[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

People are so ready to defend the iPhone, I just don't understand it.

How are you surprised by that? I don't understand why people are so quick to denounce it. Has no one learned a lesson from the iPod? Do these people not understand that A) this is not a finished product, so there is much to be done in regards to features and details, and B) Apple knows what they're doing. Apple doesn't make rash decisions based on half baked ideas and they don't do develop something like the iPhone without going through amazing amounts of research and R&D.

So why is it surprising that people are defending the iPhone against those who are blasting it based on what they've read about it. You haven't used it, you don't even know if what you are reading will be true in 5 months. Yet you are quick to claim that its a mistake and will fail because of one missing feature, or a difference in opinion on a network standard.

I don't know why Mac users have such a short term memory, but they do. Most do. Those of us who remember the iPod, as well as OS X intro (remember all the naysayers?), are quick to defend the iPhone because we are confident in Apple and confident that it will most likely be a success.

(And just to be clear, when I say "you" I'm referring to the general "you", not you personally Eug)

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Actually, the wider audience wants a stylish functional phone... for under $200.

Good point. How many kids' parents are going to drop $400 on a phone for them? Not only that, but the majority of the <b>adult</b> market who desire smartphones probably need to use them in a business environment - that means either Palm Desktop support (which is quickly fading into the sunset of obsolesence) or Outlook support. The iPhone provides neither.

I guess you missed my point. My point was that it was phone targetted at the iPod market, but priced like a hardcore business phone PDA.

Also a good point...when iPods were still $500, not nearly as many people - especially not kids - were buying them. The ubiquity behind the iPod in the last year and half or so is due in part to the greatly reduced price points.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Apple is not targeting the hard core "we need secure connections and Exchange" group. They are too small a market to care. Why do you think Blackberry came out with the "consumer" pearl and since has taken off huge.

The PocketPC market is not a hard core small percentage market. It's a large market of people who need to synchronize their business and personal lives with a device that lets them keep track of everything in their pocket.

In all honesty how often are you away from a Mac/PC for more than 12 hours where you can update the content with more movies/music etc and at the same time recharge it? 1 or twice a year is not a big enough concern for Apple to make these changes or be a deal breaker for me.

Unless the iPhone is going to provide support for Windows applications - or Apple provides Windows versions of iCal, Address Book, and Stickies - it's useless to a large market share. Nobody buys a smart phone with the idea that they'll use it for music, movies, and phone calls. The LG chocolate and other phones have fit that niche nicely. Those who buy smart phones are those who need a full-fledged PDA organizer in addition to phone functionality.

The BlackBerry Pearl DOES, on the other hand, provide Outlook support, along with Lotus Notes, Novell GroupWise, and ACT!.

The nonreplaceable battery isn't the only time Apple has elected to ignore usability in favor of sex appeal. I am still baffled as to why Apple made it so incredibly difficult to upgrade the hard drive in their iBooks and PowerBooks. It's great that the new MacBook lines provide such an easy method, but spending 45 minutes of my time to simply add more storage space to a laptop is insane. But hey - those laptops sure looked awesome. No ugly lines breaking up the nice, smooth top, bottom, and sides.

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

I wonder if there is a FM radio feature in the iPhone. I haven't seen anything mentioned, but even my SE allows for radio and even comes with the FM receiver headphones. I'm sick of Apple leaving out common features and making us buy accessories to do them.

Ah, but if Apple put all the features you want into the device you buy, you wouldn't be spending hundreds of dollars on additional accessories, would you?

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

The lesson of the iPod is that people, even teenagers, can and will fork over $400 for a desirable product, even if it doesn't have niche features.

I think that analogy is slightly flawed. Any person can walk into a store and pick up an iPod. Not just anyone can walk into a store and sign a two-year service agreement for cellular service to buy the new iPhone. You have to be 18, for one thing. No kid is going to fork over $400 for a phone when they can't be the person who's buying it, and since $400 is the price with a two-year contract, God knows how high the asking price will be on one sans contract.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by TimmyDee51 

Praise: Best cell phone around.
Complaint: Cingular.

