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benschilke · Jan 4, 2001, 02:07 AM

The oldest computers from Apple I've seen on the used market recently have been the classic, the color classic, etc., but I remember there being others before them--like the Apple IIe(?). Has anyone ever seen a working Apple IIe recently? everymac.com, unfortunately, doesn't seem to list them (though they have a GREAT site). Are they even worth owning nowadays? I'm just curious and fascinated by the old machines.

Ben

jeromep · Jan 4, 2001, 04:19 AM

If you do a Google search for Apple II you will come up with a lot of links related to the history of the platform and may come across some resellers of used equipment. If you would respond to this thread, I would like to know what your goals are with these older and basically archaic systems. Not that I didn't log my fair share of hours on Apple II systems, but they are completely outmoded for modern computing needs.

Just a suggestion, but I'm sure that you will find plenty of people on eBay selling Apple II class systems.

Ok, not as helpful as some messages that will follow, but it gives you a place to start.

Oh,one more thing. Yes, I have seen operating IIe and IIc and IIgs equipment. They are still in use in some school districts as "drill and kill" machines. They are very good at that and most districts have huge libraries of software for these systems.

[This message has been edited by jeromep (edited 01-04-2001).]

denim · Jan 4, 2001, 11:05 AM

All I know is that I haven't seen anything running LEMONADE in a very long time.

Jan 4, 2001, 06:39 PM

Ha...yes, denim, that's the kind of thing I miss. I had limited exposure to these computers, but I guess I'm just nastalgic(sp?). I think it's fascinating that there seems to be a subculture of people trying to surf the internet with 680x0 machines (color classics? etc.)--this is what I gather from the sites I've found on the internet.

By the way, what is a "drill and kill" machine?

Ben

jeromep · Jan 4, 2001, 11:56 PM

"Drill and Kill" is a term used by teachers to describe how educational software interacts with the children using it. The software drills the student on some sort of problem and the computer won't let go of it until the student gets the answer correct. That is the most basic description for it.

As for using 68k machines to surf the internet. Back in 95 and 96, they were still the majority of Macs in use and most software, content and services on the Internet were not so hefty that they needed the power of PowerPC. I kind of still long for those days when the Internet was simpler and probably better.

I still have a few 68k machines in use doing some basic network duties.

druber · Jan 5, 2001, 12:15 AM

i came into an apple IIe about a month ago. let me just say the driver rocks on it!! okay, it looks worse than pong, but it is called driver. a little wild to type on the word processing program and watch the file-size meter climb with each keystroke. don't have much software for it, but it's still kinda cool.

denim · Jan 5, 2001, 06:26 PM

Do you have LEMONADE, or did that only come with the II+?

druber · Jan 5, 2001, 09:44 PM

What's LEMONADE? (which is my way of saying, no I don't have it) Some friends gave me the computer instead of throwing it away and gave me the disks they had (they got it from an Uncle, I'm not even sure they'd booted it up). Do you have this LEMONADE or which you speak?

Walter J. Ferstl · Jan 6, 2001, 12:17 PM

Remember, the Apple II (and Apple III) series were a completely different hardware architecture compared to the Macintosh. As far as I remember, they were based on the Mostek 6502 processor, clocked between 1 and 4 MHz.

The Macintosh architecture, based on the Motorola 68000, started with a computer not yet called "Macintosh", but "Lisa", back in 1982 or 1983.

Regards,

Walter.

ValVashon · Jan 6, 2001, 08:25 PM

Just got my PB 520c to start surfing the net a few weeks ago. iCab works great on this old machine; also have a very early version of Eudora for the e-mail checking. Next week I add 32meg of memory and a PRAm battery and I'm all set to go! I plan on taking it in the TV Satellite Truck I operate and use it for a morning check of the e-mail, or a surf of the internet if a reporter wants to check a fact ot two. The only problem I have is getting it to dial out and stay connected when faxing (over a cell phone). It will make an internet connection just fine, but won't fax. Faxing from a land line works just fine.

