[Kerrigan]

More like, no one cares

[Eug]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Amazon.de has it on pre-order. Not cheap.

OMFG. €999. Is that unlocked at least? How much of that amount is tax?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

No one knows? I'm warning you, I'll start a thread about this if I don't get an answer!

More than that, Steve Jobs said in one of the video interviews that he couldn't use the iPhone as his phone up until the release since he had to keep it a secret, but that he could start using it from now on.

I think, though, that probably the FCC approval only applies if they want to sell it as a product. I mean, they have to be able to USE the phone during product development, so it's not like you can't use it at all until you get FCC approval.

[Eug]

If you check the phone geek sites, prototype pix show up all the time, and yeah, they have to be able to use it before they get approval. And some prototypes never see the light of day. For example, many tri-band phones are actually quad-band when they're prototyping it. The final products are tri-band however, and that's what they get FCC approval for.

BTW, FCC applications often show up online months before the phone is released. It never matters for other companies' phones though, because they've already announced it months before that.

I had predicted that Apple wouldn't announce the iPhone until a couple of months before the actual release, but in retrospect maybe I shouldn't have thought that, because of the FCC thing.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Eug 

OMFG. €999. Is that unlocked at least? How much of that amount is tax?

16% VAT in Germany. Plus the usual Apple-Europe Tax™.

I can't see anybody buying that. Nobody buys that €1000 Nokia model either.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger 

16% VAT in Germany.

The VAT in Germany is 19%.

[Eug]

So, that's about €840 before VAT. However, sometimes the € amount including VAT can be a reasonable guide to the US$ price, if you don't do a conversion: eg. The MacBook 1.83 is €1099 in France or €1199 in Germany, but US$1099 in the US. Thus, you might expect the iPhone to be about US$899-949 unlocked based on that Amazon.de €999 price.

I had been predicting $799-899 for that model iPhone unlocked, and I'm disappointed it seems I'm right, with the higher $899 number maybe closer to the truth. No way in Hades I'm paying US$899/CAD$999 for an unlocked iPhone, or CAD$699 for a locked iPhone with a 2-year contract.

[Goldfinger]

wtf, did that change ? Or am I going nuts ? The VAT that is.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Benefit of the doubt? Apple has a long history of doing things that annoy customers for no good reason (besides profit).

To be fair that is every company as none of them are in business just to make strangers happy and not make money in the process.

Look at all the phones out there today, there is no reason they all can't have Wifi or Blue-tooth but they are missing because it means the company will make an extra $XX bucks from each sale and the missing feature isn't going to drive off most customers to make them feel it needs the feature.

Heck even Sony sells its "walkman" and camera phones with 64 megs internal memory which is a joke. The first thing everyone does is go and spend another $100 on a storage card.

Apple also hides features on hardware it is selling but later tells us that our airport cards are actually N and not just B which is awesome.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

To be fair that is every company as none of them are in business just to make strangers happy and not make money in the process.

Look at all the phones out there today, there is no reason they all can't have Wifi or Blue-tooth but they are missing because it means the company will make an extra $XX bucks from each sale and the missing feature isn't going to drive off most customers to make them feel it needs the feature.

Heck even Sony sells its "walkman" and camera phones with 64 megs internal memory which is a joke. The first thing everyone does is go and spend another $100 on a storage card.

Apple also hides features on hardware it is selling but later tells us that our airport cards are actually N and not just B which is awesome.

Well, the difference here is that Sony Walkman phones have swappable memory. Granted it's $140 for 4GB right now, but at least it's possible, and memory prices decrease with time. These phones also have swappable batteries, which many consider a crucial feature.

And yeah, most phones do not have WiFi, and some don't even have Bluetooth, but they cost a heluvalot less.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, the difference here is that Sony Walkman phones have swappable memory. Granted it's $140 for 4GB right now, but at least it's possible

My point was that they are not including the card on their high end photo and MP3 phones knowing they are pointless without it just to make an extra buck and knowing everyone will go out and buy a card landing them even more money.

As for the battery it is NOT an issue. If you can carry batteries to "Swap" you can carry this which they sell everywhere and uses STANDARD batteries.

http://www.energizer.com/energitogo/index_flash.html

This is a better solution than a spare battery in almost every way.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

My point was that they are not including the card on their high end photo and MP3 phones knowing they are pointless without it just to make an extra buck and knowing everyone will go out and buy a card landing them even more money.

