[mduell]

Originally Posted by P 

And drivers. Apparently nVidia is making them themselves again.

That's the "stability" bit. And optimizing for stability over squeezing every last fps out.

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

What I am astonished that for the Mac there is only one Quadro available - an absolute high end card with 1,5 GB video RAM and it costs around $1650.

There's a long history of graphics professionals on Macs being relegated to gaming cards, so the ISVs have come to support them; there's also a lot fewer ISVs due to the lack of serious engineering and similar apps. What's the point in a $100 or $400 Quadro for Mac?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Dual four core as an entry level Mac Pro, and not a single 6-core. Sounds like a good idea.

It actually sounds like a very expensive idea. IOW most likely not going to happen.

[mduell]

Mac Pro: The $2500 computer with a $250 CPU.

[Simon]

The Mac Pro is all about revenue. And it has never been as clear as with the current generation. The highest entry-level price since the MP's introduction coupled with the cheapest Xeon (W3520) Apple has ever used.

[shabbasuraj]

Originally Posted by Simon 

The Mac Pro is all about revenue. And it has never been as clear as with the current generation. The highest entry-level price since the MP's introduction coupled with the cheapest Xeon (W3520) Apple has ever used.

Sux 2 be us.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Simon 

It actually sounds like a very expensive idea. IOW most likely not going to happen.

The 4-cores can't be that expensive.

Is it the dual-processor architecture that makes it so expensive?

I just don't want to see another Mac Snail as the entry level Mac Pro.

[Simon]

A single low-clocked 4-core Gainestown is not expensive. In fact it's the least expensive type of CPU Apple has so far used in the MP. OTOH two of them, especially at higher clock rates are significantly more expensive than a single 6-core Gulftown is expected to be. Add to that that in principle the single-CPU board can be produced for less than the dual-CPU board. That is if Apple actually choses to make two separate boards. In the past they have gone both ways.

Regarding the Mac Snail, it depends where Apple is going. Clearly the last generation had horrible price-performance on the low-end. Apple can do basically three things now:
- keep the price-performance structure the way it is
- leave the prices, but increase low-end performance
- drop low-end prices to match performance better

I have trouble being optimistic here because I know that since its inception the MP has become more and more expensive. It's true that the performance has also been raised more than accordingly, but so has the iMac's - especially with Lynnfield. It's difficult to make a MP that shows vastly better performance than the iMac for $2k. OTOH it seems Steve has no interest in making a MP that roughly matches the high-end iMac on performance in order to make it more affordable. And if everything about the MP hast to be high end, the price will reflect that. Bummer if you're more interested in the case/expansion than in the CPU/clock. For those people, the MP will remain horribly expensive.

[P]

To use to sockets on the same motherboard, you need a CPU that supports that natively. With Nehalem, that means having 2 QPI links - one to the other CPU and one to the Northbridge. This means the Xeon 5500 series (codenamed Gainestown). If you're happy with one socket, you can skip that second QPI link. This means the Xeon 3500 series (Bloomfield) - basically the desktop Core i7-900 series except with support for ECC RAM. Intel is very open with it's prices - here's the current price list. Straight comparisons aren't possible, as lower clocked 5500 models are quite cheap, from $188 if you're happy with 1.83 GHz. They soon rise, however, and when you hit 2.66 GHz they cost $958 each. Meanwhile, the single socket 3500 Xeons start at 2.66 GHz with a price of $284. There's also the Xeon 3400 series - Lynnfield, same as in the iMac - that starts even lower. My guess is that the low-end 5500 series CPUs are for those that prefer massive amounts of memory to raw computing power. Possibly it's meant for HPC users. In any case, it seems rather silly to use it when Apple doesn't even put in all the RAM sockets that it can on the current models.

What Intel will do with Gulftown is anyone's guess at this point. They will sell it as Core i7-980X, an extreme edition chip, so there won't be a any cheap desktop models. My guess is that the Xeon 5600 series (Xeon Gulftown) will not have a low priced version, and instead be phased in at the top of the current 5500 range as some sort of bridge towards Beckton. We'll probably see two of them in an MP, but it will be almost irrelevantly expensive. No word on if there will even be a Xeon 3600 (single-chip Gulftown with ECC). That chip might useful to Apple, to distinguish it from the iMac, but more than anything else they need to fit two more RAM slots on that model. And drop the price, but I seem to have mentioned that before...

[shabbasuraj]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Bummer if you're more interested in the case/expansion than in the CPU/clock. For those people, the MP will remain horribly expensive.

Agreed. My work requires multiple monitors/screen space and storage... and not so much cpu power or video performance. Sux.

