[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by dzp111 

Is it possible that the aboriginals (the tribal people (Africans?)) were the only race when BSG people landed? Then Hera's DNA /genes contributed to creating more races?

The idea is that they've landed in Africa after homo sapiens have evolved but before they moved out of Africa to colonize the rest of the world, which is why they picked 150,000 years ago. This puts them just before (in an evolutionary time scale) that migration happened.

edit: I think the cold island Tyrol was referring to is the UK.

[dzp111]

Where were the dinosaurs?

: )

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Other than the colony there must have still been baseships with 8's, 1's, simons and Dorels out there as they mentioned 2 of them jumped in range of the colony when they took photographs. Kinda disapointed they left that one open.

In the latest Mo Ryan interview, Moore says that, as far as he's concerned, all the other cylons have been destroyed. I think the idea is that most were killed off during the Cylon Civil War. I have a feeling there weren't that many to begin with, or at least not nearly as many as there were people.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'm surprised to find I seem to be the one who liked it least.

To start with, I really didn't buy everybody in the fleet just merrily going along with Lee's hippy bullshit. Even Badger was like, "Wow, that's hard to believe."

Look at it this way: if you'd spent almost your entire life at war, during which time you'd seen 99.9% of the human race destroyed, you might want to spend the rest of your life sitting on the side of a mountain, staring at the coulds.

Then the show flakes out on answering the fundamental questions about Head

It's pretty explicit she's an angel or a being in service of God, just as she's said she is all along. That's not even hard to figure out, dude.

flakes out even worse on Starbuck

Once again, the series has been explicit she has a destiny to fulfill. Once she's done that, she's done.

Sam committed suicide for no good reason

He's a vegetable. And remember his last words to Kara: "See you on the other side."

[Eriamjh]

The end of a show is never satifying. However, I was not disappointed.

I guess I will start referring to every robotic machine I ever see as a Cylon, from now on. That's a plot point I didn't see coming until it was upon me.

And the "plan" that "they" had, appeared to not be the Cylon's plan, but the plan of the angels.

I teared up when I heard the original theme when the fleet went into the sun. Funny how good music is appropriate at the right times.

I think Tyrol went to Ireland or Scotland.

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by dzp111 

Where were the dinosaurs?

: )

That was 65 million years ago. And their spaceships left earth long before Galactica found it.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Did they ever explain how the 2000 year old Temple of Hope Turned into the Temple of the 5 without the final five knowing it?

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Did they ever explain how the 2000 year old Temple of Hope Turned into the Temple of the 5 without the final five knowing it?

Nope. May be answered in the comic.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

edit: I think the cold island Tyrol was referring to is the UK.

I was thinking Ireland. Galen was a traditional Irish Celt name, and that alto flute in the background definitely made me think of the old country.

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

I have a feeling there weren't that many to begin with, or at least not nearly as many as there were people.

Millions, according to Ellen Tigh

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Did they ever explain how the 2000 year old Temple of Hope Turned into the Temple of the 5 without the final five knowing it?

The will of God seems to be the catch-all for unanswered questions.

Although there are questions that I still have, the thing that's bugging me the most is the Centurions. There's still old-timey 0005 Cylons on the colony, the ones that that revolted against humanity in the first place. They are self aware, so why would they allow Cavil and his ilk to limit the new model centurions and effectively make them slaves to the skin jobs. It seems to me they would have had some empathy for their clanking brethren. When they fancy rebel toasters had their intellectual limiter gizmos removed the first thing they did was machine gun the jag-offs that were lobotomizing the raiders. That doesn't really fit for me, and I would have rather had some screen time about that than the Daniel nonsense.

I also found the end of Starbuck's story unsatisfying. But the battle scenes were pretty rocking, and I dug seeing the red-stripe rebel toasters tearing it up along side the fleet (and good for them, they scored themselves a pimp ride out of the deal). Now that I think about it, I find the centurions and raiders far more interesting characters than the skin jobs.

Over all, it wasn't nearly as lame as I was worried it was going to be, and it was definitely one of the better episodes of the season.

[k squared]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Did they ever explain how the 2000 year old Temple of Hope Turned into the Temple of the 5 without the final five knowing it?

