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dharknes · Oct 25, 2003, 10:25 PM

Well it appears that my worst fears are true. The new Finder under Panther sucks almost as bad as the Finder under OS9. The only saving grace is it still has column view.

The stupid side bar thing makes it VERY hard to navigate and use column mode.

I don't like that if I select something off the side bar then that becomes the base column on the left. I REALLY liked having all my drives and network connections as the base column. For example if I click Applications then I can't use the keyboard to backup and navigate around my computer.

I just hope somebody releases a decent Finder replacement or I'll be spending a lot of time at the command line.

ae86_16v · Oct 25, 2003, 10:27 PM

Personally I find it very useful. I definitely like this more than Jag's even with Brush Metal and all

.

Actually what I like most is the Column of favorites to the right of it. Very easy to navigate and what not.

Maybe you just have to get use to it.

drainyoo · Oct 25, 2003, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by dharknes:
Well it appears that my worst fears are true. The new Finder under Panther sucks almost as bad as the Finder under OS9. The only saving grace is it still has column view.

The stupid side bar thing makes it VERY hard to navigate and use column mode.

I don't like that if I select something off the side bar then that becomes the base column on the left. I REALLY liked having all my drives and network connections as the base column. For example if I click Applications then I can't use the keyboard to backup and navigate around my computer.

I just hope somebody releases a decent Finder replacement or I'll be spending a lot of time at the command line.

You have issues buddy. The new Finder is so much easier to navigate. If you dont like it so much get a PC.

midwinter · Oct 25, 2003, 10:32 PM

Do the following. No more, no less:

1) select the finder from the desktop. Click the "Go" menu, then "Computer"

2) When the finder window pops up. grab the little re-size bead on the sidebar and move it all the way to the left. This will make the column disappear.

3) Close that finder window by clicking the red gumdrop button. This will save the finder window preferences, and any new finder windows you open will not have the sidebar.

Cheers
scott

Edit: In addition, you'll be back to regular old Jaguar column-view behavior

dharknes · Oct 25, 2003, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by drainyoo:
You have issues buddy. The new Finder is so much easier to navigate. If you dont like it so much get a PC.

I just might if x86 didn't suck, XP didn't suck, and Linux had a decent GUI. Linux has no file managers with any type of column view which is the GREATEST thing ever.

dharknes · Oct 25, 2003, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by midwinter:
Do the following. No more, no less:

1) select the finder from the desktop. Click the "Go" menu, then "Computer"

2) When the finder window pops up. grab the little re-size bead on the sidebar and move it all the way to the left. This will make the column disappear.

3) Close that finder window by clicking the red gumdrop button. This will save the finder window preferences, and any new finder windows you open will not have the sidebar.

Cheers
scott

Which does make the sidebar go away but then I can't directly access Applications or anything else useful. I'm certainly not complaining about what's on the sidebar. I'm just want to put those icon back at the top of the window.

drainyoo · Oct 25, 2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by dharknes:
I just might if x86 didn't suck, XP didn't suck, and Linux had a decent GUI. Linux has no file managers with any type of column view which is the GREATEST thing ever.

Dude you just need to adapt. Give it time. Its much better this way.

midwinter · Oct 25, 2003, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by dharknes:
Which does make the sidebar go away but then I can't directly access Applications or anything else useful. I'm certainly not complaining about what's on the sidebar. I'm just want to put those icon back at the top of the window.

Fair point. Hadn't thought about that, since I tend to use pretzel+shift+A to get to Applications, pretzel+shift+H to get to Home, and pretzel+shift+C to get to my root drive. I've gotten so quick with them that I don't even think sometimes about using the mouse to get to those directories.

I suggest you send some feedback to Apple. It'd be nice it you had an option for where you want these links to appear, if at all.

Cheers
Scott

benb · Oct 25, 2003, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by dharknes:
Which does make the sidebar go away but then I can't directly access Applications or anything else useful. I'm certainly not complaining about what's on the sidebar. I'm just want to put those icon back at the top of the window.

