[simonjames]

Sorry cash - the mini has street cred - thats one category

[G4Y]

Originally posted by capuchin:
For my money, the Mini is the better of the two; far better construction, far better handling, and obviously a lot more care has gone into design.

I'll agree the Mini has better construction, better interior materials, and more STYLE, however, you're wrong about the handling. A neon out accelerates a mini, has a higher top speed, better 1/4 mile time, better skidpad result... all in all a neon would destroy a mini in every performance test. The ONLY reason to get a mini is STYLE and quality... not performance. Think PC vs Mac. But what pisses me off is if someone would say "Oh, the mini is kinda fast...oh the neon? Its slow".

- Ca$h

[Mastrap]

I'd say that on a twisty mountain road the Mini has pretty much everthing for breakfast.

[G4Y]

Except you know a car with more hp, more torque, lighter weight, better handling, and better braking...like.. oh say a NEON.

- Ca$h

[capuchin]

I can throw the mini into a tight 90 degree turn at 45mph, and have no slipping, no back wheels going out, no nothing. It's damn freaky. And thats why I'd have to say it wins the twisty mountain road contest. I would have pushed it higher than that, but, well, I guess I'm just chickensh*t ;-)

[Nimisys]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
I'd say that on a twisty mountain road the Mini has pretty much everthing for breakfast.

i would kill it in the twisties, and when i am done with it so would my Z

[G4Y]

See, this is exactly the kind of ignorance I'm talking about. A 1st gen neon has more power, more torque, and does better on the skidpad.

If you think your mini is fun to drive, go borrow a neon 5spd from someone. Yeah, the interior sucks but it'll whoop your mini's ass in.

- Ca$h

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by G4Y:
Yeah, the interior sucks but it'll whoop your mini's ass in.

- Ca$h

Bollocks.

[JackA$$]

Originally posted by Mastrap:


Bollocks.

You're wrong. Neons are faster in 0-60, the 1/4 mile, have better power/weight ratios, and have higher top speeds, and to top it off do better on the skidpad.

0-60 times:

Neon 5spd (1st gen): 7.5 seconds
Mini: 8.7 seconds
Neon SRT4: 5.8 seconds
Mini S: 7.3 seconds


Power/Weight Ratios

Neon 5spd (1st gen): 150hp,2400lbs = .0625
Mini: 115hp,2524lbs = .0455
Neon SRT4: 223hp*,2970lbs=
.075
Mini S: 161 hp,2550lbs = .0632

*= at the wheels, who knows how much at the flywheel

or the 1/4 mile?

Neon 5spd (1st gen): 15.9 @87mph
Mini: 16.8 @81.3mph
SRT4: 14.2 @99mph
Mini Type S: 15.8 @ 90mph

Skidpad?
Neon 5spd (1st gen): .82g
Mini: .79g
SRT4: .85g
Mini Type S: ???

or Top Speed?

Neon 5spd (1st gen): 118mph base, 130mph ACR or R/T
Mini (base): ??
SRT4: 148mph
Mini Type S: ??

Ah, but lets not forget about PRICE:

Neon R/T (1st gen): About 7,000
Mini (base) 20,000
SRT4: 20,000
Mini S: 27 grand fully loaded.


Sources:
http://www.projectviper.com/srt4/specs.html
sport compact car's review of the SRT4
http://neon.atsweb.net/Dodge_Neon_RT.html (car and driver neon R/T review)
car and driver as much as possible,
and when all else failed 'edmunds' even though they're inaccurate.

[capuchin]

Oh Jeez.

How did this get turned into another one of those tiresome "Neons Rock!" threads?

On a lighter note, my dealer is on the list for the 200hp Cooper conversion kit ...

[$quirrel]

Look at the facts. The neon is SUPERIOR to the god damn mini in terms of price and performance. PERIOD.

Anyone who argues this is a f*cking moron.

- Ca$h

[mrtaber]

Well, I wouldn't argue the price and performance at all. But the new Mini has a cachet, that certain something the Neon lacks (and this is not a slam at the Neon).

Kinda like fire-breathing, inexpensive PC's versus the Mac, I guess (to trot out the lame car simile).

I would buy the Mini because of its design, not so much because of its performance.

Mark

[$quirrel]

I agree completely. The mini has a LOAD of style... the neon (with the exception of the SRT4) lacks it completley... but it pisses me off when people talk about the mini's 'performance capabilities' as god's gift to the automotive realm. A FREAKING NEON IS FASTER AND BETTER IN EVERY PERFORMANCE CATERGORY. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, mini fans.