There's a subculture of 68xxx internet surfers because it's fun to be able to keep such an old machine useable in today's world. Plus, they're cheap.

Val

denim · Jan 8, 2001, 01:26 AM

No, I don't have a copy of LEMONADE. It was a little game which came with DOS 3.2 or so, using the Apple II+'s lowres graphics. It was cute. IIRC, it was written in Applesoft.

mkuehn · Jan 8, 2001, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by denim:
All I know is that I haven't seen anything running LEMONADE in a very long time.

Wow, LEMONADE rocked! It is probably my favorite piece of educational software. For some reason, the games I remember playing most often are Ultima III, Congo Bongo and Lemonade. I still can hear the music...

scaught · Jan 16, 2001, 10:45 PM

i remember fighting other kids at my elementary school to play the original version of "oregon trail" on the apple ][ E's. i cant really remember that much of the game, but i remember if your wagon broke a wheel, it was over.
over the summer i purchased a macintosh SE (the little 5 inch black and white screen thing) at a garage sale for 10 bucks. it came in a carrying bag (why they made a bag for it i will never know, its not like its portable. it weighs like 45 pounds or something). we tried to get it on the internet but didnt pursue it too much. i will get that sucker flying one of these days.

Walter J. Ferstl · Jan 17, 2001, 02:51 PM

scaught,

if you are still interested, have a look at

MacWEEK: "Viewing the Web in black and white" (on a Mac SE) http://macweek.zdnet.com/1999/10/17/soapbox.html

Low End Mac: "What Can I Do With a Mac Plus, SE, or Classic?" http://lowendmac.net/macdan/991022.shtml

Low End Mac: "Faster Browsing on Older Macs" http://lowendmac.net/tech/browser.shtml

Regards,

Walter.

TheDoctor · Jan 17, 2001, 06:32 PM

I remember Lemonade (in fact, I was something of a champ), but I always liked O'Dell Lake and Oregon Trail better.

mike one · Jan 18, 2001, 01:11 AM

let's get old school.
lemonade was really cool, and i remember oregon trail too, in fifth grade, but what about these on apple iie's and iic's:
LOGO!!!!!!!!!!
motezuma's revenge, mario brothers, that space game with the land rover that jumped and shot up and forward, what else??? karateka (sp?)

what about print shop? and printing off those damn 15 foot long banners that said stupid stuff like "this is mike's room, stay out!"

how about programming that sucker to draw different color lines on the screen in BASIC?

i also remember some text based hockey game, that was pretty old school.

well that's all my mind can conjure up at the moment, all i know for sure is that apple's rocked, except for the apple iigs which wouldn't run hardly anysoftware that the older machines ran.

finally:

10 print "enter your name:" ;
20 input a$ ;
30 print "your name is " a$ ;
40 goto 30

or something like that.

WillyB · Jan 18, 2001, 02:34 PM

I am STILL enjoying some of my old Apple ][ stuff right here on my Beige G3!... Those of you who still own some Apple ][ & Apple ][/GS titles will enjoy getting your hands on "Bernie To The Rescue"; the ultimate Apple ][GS emulator on the market. I still am able to run my old copies of Softdisk and PrintShop and many others. Get this... the emulator allows you to have up to (18?) virtual 3.5" drives and still uses the 3.5" drive that accompanies the pre- B/W G3's & older Macs... (sorry to those of you who have no 3.5" drive anymore!)
Check out "Bernie To The Rescue" at: http://www.magnet.ch/emutech
It's well worth the shareware fee. I've been using it for a little over 7 months now.

denim · Jan 18, 2001, 03:39 PM

Can Bernie play LEMONADE?

WillyB · Jan 19, 2001, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by denim:
Can Bernie play LEMONADE?

I'm not sure. I'm not familiar with the game. Is it copy protected? Does it run on 5.25" disk? Bernie can run 5.25" Disk IMAGES If it can be made into a disk image, Bernie should be able to handle it...(as long as the image doesn't have a copy protection scheme.)