I have many of my own questions which I would like answered...but in the end, what's the big deal? I would like to know why Stonehenge exists, but not every historical artifact or temple can be explained when written/oral history is lost.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Still not quite certain how Starbuck was the "harbinger of death"

Geez, I thought it was totally clear many episodes ago that referred to the destruction of the ressurection hub. Starbuck brought the concept of true death to the Cylons and brought them to the same level as the humans in the war.

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Yeah I agree - even though I'm very satisfied with how everything turned out I really don't see the importance of Hera at all.

If you know the theory of "mitochondria Eve" it says that there is an actual woman who is the great great great etc grandmother of ALL the surviving people on Earth. If that person turned out to be the only known half-human/half-cylon in history I think it's pretty important.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

The colony ship isn't made of the same material as Galactica. Jumping near a colony ship, base star, etc. might not have any affect because their materials are stronger than steel, but flexible.

What ever happened with all that Cylon goo smeared all over the inside of the ship anyway? Talk about a dropped storyline!

All in all it seems like the end to an intense serious show was kind of a lighthearted joke warning about technology. I didn't like it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Geez, I thought it was totally clear many episodes ago that referred to the destruction of the ressurection hub. Starbuck brought the concept of true death to the Cylons and brought them to the same level as the humans in the war.

I don't think Starbuck had anything to do with the destruction of the Hub?

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Yeah I agree - even though I'm very satisfied with how everything turned out I really don't see the importance of Hera at all.

Well, she's indirectly responsible for the jump to "Earth." Starbuck got the coordinates from the song via Hera's drawings, right?

[RAILhead]

And what's the deal with Starbuck's Dad? How did he come to write the song?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by lavar78 

Well, she's indirectly responsible for the jump to "Earth." Starbuck got the coordinates from the song via Hera's drawings, right?

actually, starbuck already knew the song from her childhood. Hera's drawing sparked the memory.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I was thinking Ireland. Galen was a traditional Irish Celt name, and that alto flute in the background definitely made me think of the old country.

Just read an interview with Moore in which he says it's Scotland.

Millions, according to Ellen Tigh

So, not many compared to billions of humans.


The will of God seems to be the catch-all for unanswered questions.

Although there are questions that I still have, the thing that's bugging me the most is the Centurions. There's still old-timey 0005 Cylons on the colony, the ones that that revolted against humanity in the first place. They are self aware, so why would they allow Cavil and his ilk to limit the new model centurions and effectively make them slaves to the skin jobs. It seems to me they would have had some empathy for their clanking brethren.

There are several things:

1) It's been established that the Centurions have a limited intelligence when compared to humans and skin jobs, and I think a limited emotional intelligence;
2) I am of the opinion that the old Centurions are a minority among the cylons, and may not have been able to stop them. It also seems that the new Centurions are more capable than the old, so perhaps they just didn't realize what was happening.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

All in all it seems like the end to an intense serious show was kind of a lighthearted joke warning about technology. I didn't like it.

Lighthearted joke? The central theme of the show was "all this has happened before, and will happen again." The entirety of the plan seems to have been to engineer a way to avoid that.

[andi*pandi]

I found it very satisfying, despite being led down the Daniel path. I wanted a little bit more for Kara, but it makes sense that she and Lee could never be together, were never right. Very glad Chief took out Tory.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

actually, starbuck already knew the song from her childhood. Hera's drawing sparked the memory.

Exactly. Kara couldn't remember the song completely until she saw Hera's drawing. Then, while trying to decipher what Hera's additional drawings meant, she assigned numbers to the notes and came up with the jump coordinates.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

If you know the theory of "mitochondria Eve" it says that there is an actual woman who is the great great great etc grandmother of ALL the surviving people on Earth. If that person turned out to be the only known half-human/half-cylon in history I think it's pretty important.

That doesn't make sense when there were 38,000 other people on the planet with her at the time, not to mention the tribes of humans already on the planet. Are we to believe that only Hera made with the baby making?!

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

That doesn't make sense when there were 38,000 other people on the planet with her at the time, not to mention the tribes of humans already on the planet. Are we to believe that only Hera made with the baby making?!