Obviously, I didn't read every single post here However, I agree on the first reply.

I ditched Cingular last Summer and switched to T-Mobile. I started out on AT&T for a year, then switched to T-mobile, then back to AT&T (later Cingular) and kept it for almost 2 years. At that time, none of the carrier offered the phone I wanted, so I went ahead and bought an unlocked Nokia 6682 smartphone straight up. Since it's unlocked, I could just bring it to T-mobile/Cingular without any problem.

Anyway, I love the idea of the iPhone. However, I hope Apple up the spec in June '07 as 6 months later, the current GSM + EDGE will be obsolete. BT syncing would be nice to have as well. I just dislike the fact that Cingular wants a 2-yr contract.

Since it's a multi-year partnership, I guess I have to get my ass back to Cingular.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

How are you surprised by that? I don't understand why people are so quick to denounce it.

Apple is, and always will be, beleaguered

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Features obviously don't sell products or the iPod would be at the bottom (like the shuffle isn't). It's the experience that sells it (and helps sell it to everyone who sees you enjoying yours) along with a bit of the cool factor. You can't say the iPhone is not cool. There is NOTHING on the market like it (referring to the touch interface).

Yep, and I think people are missing this as well. The iPod sells like hotcakes not because it has amazing features that other players don't. They sell as well as they do because they are sexy as all get out, and the experience in using one is unmatched. Apple is fully aware of the "cool factor" or the "fashion factor" of this thing. They will sell TONS of iPhones to people who just want it to be cool, and to people who want something that just works. They will look beyond the things like EDGE vs. whatever, no replaceable battery, etc. Hell, Apple will probably hit its 1% market target by selling to these people alone.

[f1000]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but in my experience and in the experience of others, UMTS/HSDPA use drains batteries quickly. Maybe this was the reason why Apple left it out of the first gen iPhone? UMTS calls sound clearer than regular calls, but at a power cost.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Nicko 

Apple is, and always will be, beleaguered

I agree. Which makes people like me insane. I don't base my confidence and trust in Apple on blind faith. I base it on what Apple has proven to me in the past, over and over again. Yet time and time again, everyone and their grandmother thinks they know better than Apple. And 9 times out of 10 those people eat crow.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

I wonder if there is a FM radio feature in the iPhone. I haven't seen anything mentioned, but even my SE allows for radio and even comes with the FM receiver headphones. I'm sick of Apple leaving out common features and making us buy accessories to do them.

8 gigs of video/music, internet email etc and you think people will want an FM radio?

Worse comes to worse they buy that FM attachment from Apple.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

8 gigs of video/music, internet email etc and you think people will want an FM radio?

Worse comes to worse they buy that FM attachment from Apple.

Or *gasp* listen to it in their car.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

Or *gasp* listen to it in their car.

Great, now I gotta buy a car to enjoy my iPhone?

[ajprice]

Yeah the FM radio remote should work with it (has it been confirmed or not confirmed that iPod accesories etc are going to work with iPhone?), you'll just have to plug the iPhone earbuds with the microphone and squeezy button into the FM remote, then the FM remote into the iPhone (so you'll have a really long headphone cable between your head and your phone ).

Edit for the 2 posts above - Cars are iPod accessories now?? .

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Is an FM radio really a common cell phone feature? (And I can almost guarantee that the iPhone is radio-free.)

Common enough actually. It is on the SE K700i for instance.

V

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Good point. How many kids' parents are going to drop $400 on a phone for them? Not only that, but the majority of the <b>adult</b> market who desire smartphones probably need to use them in a business environment - that means either Palm Desktop support (which is quickly fading into the sunset of obsolesence) or Outlook support. The iPhone provides neither.

First. You think a smartphone is something apple is trying to sell to people under the age of 16 with no job? Come on man.

As for "exchange/outlook support" you really think this tiny % of customers is what Apple is after?

Are you saying Apple needs a device that is affordable enough that your mom can get you for your first communion but it also has to have exchange support for those business users. Are you for real?

