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milhous · May 31, 2006, 07:15 PM

I submitted my resignation on Tuesday after coming back from Memorial Day weekend. It was my first job right out of college and quite frankly, it was time for a change. We (myself and 2 other junior consultants) were supposed to receive formal training and establish a professional development plan.

After a year of service, it hasn't happened and it won't happen. One of the juniors will be leaving to work as a full-time employee for one our clients and the other is leaving at the end of the week to work elsewhere.

I figured that now's a good time like any other to follow suit. There is no future staying where I'm at now. Due to a failed acquisition attempt and poor decision-making by management, over 25% of our group has resigned since the beginning of the year--including the Managing Director that we originally reported to.

The lack of leadership, vision, motivation, candor, and the unwillingness for the owners of the company to delegate some of its decision-making and budgetary authority to managers are some of the reasons as to why I believe so many have left and why the company can never grow.

It's a shame because the company has so much potential and could be a great organization.

In the end, they can run the business however they see fit. However the people that have left have come to the conclusion that the company always knows how to play business, but can never actually do business. Make just enough money to get buy and give people modest raises, that's about it.

So some lessons learned from this experience:

+ If you don't like your job or just need a change, find a new one.
+ If you run a company and are faced with retention issues, then the simple solution is to stop nickle and diming your employees.

I've got some cash saved up so I don't need to find work immediately. I think I need to take a break and then start looking for work again. As always, I'm optimistic that something will pan out.

SouthPaW1227 · May 31, 2006, 08:22 PM

Sounds like you worked at Amway.

turtle777 · May 31, 2006, 08:25 PM

Sounds like many Fortune 500 companies.

-t

Dork. · May 31, 2006, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Sounds like many Fortune 500 companies.

-t

Ain't that the truth!

Just out of curiosity, why did you quit before finding a new job? Doesn't it make more sense to start looking while you're still gainfully employed, then leave when you have a new job lined up? You can even delay your start date if you need some time off in the interim....

memory-minus · May 31, 2006, 08:34 PM

Haha... good luck with all that. Why blow through your savings when you could probably just tough it out for another month or two and step up the job search? Your colleagues had the right idea. Call me when you find that perfect job where your input is always carefully considered, everyone is treated fairly and equally, business is always on the up and up, and double-digit raises for everybody!

I wish I could "take a break" from work after just one year.

So naïve. So idealistic.

ghporter · May 31, 2006, 09:10 PM

If working makes you unhappy, then you're working at the wrong place. I'm not talking about not getting a great contract or losing a good customer. I'm talking about not feeling like getting out of bed, let alone going to work. Lots of people work at places where they get sad on a regular business-talk to a neonatal intensive care nurse about it sometime. But it's the circumstances that make them sad, not the work itself.

I retired from the Air Force about 18 months ago because of this. I could have spent as much as two and a half more years on active duty, gotten at least a longevity raise and maybe even been promoted. But it HURT to get up to go to work. My experience and training had been eclipsed by changes in how things are done, and I never got the new training to stay up to speed. I was baggage and I knew it, so it hurt.

I'm in school-a HARD school-for a new career, and it won't be until the end of 2008 that I graduate. But it's an exciting opportunity to do something that helps people in a profound way, and it's in a field that one cannot get superseded in. It will be fantastic; I LOVE getting up to go to school!

Don't suffer. Make a change if you need to.

turtle777 · May 31, 2006, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Lots of people work at places where they get sad on a regular business-talk to a neonatal intensive care nurse about it sometime. But it's the circumstances that make them sad, not the work itself.

I know, the circumstances.

I get sad about the boss of my boss, who is a clueless a$$-kisser, and runs the business into the ground. It hurts.

Well, I guess it's not exactly what you meant

-t

ghporter · May 31, 2006, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

I know, the circumstances.

I get sad about the boss of my boss, who is a clueless a$$-kisser, and runs the business into the ground. It hurts.