Then do it. Nothing is stopping you.

Man, do I hate it when people complian without trying stuff first. You could of spared us all your whining if you just attempted to make the Finder in Panther just like Jaguar.

axlepin · Oct 25, 2003, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by dharknes:
I REALLY liked having all my drives and network connections as the base column. For example if I click Applications then I can't use the keyboard to backup and navigate around my computer.

It seems to me that the new finder *does* offer what you want: all that stuff you have at the left stays put, instead of scooting to the left (and out of view!) as it does in Jag when you drill deeper into column view..you can add folders to the toolbar, and you CAN navigate with the keyboard, at least to a certain extent (back, forward, etc).

I think that this new Finder scheme makes short work of getting at your stuff fast, so that you can move on to the work...I personally don't spend time toodling around the Finder unless I'm doing housekeeping, but I'm sure that there are as many different workstyles as there are Mac users.

axle

snerdini · Oct 25, 2003, 10:45 PM

You CAN add your shortcuts back to the top of the window - drag the folder/volume/file up there. Sheesh.

snerdini · Oct 25, 2003, 10:47 PM

Oh yeah, and the sidebar rocks, once you get used to it.

dharknes · Oct 25, 2003, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by drainyoo:
Dude you just need to adapt. Give it time. Its much better this way.

Why is this better? I'm curious. Does it save on mouse movement? Does it make keyboard navigation easier? Why is having the sidebar better then self or button bar at the top of the window.

If I'm adapting then I think I should benefit in some fashion. If adapting results in less productivity and/or increased frustration then it wasn't a very good idea.

psu03bob · Oct 25, 2003, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by dharknes:
Which does make the sidebar go away but then I can't directly access Applications or anything else useful. I'm certainly not complaining about what's on the sidebar. I'm just want to put those icon back at the top of the window.

You can drag those items into the toolbar just like you could in previous versions. Everything can be put in the toolbar except "computer", because you have to drag the actual item not the shortcut from the sidebar.

Cory Bauer · Oct 25, 2003, 11:05 PM

Personally I find the new finder to be highly superior to the one it replaced, and I think most others feel the same. I can't exactly explain why - it just seems I can get to what I need much faster, and it seems less space-consuming on my 1024x768 flat-panel iMac monitor. There's rarely a need to see the Library, System, and Users folder, and in Jaguar you saw them all the time due to the way Column view always showed you the entire directory structure.

Alternatively, note that you can press cmd-up arrow to show the enclosing folder of the one you have selected. Get used to this, and you should have no problem navigating the new finder like you did in Jaguar.

Toyin · Oct 25, 2003, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by dharknes:
Why is this better? I'm curious. Does it save on mouse movement? Does it make keyboard navigation easier? Why is having the sidebar better then self or button bar at the top of the window.

If I'm adapting then I think I should benefit in some fashion. If adapting results in less productivity and/or increased frustration then it wasn't a very good idea.

Personally, I hated the inconsistency of toolbar shortcuts that I use frequently. For example when I press my home folder, depending where I am in the current hierarchy, my home folder could be anywhere form the left most column, to the 2nd to last column. With Panther, my home folder is always the left most column.

Also saying the new finder sucks for this reason is ridiculous especially since you can mimic the Jaguar finder to a tee. The finder is so much more than column view.

d4nth3m4n · Oct 25, 2003, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by dharknes:

The stupid side bar thing makes it VERY hard to navigate and use column mode.

you know that you can change the width of the sidebar, even to the point that its not there right??

Dan.

dharknes · Oct 25, 2003, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by Toyin:
Personally, I hated the inconsistency of toolbar shortcuts that I use frequently. For example when I press my home folder, depending where I am in the current hierarchy, my home folder could be anywhere form the left most column, to the 2nd to last column. With Panther, my home folder is always the left most column.

Also saying the new finder sucks for this reason is ridiculous especially since you can mimic the Jaguar finder to a tee. The finder is so much more than column view.