- Ca$h

[putamare]

Not everybody that buys a new car is a cheese eating teenybopper with an obsession for 0-60 or 1/4 mile stats. Other considerations might include:

Warranty -- the mini's exceeds the neon by a year in each category and has three years free scheduled maintenance (did you include those costs in your price evaluation?). Hmmm, seems BMW has more confidence in their cars than Dodge does.

Cargo space -- the mini has almost twice the cargo space as the neon (24 cu ft. vs 13). If you have the occasional need to move more than 13 cu ft. around, the neon wouldn't be a good bargain no matter what the price or how many teenagers you could dust at a traffic light.

Length -- the mini is almost a yard shorter than the neon, and in the battle for on-street parking, that can mean the difference between finding a space or not.

Safety -- with six airbags and numerous other safety features, I'm glad my wife was hit in a mini instead of a neon, she probably wouldn't have walked away uninjured otherwise. These are the kinds of things adults take into account when buying a car, not very sexy, but important nonetheless.

Fuel Economy -- mini beats the neon (not buy much), but you'd have to take that into account for the total cost of ownership, a value you'd need to calculate to come up with a price/performance ratio that meant anything. Also, some of us understand the nature of unrenewable resources, and don't feel that we have some nonexistant-supreme-being given entitlement to consume as much of it as we want just because we want to.

Quality -- how well are the two cars put together and how well will they hold up over time? The mini is well put together and feels like a precision machine. The neon, well, it feels like just another American car.

Value -- What is the blue book value of a 20K neon vs. a 20K mini going to be in 3, 4 and five years from now? Because of the demand right now, a month old 20K mini is already worth more than a month old 20K neon. It is my opinion that the mini is a smarter choice as an investment, but we won't really know for another couple of years.

Style & Design -- as has already been mentioned before, an AMD processor machine running windows XP has a higher "price/performance" ratio than my Mac, but that doesn't make it "better."

[$quirrel]

DUDE! IM NOT ARGUING THAT!

What pisses me off, LIKE I SAID, is when someone talks about how 'fast' and quick the new Mini is. The point is, when it comes to performance a NEON BEATS IT SENSELESS.

You can talk about the style and safetey and resale value of hte mini all day and you wont hear an argument from me, but when some moron starts trash talking things like "Oh yeah the mini is so awesome I went around a corner at 50mph" you have to face the freaking facts that a neon could to it faster. When someone talks about how awesome hte mini handles and disses the neon, I'm going to argue because the facts are right there people. The neon is a faster, quicker, better handling, and cheaper car. Its also less stylish, and less safe.

- Ca$h

[putamare]

It doesn't seem significantly cheaper (TCO).

[$quirrel]

Neon SRT4: 20,000 dollars
Mini Cooper S: Over 25,000 dollars.

1st gen neon: 4-6,000 dollars.

Base Mini: 20,000 dollars.

- Ca$h

[putamare]

Last time I checked 20K wasn't significantly cheaper than 20K. Factor in the total cost of ownership, & you'll find the neon is more.

[Nimisys]

base msrp on the cooper s is 19300

however its MFR cargo area: 5.3Cu feet

as for warruntees:

Code:
          Mini      Neon
Basic Warranty  
                48 mos.  36 mos. 
            50000 miles  36000 miles 
      
Powertrain Warranty  
                48 mos.  84 mos. 
            50000 miles  70000 miles 
      
 Rust Warranty  
                72 mos.  60 mos. 
        Unlimited Miles  100000 miles

[capuchin]

Ca$h-

a) Base Cooper ("Nicely equipped") MSRP is $17k. Base Cooper S MSRP is $19.3k. Go look it up on miniusa.com.

b) Where does it say that any thread relating to a car has to include the phrase of-course-car-x-sucks-next-to-a-neon�? This isn't an issue or a matter for debate for anyone but you. If I were you, I'd ignore posts that slam Neons - you know they're a great ride, so do most other people, and frankly you'd be doing us all a favor by not (predictably) rising to the bait.

c) Go drive a mini, and really throw it around. I'm sure its not the performer the neon is, but its still a really nice ride, and lots of fun. The fact that you like the neon doesn't negate the performance/fun factor of every other car ever made. Having said that, I've driven a bunch of small cars over the years, and on tight *tight* corners, the Mini is pretty freaking amazing. There's no proportional weight in the back end, so you have physics on your side. You're not going to believe me until you try it, so go test drive one and check it out for yourself.

d) They're both just freakin' cars. Go get drunk/stoned/laid and relax already.

Originally posted by $quirrel:
DUDE! IM NOT ARGUING THAT!