WillyB · Jan 26, 2001, 09:49 PM

Is there an area on MacNN Forums that deals with Emulation Programs? I Love "Bernie To The Rescue" for Apple ][GS emulation. Does anyone else here use this program?

Jan 29, 2001, 01:25 AM

I have a working Apple //e on my desk. It's just nice to work and play with sometimes, but of course, I really need a (Power) Mac for most things. Bernie must be the best Apple II emulator. I'm waiting to see if they'll have a Mac OS X version. Come visit my site below for The Apple II Beginner's Guide, if you like.

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Gabriel Morales http://GabrielMorales.net/

bookrat · Jan 29, 2001, 07:07 AM

I'm trying to get a Lisa of a friend at the moment. I just laid my hands on a PowerBook 160 though I need to get a DC adaptor from the local Tandy store to power this thing up.

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denim · Jan 29, 2001, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by WillyB:
Is it copy protected?

Nope, it came with the system. It was an Applesoft program.

MacAgent · Jan 29, 2001, 06:37 PM

Aren't there like 10,000 Lisas in a dump in Utah? I'd like to have a collection of every Apple computer ever made.

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d

bookrat · Jan 30, 2001, 10:05 PM

Erm...MacAgent...bookrat => Australia, many Lisa's => Utah. I don't think so

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MacAgent · Jan 31, 2001, 01:28 AM

buahahahaha

I actually was asking anyone who knew.

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d

Feb 1, 2001, 02:52 PM

There ARE a bunch of Lisas in a dump in the Southwest US someplace (I don't know if it's Utah, though). In the recent book by Owen Linzmayer (don't remember the title, sorry) he talks about it, I think. They buried them in a secure landfill rather than have to sell them and deal with the aftermarket support and hardware problems.

Feb 5, 2001, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by mike one:
well that's all my mind can conjure up at the moment, all i know for sure is that apple's rocked, except for the apple iigs which wouldn't run hardly anysoftware that the older machines ran.

The Apple IIgs ran/runs the vast majority of Apple II software through emulation. The Apple IIgs was to the Apple II like the first PowerMac was to the Macintosh. Except it just ended there...

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Gabriel Morales http://GabrielMorales.net/

lothar56 · Feb 6, 2001, 05:17 PM

check out apple-history.com for all kinds of info on every mac made.

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I see stupid people... They're everywhere... And they're all using Windows!

Feb 19, 2001, 11:39 PM

O.K.- I have a copy of lemonade. Give me a week or so, and i'll put it on a 3.5" disk and make it into a disk image that you can use on Bernie. Also, the Apple IIGS (I have one) ran almost all older Apple II software just fine. I can only think of one or two things that wouldn't work right. For the record: I have an Apple IIc- I wish they'd make another machine with that white case! with the original 9"green screen- still works! we have the aforementioned IIGS, I was, up until about a month ago, using an LCIII, which was upgraded about as far as you can go (7.6.1 really slows it down, though!) and now have a 7600/120. As for those who were talking about those older games, I still have a few of those- like Montezuma's Revenge, Mario, H.E.R.O., and quite a few others. Also, I am a poor college student- anyone with a spare G3 sitting around- I do accept donations!

Seriously, though, if anyone wants LEMONADE, email me at [email protected].

spauldingg · Feb 20, 2001, 01:53 AM

Hey ValVashon
I just got the same critter on eBay last week, great deal...
I got it up to system 7.5.5 with ramdoubler, and got several browsers going (including cyberdog!!!) I'd love to find out how you got that sucker connected over a cell phone...
please get in touch...
[email protected]

benschilke · Feb 20, 2001, 11:52 PM

All this talk of Apple ][s gives me a hankerin' to dig up an Apple ][g that my old man has in his basement. Unfortunately, I think the monitor is a bit on the fritz, but it's an original, and the computer comes with an additional 5 1/4 external floppy. Buy the way, he also has some Apple ][gs that he's trying to get rid of (for a price).

