[BrunoBruin]

I need a new TV and I'm thinking about taking the plunge and going for a widescreen high-definition set. Not one of those huge projection ones, but a mid-sized direct-view. I don't care about availability of HD programming since I don't watch much "regular" TV, but it would be great to watch letterboxed DVDs with a picture taller than about 10 inches! Anyone here have any experience with HD? Anyone care to speculate if the prices will go down in the next six months or so?

[I Bent My Wookiee]

I got one 2 years ago. It is great for DVD's and even TV.

Projection does have much better picture then Direct though. The costs shouldn't drop anytime soon as they have been out for ages.

[BrunoBruin]

Well, I did look at a projection model that was pretty sweet, and cheaper to boot. Hmmm...

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
<STRONG>Well, I did look at a projection model that was pretty sweet, and cheaper to boot. Hmmm...</STRONG>

Toshiba and Sony make the best picture quality sets. CRT doesn't come close to that "Film like" picture.

You also have to look at the features such as inputs, and make sure it is progressive that supports 480p AND 1080i.

[vmarks]

One of the problems with going HDTV at this early stage is, we don't know what will happen with US law.

The Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Protection Act (Senate Bill 2048) makes it legal to use HDTV in conjunction with a VCR containing digital rights management (not yet implemented) and sets forth that broadcasters must set their copy protection bits in the broadcast to allow taping of the first run of a show.

The problem with buying HDTV now is, if this law passes (hope it doesn't) any HDTV set you buy now won't be able to understand the copy-protected broadcast, and there are no plans set forth to help you upgrade your TV at this time, that I know of.

So, that said, you could buy one today, and two years from now, have it be useless. We buy computers that way, but traditionally, the televisions in my house last a lot longer than computers do. I for one, would hate to buy a TV to have it become not only obsolete, but unusable, that quickly.

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Almost every HDTV set that ships today doe NOT have the HDTV decoder built in so when anything does finally get finalized it will be ok.

As long as the TV supports 480p, 720p or 1080i then you are safe.

[RAzaRazor]

Originally posted by I Bent My Wookiee:
<STRONG>
</STRONG>

Heh, Cool! I've never seen anyone use those low voltage lights vertically before.

That's a good idea!

[crawlingparanoia]

You have to go Mitsubishi - they totally own at widescreens.

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Originally posted by crawlingparanoia:
<STRONG>You have to go Mitsubishi - they totally own at widescreens.</STRONG>

Ya but that does not make them the best. MS owns the desktop with Windows remember. And don't forget Dell.

I have heard of a TON of stupid problems with Mitsubishi such as it locking into certain modes that it thinks it is fit.

[M�lum]

My new object of desire:
B&O Beovision 5

[starman]

http://www.hometheaterforum.com

'Nuff said.

Mike

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by starman:
<STRONG>http://www.hometheaterforum.com

'Nuff said.
</STRONG>

Who's "Nuff"?

[BrunoBruin]

http://www.hometheaterforum.com

'Nuff said.

Thanks, but I don't know or trust those guys the way I know and trust y'all.

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
<STRONG>

Thanks, but I don't know or trust those guys the way I know and trust y'all. </STRONG>

Awww group hug group hug!

-Owl

[Arty50]

The other issue is the implemenation of HAVi. Mitsubishi is the first major manufacturer to roll out HAVi. Basically, it brings connectivity and interoperability all over one cable...a Firewire cable no less. Major strides have been made recently and we should start to see it roll out across high end A/V equipment in the coming 1-2 years. But like anything, it's going to take a while. So you might want to consider your current A/V setup and where you want to go in the future. Me? I'm waiting. I'll start considering it when cable/DirectTV decoders have HAVi built in. I have many more reasons than this, and Vmarks covered some of them above. If you have a lot of disposable income though, I say why not.

[Mac Zealot]

Problem with that HAVi shiznt is that you can't distribute signals.

For example I have a DVD player, lets say I want sound to go to my stereo AND my TV, and the video to my TV.

No problem, just a few video cables, maybe S video, and a set of audio ones.

HAVi requires a router of sorts. Junk.

[tookiokama68]

HDTV has been around FOREVER. I think its first incarnation was back in 1953... I learned that in my last film/tv/radio class. The fax machine? 1934 or so. Heh. Crazy.

- Ca$h

[M�lum]

Originally posted by tookiokama68:
<STRONG>HDTV has been around FOREVER. I think its first incarnation was back in 1953... I learned that in my last film/tv/radio class. The fax machine? 1934 or so. Heh. Crazy.

- Ca$h</STRONG>

The theory for FAX transmissions were patented by the scottish inventor Alexander Bain in 1843.
in 1860 italian inventor Giovanni Caselli made the first commercial fax machine.

The first fax transmission was a music score by composer Rossini between Paris and Lyon.

HDTV is not an invention. It just indicates High definition TV, in 1953 the concept of high definition was probably close to what we now call S-VHS.

[ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: M�lum ]

[voodoo]

Define 'fax' transmission. Is 'telex' fax too?

Fax, in 1860???

[driven]

I was all set to buy one last month, but then I found out about the potential changes in upcoming legislation.

