[ghporter]

I don't see how belittling someone for not being aware of a late night cartoon is "fun." Maybe I'm too old-but I do have some interests that I think are fun that I acknowledge other people might not like. I just don't act like a jerk and use their lack of interest to make fun of them. We can poke at people, but not if it's not clear that it's meant in fun-and I don't see Dakar's poke as being in fun. Of course the smart thing to do is to say "gee, I goofed up that joke-sorry." That lets people know what you meant and gives the other person a chance to say something positive. Of course that depends on sincerity...

What would it mean to others to have "fun" here? I have liked lots of threads here, getting a lot of enjoyment out of them. But when people start bickering and calling each other names, it's not fun for me anymore.

And Dakar, aside from my job requiring me to be up very early, I have enjoyed a lot of Adult Swim. I like the way they combine old stuff with new stuff-like bringing back Astro Boy, adding in Big O, and seasoning it with the Brak show or Space Ghost. I'm just not up on Venture Brothers stuff because it was a bit over the top for me-like Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I don't see how belittling someone for not being aware of a late night cartoon is "fun." Maybe I'm too old-but I do have some interests that I think are fun that I acknowledge other people might not like. I just don't act like a jerk and use their lack of interest to make fun of them. We can poke at people, but not if it's not clear that it's meant in fun-and I don't see Dakar's poke as being in fun.

..and you're correct it wasn't. I'll be honest, the kid's been getting on my nerves lately and I've been a bit too forthcoming with that today.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

And Dakar, aside from my job requiring me to be up very early, I have enjoyed a lot of Adult Swim. I like the way they combine old stuff with new stuff-like bringing back Astro Boy, adding in Big O, and seasoning it with the Brak show or Space Ghost. I'm just not up on Venture Brothers stuff because it was a bit over the top for me-like Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

I still think you'd be considered atypical for your age group. By the same token turns out brass is too, if he hasn't heard of it. But that's neither here or there.

The important part is you've gravely insulted Venture Brothers by comparing them to ATHF. It's more of a Johnny Quest satire filled with pop culture references of the 80s and 90s. And the best thing since Futurama.

[brassplayersrock²]

if you tell me how i've been getting on your nerves instead of doing insults, that might help. you can PM me

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by analogika 

But you're hitting one point that does exemplify what's happened to this place (and this thread, to a degree):

I think you hit the nail on the head. This thread is a microcosm of the lounge.

This thread started out pretty well then a few of us got into an argument (to which I'm partly to blame). Now that last few pages are full of crap posts, people just posting pictures and stuff. This thread has reached end of being truly worthwhile.

[brassplayersrock²]

oh I'm sure this thread can be brought back to its former glory

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

I think you hit the nail on the head. This thread is a microcosm of the lounge.

Now that last few pages are full of crap posts, people just posting pictures and stuff.

How can you not like the picture posts? That is a staple of the (good) Lounge!

[MacosNerd]

I'm not against pictures but people started just adding them to this thread for no reason. Just look at what brass attached. He seems to be on a tear lately posting whoring and adding stuff to threads that really don't add value or do much.

[brassplayersrock²]

yeah it's called be bored ya jackass

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

I'm not against pictures but people started just adding them to this thread for no reason.

You and your reasons... Why do we like Apple Jacks even though it doesn't taste like apples? Because we just do!

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

Just look at what brass attached. He seems to be on a tear lately posting whoring and adding stuff to threads that really don't add value or do much.

I hadn't noticed.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

You and your reasons... Why do we like Apple Jacks even though it doesn't taste like apples? Because we just do!

You're right but my point is it did not add value to the topic at hand and it did not extend the discussion. I have no problems with pictures in threads but people just plopping them for no reason does not help matter imo.

[brassplayersrock²]

Boston is a great city isn't it MacosNerd? I love going to school there.

[boots]

^You went to/are going to school?

I'd ask for a refund, dude. You got gyped.

[brassplayersrock²]

i'd say the same about you boots

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

i'd say the same about you boots

I'd say that for the lot ya*





* I'm up for turning this into a random insult thread.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

You're right but my point is it did not add value to the topic at hand and it did not extend the discussion. I have no problems with pictures in threads but people just plopping them for no reason does not help matter imo.