Now look at the other 98% who don't fall under that. Do you think apple will sell an iPhone to any of them?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Common enough actually. It is on the SE K700i for instance.

V

Ya sure is, my last 3 phones had it.

a) Never used it as it needs to have headphones plugged in to use it.

b) I got 4 gigs of music on it that I can change daily. what do i need the radio for unless I got a thing for stupid DJ's or commercials.

[ajprice]

From Cingular's press release on the iPhone, this bit was interesting.

"Critical Must Know
• Cingular and Apple have an exclusive multi-year partnership to create revolutionary wireless products
• The first of these – the Apple iPhone - will be available only on the Cingular network; combining the reliability of the Cingular network with the simplicity and functionality of an iPod"

So thats confirming that there is going to be more than one model of iPhone. Can I pre order an iPhone shuffle please .

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

As for "exchange/outlook support" you really think this tiny % of customers is what Apple is after?

Are you kidding? The Exchange market is HUGE. This is exactly the market Apple is after.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Are you kidding? The Exchange market is HUGE. This is exactly the market Apple is after.

Apparently they're not after that market.

But it's probably not Apple's fault. I'm sure full exchange support would appear in mail.app and ical and addressbook, not to mention the iPhone, if it was doable.

Still, if the Exchange administrators allow it, the iPhone could at least send/receive exchange email, because all that's needed is IMAP support.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

People are so ready to defend the iPhone, I just don't understand it.

Because it's good? I've used a number of other phones and a LOT of other PDA-type devices, so I think I know where they fall short. They're overly complex and for all their features, it seems like they don't really do the kinds of things that I want to do. The iPhone does (are at least appears to). It's not perfect, but what product is?

If price weren't an issue, the iPod mini would have never been introduced.

I'm not sure that I agree with that logic. If I recall correctly, the iPod mini was introduced at a price that was not much lower than the low-end full-sized iPod. It was the size that got people's attention, not the price. You could however say that the shuffle wouldn't exist if price wasn't an issue.

[mindwaves]

I like the phone a lot and will probably buy one in the future when the price drops a bit. I also liked the fact that the Chief Yahoo! guy practically begged Steve Jobs for an iPhone on stage.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Apparently they're not after that market.

But it's probably not Apple's fault. I'm sure full exchange support would appear in mail.app and ical and addressbook, not to mention the iPhone, if it was doable.

Still, if the Exchange administrators allow it, the iPhone could at least send/receive exchange email, because all that's needed is IMAP support.

It is doable, it has been done with things like the Groupwise Connector (I believe), accessing Exchange over IMAP rather than MAPI, which is what Entourage does anyway. I believe Evolution might also support Exchange as well. MAPI is proprietary, all of these other solutions are IMAP based, like Entourage.

Will the iPhone allow people to connect to non-Yahoo mail? I sure hope so.


As usual, it seems like there are many issues to sort out in this 1.0 product, but that's to be expected I guess

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Bingo. (Actually, I want the phone, but won't pay that kind of moolah for it.)


You can't see past your own Apple fanboyism here. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT APPLE MADE A BOMB. I THINK THIS IS A VERY NICE PRODUCT. However, it is a very nice product that caters to a small portion of the population because of the price, which is fine, because Apple knows that. You don't seem to realize this, even though Apple itself says it's aiming for a small piece of the pie in 2008.


Bingo. I will reiterate: I will not pay that kind of moolah for it.


WTF are you talking about?

I contradicted your posts claiming that GMA 950 was fast, cuz that's simply wrong. However, I never once said the MacBook was going to be a crappy seller. In fact I said the exact opposite. When the MacBook was released, I said it was going to sell like mad because it was a very capable machine for a low price. The MacBook is a laptop for the masses, BECAUSE IT IS PRICED AS ONE.

1) If you are not willing to pay for a phone that does all that for that price but can't find any better for any price then you are not a potential customer. You're not happy until it is $200 with all you want. Not going to happen. In the mean time millions will pay for this. 1 down, 10 million gained.