Well, I guess it's not exactly what you meant

-t

I left one job because of such a situation. More precisely, I'd been hired with an understanding that I would not be sent on field jobs after 3PM on two specific days of the week because I had classes in the evenings, and our customers were typically an hour or more away from the shop. After a number of days in a row where I was assigned to do just that, I picked up my tools and left. It should not have been a surprise because I'd spoken with the service manager and the office manager about the problem. An agreement is an agreement, and I certainly did more than cover my part. That hurt a lot, and even moreso because they didn't even acknowledge that agreement even once.

snoopy199 · May 31, 2006, 09:22 PM

Well when your young you have opportunities and your free to make such a decision. If your not happy you need to do something now. As you get older, you'll see how much more difficult just walking away will be. Car payments, mortgage payments, taking care of children.

zmcgill · May 31, 2006, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by darth-vader000

Well when your young you have opportunities and your free to make such a decision. If your not happy you need to do something now. As you get older, you'll see how much more difficult just walking away will be. Car payments, mortgage payments, taking care of children.

I'm guessing you're not SWG...mostly because you're not that great with English.

Railroader · May 31, 2006, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by darth-vader000

Well when your young you have opportunities and your free to make such a decision. If your not happy you need to do something now. As you get older, you'll see how much more difficult just walking away will be. Car payments, mortgage payments, taking care of children.

Only if you're in debt. Avoid debt altogether and you can walk away from any job at anytime.

euchomai · May 31, 2006, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I'm guessing you're not SWG...mostly because you're not that great with English.

And the name isn't clever.

turtle777 · Jun 1, 2006, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I'm guessing you're not SWG...mostly because you're not that great with English.

What ?

THAT gave you the clue ?

-t

turtle777 · Jun 1, 2006, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Only if you're in debt. Avoid debt altogether and you can walk away from any job at anytime.

Your world is so simple, and you mind is, too. Must be nice to be you.

-t

Railroader · Jun 1, 2006, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Your world is so simple, and you mind is, too. Must be nice to be you.

-t

You are brain washed by the debt-for-life- people. Who has the "simple" mind?

turtle777 · Jun 1, 2006, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

You are brain washed by the debt-for-life- people. Who has the "simple" mind?

Paid ca$h ...

... Paid ca$h ...

...

-t

ism · Jun 1, 2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Only if you're in debt. Avoid debt altogether and you can walk away from any job at anytime.

That's like saying "Avoid marriage, kids, buying a home and any kind of responsibility over other people and you can walk from any job at anytime"

zmcgill · Jun 1, 2006, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by ism

That's like saying "Avoid marriage, kids, buying a home and any kind of responsibility over other people and you can walk from any job at anytime"

No, but everybody should be financially able to pay cash for anything at any time. Because tons of people can easily save up $100,000 to buy a house because they need room for the triplets, but luckily they had thousands saved for hospital bills too.

turtle777 · Jun 1, 2006, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

No, but everybody should be financially able to pay cash for anything at any time. Because tons of people can easily save up $100,000 to buy a house because they need room for the triplets, but luckily they had thousands saved for hospital bills too.

Oh, come on, you gotta think simpler than that. That almost sounds like real life. Can't do that.

[/sarcasm]

-t

memory-minus · Jun 1, 2006, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

You are brain washed by the debt-for-life- people. Who has the "simple" mind?

I'm curious and this is without sarcasm... do you own your home outright, have a mortgage or rent? For the vast majority of people (myself included), even with no other debt, even a modest home is out of reach without many years of mortgage payments. It's very difficult to save up cash for a home when you're paying rent as well.

I do agree that any sort of credit card debt, personal loans, most vehicle loans and racking up excessive student loans that will not bring a high-paying job for a decent ROI makes slaves of people. But I think most people, even the most fiscally responsible, are tied to either a mortgage or rent and therefore are generally unable to simply leave a job. Quite a few people are responsible for children as well.

Would you mind clarifying what you mean?

Railroader · Jun 1, 2006, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by ism

That's like saying "Avoid marriage, kids, buying a home and any kind of responsibility over other people and you can walk from any job at anytime"

Far from it. I am, and have, all those things and I am not in debt.

I have a 2.5 year old and a 9 month old and I recently quit my job. Am I worried? Nope. I feel free. I am enjoying the formative years of my children in a way that hardly anyone does. I am with them 99% of the time they are awake. My daughter knows how to read, do addition, and a lot of physical things that are advanced for her age because of the time I spend with her. Did I mention that she's two and a half?

Even without the pay-out that my employer gave me, (I was on a one year sabbatical anyway), I can easily go two years without needing a job.

Railroader · Jun 1, 2006, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by memory-minus

I'm curious and this is without sarcasm... do you own your home outright, have a mortgage or rent? For the vast majority of people (myself included), even with no other debt, even a modest home is out of reach without many years of mortgage payments. It's very difficult to save up cash for a home when you're paying rent as well.

