[jokell82]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Disney made a decision at launch. Paramount was neutral then backpedaled during one of the major Hi-Def releases of the year.

Actually, Paramount made a decision at launch too - they were originally an HD DVD exclusive distributor. They went neutral for a while and then went BACK to HD DVD.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

However, I still find it amusing people are harping on this, when the same is true for Blu-ray and Disney. Remember, Disney refused to deny they were given "incentives" to support Blu-ray.

So at least they did it before the war got into consumers hands. You don't wait over a year and when BR is outselling HD 2:1 or more you don't go back to the lower selling end for anything other than a shitload of cash.

[mrtew]

OK it looks to me like BluRay is going to be the winner. I've almost bought a HD-DVD drive for my X-Box360 several tmes, but just couldn't do it. I think I'm going to get a PlayStation3 for the BluRay instead. It seems like that's going to be a better buy in the long run that starting on a dying format at this point. Don't you think?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

OK it looks to me like BluRay is going to be the winner. I've almost bought a HD-DVD drive for my X-Box360 several tmes, but just couldn't do it. I think I'm going to get a PlayStation3 for the BluRay instead. It seems like that's going to be a better buy in the long run that starting on a dying format at this point. Don't you think?

I don't think so.

Personally I don't think either format is guaranteed to win at this point. It looks like both are going to be around for years.

As for getting a player, I'd just wait until a standalone drops below $200 and get one of those. Much better value for HD playback than either the 360 add-on or a PS3. And I say this as someone who owns both a standalone and a 360 add-on.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

OK it looks to me like BluRay is going to be the winner. I've almost bought a HD-DVD drive for my X-Box360 several tmes, but just couldn't do it. I think I'm going to get a PlayStation3 for the BluRay instead. It seems like that's going to be a better buy in the long run that starting on a dying format at this point. Don't you think?

Short answer, no.

Long answer is more like what Eug said. Although if you're willing to wait, the best bet would be to wait until a *combo* standalone drops below $300 or so. Then you don't have to worry about the "war" at all.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

OK it looks to me like BluRay is going to be the winner.

I'd look at that crystal ball a little clearer.

Either neither is gonna make it, or HD-DVD is. So far things are pacing out to be the first.

[icruise]

What do you base the idea that HD-DVD would win on? I can understand saying that it'll be a stalemate (and that may very well be the most likely outcome), but if I had to choose one, it wouldn't be the side that's getting outsold by 2 or 3 to 1...

[Kevin]

I gave my reasoning for my beliefs earlier.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Format War: Blu-ray Outsells HD DVD Nearly 2-to-1 in US

[the_glassman]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

OK it looks to me like BluRay is going to be the winner. I've almost bought a HD-DVD drive for my X-Box360 several tmes, but just couldn't do it. I think I'm going to get a PlayStation3 for the BluRay instead. It seems like that's going to be a better buy in the long run that starting on a dying format at this point. Don't you think?

I've been partial to BluRay for a long time, but I've finally made the jump and purchased the HD DVD add on for my Xbox. How could I not with Best Buy giving them away? I got Heros season one ($99 retail), Transformers, 300, King Kong, plus my other five movies coming in the mail for $180.00 Pretty good deal if you ask me.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Format War: Blu-ray Outsells HD DVD Nearly 2-to-1 in US

"the count doesn't include Michael Bay's reluctantly sold 190,000 Transformers HD DVDs, a figure which will probably continue to rise, adding to the HD DVD camp's overall numbers. And the numbers may shift more favorably towards HD DVD as Paramount and Dreamworks maintain exclusivity for at least 17 more months."

Read the article?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Format War: Blu-ray Outsells HD DVD Nearly 2-to-1 in US

So, it's only 1.5:1 right now without the recent record-breaking Transformer numbers, eh? Not too shabby...

[Eug]

Interesting new pricing entry in Wal-Mart's store inventory system:

[*TL]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

So, it's only 1.5:1 right now without the recent record-breaking Transformer numbers, eh? Not too shabby...

Let's not count Transformers before they hatch; the Dreamamount press release clearly implies that 190k, if accurate, is for all of North America. I'm told that Nielsen only counts the United States.

Also, you've got to do a lot of funny rounding to round 1.87:1 to "only 1.5:1." Even if Blu-ray sold absolutely nothing last week, the ratio would move to 1.86 to 1. In other words, the biggest blockbuster exclusive HD has or will have for a year doesn't move the year-to-date ratio more than .01.