Basically they want to put anti-piracy code INSIDE the set and you'll only be able to decode the shows with this internal technology, and not with a set-top box.

Hollywood and the TV studios are afraid that if you decode with a set-top box that you might &lt;gasp&gt; TAPE a show. They really want to use this as an opportunity to eliminate VCRs and the like. I'm afraid that in the process they are going to kill digital TV.

Since I generally keep a good TV for 10-15 years before upgrading I decided to put my money back in my wallet and will wait to see how this plays out.

[driven]

Here is an article from a recent PC Magazine:

This was taken from John C. Dvorak's Inside Track column in the print
version of PC Magazine. (To subscribe or to see other Dvorak columns
go to www.pcmag.com).

While on the Subject of HDTV Dept.:

For some odd reason, I feel disgusted and at the same time vindicated
by the most recent fiasco regarding HDTV. I have been skeptical of
this rollout and urging caution since it was first proposed as an
analog system requiring expensive gallium arsenide circuits to work.
It appears that the new copy-protection schemes being dreamed up by
Hollywood will make every single HDTV set sold to date obsolete. And
buyers of new sets are not being told about this situation in a
dubious attempt to dump very expensive inventory. I'm sure those of
you who have spent $5,000 to $10,000 for what may become an albatross
are going to love reading this.

What happened was that the Hollywood folks, who are just freaked over
the possibility that we'll be copying HDTV movies, have promoted copy
protection that requires the decode circuit to be built into the
display, not into the set-top box. This requires the set-top box to
send a signal to a connector that new HDTV sets will have. If you're
thinking of buying an HDTV, don't, unless it has this connector and
circuit - whenever they are finalized. I suspect that this copy
protection mechanism will be used for certain broadcasts, too, since
there has been a lot of talk about copy-protecting DSS and other
transmissions.

The concept is that when copy protection is put within the circuitry
of the display, you can't decode something with a set-top box and then
grab the signal as it comes out of the box and before it gets to the
screen.

Meanwhile, the HDTV-promoting Consumer Electronics Association is
going to eat crow if all the current HDTV sets turn out to be white
elephants. I see no evidence that this mess will be resolved without
a lot of burned consumers. All the Hollywood studios are belatedly
demanding the new system. I suppose an expensive retrofit could be
developed, but it probably won't be. Nothing is designed nowadays for
fixing or retrofitting.

And I'm guessing that those expensive set-top boxes will also have to
be replaced. According to most sources, all the latest schemes allow
copy-protected broadcasts and movies to be viewed on the old HDTV
sets, but they will fall back to lower resolution. Welcome to the
bleeding edge. Anyone even thinking of getting HDTV before this issue
is completely resolved is just throwing money away. Funny how your
local newspaper or TV station hasn't been covering this consumer
issue, isn't it?

[BrunoBruin]

Awww group hug group hug!

But see, this is exactly the type of advice I was hoping to get. It has all been really helpful, and I learned a lot of things I did not know.

I just sold my iMac (I never used it, and it was lonely) and was going to plow that cash into a TV. I think I need to invest in something safer. Like buy another Mac instead.

[Bockie]

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
<STRONG>...I don't care about availability of HD programming since I don't watch much "regular" TV...</STRONG>

Last summer, I was looking for a new television myself. Unlike you, I am concerned about "regular" TV (aka cable programming), so I thought about the long-term outlook of the TV industry. The FCC mandated that as of May 1, 2002, all commercial broadcast stations (not PBS, Gov't Access, Public Access...) be transmitting a digital feed...as of last week, 65% of the 1,309 broadcasters have said they will not meet the deadline.

I foresaw this delay and I also see a huge delay in the ability of these stations to broadcast in any variety of HDTV. Even cable and satellite rebroadcasters will have delays in implementing HDTV. Their reasoning is $$$. There are only a handful of cable channels that broadcast HD programming, and there is a tremendous up-front capital investment to allow for the retransmission of these channels for a VERY limited number of subscribers.

The markets where the local commercial broadcasters transmit a HD feed, the cable/satellite providers will be more eager to handle the upgrade expense for a larger customer base (just not small-town GA ).

Because of this limited access to DTV and HDTV programming, I just went with a 36" Sony WEGA...It'll do for a while!

FCC Chairman, Michael Powell (son of Sec. of State Colin Powell), submitted to Congress last week a new plan to transition all signals to Digital TV (DTV). Here are the highlights:

• Four major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) and HBO and Showtime provide HD programming for the 02-03 season (min. 50% in prime time)
• By Jan 1, 2003, major network affiliates in top 100 markets are to install pass-through equipment for HD programming, if that is what the network provides ( )
• By Jan 1, 2003, cable providers with 750MHz of capacity and satellite providers would offer free carriage of five HD channels or for other DTV channels that offer at least 50% of prime time HDTV programming
• TV manufactures would be required to build cable boxes that are HDTV capapble and can show broadcast, cable, and satellite programming with no modifications
• Over time, TV manufactures would be required to install off-air DTV tuners in TVs ( )
• By Jan 1, 2004, 50% of all TVs 36" and larger would have to include DTV tuners
• By Jan 1, 2005, all TVs 36" and larger would have to include DTV tuners
• By Dec 31, 2006, all TVs 13" and larger would have to include DTV tuners

Of course, these are all voluntary measures...So I don't expect any of these to be met.

