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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > New MacBook (Pros) are here!

New MacBook (Pros) are here! (Page 3)
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Chuckit
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Oct 14, 2008, 05:36 PM
 
There's Capertalsimsim?
Chuck
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Powerbook
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Oct 14, 2008, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
There's Capertalsimsim?
So they say, no? In Europe there is Commernism (sp?). In America it's Capertalsimsim (sp?), which is much better, because the customer has the power.
Now if you excuse me, I'm pi$$ed.
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fisherKing
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Oct 14, 2008, 05:54 PM
 
am so disappointed with apple; gave up waiting on a 12" powerbook replacement. can't go for a macbook: you can order one with logic (which i depend on), but can't use apple's recommended interface (the apogee duet); it's a firewire device.

no matte screen option. no 7200rpm drive option. and, of course, no way to use an external 7200rpm firewire drive (which i use with logic).

so...if i want a new apple laptop, i HAVE to go for the 15".

apple has stopped giving us CHOICES.
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
analogika
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Oct 14, 2008, 05:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
am so disappointed with apple; gave up waiting on a 12" powerbook replacement. can't go for a macbook: you can order one with logic (which i depend on), but can't use apple's recommended interface (the apogee duet); it's a firewire device.

no matte screen option. no 7200rpm drive option.

so...if i want a new apple laptop, i HAVE to go for the 15".

apple has stopped giving us CHOICES.
I can see the logic, though - probably over 90% of MacBook customers don't need Firewire.

You and I NEED Firewire, so we must have a laptop that supports this. We've been leeching off their consumer line, even though we clearly aren't target market. Apple has been losing $700 they know they could've been making, all because they've continued to offer a feature the vast majority of their customers will never need.

I'll have to spring for a Pro. Later than planned.
     
fisherKing
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Oct 14, 2008, 06:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
I can see the logic, though - probably over 90% of MacBook customers don't need Firewire.

You and I NEED Firewire, so we must have a laptop that supports this. We've been leeching off their consumer line, even though we clearly aren't target market. Apple has been losing $700 they know they could've been making, all because they've continued to offer a feature the vast majority of their customers will never need.

I'll have to spring for a Pro. Later than planned.
i'm just annoyed at having no options; NO smaller laptop, NO matte screen. not sure i like being told what i need, i miss the powerbook days (12", 15"17"). what to do? will either go for a mbp, or...abandon apple entirely (well, that won't happen). still, am hating apple today...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
MartiNZ
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Oct 14, 2008, 06:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
am so disappointed with apple; gave up waiting on a 12" powerbook replacement. can't go for a macbook: you can order one with logic (which i depend on), but can't use apple's recommended interface (the apogee duet); it's a firewire device.

no matte screen option. no 7200rpm drive option. and, of course, no way to use an external 7200rpm firewire drive (which i use with logic).

so...if i want a new apple laptop, i HAVE to go for the 15".

apple has stopped giving us CHOICES.
Yeah it's a big usage/audience shift. To me, the new aluminium MacBook seems like the perfect 12" PowerBook replacement, with believable graphics, no skimping on technologies/features (LED-backlighting, backlit keyboard, glass trackpad, etc.), and even better, no gimping the RAM - 4GBable where the 12" PB had 256MB soldered on.

I bought an external hard drive with firewire for my MBP, so that I could actually try out firewire! I've used it maybe once on another machine for target disc mode, but otherwise it has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Conveniently, said ext. HD has a USB connection as well, so I'm sorted, and very much considering switching Feb '08 MBP to Oct '08 MB 2GHz - I also like the idea of not having a backlit keyboard, but that's mainly due to the irritating new layout of the laptop F-keys.
     
fisherKing
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Oct 14, 2008, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by MartiNZ View Post
Yeah it's a big usage/audience shift. To me, the new aluminium MacBook seems like the perfect 12" PowerBook replacement, with believable graphics, no skimping on technologies/features (LED-backlighting, backlit keyboard, glass trackpad, etc.), and even better, no gimping the RAM - 4GBable where the 12" PB had 256MB soldered on.