What you are supposed to believe is that a large percentage of humans on earth are related to Hera/"Eve". The fleet split up on the planet and went all over. Some groups may not have survived genetically or were wiped out. Perhaps Hera went on to have a primitive boyfriend?

In the end, knowledge was gained and lost, like the pyramids, Stonehenge, etc. People got wiped out.

It is a stretch, but it seems to me that Ronald Moore wasn't working towards the end of the series until the last few episodes of the season, expecting there to be a season 5. The show was dragging along with no obvious apparent conclusion until the last 3-4 hours when it made some lightning fast progress and then was suddendly over. I'd like to know if there was a different plan originally conceived or if they were just in a "make it up as we go along" mode the whole time.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

What you are supposed to believe is that a large percentage of humans on earth are related to Hera/"Eve". The fleet split up on the planet and went all over. Some groups may not have survived genetically or were wiped out. Perhaps Hera went on to have a primitive boyfriend?

In the end, knowledge was gained and lost, like the pyramids, Stonehenge, etc. People got wiped out.

It is a stretch, but it seems to me that Ronald Moore wasn't working towards the end of the series until the last few episodes of the season, expecting there to be a season 5. The show was dragging along with no obvious apparent conclusion until the last 3-4 hours when it made some lightning fast progress and then was suddendly over. I'd like to know if there was a different plan originally conceived or if they were just in a "make it up as we go along" mode the whole time.

Right, but she is hardly the beginning of the human race on Earth. In that sense, she is not Eve. And in fact, she is not any more important than any of the other people that landed on Earth.

In fact, the only thing important about Hera was that the characters *believed* she was important, and took actions based on that belief.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

In fact, the only thing important about Hera was that the characters *believed* she was important, and took actions based on that belief.

She was apparently important to the Cylons. They'd been trying to figure out how to procreate even before they lost the Resurrection Hub. So, one could say she was important to the Humans only so far as the Cylons didn't get her. But, then, the Humans were willing to give the knowledge of how Resurrection worked in order to get Hera back, which I didn't understand; the Cylons are *far* more powerful with Resurrection than without.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I watched it again and it seems Hera was important because she was the bases for ALL modern man making it seem that we all have Cylon in us and the rest of the human colonists didn't do much when it came to reproducing. Perhaps only the stronger humanoids with Cylon blood survived and became dominant.

BTW did anyone get a load on how HUGE the colony was? It looked larger than New York but somehow they found their way around on foot in no time.

[RAILhead]

I also thought it was lame that the people we've been investing our lives in for 4 years just landed, wandered off -- then we fast-forward 150K years and they're gone.

I don't really know what I wanted in this episode, but I feel like it was just a quick cop-out somehow.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I watched it again and it seems Hera was important because she was the bases for ALL modern man making it seem that we all have Cylon in us and the rest of the human colonists didn't do much when it came to reproducing. Perhaps only the stronger humanoids with Cylon blood survived and became dominant.

Which means none of the other 38,000 survivors had any babies and Hera had a crapload. Sorry, I don't buy it.

[RAILhead]

But only Hera's descendants were part Cylon.

Tyrol went where there were no people.
I guess Blatar and Six could have had kids, though.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Which means none of the other 38,000 survivors had any babies and Hera had a crapload. Sorry, I don't buy it.

You don't have to buy it. Her importance is symbolic.

[andi*pandi]

How many other 8s survived? Cylons? Wouldn't they all have the same genes as Athena, if they had half-human kids would those kids and hera have more in common than any survivor plus earth-primitive?

Hera and her possible siblings would then be the missing link.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Which means none of the other 38,000 survivors had any babies and Hera had a crapload. Sorry, I don't buy it.

Not exactly. It means that the lines of any colonists that didn't interbreed with Hera's descendants ended.

[RodriCO2000]

Hera's importance lies in the fact that she was the first human/cylon hybrid. I'm sure all those eights, sixes and leobens found love and procreated with the colonials/natives. Hera was the "idea" that for both races to survive, they must co-exist...

I wonder where the centurions and the basestar went?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Not exactly. It means that the lines of any colonists that didn't interbreed with Hera's descendants ended.

That's a whole lot of people that just didn't make it, though. Doesn't make sense.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

That's a whole lot of people that just didn't make it, though. Doesn't make sense.

