[besson3c]

I know some people have difficulty with getting past rough edges in music, but lately I've been thinking that the rough edges are what makes certain music so beautiful. By rough edges I mean a quirky and unusual, unconventional voice, an unconventional way of playing an instrument, vocal impurities, problems with articulation, tension, whatever...

I've been thinking that these rough edges are the human story, and that in many ways they can actually enhance the music. Take Louis Armstrong's "What a Wonderful World"... Armstrong grew up in complete poverty, among complete racism, his Mom had to have sex for money to support the family, he was manipulated and controlled by the business, etc. When you hear him sing this song (or any song), whether subconsciously or consciously, I think that the music is deepened given that considering his life story, for *him* to be saying that the world is wonderful is pretty pretty uplifting. It's not just the words themselves though, but his entire expression and telling of this story. I think that some can sense this without even knowing anything about his life story.

This is pretty interesting to me, because as musicians we are trained to strive towards perfection and removing these sorts of rough edges. How does one make a Louis Armstrong, or a Chet Baker, or one of the great symphonic composers, or whomever else who either had musical imperfections or experienced a great deal of trauma in their life? Yet, there are many musicians without these problems who also created beautiful music, however they did it, finding something that allowed them to go a little deeper and create something with real staying power in our society.

I'm thinking that expressing beauty and sorrow in a profound way is one of the hardest things to do as a musician. My theory is that there is no way that a musician like Justin Beiber or somebody like that could really make a song like Wonderful World or a song like this work as well, because he doesn't know this same sort of struggle and trauma.

I'm not saying that there isn't beauty in contemporary music, or that this isn't subjective, or that there is a right and a wrong as far as how beauty is defined, but it definitely feels like the staying power of music expressing this range of emotion just isn't there.

Have we lost our sense of romance in our era? Is what musicians choose to express cyclical? Do you sometimes wonder if we'll ever see a new generation of musicians capable on contributing to music the same profound way that the musical giants of the past did? By "the past" I don't even mean that long ago - I'd include people like Eric Clapton, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, etc. in that last. Sure there are some great musicians, but do you feel that music as a whole is stagnating?

A lot of questions here, no real focus, so take this where you want, but I'm kind of interested in particular with your feedback on my theory about the difficulties of expressing beauty and sorrow in a profound way that has staying power.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My theory is that there is no way that a musician like Justin Beiber or somebody like that could really make a song like Wonderful World or a song like this work as well, because he doesn't know this same sort of struggle and trauma.

Even if he tried, someone would autotune the crap out of whatever was recorded having spliced together the best (most flawless) parts of several hundred takes. Also, you were using the term 'musician' rather generously here.

[abby]

i agree with you cause those musicians have experience different kinds of things we don't experience in a normal way. they have been through a lot and thru music they express it in a way that the music become so beautiful and soulful. it gives a lot of emotions and it can simply touch others lives.

i don't think a lot of musicians these days will be able to express the same way the past musicians did. it's like one in a million.

[andi*pandi]

Imperfection/reality is one of the reasons I prefer Janis to Whitney... but then again there are times when I think, damn Janis, have a cough drop.

See also Tom Wait, Patti Smith, PJ Harvey. Dylan maybe.

I don't know the history of these artists, and don't really need to. Can someone "fake" authenticity? Do you need to grow up poor and downtrodden to sing the blues? I didn't know that story about Armstrong but I still liked his music.

Justin Beiber / Armstrong isn't apples to apples. Beiber is young, and coached to be bubblegum, not gritty. In about 5 years he'll try to be taken "seriously."

[Spheric Harlot]

It's one of those fine lines. When mixing some stuff, you sometimes need to edit the performance, to make it convincing. Sometimes a take will be really gripping, but have a major gaffe in it or two. Or it's consistently slightly problematic technically (as in, say, vocal technique), but emotionally authentic. The production goal may be a polished product, because the band arrangement wouldn't work otherwise, that kind of thing.

The trick is to judge what needs editing, and what adds character.

On my own stuff, I tend to leave the first take and just edit out the major ****-ups. The rest is living, breathing atmosphere.

[olePigeon]

I always thought that a musician was someone who played an instrument, and that someone who sings is a vocalist. Or is musician a generic term, now?

[Spheric Harlot]

A musician is a person whose efforts result in music. It is completely irrelevant whether this is done with a voice or little splices of magnetic tape and found noises or found objects.

Vocals are just an Instrument.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Imperfection/reality is one of the reasons I prefer Janis to Whitney... but then again there are times when I think, damn Janis, have a cough drop.

See also Tom Wait, Patti Smith, PJ Harvey. Dylan maybe.

Yes, I was actually thinking about Wait and Dylan when I wrote my post, but I was trying to be concise

What actually inspired this post was this video:

Chet Baker Live (Belgium 1964) : Time After Time - YouTube

This video sends shivers up my spine it is so beautiful and touching, and Chet's life was really rough due to his heroine addiction (and perhaps women problems to a lesser extent). In this video you can see that he is missing a couple of teeth, which is usually not a good thing at all if you are a brass player. I believe the story is that they were knocked out when he couldn't produce the money necessary for his heroine or something.

I was thinking, damn, will we ever see another Chet Baker? The depth of what he is doing here is just unreal. Can we come close to something this profound in modern times, and can we do it without inducing this same sort of physical and mental trauma? I say physical, because the heroine really made him age quickly.

I realize this is somewhat subjective and you'll have examples you feel are deeper/more touching to you personally, so substitute whatever you want for this, as long as it's got that romantic sort of beauty and/or sadness to it

[Spheric Harlot]

That's amazing.

Just...wow.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That's amazing.

Just...wow.

Kind of the opposite of bubble gum, huh?

Sometimes I find myself feeling sad just thinking about this video. There was a point in his life after losing his teeth where he couldn't play and he had to work at a gas station for crazy long shifts. He had zero money, every cent going to his habit.

This is a guy that was a superstar in the 50s in particular, not only in the jazz world, but in Hollywood (he appeared in some movies). He had women swooning all over him, if it weren't for the habit he probably would have been rich. I think poverty must be toughest when you go from riches to rags due to your decisions which you are left to regret for the rest of your life. I know you reap what you sow, but still, it sucks that somebody who brought so much pleasure and enjoyment to others had such a fire life.

I also think that he would hire cheap sidemen at his gigs so he could pay them less. This band in this video is really not all that special compared to the sorts of talent he played with at other points in his career. Yet, his musicality was great enough that he could memorize like this.

Were you a Chet fan prior to seeing this video?

[besson3c]

Don't do drugs kids.

Young Chet Baker:



Older Chet Baker:





He would have been 26 years old in 1955, the approx period of the first photo. I don't know when the second photo was taken, but he died in 1988 (at 59 years old). I'd say the man in the second photo looks like he is in his 70s, not in his late 50s.