[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Everything I've ever seen has led me to the conclusion that Zune owners are people that actively wanted to avoid the iPod.

I feel like that's one of the, if not the, biggest reason someone wouldn't get an iPod - simply to avoid having what everyone else has, which is what SanDisk's "iDon't" campaign was playing to.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I feel like that's one of the, if not the, biggest reason someone wouldn't get an iPod - simply to avoid having what everyone else has, which is what SanDisk's "iDon't" campaign was playing to.

Those are usually the same people that would make fun of you for being different a decade ago, as an excuse to make a dig at liking Apple.

[starman]

If the Zune wasn't such a blatant attempt by MS to get into the portable music market, maybe the thing itself wouldn't be so bad. But it's MS being MS and doing their "me too" dance.

I don't understand why people hate the iPod so much. Didn't anyone ever lug around one of those friggin' Creative Nomad Jukeboxes? God, that thing was a bitch to carry around...and then BAM! the iPod comes out.

So Apple made it. BFD. It works.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by starman 

If the Zune wasn't such a blatant attempt by MS to get into the portable music market, maybe the thing itself wouldn't be so bad. But it's MS being MS and doing their "me too" dance.

I don't understand why people hate the iPod so much. Didn't anyone ever lug around one of those friggin' Creative Nomad Jukeboxes? God, that thing was a bitch to carry around...and then BAM! the iPod comes out.

So Apple made it. BFD. It works.

But I can't use some sort of obscure, rare file format with it! I'm LOCKED into the most common, industry-standard formats!

[starman]

LOL yeah, the three people on the planet that use ogg are still pissed over the iPod. Granted, I don't understand why Apple just doesn't support the damn format.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Everything I've ever seen has led me to the conclusion that Zune owners are people that actively wanted to avoid the iPod.

I don't really want to avoid the iPod. I'm not all that thrilled with the new UI, or the fact that my old accessories won't work with the new ones (FM transmitter, remote control, etc.). However, before I got my Zune, I'd already decided I was going to buy another older gen iPod on eBay when my Photo crapped out (or else just buy a new HDD for the Photo), because I like the iPod's hardware and firmware, and I have a lifetime universal license for Anapod Explorer.

Then I got my Zune, and I just really like using it. The UI is slick and sexy, the touchpad control is ridiculously easy to use (I have a lot of music...my thumb starts to cramp from cycling through tracks on my iPod, but that's more likely because I'm just a wimp), and things like feature updates on previous models from MS are attractive to me.

The Zune will likely never trump the iPod. It's unlikely that anything will ever trump the iPod, unless Apple does something supremely stupid and pisses off the majority of their iPod customers (also unlikely).

Originally Posted by starman 

If the Zune wasn't such a blatant attempt by MS to get into the portable music market, maybe the thing itself wouldn't be so bad. But it's MS being MS and doing their "me too" dance.

I don't understand why people hate the iPod so much. Didn't anyone ever lug around one of those friggin' Creative Nomad Jukeboxes? God, that thing was a bitch to carry around...and then BAM! the iPod comes out.

So Apple made it. BFD. It works.

Um....every music player out there is an attempt to get into the portable music market. Look at SanDisk. Before they started rolling out the Sansa line, they were almost exclusively a flash-based media manufacturer. Other companies like Sony, Samsung, and Toshiba got into the portable music market as an extension of existing media product lines. Microsoft has been a longtime competitor in the consumer electronics market, particularly with computer peripherals (joysticks, mice, keyboards, etc.). They've gotten into other electronics areas more recently, particularly with the xbox line. I don't think it's at all a stretch for them to jump into the digital media market.

The iPod certainly revolutionized the portable music market. Before the iPod, MP3 players were bulky, overpriced, complex, and only for geek types. Then the iPod came onto the scene, with simple software, a simple UI, and an extremely simple hardware interface. It was smaller and sexier than anything on the market.

It was only a matter of time before other companies would start designing and marketing competitors to the iPod. Once R&D types started figuring out what constituted a good experience at both a hardware and firmware level, there were all kinds of alternatives to the iPod.