Maybe, but you don't have to buy the memory from the phone maker.

Anyways, the memory issue doesn't bother me that much. I'll just wait for a later model with more memory, or else just buy an iPod.

As for the battery it is NOT an issue. If you can carry batteries to "Swap" you can carry this which they sell everywhere and uses STANDARD batteries.

Experience the World of Energizer� Energi To Go.

This is a better solution than a spare battery in almost every way.

Except one of the most important ones: Convenience.

Can you imagine walking around talking on the iPhone, with one of these things hanging off of it?



I mean that is the anti-Apple, an example of uber-uncoolness.

However, it will have to do, as Apple doesn't give us any other choice.

[fhoubi]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

iPhone Unboxed

Suddenly I see how Apple will call its new phone when things go wrong with Cisco...

!Phone

[icruise]

It seems a little strange to me that Amazon has pricing for a product that isn't coming out until late this year. Is it possible that someone there was just extrapolating based on the US price?

As for the battery issue, it has been confirmed that the iPhone is compatible with iPod docks and speaker systems, so presumably it would be getting power through its dock connector. This means that there are ALREADY dozens of products that could be used to supply power to an iPhone in an emergency.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

As for the battery issue, it has been confirmed that the iPhone is compatible with iPod docks and speaker systems, so presumably it would be getting power through its dock connector. This means that there are ALREADY dozens of products that could be used to supply power to an iPhone in an emergency.

Oh yeah, for sure. However, they all suck, as the above pic illustrates.

But yeah, like I said, it's better than nothing. I may even end up getting one for my iPod, because Apple doesn't provide me any other option. Mind you, on an iPod, I don't need to talk on it so it's not as big of a deal. On a phone, it is more annoying.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Maybe, but you don't have to buy the memory from the phone maker.

Is it free from the other guys? I don't care who get the money but tell me what was the first thing you did after dropping $500 on a camera phone with 64 megs....

Except one of the most important ones: Convenience.

ya this pack is MORE convenient as you can have it the shell and realize your phone is going to die you can take any old AA's from another device or buy some at any store.

Even better you can buy this device only when you decide you really need it and not have to buy proprietary batteries by the handful "just in case".

To top that off it is cheaper than any spare battery Apple would sell.

Can you imagine walking around talking on the iPhone, with one of these things hanging off of it?

No, but I can picture pluggin it in for 10 minutes to give it enough juice for a couple calls. After that it is only 2 hours to fully charge.

You can literally never have to have a AC outlet again if you just buy batteries as you need them . Heck you could backpack over europe using the phone as needed and when you are in a pinch for a charge just use this pack if you can't find an AC for days.

You can't do that with propriatary batteries as it will cost you more, you have to carry them all with you and when they are dead you have no choice to spend a night at an outlet charging them again.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

No, but I can picture pluggin it in for 10 minutes to give it enough juice for a couple calls. After that it is only 2 hours to fully charge.

Exactly. Let's say your battery does die. Just plug the iPhone into an external battery and let it charge for a while. You're probably not going to have to actually talk with the thing hanging off the phone.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

ya this pack is MORE convenient as you can have it the shell and realize your phone is going to die you can take any old AA's from another device or buy some at any store.

I've used these things before.

Often times charging for a few minutes is insufficient. You have to charge for quite a bit longer before a phone/PDA will bootup. You can however, leave the thing plugged in and talk, but it's annoying.

Even better you can buy this device only when you decide you really need it and not have to buy proprietary batteries by the handful "just in case".

You buy ONE battery and reuse it.

To top that off it is cheaper than any spare battery Apple would sell.

Since when would you buy the battery from Apple?

Trust me I know exactly where you're coming from, but these phone rechargers are definitely annoying. I know cuz I've used them. But yeah, they do work in a pinch.

[::maroma::]

I don't recall seeing anything like this, but are there products out there that you plug into the iPod/Nano that give it more storage? Plug it into the dock connector, and it instantly gives you more storage, like a small thin 8GB flash card or something. If thats possible, I could see that being a nice addition to the iPhone, so that people could carry around more music/movies/pics.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Exactly. Let's say your battery does die. Just plug the iPhone into an external battery and let it charge for a while. You're probably not going to have to actually talk with the thing hanging off the phone.