Well they did scatter in small groups with:

- Limited/no food supplies
- No weapons
- No seed stores (my assumption)
- No capacity for medical care beyond first aid and whatever stores of medicines they are carrying on their person (my assumption)
- Limited/no agricultural skills, or least, the skills they have are concentrated in a handful of people (my assumption)
- No knowledge of native edible wildlife and what they could even grow in the first place (my assumption)

I'd wager it very likely that a lot of them didn't make it. In fact, as Chuckit seemed to agree, that was one of my biggest problems with the finale -- that everyone would think it was a great idea to set out into the wilderness on an alien planet with limited supplies. Their chances of survival dropped significantly from what they would have been had they made camp and set out building New-New Caprica.

[Luca Rescigno]

Yeah, that bugged me too. It just didn't make sense that every single one of the colonials would have just dropped everything and settled with absolutely no supplies other than some clothes and maybe some tents. As in, hey everyone, let's go down to this planet and all die of starvation or exposure within six months! Yeah!

Besides, 150,000 years ago, there were no humans except the ones in Africa. So if any of the colonists did manage to survive and create a workable society somewhere, there'd be a fossil record of humans living in all parts of the world as far back as 150,000 years. More importantly, if they were able to thrive, they would have created much more advanced cultures than normally existed at the time thanks to their knowledge of language, politics, etc. Those would have repercussions for the future 150,000 years hence.

So either we're looking at an alternate universe in which humans were already distributed throughout the planet that long ago (unlike our own real world where they were only in Africa until about 50,000 years ago), or all of the colonists died out.

[starman]

The amount of over-analyzation astounds me.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

I'd like to know if there was a different plan originally conceived or if they were just in a "make it up as we go along" mode the whole time.

Read the interviews with Moore: they knew it was in the past, and that they first found a planet they thought was Earth, and then the real Earth, from the get go. This wasn't a last minute decision.

Actually, I'm surprised the whole thing hangs together as well as it does. Baltar's development, fr'instance, is pretty much spot on the entire series.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I found it very satisfying, despite being led down the Daniel path. I wanted a little bit more for Kara, but it makes sense that she and Lee could never be together, were never right. Very glad Chief took out Tory.

What "Daniel path"? Did we ever find out who Daniel was?

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

Read the interviews with Moore: they knew it was in the past, and that they first found a planet they thought was Earth, and then the real Earth, from the get go. This wasn't a last minute decision.

No, they found the planet that was Earth, then they found and settled a planet that they named Earth. I seem to recall Moore saying in a podcast something along the lines of this is Earth, The Earth, not Earth Mark I". I believe he even said point blank "This is Earth, our Earth". Or something to that effect.

Then I read this interview with Moore published today

What about the endings that you brainstormed that didn't get made for BSG? Can you talk about those at all?

There was a different ending that we had, it was all about Ellen aboard the Colony. She was sort of turned by Cavil, because she found out that Tigh had impregnated Caprica Six, and that deeply embittered her. And she sort of became dedicated to the idea of destroying Galactica and the fleet out of revenge. And [she and Cavil] got Hera, and then the final confrontation became very personalized between Tigh versus Ellen, and should they forgive.

That was the story, generally speaking. We didn't have a lot more than just what I spun out to you, when the writer's strike hit. Over the course of the writer's strike, I rethought about it and thought, "That's not going to do it. It's not epic enough. It's not interesting enough." That's when we decided to start over, and reinvent the last arc of the show.

I don't think they planned on having another "Earth", at least up to the time of the writers strike. The fact that they did contradicts what Moore had said previously, and although that can technically be explained away by the wording of what I paraphrased above, it doesn't explain how the land masses on the Cylon Earth" had an identical footprint to our hunk of rock on the other side of the galaxy I think it was a change added after Ron Moore decided against that very disappointing ending he talked about in this interview. So yeah it was pretty last minute, according to his own words.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by finboy 

What "Daniel path"? Did we ever find out who Daniel was?

Just what they said on the show, that it was the cylon model line that Cavil destroyed because he was jealous. It seemed significant in the context of the final episodes, but was never meant to be any more than interesting backstory about Cavil and the Fab Five.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I also thought it was lame that the people we've been investing our lives in for 4 years just landed, wandered off -- then we fast-forward 150K years and they're gone.

