[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I find it funny that now that multitasking has been announced, suddenly the clamored for feature gets switched to a lack of widgets.

I think it's retarded. Or trollish. Call it as you like.

-t

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Why haven't you switched yet? That's what apps do right now (take the AP app, for example). The whole point of iAd is to NOT do that. iAd has its own API so it won't do what you're talking about. That's why I'm excited about it.

Because iin-App ads are still an exception as opposed to the 'norm'. I dont mind ads in free apps, but iAd seems like it's putting the tools(APIs, business model, etc) into the hands of all developers to include ads in their apps at will. The reason i have an iPhone is cause no other product has presented a better overall alternative. iAd could possibly change that depending on how iAd is used within Apps.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Seriously ? That would be such a dumb move.

-t

I own an iPhone because the core functionality(phone, SMS, email, Web, iPod) is awesome. Apps were gravy, iAd could change that. I would not mind moveing to a platform with equally well implemented core functions, despite the lack of Apps.

Regarding iAd.... will Apple be advertising within it's Apps on the iPhone (Mail, calendar, photos, etc?)

EDIT>> The fact that you can close an ad at anytime is a good thing. i hope it's not optional. that changes my view of the thing, i do not want to be forced to watch Ads while using Apps.. I'm only just watching the keynote...time difference n stuff .

[Simon]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

I would assume it quits the apps that aren't using any of the 7 background processes.

That's what I thought too at first.

But then I took at look at these two walk-throughs.
YouTube - iPhone OS 4 beta - pierwsze wrażenia - Makowe ABC
YouTube - 9to5mac - iPhone OS 4 Video

It appears like every app that's opened is now all of a sudden running in the background. I mean why the heck would I want Settings running in the background, using up precious RAM and CPU cycles?

Personally the only background tasks I need are notification and Skype. I simply don't see the advantage of double-tap and select over single tap (go back to home screen) and select. As long as apps launch quickly 95% of them can be safely turned completely off the moment I go to the home screen.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Call me crazy, but I honestly don't care much about multi-tasking. I mean, I guess it might be nice, but it's really not a big deal.

Same here. I see how this is necessary on a device like the iPad, but on the iPhone I see only very few applications that really require it.

I'm a bit afraid this was primarily a marketing stunt. Since multitasking is the one thing other smartphone OS have and the one thing they harp on about over and over, Apple might have felt compelled to include it too. So now we have feature parity, but do we actually have a better phone? Not so sure.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by ort888 

(no setting to turn off landscape in the iPod setting screen = LAME)

Abso'frickin'lutely.

What are the chances we'll see an iPad-like hardware switch for it on iPhone HD? My guess is not likely.

[AKcrab]

Sarcasm?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Simon 

That's what I thought too at first.

But then I took at look at these two walk-throughs.
YouTube - iPhone OS 4 beta - pierwsze wrażenia - Makowe ABC
YouTube - 9to5mac - iPhone OS 4 Video

It appears like every app that's opened is now all of a sudden running in the background. I mean why the heck would I want Settings running in the background, using up precious RAM and CPU cycles?

Personally the only background tasks I need are notification and Skype. I simply don't see the advantage of double-tap and select over single tap (go back to home screen) and select. As long as apps launch quickly 95% of them can be safely turned completely off the moment I go to the home screen.

You sure they're actually running in the background? Sure they're not using that "fast app switching" that Jobs talked about?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

WTF ?

Who gives a shit about a widget homescreen ?

Get a life.

I presume this is about placing widgets on the lockscreen?

I would LOVE for the calendar app to be able to place my next appointment(s) on the lock-screen.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Abso'frickin'lutely.

What are the chances we'll see an iPad-like hardware switch for it on iPhone HD? My guess is not likely.

Even a software setting for would be better than no switch.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

You sure they're actually running in the background? Sure they're not using that "fast app switching" that Jobs talked about?

Good point. So how can we distinguish the two?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Even a software setting for would be better than no switch.

Yep, couldn't agree more.

[Spheric Harlot]

Indeed. Auto-rotate is great, except when you don't want it happening.

Then, it's ****ing annoying.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Originally Posted by Jokell82

You sure they're actually running in the background? Sure they're not using that "fast app switching" that Jobs talked about?

Good point. So how can we distinguish the two?

I doubt there’s any obvious way to tell. But what I got out of reading about the announcement is that apps will only actually use any cycles in the background if they’re specifically using API calls that allow for it.

I thought it was funny, though, that Jobs was dissing task managers on other platforms. It’s not like the app switching is super elegant. People will probably still want to find and explicitly quit running apps, if only to declutter the switcher (or clear it to get their Home double-click back). If switching away from an app sends it into the switcher, at some point the latter will get so full that it’s not much handier than just going back to the home screen, and the only reason to use it will be to quit things.