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[This message has been edited by benschilke (edited 02-20-2001).]

jarends · Feb 22, 2001, 04:43 PM

Why do all of you want to use apple IIe's again? I used them back when they were useful, but I can't image any purpose for one of the things now.

I don't really even think the things have any charm. They're big and clunky and just old. There's nothing they can do that you can't do on a mac or a pc.

I keep finding the buggers in closets and under tables and I just keep chucking them in the dumpster.There's only so much space for technology.

TheJoshu · Feb 25, 2001, 12:31 PM

My friend created www.apple-history.com, which I've found is an invaluable resource. If you want info on code names, types/numbers of ports, or photos, descriptions and prices on every Apple and Mac between 1979 and now, take a look.

(Note: I'm blind, apparently. I just noticed that someone else mentioned Apple-History in a previous posting. Sorry!)

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Graphite iMac DV/SE (400MHz, 128 MB RAM, DVD, 13GB HD)
Coming Up Next: 500MHz Titanium PowerBook G4!

[This message has been edited by TheJoshu (edited 02-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by TheJoshu (edited 02-25-2001).]

JRSTRONG · Mar 2, 2001, 03:53 AM

Not that I didn't log my fair share of hours on Apple II systems, but they are completely outmoded for modern computing needs.

My mother still uses a "financial" program on a very ancient Apple //c because she is familar with it! She won't "upgrade" to anything new?

Jeff

denim · Mar 2, 2001, 10:58 AM

Why should she, if it works and does what she needs?

Tristrami · Mar 2, 2001, 12:50 PM

I remember an old apple // game called "dogfight." It was a game like asteroids but had a multi-player option. Anyone know if there's asimulator or an updated mac version?

WillyB · Mar 3, 2001, 09:39 AM

Speaking of Apple ]['s...
Remember sitting up half the night, typing in AppleSoft programs from "Nibble" magazines? OMG... It was so frustrating, yet facinating at the same time! When they worked, you would jump for joy!

Then I got a little smarter... purchased a "Quickie Hand Scanner" and scanned in the Nibble programs and EXEC'ed the resulting text files. Worked sometimes ;-)

tullamore · Mar 4, 2001, 04:30 PM

I have a working Apple IIe (with color monitor :-) ) and in fact you can still find them at our universitys suprlus auction, I also have a working an old Mac Plus with an external 20 MEG hard drive. Did anyone remember that there are sound ports on the back of the Apple IIe that you can connect to a regular tape player and use it as storage?

olePigeon · Mar 10, 2001, 02:55 AM

My friend succesfully networked to Apple ///es via the joystick port.

Everyone knows that Ultima V & Rescue Raiders are the two best games. Although Pinball Construction Set and Dragon Wars are both pretty good.

WillyB · Mar 21, 2001, 08:34 AM

Apple ][GS Emulator "Bernie ][ The Rescue� " is now at ver. 3.0 & ALL features will be available to the user, whether it is registered or not. (Register anyway, it's only fair!); the fee is small. It's really cool to have a ][GS up & running on the Mac. You can get this latest version of Bernie ][ The Rescue� 3 at: http://www.magnet.ch/emutech

TheGreatButcher · Apr 5, 2001, 10:43 PM

I am a Mac user now, but that's only because Apple killed the Apple II. I remember as a child waiting for my IIGS to load software and I remember every distinct whir and click of the 3.5 drive for every piece of software I had. That was back when speed wasn't everything

I remember upgrading from 256k of RAM to 1MB - that was a big deal back in the day!

Hard drive? Apple II users didn't need one! That's why we had 5.25 floppies!

If given the choice for the world I would be gladly willing to ditch the power of my Powerbook G4, the internet, and everything else too complicated in a computer to go back to the simplicity of the Apple II. We didn't need a fancy GUI in the form of Windoze or Mac OS to get work done.

drewman · Apr 10, 2001, 01:23 AM

Might I recommend a flavor of Linux for the gentleman who needs no GUI?

You could play with a two 3.5 inch drive system running on old Pentium or Mac II getting the kernel and all device drivers to fit on one floppy and keep the other open for data.

drewman