Fair enough.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I don't see how belittling someone for not being aware of a late night cartoon is "fun." Maybe I'm too old-but I do have some interests that I think are fun that I acknowledge other people might not like.

That's just it: I think it was intended as "fun", but it just isn't.

I think the Poli Lounge really sucked all the fun out, as all the people who cared deeply about various things and spent their time in the Lounge to enjoy themselves just packed up and left in the onslaught of assholes (MNSHO) who piled into the Lounge despite having nothing whatsoever else to do with this board, or Macs.

People who come here to switch *off* their brains are boring.

[boots]

I'm just back to watch. Kind of like when you go to the petting zoo and pay a quarter to feed the goats. I guess I'm feeding the goats.

[boots]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

i'd say the same about you boots

Yeah, I tried, but since tax dollars pay up through high school, I couldn't get anyone to hear my case. Stopping in middle school was probably the best decision I ever made. That and the decision to eat Cheezy Enchilada Hamburger Helper for Dinner. That's some good...um...yeah. I stand by the cliché.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by starman 

Are you talking about BBQ? That's long gone.

That was a fun place. I miss it

You have about three years of catching up to do.

We lost the BBQ but we salvaged a George Foreman Grill* and mounted it on a life-raft. Well... Luc mounted it, but we stopped him before things got messy.



*All of the meat, none of the fat.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

The important part is you've gravely insulted Venture Brothers by comparing them to ATHF. It's more of a Johnny Quest satire filled with pop culture references of the 80s and 90s. And the best thing since Futurama.

In my defense, I only compared Venture Brothers affect on me to ATHF. I got the Johnny Quest part just fine (I saw Johnny in first run, by the way), but the overwhelming nature of the pop references turned me off. It's not like in Family Guy, where it's all psychedelic and nothing is really supposed to make sense, it's just in your face.

I'm glad to see that you had indeed intended your earlier post as a joke-even a pointed joke is much better than being rude or mean. It's just so hard to tell anymore. Maybe that's what the issue with the Lounge is; that people expect others to be rude to them here and just come in set for it. That's bad because if you expect to be treated badly it is easier to react badly to whatever treatment you get. I'm as guilty as the next person of reacting, but I work at not being rude if I can possibly avoid it. Really I do.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogika 

That's just it: I think it was intended as "fun", but it just isn't.

I think the Poli Lounge really sucked all the fun out, as all the people who cared deeply about various things and spent their time in the Lounge to enjoy themselves just packed up and left in the onslaught of assholes (MNSHO) who piled into the Lounge despite having nothing whatsoever else to do with this board, or Macs.

People who come here to switch *off* their brains are boring.

The people who "care deeply" in the PL have turned into zealots as often as not, which makes it very hard to participate there. There is no room for a middle ground, no ability to see other points of view, just as polar as you can get. It's uncomfortable for me to even read threads there-they set me off and make me feel polarized too, and I've worked hard to be able to see more than black and white.

But strong feelings aren't the property of the PL-take a look at the "I'll smite you with my mighty Blu-Ray disc, you heathen HD-DVD heretic!" posts in that thread. Over the top is a mild term for a lot of the posts there. I can't believe that this is so freaking important that people have to act like asses that way. Both formats have pluses and minuses, and eventually the marketplace will sort it out. Until then, we have to wait and see-and apparently put up with polar zealots for each format. I've frequently been more than half tempted to put that thread in the PL because of the level of bile in it.

I agree that things used to be more "fun" here, but I don't think there's a single factor that caused it to be less so. I think it's a group of factors that interact with each other, and I think the extremely vocal and irritating users like Kevin (who was more vocal than amusing most of the time) made others uncomfortable to reveal what they liked and disliked. If he were around now, I would not reveal things about myself such as that I like show tunes. He'd make a bad joke about "that's a sign you're gay" which, though false, is none of his business and completely irrelevant. Others would pile on his post with "takes one to know one" jibes and down hill goes the discussion. I can proudly say that "I like show tunes" because I do (my parents started a little theater troupe before I was born, and I grew up painting flats and holding music for actors) and let it go at that, and not worry about someone being juvenile and sophomoric about it now. Hopefully that will be the way a lot of people feel and slowly we'll get back to the "great party" atmosphere we had not so long ago.