Right, you get off a plane, see you have no juice, get a couple AA's put them in the pack and charge the phone for 10 min, unplug it, make that super important call the payphone can't do. After that you plus it back in, leave it in your bag while you go through customs and by the time you are done it is 50% charged.

IF apple lets us use spare batteries you know they would not sell for anything under $80.

This pod charger works with almost every phone out today and costs $20.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I don't recall seeing anything like this, but are there products out there that you plug into the iPod/Nano that give it more storage? Plug it into the dock connector, and it instantly gives you more storage, like a small thin 8GB flash card or something. If thats possible, I could see that being a nice addition to the iPhone, so that people could carry around more music/movies/pics.

I have never seen that.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Right, you get off a plane, see you have no juice, get a couple AA's put them in the pack and charge the phone for 10 min, unplug it, make that super important call the payphone can't do. After that you plus it back in, leave it in your bag while you go through customs and by the time you are done it is 50% charged.

IF apple lets us use spare batteries you know they would not sell for anything under $80.

This pod charger works with almost every phone out today and costs $20.

The ironic part is that if this were some other company's phone limitation and not the iPhone's, many people would say how clunky and annoying that is (like they should). However, because it's Apple, it's all OK.

But again, like I said, it will have to do, because Apple gives us no other option.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I don't recall seeing anything like this, but are there products out there that you plug into the iPod/Nano that give it more storage? Plug it into the dock connector, and it instantly gives you more storage, like a small thin 8GB flash card or something. If thats possible, I could see that being a nice addition to the iPhone, so that people could carry around more music/movies/pics.

I don't think such a thing is possible. The iPod, anyway, can't access anything aside from its own hard disk.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Since when would you buy the battery from Apple?

You think for a second the iPhone has a little incased battery like your phone phone that just pops in and out even if Apple let you?

No, the reason the phone is so thin is because it is molded to squeeze wherever there is room. It might be hidden between things.

For apple to have a removable battery the battery would need a case to survive handling and you can bet the phone would be much thicker as a result.

I mean this phone is THINNER by 3mm than my Pearl and I am still blown away on how thin the pearl is.

As for having ONE spare battery that you "re-use" the problem is that means you get 2 phone lifecycles before you need a wall outlet. This pod lets you walk into any gas station and buy any AA battery.

[::maroma::]

Man I finally watched the full iPhone intro (before I had cut it a bit short). I about fell asleep when the CEO of Cingular was up there talking. Good lord what a bore! I would almost rather have seen Balmer up there jumping around like a cracked out monkey. At least he's something to laugh at. This dude was reading from cards (poorly I might add), giving a speech that sounded like a commercial for ATT/Cingular. I see why Steve saved him for last. People might have walked out if he were up there first.

Anyways, sorry for the slightly off-topic comment.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

As for having ONE spare battery that you "re-use" the problem is that means you get 2 phone lifecycles before you need a wall outlet. This pod lets you walk into any gas station and buy any AA battery.

The other issue is battery death. My nephew's iPod is now dead because the battery won't recharge properly. EnergiToGo won't help that problem.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The other issue is battery death. My nephew's iPod is now dead because the battery won't recharge properly. EnergiToGo won't help that problem.

http://www.irepair.ca/

Unless you think it died because of a defect and not normal use in which case you gotta sue Apple or pay for a new one.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I don't think such a thing is possible. The iPod, anyway, can't access anything aside from its own hard disk.

That's a bummer. I think that would be a great addition to both the iPod and the iPhone. I mean, the full length movies from iTunes are upwards of 1GB+, and after the other stuff on your iPhone (music, photos, etc) there's not a terrible amount of space for a few movies. I could see myself going on long trips and running out of entertainment.

[Dark Helmet]

Other details include:

- 2 year contract required, applies for existing customers as well
- Apple is taking additional efforts to prevent the unlocking of the phones
- Apple and Cingular will share tech support responsibilities
- Cingular hinted at possible iPhone specific data plans
- Likely a 1 year warranty

- iTunes songs can not be set as ringtones
- As reported, battery is not user replaceable
- Gestures / Scrolling interface has brief learning curve
- Screen appears resistant to smudges
- No Voice over IP support
- No wireless iTunes downloads/purchases

Mac Rumors: Cingular Ties, Several More iPhone Models? And More Details...