[edit: forgot to add what I bought]

[ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: Bockie ]

[M�lum]

Originally posted by voodoo:
<STRONG>Define 'fax' transmission. Is 'telex' fax too?

Fax, in 1860???</STRONG>

The text or image was "burned" in a copperplate. a pen would scan line by line the imprint and transfer it to the other side of the telephone line where the text or image would be drawn by a pen.

Telex is something else. (Telex was invented by Frederick Creed in 1897.)

The signal used to transfer both Fax messages and Telex was Morse.

[ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: M�lum ]

[driven]

I really want a new TV, but I don't NEED one.

Thus: I won't spend a dime on TV or related hardware until these guys all get their acts together.

Want my money? Figure it out.

Why can we launch a space program that put a man on the moon in less time than we can deploy a viable HDTV network?
(Especially when we have overseas models to work from!)

[Arty50]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
<STRONG>Problem with that HAVi shiznt is that you can't distribute signals.

For example I have a DVD player, lets say I want sound to go to my stereo AND my TV, and the video to my TV.

No problem, just a few video cables, maybe S video, and a set of audio ones.

HAVi requires a router of sorts. Junk.</STRONG>

Huh? Components aren't designed to do that now either. I haven't seen a DVD player with two sets of RCA audio outs. Of course, you can always use a RCA y-splitter to break up the audio signal. But what the heck do you want to do that for? In other words, why would someone who hooks a DVD player up to a stereo want to hook it up to a tv also? Especially considering the splitter will degrade the sound quality to both components. Right now you just go dvd -&gt; stereo -&gt; TV. Why overcomplicate this?

Also, from what I recall, HAVi isn't limited by a direct connection. I thought that each component was daisy-chainable and thus each acts like a hub. I don't see where the problem is.

[argod]

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...eo-2-2002.html

[BrunoBruin]

Well, after researching this, here is some news, but I'm not sure what it means for consumers in the long run.

LAS VEGAS (Variety) - Federal Communications Commission (news - web sites) chairman Michael Powell hit the jackpot Tuesday as the electronics industry reversed itself and embraced the regulator's voluntary plan to begin equipping television sets with digital tuners, beginning New Year's 2004.

The move marks a major victory for broadcasters and provides a key element in the FCC chairman's sweeping strategy for jump-starting the nation's faltering transition to digital TV.

The move could pose significant implications for consumers, who can now expect to see a new generation of TV sets. Until Tuesday, TV manufacturers had vigorously opposed the idea of including digital tuners in sets until stations were indeed broadcasting digitally.

The Consumer Electronics Assn. (CEA) had been the only group to criticize Powell's plan, and the FCC chair was clearly pleased at the organization's shift.

CEA president Gary Shapiro issued a statement saying his industry is committed to working with the FCC. Shapiro also was in Sin City for NAB.

Shapiro has long argued that electronic makers should not bear the brunt in making digital TV a reality. He considers the major stumbling block to be Hollywood, which has refused to license content until there is adequate copy protection.

But Powell said CEA member companies, including Panasonic and Mitsubishi, had personally contacted him in the past week to say they were in fact willing to consider the digital tuner rule.

[Bockie]

See my post above.

By the way, Digital Television (DTV) is not the same as High Definition Television (HDTV).

[Montezuma58]

Originally posted by Arty50:
<STRONG>

Huh? Components aren't designed to do that now either. I haven't seen a DVD player with two sets of RCA audio outs. Of course, you can always use </STRONG>

Double Huh?

There are DVD players with multiple analog outputs. My 4.5 year old Sony has 2 full sets of analog A/V output and two digital audio outs. Even if you only had one analog out you would most likely use the digital audio out to connect to the stereo and the analog audio could go to the TV.

Don't know anything about HAVi though.

[driven]

Originally posted by Bockie:
<STRONG>See my post above.

By the way, Digital Television (DTV) is not the same as High Definition Television (HDTV).</STRONG>

It's kind of like the square / rectangle thing. (A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't a square)

HDTV is DTV, but DTV isn't necessarily HDTV.

In any event, it looks like it will be 5 years or more before I buy a new TV after they get their standards sorted out. &lt;sigh&gt; (I'd better be nice to my current set ... it's going to be working through it's retirement years.)

[Mac Zealot]

The movie industry is responsible for every damned f-up in the computer industry.. take note:

Movie industry puts x computer in x movie: X computer becomes popular

Movie industry makes a lot of ads and tries to show how cool somethng new is because it has a hiden thing like macrovision or **** , thus it becomes popular

Movie industry suggests putting modems in tvs to report if someone's attempting to copy the transmission, etc, that way if you do something bad they can report you (the tv won't work unless it's connected to their network)

They want digital TV like tivo to be gone since it means people can replay their movies

they want to make VCR's and video camcorders obselete since they can record anything.

they want to make tape recorders obselete since they can record music legally

They want to make a new signal with decoding only in the tv so that you cant' record tv shows

These people are evil.