Then I won't share the fact that I think icon and list view should be completely removed. I have never been able to make either of those views work for me. Column view is so much easier to use. Everything stays organized. It's very simple to navigate use just the keyboard.

So in my little world the Finder is nothing more then column view.

dharknes · Oct 25, 2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by d4nth3m4n:
you know that you can change the width of the sidebar, even to the point that its not there right??

Dan.

Ya I know. I just find it annoying that I have to spend the better part of an hour attempting to reconfigure something that was perfectly functional.

midwinter · Oct 25, 2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by psu03bob:
You can drag those items into the toolbar just like you could in previous versions. Everything can be put in the toolbar except "computer", because you have to drag the actual item not the shortcut from the sidebar.

That doesn't seem to work for me. I try to drag move my Applications folder to it and it will not take.

It will not take.

Cheers
Scott

JustinD · Oct 26, 2003, 12:06 AM

From a GUI geek, in my experience so far, the new Finder...

- the windows are too BIG. Huge friggin' metal chunk at the top housing the window name and the toolbar, huge metal border at the bottom with status, chunky metal borders on the sides. If ALL that was REDUCED, it would be fabulous, because I love the new side and tool bars!

- Scrolling one-by-one through a folder of images takes about 4x as long (Dual G5 with CLEAN install!) as on Jag. The previews of the images (column view of course) take about 3x longer to come up - and these are 30k JPEGs!! THIS is a HUGE problem which I hope will be solved in the first update - this IS supposed to be the platform for graphics professional, and it takes LONGER to find my graphics under Panther!

JustinD · Oct 26, 2003, 12:10 AM

Whoa... I just tried dragging something to the toolbar. Didn't work. Held down Apple (as I find that makes it always work) and sure enough, there it was in the toolbar.

Then I removed it.

Okay. Now I can NO LONGER add anything to the toolbar!

Ugh. Buggy. Add this lil bug to the bug where it wont reconnect to my AirPort upon waking it up and my slow-picture-scrolling issue. BOOOO.

EDIT:

Hmmm. Okay. Here;s the problem. Guess I shoulda fooled around more. Drag something to the toolbar, then HOLD it over the toolbar. in about 1-3 seconds, the cursor will pop up a "+" and you can add it.

That's dumb.... =(

diamondsw · Oct 26, 2003, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by dharknes:
Well it appears that my worst fears are true. The new Finder under Panther sucks almost as bad as the Finder under OS9. The only saving grace is it still has column view.

The stupid side bar thing makes it VERY hard to navigate and use column mode.

I don't like that if I select something off the side bar then that becomes the base column on the left. I REALLY liked having all my drives and network connections as the base column. For example if I click Applications then I can't use the keyboard to backup and navigate around my computer.

I just hope somebody releases a decent Finder replacement or I'll be spending a lot of time at the command line.

Okay - shrink the places bar to be invisible. Voila - it's exactly as it was before. However, if you *want* to "root" your column view to something (such as your home folder, applications folder, etc) you can.

I don't see why this would annoy anyone - you can have it exactly as it was before, other can benefit from the new features if they like it. Why do people complain in situations like this?!?

diamondsw · Oct 26, 2003, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by drainyoo:
You have issues buddy. The new Finder is so much easier to navigate. If you dont like it so much get a PC.

As usual, a useless MacNN knee-jerk response. What does that accomplish? Nothing, except to piss people off. Be constructive.

diamondsw · Oct 26, 2003, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by dharknes:
Which does make the sidebar go away but then I can't directly access Applications or anything else useful. I'm certainly not complaining about what's on the sidebar. I'm just want to put those icon back at the top of the window.

As far as I know, you still can drag any icon you want to the toolbar. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

riverfreak · Oct 26, 2003, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by dharknes:

I just hope somebody releases a decent Finder replacement or I'll be spending a lot of time at the command line.

If that's your attitude, then just use the command line all the time. What's holdin' you back, ya sissy? The CLI is a thousand-fold faster anyways.