Apple iPhone (Hands-On) | First Look

The Ultimate iPhone Frequently Asked Questions - Pogue’s Posts - Technology - New York Times Blog

[f1000]

Eug, you're being a little whiney. Dark Helmet has been making more sense than you. While I disagree with him about the importance of 3G/3.5G, I don't disagree with him that the iPhone, as it is, is still a great deal.

The iPhone isn't aimed at the masses. As Jobs pointed out during the keynote, Apple's only going for 1% of the cell phone market for now. He didn't even claim that it would be this iteration of the iPhone alone that would capture that 1% of the market in a year. In other words, there may be further iterations coming out within months of this one.

I've already pointed out several reasons why 3.5G (UMTS/HSDPA) may have been omitted:

1) price
2) battery life
3) lack of interest

Most people who don't tether a lot don't understand the advantage of 3.5G. It's gimmicky on the puny screen of most cell phones, and it's not surprising that many refuse to pay even $20/month for it. The iPhone may change all of that by creating a true need for 3.5G. Its glorious screen and well integrated multimedia capabilities practically scream for more bandwidth.

Adding Wi-Fi was brilliant. Get people addicted to high-speed wireless multimedia at home or near outside hotspots, and then make them want such performance at all times. Cingular is the only U.S. GSM provider with an advanced 3.5G system in place, so it makes perfect sense for Apple to have started with them.

We may never see a widescreen iPod video. There just may not be enough price differential to justify the sale of such a device.

[TETENAL]

iPhone: Was Steve Jobs nicht verriet - Macwelt - News - Messen und Events

So the iPhone will definitely support Java. goMac was wrong again as usual.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The other issue is battery death. My nephew's iPod is now dead because the battery won't recharge properly. EnergiToGo won't help that problem.

Certainly a good point, and more serious than the "extra battery" issue in my opinion. Going without an iPod for a while while you get the battery replaced is one thing, but going without your phone is another.

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

That's a bummer. I think that would be a great addition to both the iPod and the iPhone. I mean, the full length movies from iTunes are upwards of 1GB+, and after the other stuff on your iPhone (music, photos, etc) there's not a terrible amount of space for a few movies. I could see myself going on long trips and running out of entertainment.

This reminds me of another question I have. I wonder how the videos that I've encoded myself will look on the new widescreen display. I did a fair amount of testing when the original video iPod came out and found that using high bitrates and high resolutions (at that time this was limited to MPEG-4) didn't seem to make much of a difference when viewed on the iPod. (Obviously there is a big difference if you're going to be watching them on a TV or on your computer). I mostly watch things on the iPod, so I've been encoding things at pretty low bitrates, and I haven't found the need to bump up the resolution even now that the iPod can handle VGA. The feature films I encode myself take up around 250-300MB and half hour TV shows about 60MB, which would obviously save a lot of space on the phone if they weren't too terrible on the new screen.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

iPhone: Was Steve Jobs nicht verriet - Macwelt - News - Messen und Events

So the iPhone will definitely support Java. goMac was wrong again as usual.

Well, if he was wrong then so was David Pogue, to be fair. What does this say, anyway?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

iPhone: Was Steve Jobs nicht verriet - Macwelt - News - Messen und Events

So the iPhone will definitely support Java. goMac was wrong again as usual.

BS.

That's just an assumption on the part of MacWelt.

Welche Internet-Technologien laufen auf dem iPhone?
Apple will nach eigenen Angaben möglichst viele Plug-ins für Safari unterstützen, wollte sich aber uns gegenüber nicht festlegen, welche das sein werden. Flash und Java werden aber sicher dazugehören.

TETENAL was wrong.

-t

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by f1000 

I've already pointed out several reasons why 3.5G (UMTS/HSDPA) may have been omitted:

1) price
2) battery life
3) lack of interest

4) COVERAGE. It is so limited in parts of the US now and they charge a premium.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Going without an iPod for a while while you get the battery replaced is one thing, but going without your phone is another.

Many of my phones have needed repair in the past. They don't just have me send in a defective part but the whole thing.

The good part is they give you a loaner phone or you can use a spare one you have laying about.




Boing Boing: Apple phone: no need to wait for June on this one.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

iPhone: Was Steve Jobs nicht verriet - Macwelt - News - Messen und Events

So the iPhone will definitely support Java. goMac was wrong again as usual.

I didn't say it had no Java. David Pogue said it had no Java, and I'm still inclined to believe him. That, and Apple has made it clear no 3rd party programs will be running on the iPhone. That means you're not going to be loading on 3rd party cell phone apps. Why? Because Jobs wants to control the device, just like I said.