2) I am not a fanboy and dis Apple more than anyone. Calling me a fanboy is an easy way to discredit me and make me sound like I am in some sort of alternate reality spewing crap.

3) WTF I am talking about is many many said because /earlier iMacs/MacBooks/Mini have GMA 950's no PC switcher will take them seriously. You were up in arms about it with the iMac for sure. What happened? The complainers were the small percentage NOT the norm as they all sold like mad.

4) What don't I realize about the price and the market? Apple said they want 1%. Have I claimed they will get any higher than that 1%? Nope. 1% is 10 million and 10 million is an amazing number. With this phone they can target at least 30% of the market needs/cost wise and if only 1% actually goes through buying one then they met their goals.

Go look at good phones today. Eug you just barfed up over $500 for a Sony phone which other than a better camera has next to nothing over the iPhone. You also use next to no data or text messaging. Yes you can swap the battery, yes it is smaller... do you think people will want those things more though? Not on average they won't. Not for a long shot.


Pretend you have $600 US right now and want to get the best phone on the market that does 80% of what the iPhone does. The point is you CAN'T but there are people out there that have this money waiting for something like the iPhone.

when the Razr came out it went for $1000 for a while. The hottest Sony Smartphone is $1200 for years.

The Pearl is around $300 with no 8 gigs storage.

Pearl + video iPod is more than the iPhone but still doesn't match it.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Are you kidding? The Exchange market is HUGE. This is exactly the market Apple is after.

What is the number then because RIM got em and wasn't happy with it? They hit the consumer space with the pearl and sales + everything else shot up.

So which would be better for Apple to go after? The small chuck that not even RIM was happy with or everyone else.

Same thing as to why Xserves aren't selling better than... well anything.

NOTHING about the iPhone says "We went the high end business user". Nothing. If Apple said that is what the iPhone is for then you got a point.

They are after the Sidekick/Pearl/ipod users and nothing else. For those that don't know Sidekicks are really big in the US with the young crowd as they are blackberries without the suit.

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

As for "exchange/outlook support" you really think this tiny % of customers is what Apple is after?

Wot!? Wot!? Wot!? I work in Manhattan for about 50 different design studios and EVERY client uses an Exchange server for email. If they support Exchange then every employee at every client will then be able to get work mail on the iPhone.

It would make a huge difference to people.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Because it's good? I've used a number of other phones and a LOT of other PDA-type devices, so I think I know where they fall short. They're overly complex and for all their features, it seems like they don't really do the kinds of things that I want to do. The iPhone does (are at least appears to). It's not perfect, but what product is?

Same here. I have had 2 smartphones incuding my current Pearl. Right now the pearl is the best bet but it is still so far behind the iPhone it is a joke.

I knew exactly what was missing from the current phones and what I wish they would do to fix it.

Until yesterday I had no choice. Consider me part of the 1% that would drop cash on this without skipping a beat.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Moderator 

Wot!? Wot!? Wot!? I work in Manhattan for about 50 different design studios and EVERY client uses an Exchange server for email. If they support Exchange then every employee at every client will then be able to get work mail on the iPhone.

It would make a huge difference to people.

Yes it would be nice. Still can't see serious business shops ditching their blackberries for this but the funny thing is Apple isn't encouraging them too.

I have a blackberry but I don't use exchange. I use my IMAP account from my ISP and it still gets pushed wonderfully.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

How are you surprised by that? I don't understand why people are so quick to denounce it. Has no one learned a lesson from the iPod? Do these people not understand that A) this is not a finished product, so there is much to be done in regards to features and details, and B) Apple knows what they're doing. Apple doesn't make rash decisions based on half baked ideas and they don't do develop something like the iPhone without going through amazing amounts of research and R&D.

So why is it surprising that people are defending the iPhone against those who are blasting it based on what they've read about it. You haven't used it, you don't even know if what you are reading will be true in 5 months. Yet you are quick to claim that its a mistake and will fail because of one missing feature, or a difference in opinion on a network standard.