Oh, and ending in September, it also doesn't take into account the huge numbers that Fantastic Four did.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I'd look at that crystal ball a little clearer.

Either neither is gonna make it, or HD-DVD is. So far things are pacing out to be the first.

I can't tell if you're just pushing people's buttons by always taking the viewpoint that's going to get people fighting or if you have some kind of point. Please tell me why you think that Bluray won't 'win'.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

So, it's only 1.5:1 right now without the recent record-breaking Transformer numbers, eh? Not too shabby...

It has been months where you can get an HD-DVD player for $150-200 and 7 free movies and BR is still outselling it the same as it was in January. That's pretty shabby.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by *TL 

Let's not count Transformers before they hatch; the Dreamamount press release clearly implies that 190k, if accurate, is for all of North America. I'm told that Nielsen only counts the United States.

Also, you've got to do a lot of funny rounding to round 1.87:1 to "only 1.5:1." Even if Blu-ray sold absolutely nothing last week, the ratio would move to 1.86 to 1. In other words, the biggest blockbuster exclusive HD has or will have for a year doesn't move the year-to-date ratio more than .01.

Oh, and ending in September, it also doesn't take into account the huge numbers that Fantastic Four did.

How does 3mil:2mil equal 1.87:1???

And actually if BD sold squat last week, the new ratio would be 1.37:1

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Interesting new pricing entry in Wal-Mart's store inventory system:

Just in time for Christmas too.

BTW, Bluray has been at 2:1 for a long long while. I don't understand why the Bluray fanboys are acting like it's a big deal. Bluray is not gaining ground, and HD-DVD is not losing it. Neither side is really winning or losing at this point.

[Elandyll]

Not only is it 2:1, and will still be 2:1 or better (with all the blockbusters coming up on Blu-Ray exclusive, TF was a nice release, no doubt, but it was the main reason Tosh paid Paramount/DW $150M after all -source NYT-), but all over the world Blu-Ray is dominating and inreasingly so.

Europe is at 4:1 and rising in favor of Blu-Ray, Australia 6:1 and Japan 9:1 or more.

Frankly, and with all the hardware backing Blu-Ray has (and not only in video, check out data and computing : Search Results
I do not see what the HD DVD fanboys hope to achieve by prolonging the format war.
By delaying the Blu-Ray adoption, all you do is prolonging a situation that is detrimental to the consumer, and nothing else.
All things beign equal, with the current situatio nand the releases that are upcoiming, the BDA will declare clear dominance by the 2008 CES, and HD DVD will be left in the water by Xmas '09. But by then, how many HD DVD users will be left stranded with discs that are incompatbile with the dominant format?

I know others think that it doesn't matter as Downloads will prevail in the end.
I don't know where you live, but we are way way far away from that. Some services linked to the DVR might (and probably will) explode, but it will never (at least not in the foreseable future) replace a physical format that you can go out and buy on impulsion, create a collection on shelves with, rent at a videostore or wrap as a gift for Xmas. Not even close.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Elandyll 

Europe is at 4:1 and rising in favor of Blu-Ray, Australia 6:1 and Japan 9:1 or more.

Yeah. Not in standalone sales. Sorry.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

How does 3mil:2mil equal 1.87:1???

The numbers for 2007 are 1.86 to 1. (2.6 million Blu-ray to 1.4 million HD-DVD). Since the very beginning, it's 3 to 2 million, but since the formats didn't start at the same time or in the same way (the PS3's relatively late start, for example) it seems that using this year's sales gives a better picture of the overall situation.

And actually if BD sold squat last week, the new ratio would be 1.37:1

What were sales for HD-DVD last week again? You may want to check your math there.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

The numbers for 2007 are 1.86 to 1. (2.6 million Blu-ray to 1.4 million HD-DVD). Since the very beginning, it's 3 to 2 million, but since the formats didn't start at the same time or in the same way (the PS3's relatively late start, for example) it seems that using this year's sales gives a better picture of the overall situation.


What were sales for HD-DVD last week again? You may want to check your math there.

I don't understand the rationale for not counting ALL sales, but whatever. The overall situation is 3 million to 2 million. The year-to-date situation is 2.6 million to 1.4.