I bought an external hard drive with firewire for my MBP, so that I could actually try out firewire! I've used it maybe once on another machine for target disc mode, but otherwise it has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Conveniently, said ext. HD has a USB connection as well, so I'm sorted, and very much considering switching Feb '08 MBP to Oct '08 MB 2GHz - I also like the idea of not having a backlit keyboard, but that's mainly due to the irritating new layout of the laptop F-keys.
i WISH it were a replacement for my last-gen 12"...but no FW means no apogee interface. no 7200rpm drive for audio. and i HATE glossy screens.

i sold my 12" because reason 4 (my other audio app) did not run well on it; anyway...whatever, apple.
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
tooki
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Oct 14, 2008, 06:17 PM
 
Target Disk Mode is far and away the thing I will miss on any Mac without FIreWire. TDM is such a brilliant, magnificent little nugget that every Mac tech cherishes. But at least with easy to remove hard disks on the new models, using those USB disk adapters is easy enough I guess!
     
bballe336
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Oct 14, 2008, 06:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki View Post
Target Disk Mode is far and away the thing I will miss on any Mac without FIreWire. TDM is such a brilliant, magnificent little nugget that every Mac tech cherishes. But at least with easy to remove hard disks on the new models, using those USB disk adapters is easy enough I guess!
Those USB disk adapters are horribly slow, and so is USB on macs in general. It would be nice if apple offered some way to target disk mode over USB though (or ethernet, now that would be pretty handy).
     
blackstar
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Oct 14, 2008, 06:29 PM
 
I will buy a new Macbook second generation during the summer. Unfortunately I still have a Firewire iPod. Maybe its dead by then.
New Macbooks are finally are worthy successor to my old and trusted Powerbook 12". I like that it includes a backlit keyboard too. If SSD's become affordable soon this will be a true Road Warrior.
     
CharlesS
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Oct 14, 2008, 06:33 PM
 
Yeah, Target Mode was a great thing to have. Even if a user really didn't ever use FireWire him/herself, as some have been claiming, it would still get used when those users brought their laptop to me after it quit booting.

It was also very nice for moving large files between two machines... much faster than Ethernet or especially Wi-Fi.

Ultimately, though, complaining here doesn't do that much. Let's all submit feedback to Apple and let them know.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

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starman
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:14 PM
 
No Firewire 400? Fail. I won't be able to use half my FW devices.

EDIT: And I don't like glossy screens, despite what Schill says.

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Person Man
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
No Firewire 400? Fail. I won't be able to use half my FW devices.
Firewire 400 Adapter
     
starman
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:19 PM
 
$20 for ANOTHER thing I have to carry around?

No.

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CharlesS
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:32 PM
 
How about a cable for $5 then? I'm assuming you already needed to carry around a FireWire cable anyway. Just replace that with this one.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

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Cletus989
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:38 PM
 
glossy screens suck ass
     
Eug
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
am so disappointed with apple; gave up waiting on a 12" powerbook replacement. can't go for a macbook: you can order one with logic (which i depend on), but can't use apple's recommended interface (the apogee duet); it's a firewire device.
That's frickin' hilarious in a very annoying frustrating way.

Anyways, I was just about to order an CAD$899 refurb MacBook ($949 with 2 GB 3rd party RAM), but they ran out. They were there 2 hours ago. Should have pulled the trigger when I had the chance. I guess I can wait for a while until it shows up again.

The 2.4 GHz with SuperDrive is also tempting, but it's $200 more, and I don't really need the extra 0.3 GHz. SuperDrive would be a bonus, but not absolutely necessary either, except for resale value.
     
fisherKing
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
That's frickin' hilarious in a very annoying frustrating way.

Anyways, I was just about to order an CAD$899 refurb MacBook but they ran out. They were there 2 hours ago. Should have pulled the trigger when I had the chance. I guess I can wait for a while until it shows up again.

The 2.4 GHz with SuperDrive is also tempting, but it's $200 more, and I don't really need the extra 0.3 GHz. SuperDrive would be a bonus, but not absolutely necessary either, except for resale value.
and, hey, i can do audio on the new mb, but only with a 5400rpm drive; no option for an internal 7200rpm drive, and again, no firewire for an external. at this point, the only reason i support apple is os x...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
lpkmckenna
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Personally, I think the new MacBook*s look pretty good aside from the glossy screens — all my Firewire equipment is dual-interface — but the best part about the new notebooks is that the old ones are now dirt cheap. Currently planning to order a $1500 MBP with Firewire, a matte screen and 512 MB VRAM tonight.
Wow, Apple has discovered the perfect method to clear out old inventory: remove features from new products!
     