I don't know why Mac users have such a short term memory, but they do. Most do. Those of us who remember the iPod, as well as OS X intro (remember all the naysayers?), are quick to defend the iPhone because we are confident in Apple and confident that it will most likely be a success.

(And just to be clear, when I say "you" I'm referring to the general "you", not you personally Eug)

Well, some people say it was a mistake, but most people (including myself) here seem to believe it is a nice design. I just think it's strange that one cannot comment on its potential drawbacks without getting blasted by some.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

1) If you are not willing to pay for a phone that does all that for that price but can't find any better for any price then you are not a potential customer. You're not happy until it is $200 with all you want. Not going to happen. In the mean time millions will pay for this. 1 down, 10 million gained.

Well, it only took you several pages, but now you understand. I am not really in the target market for the iPhone.

The ironic part is that I'm a heluvalot more likely spend $$$ on a phone than your average buyer, which was my main point. If I, a Mac/Apple fan and phone geek with a good amount of disposable income am not going to buy this phone, then it's clear that the target market is probably a small percentage. The good news is Apple knows this, and it is clear that Apple will address this too.

I'm glad you finally accept this too now, instead of trying to convince people that because it's a good phone, it's a good phone for the majority of the market.

3) WTF I am talking about is many many said because /earlier iMacs/MacBooks/Mini have GMA 950's no PC switcher will take them seriously.

I wasn't one of those people. I've always said the MacBook would sell like mad, despite its lousy GPU. In fact, I ordered one the very day it was announced.

You were up in arms about it with the iMac for sure. What happened? The complainers were the small percentage NOT the norm as they all sold like mad.

What happened? Yes, I didn't like the 20" iMac with 5200. So, I didn't buy. Apple released a better iMac later... and then I bought. I'm damn well glad I waited too, cuz it turned out later that the Apple thought the 5200 iMac sucked too, and wouldn't allow next gen Apple software to even install on it.

Interestingly, at the time the 5200 iMac was released, I said it would be nice if Apple offered a higher end GPU option for a higher price, and then got blasted because people said that would be a stupid waste for Apple to maintain that extra inventory.

Low and behold, now I'm the owner of an iMac 24" with 7600 GT option.

4) What don't I realize about the price and the market? Apple said they want 1%. Have I claimed they will get any higher than that 1%? Nope. 1% is 10 million and 10 million is an amazing number. With this phone they can target at least 30% of the market needs/cost wise and if only 1% actually goes through buying one then they met their goals.

Yeah, but you kept using the argument that people should buy it for US$600 plus a contract because there is no equal.

I personally think the 30" Cinema Display with Mac Pro is totally awesome, but that doesn't mean I'll actually buy one.

Go look at good phones today. Eug you just barfed up over $500 for a Sony phone which other than a better camera has next to nothing over the iPhone.

My primary reason for getting my K790i was the autofocus 3 MP camera. I use it all the time.

You also use next to no data or text messaging. Yes you can swap the battery, yes it is smaller... do you think people will want those things more though?

Size? I dunno. Battery, some people yes, some people no. It's important for me anyway.

Not on average they won't. Not for a long shot.

Of course they don't. Few people want to buy my phone for CAD$500. And they're even less likely to spend CAD$1000 on it.

Fortunately, it's only CAD$249 with a contract. Not CAD$599 or $699. (US$600 is about CAD$700.) And even then this $249 phone is not their most popular phone. My understanding is the W810 is more popular, at $149.

Pretend you have $600 US right now and want to get the best phone on the market that does 80% of what the iPhone does. The point is you CAN'T but there are people out there that have this money waiting for something like the iPhone.

I would consider paying $600 US for the iPhone unlocked. However, I wouldn't spend US$600 for it locked to a carrier, with a 2-year contract.

[::maroma::]

As far as Exchange goes, I have a sneaky suspicion that the MacBU at Microsoft just might be working with Apple right now to bring to market an iPhone version of Entourage in the near future.

Don't quote me... but then again if it does happen, quote me.

