Nevermind! Sorry I brought up the budget subject!" Yeah, never mind the booze, the gambling habit, the drug habit, the hookers... The only thing that can possibly be cut are the hotbutton items. Figures doesn't it, the kind of DOLT that falls for that.

Taliesin · Feb 17, 2011, 03:53 AM

Illegal aliens? Damn, how could I've missed the big news of first contact?

BadKosh · Feb 17, 2011, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

It's called "due process." Look it up.

Illegal aliens not being deported as the law requires is not due process. The feds are screwing up. They need to close the borders so the drug dealers can't sell you any more pot.

SpaceMonkey · Feb 17, 2011, 03:34 PM

This article is old, so I don't know if the issues are still the same, but...

Beefed-up enforcement at the U.S.-Mexico border since Sept. 11, 2001, has substantially increased the number of arrests of illegal immigrants, but tens of thousands of captured non-Mexicans continue to be released into the United States because there is no place to hold them, according to experts and immigration officials.

The vast majority simply slip away inside the country after being issued "Notices to Appear" for a deportation hearing -- documents known to Border Patrol agents as "Notices to Disappear." The success of border crossers who stay in the United States through this "catch-and-release" process has encouraged others who hope to enter the country the same way.

Sounds like a simple capacity issue.

BadKosh · Feb 17, 2011, 03:51 PM

The Manassas Board of Supervisors just wants to know where they are since being turned over. The Feds have ignored the requests. The Feds say its a 'privacy matter' of the illegals, but if you or I go to court and are found guilty, its a matter of public record.

SpaceMonkey · 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

The Manassas Board of Supervisors just wants to know where they are since being turned over. The Feds have ignored the requests. The Feds say its a 'privacy matter' of the illegals, but if you or I go to court and are found guilty, its a matter of public record.

Except according to the article I linked to, they haven't been to court at all, just summoned. I'm sure the "notice to appear" is a public record. The problem is they cannot be detained prior to appearing in court because of lack of capacity, and then they simply don't appear in court. The practical answer to the Manassas Board of Supervisors' question is, "Wherever it is that ICE removes the handcuffs," and I would say that their demand is a bit disingenuous and/or ignorant because beyond that the Feds don't know.

BadKosh · Feb 18, 2011, 09:23 AM

Well thats kind of the point. Irresponsible feds, letting criminals back on the streets to cause more violence. This costs local governments more money to have to recapture these lawbreakers and the feds are undermining the whole process.

SpaceMonkey · Feb 18, 2011, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Well thats kind of the point. Irresponsible feds, letting criminals back on the streets to cause more violence. This costs local governments more money to have to recapture these lawbreakers and the feds are undermining the whole process.

Then we need more capacity to detain them. It's not about "irresponsibility" it's about lack of resources.

Chongo · Feb 18, 2011, 11:28 AM

You think it's bad in VA? Try living in a border state. The cops out here routinely arrest the same "undocumented immigrants." multiple times. It doesn't make the news until there's a fatal crash or felony.

finboy · Feb 18, 2011, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Yes because the ONLY thing in any budget that can possibly be cut is the police. Oh yes, and firefighters. Oh yes, and any other hotbutton.

Don't forget the Washington Monument!!!!!! We'll have to close the Washington Monument!!!!!!

finboy · Feb 18, 2011, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

It's called "due process." Look it up.

I thought "due process" only applied to people after they were tagged for criminal trespass. DURING their criminal trespass, I'm not sure "due process" prevents us from taking them back to the border and saying "here."

Being here illegally is, like, a crime in progress. Releasing them back into the US seems kinda dumb. The only reasonable alternative is to hold them until their trial comes up, but doing THAT creates problems because our jail system is cleaner and safer than just living in the open in many parts of Mexico. So there's no disincentive effect really. A conundrum.

finboy · Feb 18, 2011, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Then we need more capacity to detain them. It's not about "irresponsibility" it's about lack of resources.

Well, there are a whole bunch of them down at Home Depot, right now, and I bet they could figure out how to set up chain link fences in flood plains.

BadKosh · Feb 18, 2011, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Then we need more capacity to detain them. It's not about "irresponsibility" it's about lack of resources.

How about returning to their own crappy countries?

I would like them to get a visible head mark/ tattoo so it would be easier to spot return illegals. Its not like lawbreakers would ever be 'good citizens.'

The Final Dakar · Feb 18, 2011, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

I would like them to get a visible head mark/ tattoo so it would be easier to spot return illegals.

*trying very hard not to invoke Godwin's Law*

SpaceMonkey · Feb 18, 2011, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

How about returning to their own crappy countries?

Due process. I assume you see the pitfalls of a system that would enable law enforcement agencies in the United States to deport people at will without a fair hearing of the facts surrounding their capture and the legal status for their residency in the country? (cue Dakar's invocation of Godwin's law)

SpaceMonkey · Feb 18, 2011, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

I thought "due process" only applied to people after they were tagged for criminal trespass. DURING their criminal trespass, I'm not sure "due process" prevents us from taking them back to the border and saying "here."

Due process of law is a principle that extends across the criminal justice system. The principle that prevents police from shooting a suspect during a "crime in progress" (except under specific circumstances) is the same one that prevents them from deporting a suspect on the spot. Police are not judge, jury and executioner. Suspects cannot be "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," i.e. a deportation hearing where the facts of the case are heard.

Wiskedjak · Feb 18, 2011, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

They need to close the borders so the drug dealers can't sell you any more pot.

So that they stop stealing that work from honest, hard-working Americans?

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Feb 19, 2011, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

) is the same one that prevents them from deporting a suspect on the spot. Police are not judge, jury and executioner. Suspects cannot be "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," i.e. a deportation hearing where the facts of the case are heard.