The iPod vs. Nomad argument is entirely moot. Nobody makes huge, bulky, heavy, 2.5"-HDD-based MP3 players anymore (at least, none of the big companies; I'm sure you could find something on DealExtreme.com). Most other digital media players on the market compete pretty fairly with the iPod line in size and weight.

There are definitely people who hate the iPod for the sake of hating the iPod, or for the sake of hating Apple. I don't hate the iPod at all; I just found something I liked better.

[starman]

Nobody makes Nomad-type players anymore, but I was talking about 8 years ago when I had to lug that thing around to the gym, and wait an eternity to transfer an album to it. That's what made the iPod so cool - it was light, had Firewire (was USB 2 out then?), a nice UI, and iTunes was descended from SoundJam which everyone loved.

I, too, have yet to see a Zune in the wild.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by starman 

Nobody makes Nomad-type players anymore, but I was talking about 8 years ago when I had to lug that thing around to the gym, and wait an eternity to transfer an album to it. That's what made the iPod so cool - it was light, had Firewire (was USB 2 out then?), a nice UI, and iTunes was descended from SoundJam which everyone loved.

I, too, have yet to see a Zune in the wild.

USB 2.0 came out around 2002.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

USB 2.0 came out around 2002.

It didn't really start to spread until 2003, and it wasn't introduced into the Mac world until late 2003.

And it was certainly not rare to still find new PCs with only USB 1.1 on them until well into 2004.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I feel like that's one of the, if not the, biggest reason someone wouldn't get an iPod - simply to avoid having what everyone else has, which is what SanDisk's "iDon't" campaign was playing to.

Unless someone needed a feature which Apple refused to include in the iPod - such as a decent recording feature. Originally the iPod had no way to record audio at all - then it had horrible-quality audio recording via an expensive and bulky adapter, then it had better but still not good audio recording via an even more expensive and bulky adapter, and only recently do they finally add the ability to just connect a microphone and record - but you probably need a third-party app, and the quality probably still isn't great. The iPod definitely isn't the best solution for everyone.

(not that the Zune is any better in this regard)

[design219]

A new A VERY NSFW video masquerading as a Zune Ad.

Enjoy!

*edit*
Some consider this NSFW. meh

[brassplayersrock²]

This video or group may contain content that is inappropriate for some users, as flagged by YouTube's user community.
By clicking "Confirm", you are agreeing that all videos or groups flagged by the YouTube community will be viewable by this account.

hahaha

edit:

aww, I see why (nsfw) (do not click if vomitable)

 

[Oisín]

That was, if you’ll pardon the obviousness of the pun, a really, really shitty ad.

[Laminar]

Well, it wasn't real.

[imitchellg5]

No really? Haven't you seen that happen?

[Railroader]

cannot unsee. ugh.

[Eriamjh]

30GB Zunes failing everywhere at once

Cool!

[osiris]

That is interesting. It's like Y2K+9!

[design219]

Wow, a problem with a Microsoft product?

[starman]

OMG.

That's can't be real.

But it is.


BUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!

[angelmb]

The Day The 30GB Zune Stood Still

[sek929]

<looks nervously at Xbox 360>

[iomatic]

Called it!

[Dakar V]

Where?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by sek929 

<looks nervously at Xbox 360>

I found GTA IV on Amazon two days ago for $17. I bought it and went to the TV room to play some Saint's Row, only to find my roommate's 360 got the red rings. For the fourth time.

[Dakar V]

I bet he still doesn't get a PS3 or Wii instead.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

I bet he still doesn't get a PS3 or Wii instead.

Well, he's going overseas for the next six months, so video games aren't his top financial priority at this point. Although I just found out it should work after it's "reset" - basically unplug the fans and turn it on until the red lights go from 3 to 2, then turn it off and let it cool. After that it will work fine - this has had to be done about 5 times in the past.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Well, he's going overseas for the next six months, so video games aren't his top financial priority at this point. Although I just found out it should work after it's "reset" - basically unplug the fans and turn it on until the red lights go from 3 to 2, then turn it off and let it cool. After that it will work fine - this has had to be done about 5 times in the past.