[Chuckit]

I just showed the iPhone presentation to three people — a 50-something woman, a 22-year-old guy and a 30-year-old woman. One's a librarian, the other two are reporters, so none of them are outlandishly rich. All three, after seeing the Google Maps demo, asked me how much it was. And even after hearing the price, they all said, "Hey, that's worth saving up for." This might have better mass appeal than the price initially made me think. (Obviously not scientific, but I was surprised).

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Well, some people say it was a mistake, but most people (including myself) here seem to believe it is a nice design. I just think it's strange that one cannot comment on its potential drawbacks without getting blasted by some.

I hear ya. And I don't mean to blast you, but there are a lot of people who posted here trashing the iPhone and flat out claiming its a failure because of things they don't know much about. Those are the people I'm personally addressing. They are the same people who pronounced the iPod DOA before it hit the market. They come out every couple years to trash Apple's new stuff. But the funny part is they all end up giving Apple their money for something they believe is a failure.

[Dark Helmet]

Um remember when the Mini/Nano ipod came out? I seem to remember people here completely convinced that nobody in their right bloody mind would pay $200 for a 4 gig mini when you could pay $300 for 30 gigs with video plus lots extra.

Heck I saw salesmen say the same thing to customers that the big one is a much better value etc. but they always still wanted the mini.

Which is sells more?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I just showed the iPhone presentation to three people — a 50-something woman, a 22-year-old guy and a 30-year-old woman. One's a librarian, the other two are reporters, so none of them are outlandishly rich. All three, after seeing the Google Maps demo, asked me how much it was. And even after hearing the price, they all said, "Hey, that's worth saving up for." This might have better mass appeal than the price initially made me think. (Obviously not scientific, but I was surprised).

I think that speaks volumes. Its what I was talking about when I posted about the style or fashion factor. People are cheap (read: careful with their money), but when people see something that is well made, feature rich, and sexier than anything else, they will fork over the extra cash to get one.

Here's another experiment to try. Find a few average joe's, simply ask them something like "If there were a phone that did (A, B, C, D -- talking about basic functions of the iPhone), would you pay $500-$600 for it?" and see what they say.

Now show those same people the presentation, complete with sexy pics and videos of how it works etc, and then see what they think. My guess is that most people will balk at the first question after they hear the words "five hundred to six hundred dollars". But after seeing it in action, those words seem far less shocking.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I just showed the iPhone presentation to three people — a 50-something woman, a 22-year-old guy and a 30-year-old woman. One's a librarian, the other two are reporters, so none of them are outlandishly rich. All three, after seeing the Google Maps demo, asked me how much it was. And even after hearing the price, they all said, "Hey, that's worth saving up for." This might have better mass appeal than the price initially made me think. (Obviously not scientific, but I was surprised).

Just to be fair you can put google maps on just about any phone. I have it on both my Symbian phone and blackberry and to me is the best thing I can do outside of the normal phone stuff.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Um remember when the Mini/Nano ipod came out? I seem to remember people here completely convinced that nobody in their right bloody mind would pay $200 for a 4 gig mini when you could pay $300 for 30 gigs with video plus lots extra.

Heck I saw salesmen say the same thing to customers that the big one is a much better value etc. but they always still wanted the mini.

Which is sells more?

Actually for the nano, the reaction was mostly OMFG THAT'S AWESOME!!!

It was a bit different for the mini, but it was still very positive in general.

The reaction was more mixed for the original shuffle, but once the new shuffle came out the critics were largely silenced.

In my case:

I like having about 8-10 GB or more for music and video, each. (My 6 GB mini felt a tad anemic.)

For both, 16 GB would be good for me, and 12 GB would be tolerable. 8 GB would be an issue for me. Too little space. I also wonder if the entire 8 GB is available to us, or if some is used by the phone itself for various apps or the OS.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

It is doable, it has been done with things like the Groupwise Connector (I believe), accessing Exchange over IMAP rather than MAPI, which is what Entourage does anyway. I believe Evolution might also support Exchange as well. MAPI is proprietary, all of these other solutions are IMAP based, like Entourage.

Will the iPhone allow people to connect to non-Yahoo mail? I sure hope so.