I do agree that any sort of credit card debt, personal loans, most vehicle loans and racking up excessive student loans that will not bring a high-paying job for a decent ROI makes slaves of people. But I think most people, even the most fiscally responsible, are tied to either a mortgage or rent and therefore are generally unable to simply leave a job. Quite a few people are responsible for children as well.

Would you mind clarifying what you mean?

I own my own house outright. Is it a 3,200 sq. ft., cookie cutter suburban, beige vinyl sided, and on the end of a cul-de-sac? Nope. It's in a small town and built in 1900. But It's nice enough for me and best of all it's paid for.

Bought it for $100,000 in 2002. Bought my first house in 1998 for $65,000. Just don't buy the house everyone wants. Build some sweat equity. I did a ton of work on my houses. Learned a lot. Lastly, don't live where the cheapest house costs $400,000

Railroader · Jun 1, 2006, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Paid ca$h ... [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/turtle777/smileys/yap2.gif[
-t

What is your intentions here?

Dakar · Jun 1, 2006, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Far from it. I am, and have, all those things and I am not in debt.

I have a 2.5 year old and a 9 month old and I recently quit my job. Am I worried? Nope. I feel free. I am enjoying the formative years of my children in a way that hardly anyone does. I am with them 99% of the time they are awake. My daughter knows how to read, do addition, and a lot of physical things that are advanced for her age because of the time I spend with her. Did I mention that she's two and a half?

Even without the pay-out that my employer gave me, (I was on a one year sabbatical anyway), I can easily go two years without needing a job.

Would you say you make the same amount of money as the average person?

Dork. · Jun 1, 2006, 10:23 AM

Can we please leave all the debt-is-bad stuff in this thread?.

I'll repeat my question to the Original Poster: Why did you feel the need to quit before looking for a new job? Do you have connections in the area which you feel will result in a new job in short order?

Railroader · Jun 1, 2006, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Would you say you make the same amount of money as the average person?

I'd say I make less than most post-university people on here.

But I make more than some and less than some. I also know a person who's debt free, and who only makes ~$28,000 a year, and just recently had 4 kids in college at the same time living at home. His wife just started working, but she makes less than $200/week.

Income has very little to do with it.

Dakar · Jun 1, 2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I'd say I make less than most post-university people on here.

That doesn't answer my question.

turtle777 · Jun 1, 2006, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Far from it. I am, and have, all those things and I am not in debt.

Even without the pay-out that my employer gave me, (I was on a one year sabbatical anyway), I can easily go two years without needing a job.

YOU can do it because you had an overpaid job at GM. Not everyone was in that fortunate position. The high wages at GM are the main reason why they are broke, so no, this is NOT a model that I would recommend.

Btw, this is the reason why I don't buy GM. I just don't want to subsidize line workers that make 80k + for haning out doing nothing. Ah well, flame me.

-t

turtle777 · Jun 1, 2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Dork.

Can we please leave all the debt-is-bad stuff in this thread?.

Only if Railroader could know it off.

He derailroded it:

Originally Posted by Railroader

Only if you're in debt. Avoid debt altogether and you can walk away from any job at anytime.

-t

abe · Jun 1, 2006, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Your world is so simple, and you mind is, too. Must be nice to be you.

-t

Living today is VERY difficult to do without incurring debt. That someone would set that as a condition of their existence is commendable and it has it's rewards, too!

Railroader, good for you!

greenamp · Jun 1, 2006, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by abe

Living today is VERY difficult to do without incurring debt. That someone would set that as a condition of their existence is commendable and it has it's rewards, too!

Railroader, good for you!

I agree. It's pretty admirable IMO. Kudos to RR.

abe · Jun 1, 2006, 12:50 PM

Read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and you'll better understand how today's 'typical' existence is not the smartest plan. Being able to escape the 'rat race' is what should be the goal. Railroader sounds like he did the right things in the right way!

greenamp · Jun 1, 2006, 01:02 PM

American society seems built around debt in so many ways. I mean, right off the bat most people are slapped with tens of thousands in student loan debt that require them to join the rat race immediately after graduation. Hell, I'm up to 30k and I've still got 4 semesters left.