So I'm right then. Thanks.
dickdickdickdickdickdickdickdickdickdickdickdickdi ckdick

[Laminar]

Dick.

[Dakar V]

So are you playing under the Gamertag you bought or under your buddy's?

[brassplayersrock²]

must be all the people getting zunes on woot causing the problems.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

So are you playing under the Gamertag you bought or under your buddy's?

Buddy's. I just registered for a trial with that name, but ended up never using it.

[Laminar]

Also, the XBox is working once again.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by starman 

LOL yeah, the three people on the planet that use ogg are still pissed over the iPod. Granted, I don't understand why Apple just doesn't support the damn format.

Because it's a legal minefield.

Ogg Vorbis developers claim that it's free of patent issues. They're small fry, no one's bothered to take them to court over it. If Apple supports it and ships it, they're a big target, and Fraunhöfer and MPEG-LA will find the patent and extract large sums of cash from Apple for it. Apple can't pay them outright for it to avoid the issue up front because Ogg claims there is none - Apple can't expose themselves to the risk that there is.

For this reason, Ogg will remain the unadopted unloved format/codec that it is. Get a Neuros mp3 player from 10 years ago, or get a device that can load RockBox firmware.

[brassplayersrock²]

when zunes attack!

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

The Day The 30GB Zune Stood Still

Just for a day. M$ says they will reboot properly on Jan 1, 2009.

What I don't understand is why a leap year bug would occur on Dec 31 of a leap year or at all.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

What I don't understand is why a leap year bug would occur on Dec 31 of a leap year or at all.

It depends on how they handle dates. If it's based on a count of days, then having the year stay the same on the 366th day, that could conceivably be the source of the glitch. Or not. Maybe it was something else entirely. I can see having the wrong date show up being much more likely than a completely locked device when it's just date/time handling that's screwy.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

OFor this reason, Ogg will remain the unadopted unloved format/codec that it is.

Moreover, what advantages does it offer over MP3 or AAC? It seems to me that those two mainstream formats work just great.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by tooki 

Moreover, what advantages does it offer over MP3 or AAC? It seems to me that those two mainstream formats work just great.

Well *if* it were copyright free (which is what it claims, but never been tested), it would mean encoders and devices could be made without paying any licensing fee.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by tooki 

Moreover, what advantages does it offer over MP3 or AAC? It seems to me that those two mainstream formats work just great.

Ogg people are the same ones that insist on Linux for the desktop.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Well *if* it were copyright free (which is what it claims, but never been tested), it would mean encoders and devices could be made without paying any licensing fee.

Is straight MP3 somehow copyright bound? Straight (non-protected) AAC? Ogg has the reputation of being a geeky format, and its options and front ends tend to be just as geeky, while the more mainstream formats are supported by tools that make things easier, rather than more involved. I've enjoyed music encoded with Ogg, but I haven't yet found a good reason to go with it instead of MP3.

[Big Mac]

MP3 is patent encumbered, which makes geeks dislike it, but the patents generally aren't enforced.

[vmarks]

http://mp3licensing.com/licensees/index.asp - Fraunhöfer's arm to collect fees from any device that supports mp3 playback.

Look and you'll see that Apple pays the license fees.

Even the common linux mp3 encoder is aware of the issue, and is named LAME. LAME is a recursive acronym which stands for LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder. It started in 1998 because Fraunhöfer was cracking down on efforts to make an MP3 encoder outside of their licensing or other blessing. (LAME is available for OS X and gets used within some great OS X products like Rogue Amoeba's Fission audio editor. It also was used in Audion, and is possible to make it the encoder for iTunes.)

Honestly, Ogg wouldn't be hard to support properly in a sane way that wouldn't have to be associated with the "linux on the desktop wires'n'pliers" types. It's the legal minefield that keeps it from ever getting there.

Seriously, if Apple could be sure that there were no legal repercussions in the form of huge punitive fees, they could implement it and make it the default format as they did with AAC, and get Ogg adoption up in a quick way. It's far safer to pay the fees up front - and that's something that cannot be done with Ogg.