Red herring. Police weren't trying to deport anyone 'on the spot' merely handing over illegals to Federal authorities who do have the power to deport and enforce immigration laws.

Oh wait that's right , poor, poor impoverished Feds can't be expected to do their jobs, because you're not giving them enough of your paycheck.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Feb 19, 2011, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Due process.

No, red herring.

"He had been caught by the cops and handed over to the Feds..."

"This guy was also previously captured and handed over to the Feds. "

"....has been asking for the location of the over 3000 illegals turned over to the Feds"

ThinkInsane · Feb 19, 2011, 03:20 PM

Here's a situation I can relate from personal experience on this topic. I was at work one night when I got a call from a doctor regarding concerns he had with his patient. This man, an Iraqi national, had needed heart catheterization. He claimed he got off a bus here while traveling from Buffalo and NYC. Although the doctor confirmed his health condition was legitimate, it seemed that was the only part of his story that was. A lot of the information he gave conflicted with other stuff, and it was suspected that he maybe be trying to skip out on his substantial new medical bill. So I run the guy, to see what info I can find, and what I come up with is a warrant from Georgia for failing to register as a sex offender (he'd diddled a nine year old) as well as deportation order from ICE.

Next step, I call to get the city cops involved, and after a half hour of arguing with a lieutenant, he agrees to send someone up. We get his identity confirmed, they find out that the great state of Georgia won't pay to transport a sex offender back to their state, he's our problem now, so the next call is to ICE. They tell us to keep him in custody, and they'll have someone from the Buffalo office come pick him up the next day. The next day rolls around, and we've now been paying someone overtime for 18 hrs to babysit this jackass. About 3:00 we get a call from Immigration and Customs telling us that they don't have anyone to send to pick him up, so we should just go ahead and release him if he's ready for discharge, and "We'll try and catch up with him later". Do you see what happened there? ICE told us to release a sex offender, carrying false identification, who had been running away from his deportation for almost three years, back into the community. Awesome, thanks for the help. Oh, and he never paid his $10000 bill either.

ghporter · Feb 19, 2011, 06:39 PM

I think ICE has more taskings than people. It's pretty obvious here in South Texas; Border Patrol folks hand over people who've waded across on a regular basis, and ICE has to do background checks, put the wader in confinement, figure out where he/she belongs, and eventually get him/her there. We have "immigration prisons" in Texas that have people in confinement for effectively unlimited amounts of time, regardless of release warrants, medical conditions, etc. because ICE doesn't have the staffing and management to deal with them. And while ICE is busy paying room and board for Joe "I want to make some money to send home to my epicly poor family," folks that make it into the US farther than others manage to avoid background checks altogether.

If you're north of Dallas, don't expect ICE to have a clue how to handle a Spanish speaking alien; unless you're in Detroit/Dearborn or Chicago, don't expect anyone in the federal government to be able to speak Farsi or Arabic, let alone have a clue about how to deal with what they do and how to manage them.

It is almost certain that a whole lot of aliens in the US are hiding from something. Secret police in Eastern Europe, what they did under Saddam's orders, what they did behind some other despot's back... But since so many people get their panties in a knot over Joe "My family is really poor and I want to work" just being here, ICE doesn't have enough focus on really bad people to do something effective with them.

SpaceMonkey · Feb 21, 2011, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Red herring. Police weren't trying to deport anyone 'on the spot' merely handing over illegals to Federal authorities who do have the power to deport and enforce immigration laws.

I wasn't saying they were. I was responding to the suggestion of finboy and BadKosh that they try that. Get over yourself. I think ThinkInsane and ghporter have done an excellent job of providing some context for the Federal capacity problems I was referring to, your oh-so-biting humor about Federal incompetence aside.

finboy · Feb 21, 2011, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

Well, there are a whole bunch of them down at Home Depot, right now, and I bet they could figure out how to set up chain link fences in flood plains.

Give them some building materials and they could build their own refugee camps and wait there until their asylum applications were processed. With 30,000+ deaths in 2 years or something, I think they've got a good argument if they're from the border states of Mexico. Green cards for everyone!!!!

ebuddy · Feb 21, 2011, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

Give them some building materials and they could build their own refugee camps and wait there until their asylum applications were processed. With 30,000+ deaths in 2 years or something, I think they've got a good argument if they're from the border states of Mexico. Green cards for everyone!!!!

But...but it takes an average 3 years to get into the US legally. STOP THE MADNESS!

BadKosh · Feb 22, 2011, 05:01 PM

Hmmmm....... This might work.

News Radio 1200 WOAI San Antonio Texas

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Feb 23, 2011, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I wasn't saying they were. I was responding to the suggestion of finboy and BadKosh that they try that.

They didn't suggest that, you made it up with one of your typical shifting the goal posts 'arguments' that goes for the cheap 'gotcha' rather than stick to the facts. The whole subject is about illegals turned over to the feds. Feds DO have the power to deport people in the country without a visa. Therefore your redherring about police deporting people was just that. And due process has nothing to do with it any more than you being tossed out of a country you were in illegally does.

finboy · Feb 25, 2011, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I wasn't saying they were. I was responding to the suggestion of finboy and BadKosh that they try that.

Tell ya what - go to Mexico as a US citizen and see how long it takes to get thrown out.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Feb 25, 2011, 07:27 PM

Or anywhere else in the world if you sneak into their country illegally and commit crimes while there.

This subject isn't 'due process' it's "NO process". But of course, that's the game being played- we're all supposed to accept 'no process' IE: 'illegals get to do whatever and ALL law enforcement can do nothing or else we call it racism' in the United States, even though no other country on earth operates that way.