[Simon]

HardMac predicts new 6-core Xeon-based Mac Pro models imminent as new Core i7-980X ships in quantity next month

[mduell]

Perhaps Apple will get the Xeon 5600s early... although as EVGA demonstrated you can do dual socket systems with i7.

[Simon]

When it comes to Xeons, Intel loves Apple.

Apple was the first to get Clovertown. Apple was the first to get Gainestown. Good chance we'll now see Apple be the first to get Golftown.

[P]

Originally Posted by mduell 

although as EVGA demonstrated you can do dual socket systems with i7.

Link?

[Simon]

IMHO the moniker is quite irrelevant. If Apple goes for dual sockets they'll likely use Xeon 5600 series Gulftown. If they go single socket they might use Core i7-980X Gulftown instead, but they could also go Xeon. It doesn't really matter. In the end it's the same Gulftown/Westmere cores.

[P]

The other difference between Core i7 and Xeon is support for ECC memory.

[Simon]

Apple's present Xeon box can also run on non-ECC. As long as you don't mix you're fine either way.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon 

When it comes to Xeons, Intel loves Apple.

Apple was the first to get Clovertown. Apple was the first to get Gainestown. Good chance we'll now see Apple be the first to get Gulftown.

If only they could be so prompt with the laptop chips.

Originally Posted by P 

Link?

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/...dual-cpu-mode/

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

If only they could be so prompt with the laptop chips.

That's an entirely different ball game. If Intel can deliver a small amount of a brand new high-end Xeon that's probably just sufficient to satisfy Apple's demand. OTOH in the mobile market where Apple ships huge volumes of MBPs, a low-volume shipment of CPUs from a production ramp-up won't do. So I'm not surprised Apple can't beat everybody else with mobile CPUs. OTOH why the chose to wait longer than a lot of other companies in some cases (like now) is not explained by that.

[Simon]

Hardmac.com : Le "Macbidouille" in English - Hexacore Xeon-based Mac Pro Soon: Part II

Initially only the high-end i7-980X (3.33->3.6 GHz) should become available. The i7-970X (3.2->3.46 GHz) will follow later.

HardMac suspects Apple will also take the opportunity to modify the case with a SSD bay. I'm not so sure about that one.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Simon 

HardMac suspects Apple will also take the opportunity to modify the case with a SSD bay. I'm not so sure about that one.

It'd probably be easier to include a 10¢ bracket.

[Simon]

More HardMac speculation on the launch of the new Gulftown/Westmere Mac Pro.

Core i7-980X and the Xeon variant are expected to be in very limited supply. Intel will continue to ship Gainestown/Nehalem alongside the new variants and intend them to co-exist similar to Woodcrest and Clovertown back in the day. HardMac is speculating we might see quad or octo MPs at the bottom and 6 or 12 core MPs at the top end.

[P]

Why will Gulftown be in very limited supply? It's going to be smaller than Bloomfield, Lynnfield and Gainestown, after all. Is the 32nm process that immature?

[Simon]

Gulftown is the first Westmere. And Westmere is a new process. No surprise supply will be tight. Plenty of other manufacturers are stuck trying to get decent yield around 40-45nm.

[P]

Except it isn't the first Westmere - Clarkdale is. It's been out a few months - usually enough to shake things down. Sure 32nm is cutting edge, but so was 45nm for Penryn, and that worked out.

[mduell]

Intel is pumping out 32nm Westmere-2C parts; they're already in the consumer volume markets.

Westmere-6C is a lot bigger chip so defects really hurt yield.

[Simon]

Looks like Apple is getting ready to move out the remaining current-generation Mac Pros.

[Simon]

German reseller starts taking orders for the six-core Core i7 980X. At €1099 a pop.

[Simon]

Some speculation about new Mac Pros next week.

Tipster Report: Mac Pro 'hexacore' Xeon Core i7-980x coming Tuesday | Hardware 2.0 | ZDNet.com

They again talk about the Core i7-980X rather than the Xeon X5680.

[JoshuaZ]

Lets hope they also refresh the Macbook Pro line. It's been 280 days since their last Macbook Update. Way too long in this market. They could use some fresh processors, graphics card bump, and some overall improved specs.

Not that I'm silently waiting or anything...

[Simon]

It wouldn't surprise me if the MP and MBP were updated the same day. Whatever it takes to prevent distraction from the GodPad launch.