[Dork.]

I guess the Lounge, much like life, is a cabaret, old chum....

[ghporter]

Or maybe we need to wait for more new and interesting people to wander in and spark up the conversations...

[besson3c]

Hey Glen, I'm here, at your service!

What do you want to talk about? Are you into accordions? Me neither, but I used to be.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Or maybe we need to wait for more new and interesting people to wander in and spark up the conversations...

A good way is to have a welcome mat (that is, a welcoming environment).

Not a "wanna see my internet argument (+1 psot) e-penis dodging work" mat.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I'm glad to see that you had indeed intended your earlier post as a joke-even a pointed joke is much better than being rude or mean. It's just so hard to tell anymore. Maybe that's what the issue with the Lounge is; that people expect others to be rude to them here an

Actually, if I'm reading his posts correctly, he didn't mean it in fun.

[boots]

One of the things that always came up in this kind of "discussion" (read, lament) back in the day was the word "Community." One side said that they came here because they felt it was a community that they could belong to. (And there's no one thing that defines a community.) the other side said that this was just an internet bulletin board and in no way resembled a community, so stuff it if you don't like it.

So a lot of us did migrate in favor of a more meaningful community. Look at the list of people who have 4 or 5 stars, yet haven't been particularly active in the last 3ish years. There's a correlation.

You want the glory back, be welcoming. Work to actually get to know people; not by pseudonym, but by first name. Build a community that shares a common interest. Until that happens, it's gonna be pretty lame. A couple of people (like olepigeon, just looking at the current front page of threads) will post really interesting things. Not just pop curiosity, but something they are genuinely interested in. Like hand made vacuum tubes. And people will make a few good responses, then the vultures will set in. It happens in every thread that starts of with substance.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by boots 

Build a community that shares a common interest. Until that happens, it's gonna be pretty lame.

*cough*

Perhaps we've all been in the lounge for so long that we've forgotten our common interest.

To the gallery, not boots:

IMO, what's actually happening is as Glenn alluded to earlier. Different people have different levels of "fun". Whilst I may get off calling you all a bunch of hippies (all in good fun, of course) others won't see the fun in this and will perhaps find their fun in an intellectual discussion about sandals, while still more will find their fun in talking about bowel movements.
It's a natural thing once a village progresses in population - it's inevitable that people will splinter into different groups with different interests. I actually have a working term for it - small village politics - which, of course, with my being a warrior poet for a living is usually framed in actual politics. It's why we get special interest groups lobbying governments. It's why a country with a population of 70m is far less cohesive than a country with 70k.

For the amount of people here this place is pretty damn good. If it wasn't, I wouldn't be here.

So give over and stop your whining, hippies!

[boots]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

*cough*

Perhaps we've all been in the lounge for so long that we've forgotten our common interest.

That's part of it. We had an influx from other boards who couldn't care less about Apple. Some were/are openly hostile about Apple. So, yeah. We lost a common interest.

[besson3c]

Maybe we need to splinter off the lounge into areas of interest?

We could have a sandals section, a Venture section, a "somebody did something stupid news story" section, a hot babes section, a bowel movements section, and a cat pictures section.

That way, people that like cat pictures can go into the cat thread, and people that like Venture can go into the Venture section, like that... You see?

I think it would be a good idea.

As for Doofy's remarks, I say that if it is okay for Doofy to call us hippies that it is okay for us to call him a hippy. This works out well, because I'm rather fond of calling him a hippy. I haven't really figured out why, but he seems to like it, so it's win win for everybody!

[subego]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I think it's a group of factors that interact with each other, and I think the extremely vocal and irritating users like Kevin (who was more vocal than amusing most of the time) made others uncomfortable to reveal what they liked and disliked. If he were around now, I would not reveal things about myself such as that I like show tunes. He'd make a bad joke about "that's a sign you're gay" which, though false, is none of his business and completely irrelevant.

