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Judge_Fire · Jul 13, 2003, 04:36 PM

The new G5 is nice, but too big for my living room. My digital hub needs to be display-less and preferably smaller than my couch.

A surprising number of people I know (including me) have fallen for the really nice PC mini-towers, like this un-uglyish piece of engineering. They're quite amazing, considering the hideous legacy of noisy beige PC towers.

But I want my Mac OS X, dammit!

If I were able to beam a design concept as a shared dream for the Jobs/Tevanian/Ive guys to go for right away, which one of the following form factors would your prefer?

(I've kindly included a status quo- option, too.)

J

CIA · Jul 13, 2003, 05:21 PM

It's small, and not too expandable, but I wouldn't have a problem putting that on my desk..... If I was a PC user that is..
APPLE! RE-RELEASE THE CUBE AS A SUB $1,000 COMPUTER!

tikki · Jul 13, 2003, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by CIA:
APPLE! RE-RELEASE THE CUBE AS A SUB $1,000 COMPUTER!

I don't think they heard you.

reader50 · Jul 13, 2003, 08:05 PM

The poll doesn't have the more interesting option:

Make the case two inches taller to accomodate the 2nd optical bay, two more internal HD bays, and 1-2 more expansion slots. The larger motherboard would even have space for a couple ATA-133 connectors for existing hard drives, so you don't have to buy all-new SATA drives for your new G5.

We really need two pro desktop lines, like the Tower / Cube breakdown. Today it would be Xstation / miniTower perhaps.

theory · Jul 13, 2003, 08:27 PM

I miss the cube. It was a great but
overpriced machine. I wish they would
bring it back but at a more moderate
price. They wouldn't do that though.

n_lim · Jul 13, 2003, 08:35 PM

I miss the cube also, it was the mac that pushed me over the edge and made me really start thinking seriously about switching. There seems to be a huge amount of nostalgia for the cube, but is that desire only amongst macheads like us? And do we make up enough people (sales) for apple to make a cube redux a profitable product? I am still undecided if the average non-fanatic mac user, or perhaps more importantly, pc user, would ever understand why apple would re-release a computer that in some people's eyes failed. Then again, if you look at what nike has done by reissuing certain collectors shoes under the retro line the idea could be pretty promising.

I would buy a G5 cube if it were around $1200-$1500 and had decent specs with about the same level of expandability as the original.

Cipher13 · Jul 13, 2003, 09:35 PM

Uh, small form factor? With even LESS internal space than the current model? What, you wanna remove the hard drives?

Judge_Fire · 03:34 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Uh, small form factor? With even LESS internal space than the current model? What, you wanna remove the hard drives?

You have too much wide open space on your side of the globe

reader50, too: I'd love Apple making the pro tower even bigger to allow for all the needed fast disks for video production, for example, but offering the choice at the other end of the size spectrum, too. Not a new Cube, or any other marketing spectacle - just an option in the Power Mac section of the store: S or XL Enclosure?

You lose in internal expandability, but gain in size and perhaps a marginally lower cost.

J

Judge_Fire · Jul 14, 2003, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by n_lim:
I am still undecided if the average non-fanatic mac user, or perhaps more importantly, pc user, would ever understand why apple would re-release a computer that in some people's eyes failed.

Like I said in my above post, I'd be cautious about hyping it up as new/old product - I'd rather go for an alternative PowerMac enclosure option.

I think PC users in particular are working up a serious minitower fever - see the Hexus Small Form Factor Forum for an insight into that world.

J

roders · 06:38 AM

I luv My Shuttle (XPC), sold my Mac to get it

(feels heavy pangs of guilt!) Bring back the (slightly cheaper) Cube and I'll come back 2 the Mac.

Judge_Fire · 07:05 AM

Hmm.. I wonder whether there'd be any idea in this scheme:

Keep case size small, but offer display card AGP, 1 PCI-X and 1 internal drive option in the same shared space, as either/or options.

You couldn't have all, but the one you'd prefer.

This would require a cheap, good-enough graphics chipset on the motherboard.

J

[edit: added display card musings, didn't want to post a new message]

Cipher13 · Jul 19, 2003, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Judge_Fire:
You have too much wide open space on your side of the globe

Rephrasing my post, I don't think Apple *could* make the G5 any smaller. That was my point.

Take a look at the internal design... that thing is packed, TIGHT.

It's huge, and yet STILL has only minimal expansion. Remove the PCI-X slots? Negated by the processor spacing; you won't fit two G5's in there if you cut it down any more by removing PCI-X slots.

The G5 isn't getting any smaller any time soon.

Judge_Fire · Jul 19, 2003, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Rephrasing my post, I don't think Apple *could* make the G5 any smaller. That was my point.

The Cube had an external power supply, which helped keep it smaller and cooler. This could be done in future models.

Shuttle manages to cool the latest AMD chips within their XPC enclosure and they're pretty hot. I'm not sure if the G5 runs hotter, though.

J

Commodus · Jul 19, 2003, 10:46 AM

The main challenge to an SFF G5 isn't so much what heat it generates as how to cool a G5 quietly. The main reason the PowerMac G5 has an aluminum case, massive heatsinks, and so on is to avoid running the system fans at high speed. An SFF G5 (not necessarily shaped like the Cube) would probably need a fan running much more often.

cube-dude · Jul 20, 2003, 06:47 AM

"The G5 Cube, A Perfect Mid-Level Mac?" - this article addresses what some of us are looking for in a compact Power Mac.

The Placid Casual · Jul 20, 2003, 07:11 AM

I don't think Apple will bring back the cube... at least I hope they don't, as it was overall, a total debacle and I don't like going back to suck things... I would prefer Apple to 'learn and evolve the concept'.