Eug
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:53 PM
 
fisherKing, The good news is that it's very easy to swap out the drive on MacBooks, and 7200 rpm laptop drives are cheap.

I put a 7200 rpm drive in my old MacBook, when its drive died. I promptly sold it though, because it was 2 years old and had no warranty.

Even though my current G4 iBook is dead slow, I've grown to love its form factor. I like it's narrower footprint quite a bit.
     
abbaZaba
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:55 PM
 
question about the trackpad:

when you press it, does the whole thing push down, like a normal trackpad button or is it stationary and just senses the pressure from the touch? if it's the latter then that's somewhat of a dealbreaker for me. I absolutely hate the windows laptops that have the "tap-to-emulate-buttonpress" feature. I'm always accidently tapping it and causing mouseclicks
     
Snow-i
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Oct 14, 2008, 08:02 PM
 
it actually clicks.
     
Stogieman
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Oct 14, 2008, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post

Ultimately, though, complaining here doesn't do that much. Let's all submit feedback to Apple and let them know.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html
Feeback has been sent. Don't know how much good it will do though.

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fisherKing
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Oct 14, 2008, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
fisherKing, The good news is that it's very easy to swap out the drive on MacBooks, and 7200 rpm laptop drives are cheap.

I put a 7200 rpm drive in my old MacBook, when its drive died. I promptly sold it though, because it was 2 years old and had no warranty.

Even though my current G4 iBook is dead slow, I've grown to love its form factor. I like it's narrower footprint quite a bit.
so i have to add cost & labor to a brand-new laptop because apple isn't offering the option? anyway, i still need firewire, and STILL hate the glossy screens...oh well, this is how it is, will deal with it..
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Snow-i
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Oct 14, 2008, 08:18 PM
 
Anyone have any info on the screens in the new macbooks and MBPs?

Are they 6, 8, something else bit? Advantages and disadvantages to each? I'm torn between an upper end MB and a low end MBP. The screen is one consideration. Anyone have any advice/feedback?

I could use the graphics...but they aren't worth justifying the upgrade. Firewire would be nice...but again solely not worth the upgrade. Any other considerations?
     
Hodog16
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Oct 14, 2008, 08:54 PM
 
Just bought a MBP 2.8. Had been planning this purchase, so I bought a bunch of Apple gift cards off ebay with live.com's 30% back. How ironic thanks to Microsoft I can buy a new Apple .

My last laptop was a Dell from 2001 and my last computer purchase was a revB iMac G5. Figured it was time to upgrade.

Can't wait for it to arrive.
     
DKeithA
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Oct 14, 2008, 09:12 PM
 
I'm really excited about my new baby too. This (2.53GHz, 320GB @ 7200 rpm) version) is EXACTLY the laptop I've been holding out to buy. In my opinion, this is Apple's best portable to date.
     
Maflynn
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Oct 14, 2008, 09:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Are they 6, 8, something else bit? Advantages and disadvantages to each? I'm torn between an upper end MB and a low end MBP. The screen is one consideration. Anyone have any advice/feedback?
Agreed,If I were a bettin man, I'd say they were were only 6 bit and use dithering for the "millions" of colors
~Mike
     
imitchellg5
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Oct 14, 2008, 09:32 PM
 
I'm going to go check them out tomorrow at the Apple Store. I think I'll wait until the next revision though.
     
Eug
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Oct 14, 2008, 09:33 PM
 
Ordered this for CAD$899.00 (US$770):

Refurbished MacBook 2.1GHz Intel Core 2 Duo - White
Part Number: FB402LL/A
120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
Accessory Kit
2.1GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
1GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512MB
Keyboard (English) / User's Guide

Ships: 1 - 3 business days
Delivers: 17 Oct - 24 Oct

Please note that your order subtotal does not include applicable sales tax or rebates. Sales tax, if applicable, will be added when your order is processed.
     
Darkfire26
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Oct 14, 2008, 09:40 PM
 
Haha.
Hail Beta!
Just not for my home...
17 better come in time, it looks very out of place.
MacBook Air shoulda gotten the aesthetic update.
MB needs FW, but oh well, USB 3.0 will kick it's ass.
I'm liking the 1066Mhz DDR3 though.
     