Who had heard of AAC before Apple supported it on newer iPods? Very few.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Apple won't go Ogg and neither will MS or anyone else big. It is going to stay a geek format so anyone who things it is the bomb needs to accept that.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Apple won't go Ogg and neither will MS or anyone else big. It is going to stay a geek format so anyone who things it is the bomb needs to accept that.

Chicken and Egg problem. It won't gain adoption outside of geeks because it won't be adopted by MS or Apple. It won't be adopted by MS or Apple due to the legal minefield, so it won't gain adoption outside of geeks.

The software for OS X isn't bad -

http://www.nouturn.com/oggdrop/ is an encoder, with FreeDB track info lookup.

http://www.xiph.org/quicktime/ is the QT component that enables playback.

Of course, I haven't loaded it in a few years - there's no sense to bother, really, the audio quality is only mildly better. Big numbers better on paper, small numbers to my ears.

[vmarks]

I should mention that when Apple announced AAC, they also announced Apple Lossless which is a form of AAC, a lossy format.

A lot of audio geeks cried out in pain at Apple not choosing FLAC. It's beginning to get some adoption as artists are using it (Paul McCartney, Trent Reznor, Pearl Jam, Brian Eno, etc.) and you'll find it among the file sharers, but you'll need to get an application like Songbird if you want to play it.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

I should mention that when Apple announced AAC, they also announced Apple Lossless which is a form of AAC, a lossy format.

A lot of audio geeks cried out in pain at Apple not choosing FLAC. It's beginning to get some adoption as artists are using it (Paul McCartney, Trent Reznor, Pearl Jam, Brian Eno, etc.) and you'll find it among the file sharers, but you'll need to get an application like Songbird if you want to play it.

Apple really should have gone with FLAC. The only reason I can think they didn't is the possibility of selling lossless tracks on the iTunes store that are copy protected. You can't do that with FLAC. But they haven't done that yet, so creating a brand new format seems strange to me.

And you can play FLAC files in iTunes - http://cubicfruit.com/fluke/

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

I should mention that when Apple announced AAC, they also announced Apple Lossless which is a form of AAC, a lossy format.

A lot of audio geeks cried out in pain at Apple not choosing FLAC. It's beginning to get some adoption as artists are using it (Paul McCartney, Trent Reznor, Pearl Jam, Brian Eno, etc.) and you'll find it among the file sharers, but you'll need to get an application like Songbird if you want to play it.

Apple Lossless is not a form of AAC (although they both use the same .m4a container). It's a completely different, and lossless, format.

I, too, don't really understand why Apple felt the need to reinvent the wheel with their lossless format, but as a practical matter it's trivial to convert between Apple Lossless and FLAC using a program like Max. Of course, it's still inconvenient if you need to store both versions, but since I only use lossless compression as an archive of my CDs (I use a lossy library for my day-to-day listening), I've been able to stick with Apple Lossless for now.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Is straight MP3 somehow copyright bound? Straight (non-protected) AAC? Ogg has the reputation of being a geeky format, and its options and front ends tend to be just as geeky, while the more mainstream formats are supported by tools that make things easier, rather than more involved. I've enjoyed music encoded with Ogg, but I haven't yet found a good reason to go with it instead of MP3.

Both MP3 and AAC are copyright bound. You have to pay a licensing fee to use them. AAC requires every codec creator to pay a license and http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/ It will remain this way for MP3 until 2012. Some people like the fact that there is no cost to use OGG and will bitch and moan about the added costs of supporting a licensed format.

[ghporter]

I thought the copyright on MP3 expired in 2006... And that AAC was something differently licensed (but I'd never really looked into it). I've used LAME on both OS X and Windows platforms and found it really works great. I digitized a long series of cassettes my late father-in-law left behind, creating CDs of his stories for my wife and her siblings, and the capture tool I used (I think it was Audacity) transparently incorporated LAME so all I had to worry about was start and stop points. Very nice.