What I would like to see is a 'modular' Powermac...

You could go to the store and select which 'modules' you need...

You get a 'base' module with a G5 chip, RAM slots etc and the graphics card only, you could then get a a 'Hard Drive module', an 'optical Drive module, a 'PCI Module' etc, according to your needs...

I am no engineer, but perhaps it could have a fibre kind of connection, or some kind of Hypertransport connection.

It would be great as you could just buy what you need, and expand it as and when you need to, without being stuck with a 'huge' and expensive machine with features that you may never need.

it would be cool if you could also perhaps hook together a few of the 'CPU' modules and create a cluster...

A dream I know, but I think it would work, and answer a lot of the needs mentioned in this, and other threads...

x user · Jul 21, 2003, 12:41 PM

The G5 could be made a lot smaller, first of all, make only room for one processor, one full size AGP, one PCI or PCI-X, a laptop sized slot load superdrive, and room for two 2.5" HD's (7200rpm's are out).

What do we end up with? A kick ass machine thats harder to expand... ---> G4 Cube.

Lateralus · Jul 21, 2003, 01:17 PM

G5 Cube, please.

All I want/need is an open AGP 8x slot and a slew of ports.

all2ofme · Jul 21, 2003, 05:05 PM

I'd like:

- Space for two hard drives.
- No optical drive.
- Twin G5s.
- Decent quality video card (though it needn't be anything fancy - just good colour and refresh rates)

I think a horizontal version with cooling through the top of the machine would be right for me. I want a machine which I can't see that is fast for Photoshop work, will play my mp3s and which will run a nightly rsync to back up my laptop's important files.

My laptop can do the rest.

billybob128 · Jul 22, 2003, 07:46 AM

- No optical drive.

maybe just me but how could you live without an optical drive?

[quote]"The G5 Cube, A Perfect Mid-Level Mac?" - this article addresses what some of us are looking for in a compact Power Mac[/qoute]
now that would be something that i would buy something small powerfull enough to do 45-50% of the jobs most computers do and most of all cheaper couldnt think of anything better than that

darkmatter · Jul 22, 2003, 10:00 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by billybob128:
[B]maybe just me but how could you live without an optical drive?

Hi, in my case, 95% of my work I/O transfers and storage is done throught and with the network. If I could start OSX over the network I would be very happy. 80% of all my SW data CDs are used to install programs and operating systems

I don't hear music with my PB and DVD films are played seldom. (Please forgive me)

I think that the very first step of living without optical drives is the iPod and Apple Music Store.

These doesn't mean that I think optical drives aren't useful in todays industry.

If there would be a small form factor very quick PC to crunch data as quick as possible with the stability of a great OS for a reasonable price, it would be great. I share ideas with "The Placid Casual".

It would be very interesting to analyze if Apple, parallel to LCD screens, would offer mouse,keyboard,cd/dvd/rw/etc,memory as options...

Kind Regards
Darkmatter

all2ofme · Jul 22, 2003, 10:37 AM

I could live without an optical drive by installing software over the network from my laptop. It'd work booooootifully and make the machine that little bit smaller

billybob128 · Jul 22, 2003, 04:49 PM

ok thanks i was just curious but now am enlightened in other peoples computing ways

CatOne · Jul 22, 2003, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
G5 Cube, please.

All I want/need is an open AGP 8x slot and a slew of ports.

So that's just not physically possible, with the processors as they are today.

The reason the current case is so big, with such minimal expansion room, is because there are 9 fans in there. And 3 of 'em are 12 cm fans, I believe.

Now why are there so many fans in there? It's certainly not for show. It's because the current G5's run HOT. The processors consume on the order of 10 TIMES more power than the G4s.

So if you can put that CPU in a cube and cool it with no fan, I have a physics prize for you.

Guess they could liquid cool the thing.

Cipher13 · Jul 23, 2003, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by CatOne:
Guess they could liquid cool the thing.

I wonder exactly how hot the G5s run?

I can imagine a small form factor G5 working with a peltier device...

MilkmanDan · Jul 23, 2003, 11:08 PM

I mean, the G5 could be worse. It appears to be a very well designed inside to provide for cooling. They could easily make it smaller by removing the handles...

When looking at a few friends who have big powerful computers, the G5 doens't look that big.

Than again, the PC has a whole load of ports on the back (of which i've found, none of my firends ever use them, everything is USB). Anyhow, the G5 is a workstation, not really a at home personl computer for the kids.

The problem with the Cube was that it wasn't expandable enough for the pros, and too expensive for the home user. The demographic who bought the cube were the college aged kids who had some money to burn.

I'm not slaming the cube, I love the cube. I keep trying to buy one off a friend. Its just that the cube didn't sell very well, and cut money away from the pro line.

Judge_Fire · Jul 30, 2003, 04:06 AM

If the processor heat issue really prevents compacting (assuming power source is external), what is the fate of the rest of the product line-up then?

Xserve, PowerBook etc.

J

Superchicken · Jul 30, 2003, 08:28 AM

First off there's still a die shrink set to happen fairly soon, and the PPC 980. So in 18 months or so who knows what could happen. As for the cube idea. What would be far better for what most of you say want out of the cube would just be, either the new low K or dual core G4s comming out of Moto, or if it was gona be marketed as a ultra consumer machine, DUN DA DA DA, a G3! yes that Chip is still around, and if Apple WANTS IBM could develop it to 1.5Ghz and then 2Ghz. granted that wouldn't happen over night but remember the G3 is IBM's child not moto's... well OK they both have their own but whatever. For what most people are saying they really want a cube for, you could make do with a G3 at a high Mhz. Or a low K G4. most of you only wanna say you have a G5 which is stupid.

That said... I want a G5