[Simon]

Intel officially launches hexacore Gulftown Xeon 5600 series

32nm, 12MB L3, 2x6.4 GT/s QPI, 2.26-3.33 GHz (TB->3.6 GHz), Hyperthreading, 60-130W

[P]

Note that the bigger L3 cache means that L3 cache latency, and with it main memory latency, has gone up a bit. Still, all in all it's 50% more cores at more or less the same price and TDP.

[macaddict0001]

Of course with a larger cache memory doesn't have to be accessed as often.

[P]

Compared to having 8 megs on a Gulftown, sure. Compared to Bloomfield/Gainestown, no. The cache was increased to make sure that each core can still use 2 megs of its own. I'm sure the tradeoff makes sense for Gulftown, but it's worth noting that code that will not use all 6 cores is going to be minutely slower.

[Simon]

AppleInsider speculation: Mac Pro update in June, expect release next to new 27" ACD

[Simon]

Mac head: Is everything about the iPad now? The wait for the new MBP and MP has me worried. Will there ever be an update?
Steve: Don't worry.

Supposedly a true story.

[olePigeon]

I almost wanna email Steve and see if I can get a funny one liner response from him.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I almost wanna email Steve and see if I can get a funny one liner response from him.

Hehe. Keep us posted.

You have to wonder though, of the hundreds of emails like that he gets every day how does he chose which ones to reply to?

[Simon]

So we've almost reached May and still no Westmere Mac Pro.

There have been rumors that Intel "launched" Gulftown/Westmere in order to pre-empt AMD's hexacore, but that they're not actually shipping in volume until summer. That would explain why there have been no signs from Apple. And incidentally that would go rather well with the rumors that Apple plans not to update the MP before June.

Does anybody want to bet on the price of the new low-end MP? Does anybody here believe they'll launch a more modest model around $1999? Or is there consensus that they'll remain north of $2500 for the entire Mac Pro line?

[SierraDragon]

The current bottom not-inexpensive end of the MP has been an unacceptable purchase at its price point. I hope that other buyers realized that and that sales suffered greatly, and that Apple rectifies that situation in the next gen.

However I do not subscribe to the position that Apple should go after the low end (e.g. $1500); I do think that $1999 for entry level would be very appropriate so long as expansion (e.g. RAM like the Quad) is not grossly constrained. With the current price of components $2500 entry level is too high. The MP box itself is beautiful so hopefully they do not have to invest in case changes.

I for one can live without the very fastest very most expensive processor config but RAM slots are a necessity.

-Allen

[Lateralus]

Remember when Apple abandoned PowerPC under the guise of avoiding further periods of stagnation in their desktop lineup? Anybody wanna argue that the Mac Pro has advanced further in its 3 years of life than the G5 did in its 3 years?

Truly laughable. It seems Apple is intentionally trying to scare off the pro user base that kept the platform afloat through its dark ages.

[Snow-i]

Its unfortunate that the Mac Pro lacks the "cutting edge" factor its pricepoint demands, and was promised.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Truly laughable. It seems Apple is intentionally trying to scare off the pro user base that kept the platform afloat through its dark ages.

Steve has been flicking pros off ever since he realized it's much more trendy to sell fancy gadgets and content.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Simon 

There have been rumors that Intel "launched" Gulftown/Westmere in order to pre-empt AMD's hexacore, but that they're not actually shipping in volume until summer. That would explain why there have been no signs from Apple. And incidentally that would go rather well with the rumors that Apple plans not to update the MP before June.

This just in:

"Intel informed its distribution networks that the 6 core Xeon will only be available in limited quantity until at the end of the second quarter."

Hardmac.com : Le "Macbidouille" in English - No 6 core Xeons in quantity before the end of the second quarter

[Spheric Harlot]

That might be due to the fact that Apple's getting them all until then.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That might be due to the fact that Apple's getting them all until then.

Here's hoping.

[SierraDragon]

Yup.

[Todd Madson]

We wait. I'm nursing my dying G5 along a little more.

I'm hoping for a Pro but if I have to get a Corei7 iMac I will. The price of the Mac Pros is unreal for what you get.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Todd Madson 

We wait. I'm nursing my dying G5 along a little more.

I'm hoping for a Pro but if I have to get a Corei7 iMac I will. The price of the Mac Pros is unreal for what you get.

Indeed. Personally, I'm most anxious about the updated pricing. In terms of spec we have a fairly good idea of what we'll see. But I'm curious if Apple is going to keep pricing them the way they have in recent updates or if they will offer something around $2k. Asking for more than $1999 for the current low-end MP is outright ludicrous.

[Lateralus]

There's a certain humor to this - consider how many world crises have occurred since Apple last updated the Mac Pro.

433 days and counting...