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Oct 14, 2008, 10:01 PM
 
     
fisherKing
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Oct 14, 2008, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
really, what's your point? that we can't be disappointed in the things the new macs lack? so we have to get a windows machine?
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
zaghahzag
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Oct 14, 2008, 10:14 PM
 
you know, i get that apple doesn't care about keeping their hardware backward compatible with obsolete things like SCSI, floppy drives, etc. But firewire is a great technology. Tons of people have money invested in it with products that are expensive or impossible to replace.

WTF. Put it back or add an expansion card. Apple just decided that macbooks are for people who want to use the internet and write papers. If you want to do anything else, spend 1000k$ more.

Seriously. WTF. This single omission has pissed me off more than any single thing for awhile.

Here is the email I wrote apple:
I have a long history with Apple and Macs. I worked for xxx on the xxx series of games, which helped to keep countless people using macs at a time when they truly sucked.

You guys need to go and find the asshat who took firewire out of the macbooks and slap him across the head multiple times. Then you need to revise your design and add firewire back in as promptly as possible. I know that 90% of people don't use it regularly, but when the other 10% of us use it TO FIX THEIR [email protected] COMPUTERS, it's really useful.

USB2 blows and you know it, anyone who uses USB2 for backing up their stuff is a moron.

Don't be stupid, and please stop pissing off your customers. What about a little choice here?
     
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Oct 14, 2008, 10:17 PM
 
I wasn't that impressed. I like having a real trackpad button - I don't want to have to rely on touch sensitivity. I am, however, amused that they're making a big deal about "now the whole trackpad is the button" - it's been that way since tap-to-click; what's new besides aural feedback when tapping?

No matte on the MBP = major boo. The one sucky thing about my M1330 is the glossy screen. I do like that it covers the LCD and its bezel; that should make it easier to clean the edge area. Really not a fan of the chiclet keyboard; the aluminum PB/MBP keyboard is one of the best laptop boards I've ever used. Dual video cards is a good idea taken from Sony (I think Vaios were the first to offer this option).

We'll see if DisplayPort takes off in mainstream hardware. I suspect it will end up like FireWire, though....

...which, IMO, was inevitable. Apple removing FW support from the iPod line was the second to last nail in the coffin, if you ask me. USB 2.0 is the industry standard for high speed transfers for anything except digital video. Of course, the end of FW also spells the end of Target Disk Mode, which has saved me numerous times.
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Oct 14, 2008, 10:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Super Mario yawns and puts a Dell Precision M6400 on order with:

Quad-core 2.53Ghz
8GB RAM
Dual 500GB hard drives
Nvidia Quadro 3700M with 1GB video memory
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eSATA port for my external Photoshop scratch disk
Adobe Photoshop CS4 64bit
First off, do this. humor your self with a search online for DDR3 SODIMMs bigger then 2 gb.
lol
     
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Oct 14, 2008, 11:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Natz View Post
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the new Macbooks are doing away with FireWire, how are people going to migrate their settings and programs to and from these new laptops?
Migration assistant supports ethernet, no?
That said, it seems it would only work if the machine is fully bootable...

edit: The macbook manual says to do the migration via ethernet or wireless.
( Last edited by AKcrab; Oct 14, 2008 at 11:17 PM. )
     
Chuckit
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Oct 14, 2008, 11:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I wasn't that impressed. I like having a real trackpad button - I don't want to have to rely on touch sensitivity. I am, however, amused that they're making a big deal about "now the whole trackpad is the button" - it's been that way since tap-to-click; what's new besides aural feedback when tapping?
Tactile feedback and button-like behavior (e.g., you can click and hold). I think I'd much prefer a multitouch surface to the creakiness Powerbook/MBP buttons can develop over time.
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milhous
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Oct 15, 2008, 12:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by tooki View Post
Target Disk Mode is far and away the thing I will miss on any Mac without FIreWire. TDM is such a brilliant, magnificent little nugget that every Mac tech cherishes. But at least with easy to remove hard disks on the new models, using those USB disk adapters is easy enough I guess!
Quite right about that. Another downer is that you can't get a shell prompt in EFI like we did with OpenFirmware to clear our PRAMs the RIGHT way!
F = ma
     
Eug
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Oct 15, 2008, 12:19 AM
 
Interesting. It's a LOT cheaper to get 4 GB RAM for the older MacBook. It's less than $60 for 2 x 2 GB of DDR2 memory. Apple charges $150 for the upgrade to 4 GB of DDR3, which is required in the new aluminum MacBook.