By the time I graduate, we will have both of our cars paid off, and my goal from their is to put everything my wife and I make towards other debt until we are debt free. It might take a while but it will be worth it.

ShortcutToMoncton · Jun 1, 2006, 01:33 PM

It's all good and well to live "debt-free," but RR can do this precisely because his circumstances allow him to. He bought a house for 100 grand - because he lives where many people don't, and thus the housing demand is less. If other people began to attempt the same strategy, housing wouldn't be so cheap. It doesn't sound like he went to university or post-secondary education, so he didn't occur any debt trying to get through 3 or 4+ years of school. He also got a well-paying job - it sounds like at a factory - that sounds like it also required little or no schooling, and probably apprenticeship or something like that. With the low cost of living in his area and his high wages, he's effectively set.

That's all well and good, but it's certainly not a viable option for probably the vast majority of people in North America. And besides, having worked a little in the financial industry, I can say there's nothing wrong with being "in debt" to some degree - there are many circumstances where it is quite advantageous and allows for a better cash distribution.

Anyways, yeah, it's great if you can do it, but I don't see why one's person unique fortune means they can call the rest of humanity "brainwashed."

greg

turtle777 · Jun 1, 2006, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

It's all good and well to live "debt-free," but RR can do this precisely because his circumstances allow him to.

Yes, thanks to many years of being employed at an overpayed job at GM, that's possible.

Thank you, GM customer's, for making RR's life so sweet.

-t

olePigeon · Jun 1, 2006, 02:07 PM

If you live in California, "debt-free" never enters the equation unless you're rich.

RAILhead · Jun 1, 2006, 04:37 PM

I've been debt-free for ages. Paid for house, G35, Nissan Titan, etc. Investments out the yang, Roths, the whole 9 yards. It's totally doable if you put your mind to it.

AssassyN · Jun 1, 2006, 04:47 PM

^ Puhhhlease. You completely forgot to add this after "put your mind to it":

And make more money than it takes to own the things you own.

RAILhead · Jun 1, 2006, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by AssassyN

^ Puhhhlease. You completely forgot to add this after "put your mind to it":

And make more money than it takes to own the things you own.

That's don't-be-an-idiot-101: if you can't afford it, don't buy it.

Dork. · Jun 1, 2006, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

I've been debt-free for ages. Paid for house, G35, Nissan Titan, etc. Investments out the yang, Roths, the whole 9 yards. It's totally doable if you put your mind to it.

It's definitely doable, given the proper circumstances. And I'll be the first to say that spending more than you make is unsustainable, and people in general need to learn to spend less and borrow less. But I bristle at the notion that all debt is bad. A loan is a financial tool at your disposal, just like an IRA or retirement plan. Saying that all debt is bad, and that if you have to go into debt you're doing something wrong, is simply unrealistic.

zmcgill · Jun 1, 2006, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

That's don't-be-an-idiot-101: if you can't afford it, don't buy it.

I can't afford 4 years of school, but I'm halfway through buying it. Should I have gone straight to the workplace where my potential as a great engineer would not be realized simply because it's more immediately financially possible?

Railroader · Jun 1, 2006, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

It's all good and well to live "debt-free," but RR can do this precisely because his circumstances allow him to. He bought a house for 100 grand - because he lives where many people don't, and thus the housing demand is less. If other people began to attempt the same strategy, housing wouldn't be so cheap. It doesn't sound like he went to university or post-secondary education, so he didn't occur any debt trying to get through 3 or 4+ years of school.

Actually, I got a drafting degree at a community college, finished up my general ed. classes there while working as a draftsman, and then went to a University for two years while double majoring in Engineering and education. I have a total of 7 years of post High School education. I also had two apprenticeships.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

He also got a well-paying job - it sounds like at a factory - that sounds like it also required little or no schooling, and probably apprenticeship or something like that. With the low cost of living in his area and his high wages, he's effectively set.

That's all well and good, but it's certainly not a viable option for probably the vast majority of people in North America. And besides, having worked a little in the financial industry, I can say there's nothing wrong with being "in debt" to some degree - there are many circumstances where it is quite advantageous and allows for a better cash distribution.

Anyways, yeah, it's great if you can do it, but I don't see why one's person unique fortune means they can call the rest of humanity "brainwashed."

greg

Like I said earlier, I also have a friend who makes less than $30k per year and is just finishing putting four hildren through the University of Michigan. It's possible.