And if it's 3 million to 2 million, add another 190,000 to the 2 million and you get a ratio of 3:2.19, which would be 1.37:1. Unless, of course, the Mac OS calculator is wrong.

(And yes that assumes no other HD DVD discs sold and zero BD discs were sold, but those were the conditions quoted in the post I responded to)

[icruise]

True, I was coming at it from the "2007 sales" angle, which would mean that the new ratio would be 1.63:1.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yeah. Not in standalone sales. Sorry.

So what?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So what?

Because when you look at... you know... real sales like stand alone sales and disc sales, those numbers that were quoted don't hold up.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So what?

As has been mentioned before, the game console's chance of winning the war was in 2006. We all know what happened. Now it's up to the standalones.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yeah. Not in standalone sales. Sorry.

So what are the numbers. Do you even know?

Originally Posted by goMac 

Because when you look at... you know... real sales like stand alone sales and disc sales, those numbers that were quoted don't hold up.

Aren't the numbers quoted for disc sales? If not, what are they?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Aren't the numbers quoted for disc sales? If not, what are they?

I can find the number he's citing, and it actually doesn't say what the 9:1 is for. The Amazon numbers for JP show Bluray winning, but not by anywhere near that much.

His European numbers are just insane though. By all accounts Bluray and HD-DVD are neck and neck. The only way his European numbers make sense is if they are talking about player sales and include the PS3.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Interesting new pricing entry in Wal-Mart's store inventory system

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I can find the number he's citing, and it actually doesn't say what the 9:1 is for. The Amazon numbers for JP show Bluray winning, but not by anywhere near that much.

Amazon numbers would be especially inaccurate in Japan, where most people do not shop online, and relatively few people even use credit cards on a regular basis. From what I've heard, there basically is no format war in Japan. Blu-ray has won. A buddy of mind who lives there has confirmed that.

His European numbers are just insane though. By all accounts Bluray and HD-DVD are neck and neck. The only way his European numbers make sense is if they are talking about player sales and include the PS3.

As I pointed out on May 17th in this very thread, if you include the PS3, Blu-ray would have sold 100 times as much as HD-DVD in Europe, so that's not what they're talking about. Instead of saying "by all accounts they're neck-and-neck," maybe you can dig up one or two of those accounts.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Ok so with this player if HD still isn't kicking BR's ass in 6 month can we agree that the cost of the stand alone player is not what is going to have them win?

[icruise]

By the way, with regard to Japanese sales, 9:1 is spot on. (From earlier this month.)

[jokell82]

You have to remember that Japan eats up everything Sony does. The PS3 has a dominating stance over the 360 in Japan, while everywhere else it's seriously hurting.

[*TL]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

How does 3mil:2mil equal 1.87:1???

And actually if BD sold squat last week, the new ratio would be 1.37:1

You're looking at since inception, I'm looking at YTD. I think YTD is a better indicator, but there's no sense in arguing about it.

[*TL]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

You have to remember that Japan eats up everything Sony does. The PS3 has a dominating stance over the 360 in Japan, while everywhere else it's seriously hurting.

That doesn't really change the numbers though, does it?

[pooka]

Yes it does. It means that Japan means jack **** in this war. It's akin to saying Zunes are outselling iPods 9:1 in Seattle.

Look, fellas, personally I hope this war goes on for quite some time. I've stated my case and Sony can just suck it. Good luck to all you Bluray supporters, but honestly, I hope the format goes down in flames. 08 is the year...

[ort888]

Ending Saturday the 27th...

At Best Buy you can now buy the $179 xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on and for free you get...

Heroes Season 1
King Kong
any 2 free HD-DVD movies of your choice ($35 or less)
mail in offer for 5 free (crappy) movies

Pretty decent deal.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by pooka 

Yes it does. It means that Japan means jack **** in this war. It's akin to saying Zunes are outselling iPods 9:1 in Seattle.

You do realize that both Toshiba and Sony are Japanese companies?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

You do realize that both Toshiba and Sony are Japanese companies?

What does that have to do with anything? We already know that historically, the Japanese market often doesn't follow the market elsewhere.

The prime example of this is beta. Beta did well in in Japan, but VHS dominated elsewhere. Beta was Sony, and VHS was JVC, and they're both Japanese companies.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by icruise 

You do realize that both Toshiba and Sony are Japanese companies?