There was no way you could have made your point other than taking a shot at someone who can't defend themselves?

Wow, just wow.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by boots 

That's part of it. We had an influx from other boards who couldn't care less about Apple. Some were/are openly hostile about Apple. So, yeah. We lost a common interest.

So you're saying let's start a lounge on a Mac-based forum, where Mac enthusiasts could share their interests?

I dunno... it's so crazy it just might work!

That iPod thing is gonna sink like a brick, though. $399.00 for 5 gigs? Are they out of their minds? And that scroll wheel is cumbersome-looking!

[boots]

Originally Posted by chris v 

That iPod thing is gonna sink like a brick, though. $399.00 for 5 gigs? Are they out of their minds? And that scroll wheel is cumbersome-looking!

Well, they are working to get rid of the scroll wheel. And they did have to make the drive bigger....

But yeah. I hear Apple is going to go out of business because the Apple Stores have too high an overhead expense.

[brassplayersrock²]

they're making stores now? ohh geeze, images of big white apples everywhere now?? NO THANK YOU

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

There was no way you could have made your point other than taking a shot at someone who can't defend themselves?

Wow, just wow.

Why would he have to? He's history regardless...

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Why would he have to? He's history regardless...

I'm not sure what the subject is in either sentence here.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

So give over and stop your whining, hippies!

Doofy is back!

I thought you partied to hard and wound up in Mexico or something.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm not sure what the subject is in either sentence here.

Sorry, I can see why this would be the case, what I wrote wasn't clear...

I was asking why would Kevin have to defend himself? He's history here - his defense or lack thereof changes nothing based on my understanding of what the mods have decided.

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Sorry, I can see why this would be the case, what I wrote wasn't clear...

I was asking why would Kevin have to defend himself? He's history here - his defense or lack thereof changes nothing based on my understanding of what the mods have decided.

I'm still a little confused at what you are asking.

Are you asking what's the point of him defending himself because his defense can't unban him?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I think it's a group of factors that interact with each other, and I think the extremely vocal and irritating users like Kevin (who was more vocal than amusing most of the time) made others uncomfortable to reveal what they liked and disliked. If he were around now, I would not reveal things about myself such as that I like show tunes. He'd make a bad joke about "that's a sign you're gay" which, though false, is none of his business and completely irrelevant.

I can't see Kevin saying something like that at all. His main "features" were endless arguments over semantics, the inability to admit he was wrong or made an error, constant pedantic criticism of MacNN moderation, condescendence, hypocrisy, and grammatical redundancy. I've never known him to make jokes like that, at least not recently.

[brassplayersrock²]

you and I finally agree on something Laminar

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm still a little confused at what you are asking.

Are you asking what's the point of him defending himself because his defense can't unban him?

Yes. From what I can gather, there is nothing he could say (outside of an apology) that would reverse the decision made by the mods to ban him.

[brassplayersrock²]

i don't think even an apology would do it

[Timo]

talking about someone who was banned is kind of the opposite of

Bringing the Lounge back to its former glory

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Yes. From what I can gather, there is nothing he could say (outside of an apology) that would reverse the decision made by the mods to ban him.

Got ya.

I wasn't talking about reversing the ban, I was talking about Glenn's accusation of how Kevin would hypothetically behave if he were to say he liked show tunes.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Timo 

talking about someone who was banned is kind of the opposite of

Exactly.

As I said, I'm pretty flabbergasted that an admin, of all people would start it up.

[boots]

This thread has lost it's glory.

[subego]

You know what? You're right.

Glenn, or Besson (or anyone) if you care to respond, you can PM me, or respond here, and I'll PM you back.

I felt this should have been taken care of in public. I was truly shocked, and should have thought about it a little longer.

My mistake, and my apologies.

[osiris]

drama on the high forums unfolds...

[osiris]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Maybe we need to splinter off the lounge into areas of interest?

I was thinking about this for a while, but rather than splintering this place into a millions bits, what if there was an adult lounge.

This new lounge would allow for more mature subject matter and better contained heated debates.
The lounge as it is isn't be a place for kids to see imo.