I don't really know what I wanted in this episode, but I feel like it was just a quick cop-out somehow.

Ya, the action was satisfying, but the final resolution was too much "God's will" and "act of God". It's easy to cop-out of answering the difficult questions you've raised through your plot by saying "it was an act of God".

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

But only Hera's descendants were part Cylon.

Tyrol went where there were no people.
I guess Blatar and Six could have had kids, though.

And, there were numerous other Cylon skin-jobs as well that might have been able to have children with humans. But, there were also an unknown number of indigenous humans. Given the numbers, I'd say the amount of Cylon blood in the human bloodstream 150,000 years later would be quite small, and there would probably even be segments of the population without *any* Cylon blood.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

Just what they said on the show, that it was the cylon model line that Cavil destroyed because he was jealous. It seemed significant in the context of the final episodes, but was never meant to be any more than interesting backstory about Cavil and the Fab Five.

yep, and I got fooled!

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by starman 

The amount of over-analyzation astounds me.

Indeed. But isn't what the forums are for?

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Which means none of the other 38,000 survivors had any babies and Hera had a crapload. Sorry, I don't buy it.

There's nothing to buy. 150,000 years later, we humans have not found many traces of previous humans that old. The one body that was found happened to be Hera. If they found Athena, she would be the "Eve" (and a frakkin' Cylon!). It takes away from Hera's importance when you think about it that way, doesn't it?

One thing about the history of this planet, we only know about it based on what we have found. We could have it all wrong because we haven't uncovered the right things, or those things are long long.

Like I said, Dinosaurs and their spaceships... Can't prove it didn't happen...

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

yep, and I got fooled!

You ain't the only one, pretty lady. I don't know how the writers and producers didn't realize that revelation was going to appear significant.

Anyway, here's seven clips from Caprica for your viewing pleasure

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

That's a whole lot of people that just didn't make it, though. Doesn't make sense.

As someone mentioned it doesn't mean that nobody else had babies or that none of them survived. It just means that they all had women descended from women descended from women descended from Hera somewhere in their family tree. You kindof have to read about mitochondria to know what that means. They say there really was a mitochondrial Eve based on examination of our mitochondrial DNA.

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

... 150,000 years later, we humans have not found many traces of previous humans that old. The one body that was found happened to be Hera. If they found Athena, she would be the "Eve" (and a frakkin' Cylon!). It takes away from Hera's importance when you think about it that way, doesn't it? One thing about the history of this planet, we only know about it based on what we have found. We could have it all wrong because we haven't uncovered the right things, or those things are long long.

You may be confusing Eve with Lucy.

[Wiskedjak]

I'm wondering when we're gonna find what's left of that raptor that Adama was flying around in.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Like I said, Dinosaurs and their spaceships... Can't prove it didn't happen...

I googled dinosaurs and spaceships to research this intriguing theory of yours and found this:


I think you might be on to something here. Doesn't that plane look a lot like the newer model vipers? Coincidence? Or the will of the One True God?

[Sourbook]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I'm wondering when we're gonna find what's left of that raptor that Adama was flying around in.

Indy found it.

They have top men working on it now. Top... men.

[lexapro]

Yes, the doctor.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

No, they found the planet that was Earth, then they found and settled a planet that they named Earth. I seem to recall Moore saying in a podcast something along the lines of this is Earth, The Earth, not Earth Mark I". I believe he even said point blank "This is Earth, our Earth". Or something to that effect.

Then I read this interview with Moore published today



I don't think they planned on having another "Earth", at least up to the time of the writers strike. The fact that they did contradicts what Moore had said previously, and although that can technically be explained away by the wording of what I paraphrased above, it doesn't explain how the land masses on the Cylon Earth" had an identical footprint to our hunk of rock on the other side of the galaxy I think it was a change added after Ron Moore decided against that very disappointing ending he talked about in this interview. So yeah it was pretty last minute, according to his own words.

Actually if you look back, RM was *VERY* careful not to say anything like "our" Earth. He definitely said it was "THE" Earth many times, and in the context of the show it was. They also never pulled back to show the land masses of the Cylon Earth.