Please forgive my harsh (and sometimes juvenile) tone. I'm aware of that. My point, as Eug mentioned, is that Japanese consumers probably won't have much of an effect on the format war. Both companies may be Japanese, but first and foremost, they're businesses. The global market will decide this.

Edit:
That doesn't mean there aren't significant differences between the two company cultures. I have no delusions about Toshiba being some sort of altruistic savior of digital bits, but the fact remains, they have not displayed the habitual asshattery that Sony has long been known for.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

What does that have to do with anything?

He said BR doing well in Japan would be like the Zune doing well in Redmond -- I took that to mean that he thought BR is doing well in Japan because Sony is a Japanese company. Is there any other way to interpret that comment?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

He said BR doing well in Japan would be like the Zune doing well in Redmond -- I took that to mean that he thought BR is doing well in Japan because Sony is a Japanese company. Is there any other way to interpret that comment?

I took it to mean it would be like the Zune doing well in just one city, as that wouldn't necessarily reflect the overall situation.

[icruise]

In any case, is HD-DVD beating Blu-ray in disc sales anywhere in the world?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

In any case, is HD-DVD beating Blu-ray in disc sales anywhere in the world?

I don't think so, but it is beating Blu-ray in standalone sales.

The argument goes... As times goes on, the importance of consoles wanes in this format war, and the importance of standalones increases... and disc sales follow hardware sales. Since Toshiba has no console to sell, it is pushing the standalone angle very, very heavily.

The problem at the moment for Blu-ray is the poor PS3 sales relatively speaking... and like I said console sales rates are becoming less and less important in this war with each passing day anyways.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by pooka 

It's akin to saying Zunes are outselling iPods 9:1 in Seattle.

Actually, being a Seattle native, I've only seen someone actually using a Zune once. Everyone I know here owns iPods.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by pooka 

Yes it does. It means that Japan means jack **** in this war. It's akin to saying Zunes are outselling iPods 9:1 in Seattle.

Look, fellas, personally I hope this war goes on for quite some time. I've stated my case and Sony can just suck it. Good luck to all you Bluray supporters, but honestly, I hope the format goes down in flames. 08 is the year...

The way I see it is simply Microsoft is the main evil behind HD-DVD and Sony the main evil behind BluRay.

While I honestly don't care which format comes on top, I hate Microsoft more so I'll be smiling inwardly if BluRay wins and shrug if Microsith wins.

I just hate giving money to MS. Any money.

This war will continue while the market hasn't adopted HD videos and said goodbye to DVDs like VHS.

Until then discussion about this is a bit of a geekfest IMO. (which is why I check this thread every once in a while)

Ah.. carry on.

V

[the_glassman]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Ending Saturday the 27th...

At Best Buy you can now buy the $179 xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on and for free you get...

Heroes Season 1
King Kong
any 2 free HD-DVD movies of your choice ($35 or less)
mail in offer for 5 free (crappy) movies
Pretty decent deal.

Except you can get away with any two free DVD's including The Matrix Trilogy and Planet Earth box sets!

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

The way I see it is simply Microsoft is the main evil behind HD-DVD and Sony the main evil behind BluRay.

Just because that's the way you see it doesn't mean that's the way it is.

Hint: the Microsoft-owned VC-1 codec is used by both HD DVD and Blu-Ray. So the only way to not give Microsoft money is to not buy any HD video.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Hint: the Microsoft-owned VC-1 codec is used by both HD DVD and Blu-Ray. So the only way to not give Microsoft money is to not buy any HD video.

Yep, for every Bluray player you buy you still pay the VC-1 licensing fee to Microsoft.

Personally, I think Microsoft is the far lesser evil. Both companies are pretty deep in DRM, but Microsoft has a vested interest in making sure HD-DVD works well with computers. Sony doesn't, their primary business is the Playstation and standalone players, meaning they'd rather get you to use your video with one of those products instead of your PC. It's been a point of contention in the Bluray camp. HP actually went platform neutral because of Bluray's worse support for PC's.

Sony would rather keep their content away from PC's, whereas Microsoft has a vested interest in making sure HD-DVD performs great on the PC.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Just because that's the way you see it doesn't mean that's the way it is.

Hint: the Microsoft-owned VC-1 codec is used by both HD DVD and Blu-Ray. So the only way to not give Microsoft money is to not buy any HD video.

I was referring to the HDi interactive menu system pushed by MS on HD-DVD.

HDi Interactive Format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

V