Not that I’m complaining about multitasking in general. And I think the fact that you only get background cycles to do specific things will probably prevent random poorly-coded apps from, say, looping through animation code while offscreen. But since there are already decent ways to switch between apps, the main added functionality of the switcher will be to quit apps. I.e., being a task manager.

[ort888]

I think it will be easy to never even realize that apps are even being multitasked. Most of the people I know with iPhones won't even notice the difference. Most people I know with iPhones don't even know how to use about 50% of the features of the phone.

I doubt settings would even do anything in the background. The phone probably leaves any app you touch down there for a specified amount of time and then quits it quietly in the background after a few hours.

My most wanted "feature" is still having them fix live updating in smart playlists. I would trade it for everything else put together. I honestly would. It' such a pain in the butt for me.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Regarding iAd.... will Apple be advertising within it's Apps on the iPhone (Mail, calendar, photos, etc?)

No... They'll only be a part of free or very cheap apps ($.99).

EDIT>> The fact that you can close an ad at anytime is a good thing. i hope it's not optional. that changes my view of the thing, i do not want to be forced to watch Ads while using Apps.. I'm only just watching the keynote...time difference n stuff .

That's what I was getting at. You're not forced to watch anything. It's just a tiny bar that sits in the app. If you touch it, it'll open, but you'll never leave the app and it's easy to go right back.

[kman42]

So does the switcher just keep growing unless you remove the apps? Is there some limit?

[0157988944]

No apps run in the background. Only those 7 APIs can run in the background. So if an app is not using any of the 7, it's basically quit, but with the fast switching, it will appear to have been running the whole time.

[Simon]

So what do I need fast switching for then?

OS 3: tap home button, tap app
OS 4: tap home button twice, tap app (incidentally this will break my double-tap for iPod shortcut)

Where's the progress in that?

[0157988944]

Currently in OS 3 most apps return to some predefined state when closed and re-opened. in OS 4, they are saved, so you can go right back to what you were doing. The whole double tap thing is really just perceived convenience, as you point out it's not really that much faster.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Simon 

So what do I need fast switching for then?

OS 3: tap home button, tap app
OS 4: tap home button twice, tap app (incidentally this will break my double-tap for iPod shortcut)

Where's the progress in that?

When you go back between apps, you don't have to start the app up all over again and get to whatever point you were at?

[Simon]

Hmm, not many apps I use do that... When I start them I'm usually already where I want to be. But I see your point.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Simon 

So what do I need fast switching for then?

OS 3: tap home button, tap app
OS 4: tap home button twice, tap app (incidentally this will break my double-tap for iPod shortcut)

Where's the progress in that?

Apps that have a reason to multitask will multitask in the background. And even with apps that don't, switching between them in a short list of open apps seems faster than closing the current app and searching around the springboard for the next one you need.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

When you go back between apps, you don't have to start the app up all over again and get to whatever point you were at?

Yeah, but they don’t have to have the switcher interface, or have it take over the already-overloaded double-click, to do that. They could just have all apps save state automatically, no matter what method you use to leave them and come back.

[imitchellg5]

You don't have to use the switcher interface. If you want to go back to the home screen and scroll to your app, then you can do that.

[lpkmckenna]

If folders only hold 9 or 12 things, I'm gonna have a lot of folders named Games, Games 2, Games 3, Books, Books 2, etc

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

If folders only hold 9 or 12 things, I'm gonna have a lot of folders named Games, Games 2, Games 3, Books, Books 2, etc

They did say in the keynote that you could name your own folders.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

You don't have to use the switcher interface. If you want to go back to the home screen and scroll to your app, then you can do that.

I suppose so, my issue is whether one’s preferred Home double-click shortcut would be overridden by the switcher any time there’s multitasking going on. Hopefully people who like the Favorite contacts or camera or iPod functionality better will be able to turn the switcher off.

(I wonder if the switcher will get an official name.)

[Andy8]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

They did say in the keynote that you could name your own folders.

Yes, Steve said you can use the generic name provided or rename the folder to anything you like.

[lpkmckenna]

Yes, I can rename the folders, but what else am I gonna name folders with Games in them?

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Yes, I can rename the folders, but what else am I gonna name folders with Games in them?

Arcade, strategy, word, puzzle, RTS, RPG, FPS, sports...

I think you have a few choices.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by slugslugslug 

I suppose so, my issue is whether one’s preferred Home double-click shortcut would be overridden by the switcher any time there’s multitasking going on. Hopefully people who like the Favorite contacts or camera or iPod functionality better will be able to turn the switcher off.