[Eug]

If it has no support for 3rd party apps, why would it have Java?

Originally Posted by f1000 

Eug, you're being a little whiney.

If you want to call me names, that's up to you I guess.

While I disagree with him about the importance of 3G/3.5G, I don't disagree with him that the iPhone, as it is, is still a great deal.

For some people yes.

The iPhone isn't aimed at the masses.

Bingo!

I have been saying this for this entire thread. This version of the iPhone is aimed at a small part of the market. It's heartening to see more people are finally coming around to understanding this, for the various reaons we've already stated.

As Jobs pointed out during the keynote, Apple's only going for 1% of the cell phone market for now. He didn't even claim that it would be this iteration of the iPhone alone that would capture that 1% of the market in a year. In other words, there may be further iterations coming out within months of this one.

Yup.

I've already pointed out several reasons why 3.5G (UMTS/HSDPA) may have been omitted:

1) price
2) battery life
3) lack of interest

Most people who don't tether a lot don't understand the advantage of 3.5G. It's gimmicky on the puny screen of most cell phones, and it's not surprising that many refuse to pay even $20/month for it. The iPhone may change all of that by creating a true need for 3.5G. Its glorious screen and well integrated multimedia capabilities practically scream for more bandwidth.

Quad-band GSM in some ways is more desirable for the chosen launch market. 3G is more desirable for this class of phone however, but isn't as practical for the launch market.

Adding Wi-Fi was not surprising.

Fixinated (for this price class of phone).

We may never see a widescreen iPod video. There just may not be enough price differential to justify the sale of such a device.

I'd be extremely surprised to see the iPhone be the only iPod with the iPod features it has. It makes no sense because of the extremely high cost of the iPhone. An iPod would be hundreds cheaper. The announcement of the iPhone doesn't mean they're going to abandon the high end iPod market.

Originally Posted by icruise 

This reminds me of another question I have. I wonder how the videos that I've encoded myself will look on the new widescreen display. I did a fair amount of testing when the original video iPod came out and found that using high bitrates and high resolutions (at that time this was limited to MPEG-4) didn't seem to make much of a difference when viewed on the iPod. (Obviously there is a big difference if you're going to be watching them on a TV or on your computer). I mostly watch things on the iPod, so I've been encoding things at pretty low bitrates, and I haven't found the need to bump up the resolution even now that the iPod can handle VGA. The feature films I encode myself take up around 250-300MB and half hour TV shows about 60MB, which would obviously save a lot of space on the phone if they weren't too terrible on the new screen.

H.264 Baseline Level 3.0 is much better quality than MPEG4. Going to higher rez doesn't help much on the small iPod screen though. It only helps (and enormously) when you output to TV.

The movies I encode are 1 GB each, since I encode at about 1.5 Mbps H.264, at 640x360 or whatever.

Remember though for you your movies would need to get bigger. The screen is 480x320, which means for 16:9 movies you'd ideally want to encode at 480x272 or better.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

4) COVERAGE. It is so limited in parts of the US now and they charge a premium.

... in the USA which is a miniscule part of the global market Steve Jobs said he wants. There are 2.3 billion GSM subscribers on the planet of which about 37 million are in the US, 600 million are in China and 500 million are in Europe. If Apple really has designed this product with American subscribers in mind, then they've made a mistake.

Here's a list of all of the countries with UMTS networks in place (it also lists EDGE).
http://www.3gamericas.org/pdfs/Globa...tus_Update.pdf

And here's one just showing EDGE networks.
http://www.3gamericas.org/pdfs/edgefactsheet.pdf

Apple would have to convert 1 in 3 Americans with GSM phones to the iPhone to reach their target exclusively through US sales. They really do need to sell millions of iPhones in other parts of the world to reach their target so it is quite important that this phone competes with other smartphones on sale in Europe and Asia.

[icruise]

*This* iPhone isn't for the masses, but then again neither was the original iPod in many ways. It's a starting point. Assuming it takes off, in a year or two we'll see considerably cheaper models, and ones for different networks or regions. This is a totally new product category for Apple, so you can't expect everything right away.

I was just watching the end of the keynote, where Steve demos talking on the phone at the same time as using the Internet. Is that possible over EDGE, or is the iPhone using wi-fi for the Internet part?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Troll 

And here's one just showing EDGE networks.
http://www.3gamericas.org/pdfs/edgefactsheet.pdf

Interesting.