Jobs specifically mentioned other email support, including Exchange. But for Exchange, whether IMAP will work at all depends on whether the server administrators flip a switch. I just wish they could get a fully-functioning outlook-type client going, possibly using address book and ical, on the iPhone and more generally on the Mac.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

I also wonder if the entire 8 GB is available to us, or if some is used by the phone itself for various apps or the OS.

Yeah I'm wondering the same thing. Are the Nano's listed capacities the actual capacities, or does the OS take some space on those? (I know there's always a few megabytes taken away from the listed capacities, even if there's nothing on it.)

[icruise]

I seriously doubt that the OS and apps will take up any appreciable space. It would totally go against the way Apple has been marketing its iPods, for one thing.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I seriously doubt that the OS and apps will take up any appreciable space. It would totally go against the way Apple has been marketing its iPods, for one thing.

I was also wondering at one point if some of that space would be taken up by the applications, but now I'm thinking not, because we likely won't be able to install applications anyway.

Then again, the way it works for other phones is that while the entire OS and many of the applications are in the firmware, some of the 1st party applications (even ones you can't delete) are on the phone's memory. (Of course all 3rd party applications go into available memory or a separate memory card.)

[::maroma::]

Uh oh, Eug is closing in on the 10k post mark.

Hold on to your butts!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Actually for the nano, the reaction was mostly OMFG THAT'S AWESOME!!!

It was a bit different for the mini, but it was still very positive in general.

True the nano was only because the Mini proved everyone wrong.

Sure it isn't for everyone like yourself and that is fine but it does show there is a HUGE HUGE part that do.

Same goes for the black Macbook. You wouldn't dream of paying for the colour, I wouldn't consider getting white. I wasn't the only one.

[kman42]

I'm not so sure they won't let us install apps on it. The iPod had some limited functionality that so made sense to keep it closed, but the iPhone is just begging for openness. Everything about it (including the Home page with extra room for icons) says, "Develop for me". Widgets in particular cry out for open development. They may keep it closed initially, but I think it will open in rather short order as they hear the desire from the community.

kman

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Yeah I'm wondering the same thing. Are the Nano's listed capacities the actual capacities, or does the OS take some space on those? (I know there's always a few megabytes taken away from the listed capacities, even if there's nothing on it.)

My 2 gig Nano (2nd gen) has about 1800MB available for music, but about 20.4 MB is taken up by "other," which I'm assuming is album art and general software.

[philm]

I mentioned that the SIM card on a Treo is in a slot on the top...

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

No it's not. The slot on top is for a MEMORY card, not a SIM card. The SIM card goes where the SIM card goes in 99.9% of every other cell phone on the market - inside.

Err, excuse me.....

[BRussell]

From what I can tell, Apple wants to control it all and do it all for themselves. I think they'd prefer it if we couldn't install software on our Macs, aside from Apple software.

[icruise]

Tycho of Penny Arcade bought a Zune a week or two ago and wrote a column about it. After the iPhone introduction, he wrote this about his new purchase:

I can hardly look at it now, it's like holding a dead squirrel. On its 4:3 screen - the exact ratio of obsolescence - I can see destroyed futures.

Yep.

[Eug Wanker]

Somebody actually bought a Zune?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Tycho of Penny Arcade bought a Zune a week or two ago

Anyone feel the least bit sorry for him?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Anyone feel the least bit sorry for him?

Nah, anyone who buys a Zune deserves it.

[Eriamjh]

I want to go on record to say that this will be a success for Apple. Price Schmice. iPhone will rule us all!

[::maroma::]

So, something a little off topic, sorta...

I noticed that all of the "hero" shots on Apple's site of the iPhone show the time and date when the iPhone was introduced, Tuesday January 9th 9:41. According to MacNN's live coverage of it, it seems Jobs pretty much timed it perfectly, maybe a few minutes off. Sort of akin to iCal's static icon.

Another small Apple-esque detail.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Nah, anyone who buys a Zune deserves it.

"Welcome to the Buyers regret™©"