Looks like iLounge has some details:

Originally Posted by an iLounge article

Multitasking is now accessible on 2009 iPhone and iPod touch models by double-tapping the Home button; you can no longer use double-clicking for the camera or other features.

Ugh. Hope this changes before final release.

In general, though, I’m bullish on iPhone 4.0.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

You don't have to use the switcher interface. If you want to go back to the home screen and scroll to your app, then you can do that.

Sure you'e not forced to use it, but it still sucks that thanks to this "innovation" the double-home shortcut is gone.

Oh well, they still have two months to fix that. I'd want to see the switcher interface become an app and have double-home remain a user-definable option. Those that want to sacrifice double-home for the switcher interface can do so. Those that rather use it to trigger the cam or the iPod can still do so. Everybody's happy.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I'd want to see the switcher interface become an app and have double-home remain a user-definable option. Those that want to sacrifice double-home for the switcher interface can do so. Those that rather use it to trigger the cam or the iPod can still do so. Everybody's happy.

Not likely to happen. As we all know, Apple is none too keen on giving us options.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I am very happy with OS 4.0. Multitasking is done in a very intelligent way. I'm just worried that people still have to manually quit apps though by removing them from the multitasking bar. My mom will never figure that out.

I only have 1 MAJOR gripe with the iPhone OS after 4.0 that needs fixing big time. Notifications suck large. Laaaaarge. They really have to fix them fast.

The second is minor but I was hoping they would clean the UI up and loose some of that pale blue bars and back buttons and make them black or consistent.

I am very sad that the iPad has to wait till fall though as it needs multitasking just as badly.

[lpkmckenna]

About that Fast App Switcher: it seems awfully cramped. Scrolling thru the apps four at a time seems like the worst possible implementation. I mean, the Dashboard dock works the same way and is just as annoying.

It will probably be fine if swapping between 2 apps like Mail and Safari, but scrolling to find the game you were playing yesterday only to discover it's gone because it was swallowed by the iPhone OS's memory recovery daemon will be really annoying. Whenever you wanna reopen an app, you'll wonder "did it get killed by the OS" and "how far do I need to scroll 4 apps at a time to find out?"

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

About that Fast App Switcher: it seems awfully cramped. Scrolling thru the apps four at a time seems like the worst possible implementation. I mean, the Dashboard dock works the same way and is just as annoying.

It will probably be fine if swapping between 2 apps like Mail and Safari, but scrolling to find the game you were playing yesterday only to discover it's gone because it was swallowed by the iPhone OS's memory recovery daemon will be really annoying. Whenever you wanna reopen an app, you'll wonder "did it get killed by the OS" and "how far do I need to scroll 4 apps at a time to find out?"

Well I don't see myself letting 8+ apps running in the background but I am also wondering how the OS will handle automatically removing things not in use.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I am very happy with OS 4.0. Multitasking is done in a very intelligent way. I'm just worried that people still have to manually quit apps though by removing them from the multitasking bar. My mom will never figure that out.

I only have 1 MAJOR gripe with the iPhone OS after 4.0 that needs fixing big time. Notifications suck large. Laaaaarge. They really have to fix them fast.

The second is minor but I was hoping they would clean the UI up and loose some of that pale blue bars and back buttons and make them black or consistent.

I am very sad that the iPad has to wait till fall though as it needs multitasking just as badly.

I'm happy with it as well. Scrolling through pages in the multitasking bar can get annoying, but since I have only a page of extra apps, it's easy to launch what I want from the home screen.

You're right about notifications. I don't like how jarring they are, and how relatively useless they are. I think a good implementation would be an icon in the menu bar that you can touch to see what needs attention.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Well I don't see myself letting 8+ apps running in the background but I am also wondering how the OS will handle automatically removing things not in use.

I don't think it DOES remove anything.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I don't think it DOES remove anything.

Doesn't that mean that every app you ever launch will always be in the multitasking bar than? There must be some sort of timer built in like "finish task" then quit.

If not does that mean that if I launch System Prefs, Calendar or the calculator they will always stay in multitasking till I manually remove?

I get the feeling that it will act more like a "Recent apps" menu even though they aren'r really running and just be pushed down the list as they are left unused.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

You're right about notifications. I don't like how jarring they are, and how relatively useless they are. I think a good implementation would be an icon in the menu bar that you can touch to see what needs attention.

I just think the top bar should just change colour and slide down for a second like when you are on a call and do something else. Clicking it will bring up a sheet with a list of all new SMS's, Push messages but not emails.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Doesn't that mean that every app you ever launch will always be in the multitasking bar than? There must be some sort of timer built in like "finish task" then quit.

If not does that mean that if I launch System Prefs, Calendar or the calculator they will always stay in multitasking till I manually remove?