Cingular seems to be the oldest commercial EDGE provider worldwide.

-t

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Eug 

If it has no support for 3rd party apps, why would it have Java?

Because Java is pervasive on the net and the iPhone is supposed to have a "real" full-featured web browser. And OS X already comes with Java, so why not have it?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Because Java is pervasive on the net and the iPhone is supposed to have a "real" full-featured web browser. And OS X already comes with Java, so why not have it?

Because it costs money to licence it.

Embedded Java apps (which are becoming less and less common on the net) in web pages are something that'd be fine to leave out, if they're going to keep the phone closed anyway.

P.S. I don't know what you mean by pervasive. Do you mean Javascript?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

*This* iPhone isn't for the masses, but then again neither was the original iPod in many ways. It's a starting point. Assuming it takes off, in a year or two we'll see considerably cheaper models, and ones for different networks or regions. This is a totally new product category for Apple, so you can't expect everything right away.

I agree completely.

I was just watching the end of the keynote, where Steve demos talking on the phone at the same time as using the Internet. Is that possible over EDGE

Yes.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Because Java is pervasive on the net and the iPhone is supposed to have a "real" full-featured web browser. And OS X already comes with Java, so why not have it?

The iPhone also likely has an arm processor. It's probably not going to be a simple recompile just to get the Java VM running on ARM. I'm assuming that Apple's Java VM has a lot of hand tuned processor level code.

That, and Apple's VM is probably linked to AppKit and Aqua, which do not exist for the iPhone. It's no where near as simple as "just recompile it". They'd have to make a version of Java tuned for this phone.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Troll 

... in the USA which is a miniscule part of the global market Steve Jobs said he wants. There are 2.3 billion GSM subscribers on the planet of which about 37 million are in the US, 600 million are in China and 500 million are in Europe. If Apple really has designed this product with American subscribers in mind, then they've made a mistake.

Here's a list of all of the countries with UMTS networks in place (it also lists EDGE).
http://www.3gamericas.org/pdfs/Globa...tus_Update.pdf

And here's one just showing EDGE networks.
http://www.3gamericas.org/pdfs/edgefactsheet.pdf

Apple would have to convert 1 in 3 Americans with GSM phones to the iPhone to reach their target exclusively through US sales. They really do need to sell millions of iPhones in other parts of the world to reach their target so it is quite important that this phone competes with other smartphones on sale in Europe and Asia.

I think what people need to remember, is that the target number of 1% market share was projected for the END of 2008. After its first FULL year on the market. And we know that there won't be a phone for Europe/Asia until at least end of 2007 or beginning of 2008. There is no reason to believe that Apple won't use UMTS for those phones when that time comes. Or even that there will be other versions to choose from, cheaper, less features, etc.

So this first version is aimed at the U.S. market of TODAY. And Apple is going for what is most widely used in the U.S. at this time. This is smart. They will sell a buttload of these to U.S. consumers. By the time the release it to the rest of the world, only Apple knows what they have planned, but its not crazy to assume that they'll make the changes necessary to take full advantage of what the most widely used things in other countries.

The iPhone we all saw on Tuesday will not be what the "other world" (that crazy world outside of the U.S.) will be getting.

[mdc]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I was just watching the end of the keynote, where Steve demos talking on the phone at the same time as using the Internet. Is that possible over EDGE, or is the iPhone using wi-fi for the Internet part?

My BlackBerry won't do any data (EDGE) if I'm on a phone call. T-Mobile.
Sometimes as soon as I end a call a handful of emails come through since I guess they're queued up and not downloading while I'm on a phone call.

[TETENAL]

We know that it contains an Intel CPU and Intel doesn't make the XScale ARM any more. And the iPhone's OS contains Cocoa according to one slide in the keynote.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mdc 

My BlackBerry won't do any data (EDGE) if I'm on a phone call. T-Mobile.
Sometimes as soon as I end a call a handful of emails come through since I guess they're queued up and not downloading while I'm on a phone call.

That's odd. To my knowledge, even with GPRS you sould be able to transmit data while being on a call.

-t

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's odd. To my knowledge, even with GPRS you sould be able to transmit data while being on a call.

-t

MY Pearl does not allow it either.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

We know that it contains an Intel CPU

We do?