Personally, I like the new finder. But I hear your pain about how items in the toolbar become the base of the navigable tree. It would be nice to have an option (say option-arrow) to move up beyond the base of the tree.

Jim_MDP · Oct 26, 2003, 12:34 AM

Yes Diamond, it's the same as in Jag, in fact...

Justin, if there wasn't a short delay... it would think you were trying to put a folder there every time you dragged one past it to move it to another window.

And it takes just a shade over 1 sec on my G3 400 Pismo, I hope it's not CPU dependent or G5s might have a problem.

Jim_MDP · Oct 26, 2003, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by riverfreak:
It would be nice to have an option (say option-arrow) to move up beyond the base of the tree.

One should read the thread before replying to the thread...

Cmd-up arrow.

bwahahax · Oct 26, 2003, 01:08 AM

Two words:

Path Finder
http://www.cocoatech.com/pathfinder3/index.php

midwinter · Oct 26, 2003, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by JustinD:
Whoa... I just tried dragging something to the toolbar. Didn't work. Held down Apple (as I find that makes it always work) and sure enough, there it was in the toolbar.

Then I removed it.

Okay. Now I can NO LONGER add anything to the toolbar!

Ugh. Buggy. Add this lil bug to the bug where it wont reconnect to my AirPort upon waking it up and my slow-picture-scrolling issue. BOOOO.

EDIT:

Hmmm. Okay. Here;s the problem. Guess I shoulda fooled around more. Drag something to the toolbar, then HOLD it over the toolbar. in about 1-3 seconds, the cursor will pop up a "+" and you can add it.

That's dumb.... =(

Sweet. Thanks for pointing that out!

Cory Bauer · Oct 26, 2003, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by riverfreak:
It would be nice to have an option (say option-arrow) to move up beyond the base of the tree.

Am I mute and I just don't know it? As Jim_MDP kindly pointed out, I already mentioned that cmd-up arrow will indeed show you the enclosing folder. It's right there at the top of the Go menu. This little key command should solve everyone's complaints in this thread, really. It's really quite perfect. Most of the time, you never need to see the enclosing folder and thus the left column is always where you'll start. If an instance comes along which you actually need to see the hierarchy, cmd-up gives you that. Voila!

Much more elegant.

Talleyman · Oct 26, 2003, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by dharknes:
Well it appears that my worst fears are true. The new Finder under Panther sucks almost as bad as the Finder under OS9. The only saving grace is it still has column view.

Wow...a Troll on the Finder...and you guys fell for it.

JT

icruise · Oct 26, 2003, 09:55 AM

You can also add a button to the toolbar to show the path, and that will allow you to go all the way back to "Computer" from any location.

dharknes · Oct 26, 2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Okay - shrink the places bar to be invisible. Voila - it's exactly as it was before. However, if you *want* to "root" your column view to something (such as your home folder, applications folder, etc) you can.

I don't see why this would annoy anyone - you can have it exactly as it was before, other can benefit from the new features if they like it. Why do people complain in situations like this?!?

That's just it I don't want it rooted in my Home directory I want it rooted at the Computer level. My view of the Computer shouldn't change based on what icon I've clicked.

Why did I complain, because I don't like it. Why did everyone complain about the Dock, one of the great GUI elements of OSX? Why did people complain when Apple dropped the Apple Menu, one of the worst parts of OS9?

dharknes · Oct 26, 2003, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Talleyman:
Wow...a Troll on the Finder...and you guys fell for it.

JT

Funny I always thought a troll was someone running a different system just looking for a fight, ei someone running Windows complaining about MacOS.

I'm certainly not that, I have three mac all running some version of OSX, a Ti PowerBook which I love, my wife's iBook, and a purple iMac. And as soon as I get the money I will be getting a new 15 inch PowerBook. And I feel MacOS is the greatest thing on the planet. You can't pay me to take an Intel piece of junk, trust me people why tried.

Now with all that said. Am I a "classic" mac user, have I used Macs since 1984? No. Matter of fact I only used OS9 for a couple months before I installed OSX PB. I'm a Unix admin turned Mac. So I spend a lot of time in the file system which makes the finder one of my killer apps.