I get the feeling that it will act more like a "Recent apps" menu even though they aren'r really running and just be pushed down the list as they are left unused.

As far as I can tell in the three days that I've had it installed on my iPod touch, nothing has been removed. Of course, at launch this could be completely different.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I just think the top bar should just change colour and slide down for a second like when you are on a call and do something else. Clicking it will bring up a sheet with a list of all new SMS's, Push messages but not emails.

That's a good idea as well.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

As far as I can tell in the three days that I've had it installed on my iPod touch, nothing has been removed. Of course, at launch this could be completely different.

I get the feeling that those apps aren't running in any way and it is acting more like a "recent apps" listing to trick you into thinking it is. Something like calculator or system prefs for example. A game would probably still be loaded in the background but in sleep mode saving you having to launch it again.

As long as it doesn't get slow or have out of memory errors i can live with it.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Doesn't that mean that every app you ever launch will always be in the multitasking bar than?

Yes, welcome to last week. And I already complained about it on about page one. It's a stupid concept. IMHO there should be no task switcher at all. It's a phone not a workstation for crying out loud. Have stuff run in the background that needs to (notification API, etc.). Have other stuff behave like it behaves now. But this task switcher nonsense we're getting with OS 4 is stupid. No way I'll be able to explain to the noobs that they'll have to go to the task bar and quit apps when their iPhone starts misbehaving. Kinda like ctrl-alt-del in Windows. Duh. I hate the app switcher already.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Yes, welcome to last week. And I already complained about it on about page one. It's a stupid concept. IMHO there should be no task switcher at all. It's a phone not a workstation for crying out loud.

Oh well pardon me.

How do you know that apps will start misbehaving and causing said problem. It must be smarter than to let a crashed app eat CPU in the background for 12 hours.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Yes, welcome to last week. And I already complained about it on about page one. It's a stupid concept. IMHO there should be no task switcher at all. It's a phone not a workstation for crying out loud. Have stuff run in the background that needs to (notification API, etc.). Have other stuff behave like it behaves now. But this task switcher nonsense we're getting with OS 4 is stupid. No way I'll be able to explain to the noobs that they'll have to go to the task bar and quit apps when their iPhone starts misbehaving. Kinda like ctrl-alt-del in Windows. Duh. I hate the app switcher already.

Yes there should be the switcher. It's a very efficient way to get things done. If an app is misbehaving, the task manager actually makes it a lot EASIER to fix it. You can jump right out to another application or the homescreen if you're having an error, and when you go back to the app with the error it'll be in the last place before the error happened. I get the feeling that you're complaining about something that you haven't experienced.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I get the feeling that those apps aren't running in any way and it is acting more like a "recent apps" listing to trick you into thinking it is. Something like calculator or system prefs for example. A game would probably still be loaded in the background but in sleep mode saving you having to launch it again.

As long as it doesn't get slow or have out of memory errors i can live with it.

They are actually running, at least according to iStat, they just page in and out a lot more. With OS 3.1.3, I had something like 2,000 page outs, and 500 page ins. Now I have 38k page outs and 8k page ins. One example is that I don't use the Weather app very much, I generally use WeatherBug. But today when I loaded Weather, it had automatically updated since I last looked at it yesterday morning. Apps that don't take advantage of Apple's APIs still seem to launch much quicker from the task manager than when I quit the app and then relaunch from home.

I think Apple probably saves the app in some sort of state similar to sleep on a Mac if it doesn't use the new APIs. If it does, then it's allowed to use RAM even while in the background.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Ok so how will this work when 4.0 ships? Do all apps that work in 3.0 work fine in 4.0 even though they are not updated to support multitasking? Does the OS just figure out the best it can in that case. I guess they can't force devs to update the app in order to work with 4.0.

For example how does the current version of skype work if you leave it in the background running. Can you still receive calls?

[imitchellg5]

Yes, all apps that work in 3.0 work just fine in 4.0. Oddly, some apps which haven't been updated in some time seem to continue, or at least save position, such as Tweetie 2 and Yelp!. And some you'll have to relaunch, but they launch significantly faster. As far as Skype goes, no, it doesn't run in the background. But I'm sure at launch (or before) the Skype app will be updated like shown in the keynote.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

According to this all my guesses were correct. When you quit an app is really just suspends it into a sleep mode and it makes you think you are quickly switching (you save the launch time). Any crashed apps will be killed. In 4.0 developers can write hooks like "finish task and quit" to take proper advantage of multitasking. Since the skype you tested is not for 4.0 all that is happening is that it is suspended. The future version will always run in some way in the background which is a huge deal.

AppleInsider | Inside iPhone OS 4.0: Multitasking vs Mac OS X, Android [Page 2]