What pisses me off, LIKE I SAID, is when someone talks about how 'fast' and quick the new Mini is. The point is, when it comes to performance a NEON BEATS IT SENSELESS.

You can talk about the style and safetey and resale value of hte mini all day and you wont hear an argument from me, but when some moron starts trash talking things like "Oh yeah the mini is so awesome I went around a corner at 50mph" you have to face the freaking facts that a neon could to it faster. When someone talks about how awesome hte mini handles and disses the neon, I'm going to argue because the facts are right there people. The neon is a faster, quicker, better handling, and cheaper car. Its also less stylish, and less safe.

- Ca$h

[Mistah_P]

I like to drive, but I don't like cars in an urban area (pollution, et al).

But I must confess that I can see, demographically, why Mac users go for cars like that.

- Elegance and (apparent) simplicity.
- Slickness.
- respresentation of self thru our extentions.

Let's face it, alot of Mac users are from a background of people that can appreciate the way things are used (not only for their premier function) on a daily basis, thus their Mac use. These people (us... no shame about it) tend to have a functionnal vision of things But we also have an IDEA of what Sleekness and Happiness-In-An-Environment IS, and we know what we like.

The same can be said from a Cooper Owner (who probably uses a Mac himself... At least more than the 5% market share of Mac machines)

Originally posted by putamare:
Last time I checked 20K wasn't significantly cheaper than 20K. Factor in the total cost of ownership, & you'll find the neon is more.

Duh huhuh huhhu read my post duh huhu huhu h huhuh huh.

The BASE mini is almost 20Gs.

The Neon SRT4 with 225hp and mindblowing performance with viper seats cost 20Gs.

- Ca$h

Originally posted by Nimisys:
base msrp on the cooper s is 19300

however its MFR cargo area: 5.3Cu feet

as for warruntees:

Code:
          Mini      Neon
Basic Warranty  
                48 mos.  36 mos. 
            50000 miles  36000 miles 
      
Powertrain Warranty  
                48 mos.  84 mos. 
            50000 miles  70000 miles 
      
 Rust Warranty  
                72 mos.  60 mos. 
        Unlimited Miles  100000 miles

That's odd... you mean the mini has like zero storage space, and what storage space it does have is almost completley vertical? >scratches head< I guess those mini owners ranting about that above are just idiots. And whats that? The neon has a better powertrain warranty?

Face it, the mini isn't made of solid gold, quit acting like it is.

- Ca$h

[duboy]

Mistah_P you pretty much got the point of what i MEANT this thread to mean...at least someone knows what the true meaning is :-) Didn't mean for it to turn into a car discussion, although those are always good! anyway, yes, i tried to explain the whole thing at 5am, but that sooo didn't work. Back to work for me...

[capuchin]

Ca$h -

You're right about zero storage space - I get about 4-5 grocery bags in the back before having to fold the rear seats down. On the other hand, its a hell of a lot easier to park than my '89 Grand Marquis wagon ;-)

To clear one thing up - the base Cooper is $16,425. The base Cooper S is $19,425. That gets you 163hp in what is essentially the cheapest BMW that money can buy. Not a bad deal.

Originally posted by inno-cent:


That's odd... you mean the mini has like zero storage space, and what storage space it does have is almost completley vertical? >scratches head< I guess those mini owners ranting about that above are just idiots. And whats that? The neon has a better powertrain warranty?

Face it, the mini isn't made of solid gold, quit acting like it is.

- Ca$h

Still. Base mini cooper S vs SRT4..... easy answer as to which would be more fun to drive.

- Ca$h

[ort888]

Anyway...

I know the Mini has a lot of legroom, but what if you're 6'5"?

Also, how do they perform in the snow?

[capuchin]

I don't know about 6'5", but I'm a little over 6'2", and have at least a couple of inches headroom to play with. You'd probably be okay, but you'd have to push your seat pretty far back unless you like steering with your knees.

Haven't had any reason to drive it in the snow, so thats a good question. The mini comes with ASC as standard and Dynamic Stability Control as an added extra - I've driven on ice before and it's been no better nor worse than you might expect. I'll know for sure over the next few months ;-)

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by ort888:
Anyway...

I know the Mini has a lot of legroom, but what if you're 6'5"?

Also, how do they perform in the snow?

I know, I know. Late reply.


Ort888: I am 6'7" and I drive a classic Mini fitted with racing buckets and a seat extension with no problem. I tested the new BMW Mini and the seat goes way back. Really comfortable drive. The only drawback is that no-one will be able to sit behind ytou