So for my money the NeXT file manager was much nicer and more usable then the current Finder.

If this makes me a Troll then Troll I am.

jokell82 · Oct 26, 2003, 10:26 AM

I hated the new finder at first as well. However, once I discovered that it was more customizable than I thought, I've learned to like it. The only downside I see to it now is that it's metal. I wish Apple would get off its metal kick and go back to making aqua apps... Anyway, here's what my finder windows look like:

keston · Oct 26, 2003, 10:30 AM

Unsanity's De-Metalifizer takes care of the brushed metal quite nicely, and its free.

Originally posted by jokell82:
I hated the new finder at first as well. However, once I discovered that it was more customizable than I thought, I've learned to like it. The only downside I see to it now is that it's metal. I wish Apple would get off its metal kick and go back to making aqua apps... Anyway, here's what my finder windows look like:

jokell82 · Oct 26, 2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by keston:
Unsanity's De-Metalifizer takes care of the brushed metal quite nicely, and its free.

I'm not a big fan of running haxies, though. Even though I registered a few of them back in the 10.1 days, they seem to cause way too many problems when you upgrade that I'm just not sure they're worth the hassle...

That and there's the fact that the finder looks like ass in aqua now, due to the safari-style buttons...

tomtom · Oct 26, 2003, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by jokell82:
[BI wish Apple would get off its metal kick and go back to making aqua apps... [/B]

I'll second this but it's not the real reason I'm replying. Please tell me where to get the Strongbad icon. I HAVE to have it! Thanks.

dfbennett · Oct 26, 2003, 11:11 AM

Is it possible to put the status bar where it belongs at the top of the window below the icons? I really dislike the idea of having it at the bottom. I dunno the new finder is interesting but it's starting to look and act way too much like a web browser(which is what I absolutely hated when I first saw Windows 98). Believe it or not, whether that status bar can be moved may be a deciding factor whether I decide to shell out the money for Panther.

MusicalTone · Oct 26, 2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by dharknes:
That's just it I don't want it rooted in my Home directory I want it rooted at the Computer level. My view of the Computer shouldn't change based on what icon I've clicked.

Look in Finder prefs: New Finder Window Opens>Computer should do the trick

jokell82 · Oct 26, 2003, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by tomtom:
I'll second this but it's not the real reason I'm replying. Please tell me where to get the Strongbad icon. I HAVE to have it! Thanks.

That icon is from a set that I can no longer find. I've searched and searched but can't seem to locate it anywhere... However, there's one that is very similar in this set: http://www.xicons.com/details/817.html

If I ever find the old set I'll let you know.

jokell82 · Oct 26, 2003, 11:33 AM

Heh, of course as soon as I post that I find the icons. They're at the bottom of this interview of the Brothers Chapman at ResExcellence: http://www.resexcellence.com/hack_ht...01-30-03.shtml

Enjoy.

Edit - Nevermind, that's not the set either... hehe

goose · Oct 26, 2003, 11:40 AM

I can see dharknes' complaint about the column view. When you click on one of the icons in the side bar when in column view, it becomes your top level directory on the far left side and you don't have the scroll at the bottom to navigate up to a higher level directory.

In Jag, if you went to your home directory in column view, you could at least use the scroll bar at the bottom to browse up to a higher level directory such as Users and Computer.

This is a valid complaint about the Finder, but I don't think it's enough to say that the Finder sucks.

DaGuy · Oct 26, 2003, 11:54 AM

The new finder rocks, it's much better than any the older ones. The complaints that I have read are pretty laughable to say the least.

Alas, that's the mac world for you... I guess it's all good.

milenko11 · Oct 26, 2003, 12:12 PM

Homestar Icons

Cory Bauer · 01:41 PM

Originally posted by jokell82:

jokell82, what icon set is this and where can I get it? It's fantastic! Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind. I just found them. They come with Candybar. Duh