Railroader · Jun 1, 2006, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Yes, thanks to many years of being employed at an overpayed job at GM, that's possible.

Thank you, GM customer's, for making RR's life so sweet.

-t

How's that jealousy taste? Are you jealous because I am debt free. You are certainly obsessing over me in an unhealthy way. Whatever happened to that self imposed ban?

Cody Dawg · Jun 1, 2006, 06:32 PM

I have a 2.5 year old and a 9 month old and I recently quit my job. Am I worried? Nope. I feel free.

Bet your wife doesn't feel as great about it.

I mean, she may TELL you to your face, "Yes, we're fine - we'll make it," but let me tell you something, no spouse wants their spouse to simply decide to be free-and-easy and footloose when they have children to take care of.

If my husband just decided to quit his job and stay home I'd love it for about a day, but I'd be worrying a lot about money.

If he wanted to stay home with the kids then I'd work something out with him where he worked a night job so that he could be home during the day to be there while the children were awake.

But the truth is that he's a compassionate father, a great husband, hands-on when it comes to the children, and he's working a position where he can come home at any time of the day if necessary and he is always available for doctor's visits, etc.

He could get a better paying job with more benefits, but then he'd sacrifice freedom so we make due with the job he has and get by. He makes a very good living, but because of the area we live in (very expensive with median home prices starting at $400K for an ordinary single family home in a so-so neighborhood) we have to be very careful and budget like crazy.

If he just decided not to work I have to say that I would feel resentful and have a lack of respect for him, to be honest, after about a month of that sort of thing. It's just not a responsible "get ahead" kind of attitude to my way of thinking.

Just being honest. The men that I respect are men's men and they love their jobs and they're proud of making a good living and being the main breadwinner (though, I do work from home myself to help contribute a bit.)

to my husband.

Oh, and about putting 4 kids through University of Michigan debt free? I call BS, Railroader, sorry.

There is no way that those kids were put through by their parents, 4 of them, without loans and grants on 30K a year.

turtle777 · Jun 1, 2006, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

How's that jealousy taste? Are you jealous because I am debt free. You are certainly obsessing over me in an unhealthy way. Whatever happened to that self imposed ban?

debt free ...

... debt free ...

...

-t

Cody Dawg · Jun 1, 2006, 06:43 PM

What IS debt free anyway?

If you have electricity bills coming in every month then you're not debt free are you? Or water bills? Or cable? Because that is just about as hefty as some revolving debt.

We have a mortgage (which, if you think about the derivation of the word "mort" which is Latin for death and "gage" which means covenant if I remember correctly) and a car payment and no other revolving credit debt. Could we obtain more debt? Sure. But we realize that we can't afford to make credit card payments because then we wouldn't get ahead and save money.

So we both work (I do what I am to from home) and we don't do anything extravagant and we both drive used cars and we don't go on fancy vacations.

But we do enjoy our children and each other and we live in a beautiful place on planet earth so for now that is enough.

However, the utility bills that we pay are a staggering amount and equal credit card debt. Our electric bill is $386 for this month alone. Cable (basic) is another $59. Water is $40. Telephone is $104. And so on. It all adds up. Even if we owned our home outright and our car I could hardly state, "I am debt free." There is ALWAYS debt around the corner.

Big Mac · Jun 1, 2006, 07:03 PM

While you offer a lot of wise advice, a bill is only debt if you don't pay it off in full or close thereto. . . I never thought about the derivation of mortgage before, but it makes a lot of sense; the dictionary has this to say:

Word History: The great jurist Sir Edward Coke, who lived from 1552 to 1634, has explained why the term mortgage comes from the Old French words mort, “dead,” and gage, “pledge.” It seemed to him that it had to do with the doubtfulness of whether or not the mortgagor will pay the debt. If the mortgagor does not, then the land pledged to the mortgagee as security for the debt “is taken from him for ever, and so dead to him upon condition, &c. And if he doth pay the money, then the pledge is dead as to the [mortgagee].” This etymology, as understood by 17th-century attorneys, of the Old French term morgage, which we adopted, may well be correct. The term has been in English much longer than the 17th century, being first recorded in Middle English with the form morgage and the figurative sense “pledge” in a work written before 1393.

That's definitely going to make me think twice about signing such a thing, although I'm only going to do that when the house in question is within my means.

Railroader · Jun 1, 2006, 07:10 PM