Originally Posted by tooki
Target Disk Mode is far and away the thing I will miss on any Mac without FIreWire. TDM is such a brilliant, magnificent little nugget that every Mac tech cherishes. But at least with easy to remove hard disks on the new models, using those USB disk adapters is easy enough I guess!
But also think of the reverse. I've needed target disk mode on my iMac too, and used my MacBook to access its drive. This also would not be possible with the new MacBook. That's my bigger concern, since my iMac's drive is not user accessible.
     
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Oct 15, 2008, 12:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
I was wondering how long it would take for some idiot to post this.

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sogbrightlight
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Oct 15, 2008, 12:36 AM
 
I think I'll just wait for Snow Leopard before I hit another computer upgrade.
Bla Bla Bla
     
starman
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Oct 15, 2008, 01:04 AM
 
The more I think about it, the more disappointed I get. I sold my 17" MPB a month ago in anticipation of new 15". I don't like carrying around a 17" laptop anymore. I have my old 15" MPB Core Duo and it works well, but on the road this weekend I found how limited it is compared to a Core 2 Duo when doing HD video editing.

So yeah, no FW400 and a glossy screen which annoyed the piss out of me with my last Dell just tells me that I'm going to hang onto this older MBP until Apple gets their head out of their ass and at LEAST offers a matte screen.

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Oct 15, 2008, 01:10 AM
 
I hate the glossy screen too. Imagine, at every turn, reflections cast on your screen. What the hell are they thinking?

Looking at the screen design, I can see that there will be no easy fix for matte screens: it is simply a sheet of glass that covers the whole display. A matte finish would cause an interruption in design, and complicate things.

I watched the keynote, and I could see how annoying the reflection on the screen is. Hard to edit text in a document when all you see is the reflection of the lamp beside you...
     
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Oct 15, 2008, 01:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
The more I think about it, the more disappointed I get. I sold my 17" MPB a month ago in anticipation of new 15". I don't like carrying around a 17" laptop anymore. I have my old 15" MPB Core Duo and it works well, but on the road this weekend I found how limited it is compared to a Core 2 Duo when doing HD video editing.

So yeah, no FW400 and a glossy screen which annoyed the piss out of me with my last Dell just tells me that I'm going to hang onto this older MBP until Apple gets their head out of their ass and at LEAST offers a matte screen.
I don't think that's going to happen. The new products (and comments from Steve at the Q&A) point to Apple going glass, and not looking back. Hey, maybe they can sell us a matte screen adapter for $100, too!
     
CharlesS
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Oct 15, 2008, 01:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
So yeah, no FW400 and a glossy screen which annoyed the piss out of me with my last Dell just tells me that I'm going to hang onto this older MBP until Apple gets their head out of their ass and at LEAST offers a matte screen.
The glossy screen is unfortunate, but no FW400 is a non-issue when you have FW800. You can easily connect all your FW400 peripherals to it with a $5 cable.

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Kodachrome_Project
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Oct 15, 2008, 01:28 AM
 
I actually don't care for the matte screens, they catch more glare overall from more directions. I like the glossy a lot. And I do professional photography for a living...
     
Rob van dam
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Oct 15, 2008, 01:31 AM
 
Looking at the store in Australia which got price hiked substantially how come when you configure the entry level macbook the 128gb ssd drive is A$ 1,120.00 but when you go up the next macbook model and then the macbook pro 15" to the 17" its scales down from A$ 960.00, A$ 880.00, A$ 800.00.

Why not just keep a standard price across the line for the ssd upgrade?
( Last edited by Rob van dam; Oct 15, 2008 at 01:52 AM. )
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Oct 15, 2008, 01:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
How about a cable for $5 then? I'm assuming you already needed to carry around a FireWire cable anyway. Just replace that with this one.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
Heh. I have heaps of these lying around. All triple interface LaCie drives come with them. FW800 to 400 is no issue whatsoever (though I've always disliked the loose feel of a FW800 connector), having 8 external FW drives between me, my work and my girlfriend is when it comes to buying a MacBook

But like analogika, I can understand the reasoning behind it. Most people just don't need it.

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CharlesS
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Oct 15, 2008, 01:48 AM
 
By "it", are we referring to FireWire in general (i.e., about its removal on the consumer MacBooks)? If so, I would contend that most people think they don't need it. However, as soon as something goes wrong and they need to use target mode, it quickly turns out that they really did need it after all.

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