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iWork '09
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slugslugslug
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Jan 6, 2009, 05:45 PM
 
Well, I figure somebody had to start this thread, out of consideration for Phil's feelings. This seems like a pretty solid update, and while nothing was mind-blowing, a few things make it seem like the first version of iWork really worth purchasing:
  • Error bars in Numbers charts!
  • Endnote support in Pages.
  • Full-screen mode in Pages.
  • iWork.com, maybe…
The last part seems intriguing, but its usefulness depends on getting groups of colleagues/collaborators to join. Also, it's going to a pay service, but they haven't mentioned the price. Honestly, anything greater than zero might kill it. I can't imagine trying to get someone to bother with something I've sent via iWork.com if they're not already a member. They'll just say, "dude, put this on Google Docs where I can edit it for free". Maybe they can get it a little momentum if they offer it free to MobileMe users, but that doesn't seem likely.

I think a lot of science-y/academic types will be as excited as me by the error bars and EndNote integration. I liked using Pages to write papers but don't want to try to manually type bibliographies, so I wound up settling for Word (I actually didn't need EndNote, since my reference manager, Papers, can export directly to Word 2008's citation library). I'm definitely going to give the EndNote/Pages combination a try.

I don't type equations that much, but I'm sure a some physics/chem/engineering types (the ones who aren't addicted to LaTeX) are really stoked about the MathType.

It looks like editing Office documents is still a matter of importing into a native format and re-exporting, so iWork may be a pain for files that you send back and forth a lot with Office users. But if you don't do a lot of that, iWork could be a good full-time office suite.

I have nothing to say about Keynote features, since I never use any PowerPoint transitions/animations other than "appear". I'll certainly give it a whirl next time I have to present, though.
     
Person Man
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Jan 6, 2009, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by slugslugslug View Post
The last part seems intriguing, but its usefulness depends on getting groups of colleagues/collaborators to join. Also, it's going to a pay service, but they haven't mentioned the price. Honestly, anything greater than zero might kill it. I can't imagine trying to get someone to bother with something I've sent via iWork.com if they're not already a member. They'll just say, "dude, put this on Google Docs where I can edit it for free". Maybe they can get it a little momentum if they offer it free to MobileMe users, but that doesn't seem likely.
How compelling it will be will depend on the feature set. Assuming Apple learned anything from the MobileMe fiasco, this has the potential to blow Google Docs out of the water, if it is designed well. Free does not always equal better.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Apple will probably charge $79-99 a year for iWork.com ($59-79 a year if you buy it on Amazon)

I have nothing to say about Keynote features, since I never use any PowerPoint transitions/animations other than "appear". I'll certainly give it a whirl next time I have to present, though.
Definitely! Ever since Keynote came out in 2004 (I think) I have used it instead of PowerPoint for any presentations I have to do. And I always get one or two people who come up afterward and say, "I've seen many PowerPoint presentations but yours didn't look like any PowerPoint presentation I've ever seen before! Howdjadoit?"
     
JKT
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Jan 6, 2009, 10:35 PM
 
Using Keynote purely for the quality of its templates alone is worth it, regardless of any other fancy effects you decide to use or not. They just look vastly superior to anything PowerPoint offers (or offered, maybe they've improved in Office '08... I haven't bothered to look).

I would hazard that it will only be the person who is posting the content to iWork.com that will have to pay anything - collaborators who are just commenting on or downloading files are likely to be able to do so for no charge (or at least, I would hope they would otherwise it is going to be dead in the water as a service before it even gets going).
     
ibook_steve
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Jan 6, 2009, 10:36 PM
 
The main problem I have with Keynote (which I would use every day if I could; I still purchased iLife '08 even though I've barely used it) is the Powerpoint compatibility. Unfortunately, I work at an all PC company and presentations must be available to everybody. The ppt export from Keynote has gotten better over the years, but from my personal testing, it's still not to the point where I can be sure that all objects will be placed correctly and all animations will be compatible.

I wish Keynote could edit ppt files directly instead of requiring export. That way, you could work with ppt and have maximum compatibility with Powerpoint, while still being able to create Keynote files and have all the extra features that are available from Keynote. And Keynote is just such a joy to use over Powerpoint.

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JKT
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Jan 6, 2009, 10:38 PM
 
Fwiw, unless they just didn't mention it, I find it criminal that they haven't added Open Document Format support in this version (it was bad enough that it was missing from '08). Instead they push export support for those damned proprietary Office formats again.
     
Jordan
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Jan 7, 2009, 07:06 AM
 
One of the biggest missing features for me in Numbers was PivotTables.

Is the new Categories implementation a substitute?

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JHromadka
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Jan 7, 2009, 02:07 PM
 
FYI, you can download a full trial here.
     
Maflynn
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Jan 7, 2009, 02:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by JKT View Post
I find it criminal that they haven't added Open Document Format support in this version (it was bad enough that it was missing from '08). Instead they push export support for those damned proprietary Office formats again.
hyperbole aside, I'm not surprised nor am I disappointed. Few companies embrace an open format in lieu of their proprietary format. To be honest, I could care less about what format it uses just as long as the application does what I want it to do
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TheoCryst
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Jan 7, 2009, 06:03 PM
 
Here's a fun tidbit no one's really picked up on yet: all three apps finally save their documents as a single file, as opposed to a package. That means no more headaches when trying to email a Pages (or Keynote or Numbers) document, only to find out that the email client you use considers it a folder instead of a file.

Now if only I could figure out a way to easily change all my old documents... *sigh*.

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
TETENAL
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Jan 7, 2009, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Here's a fun tidbit no one's really picked up on yet: all three apps finally save their documents as a single file, as opposed to a package.
Bummer. That's a lot less Time Machine-friendly.
     
TheoCryst
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Jan 7, 2009, 10:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Bummer. That's a lot less Time Machine-friendly.
Eh, a single document is usually small enough that there's essentially no difference between being saved as a package versus as a file. I'd say the numerous other improvements to having real files outweighs the rare occasion where a huge document is an issue for Time Machine.

At least, that's my humble opinion.

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slugslugslug  (op)
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Jan 7, 2009, 10:57 PM
 
I'd have to agree with TheoCryst about the non-folderishness of the files being a plus.

As far as converting '08 to '09 files, have you tried seeing if you could automate it with AppleScript? I've downloaded the new version, but I'm not sure if I want to start my 30 day trial period just yet, so I haven't tested that possibility yet…
     
Art Vandelay
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Jan 7, 2009, 11:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by slugslugslug View Post
...but I'm not sure if I want to start my 30 day trial period just yet, so I haven't tested that possibility yet…
It's very easy to extend the trial period. You just need to know what file(s) to tinker with.
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AKcrab
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Jan 8, 2009, 12:22 AM
 
They changed the Keynote icon.

Still can't lock/protect a cell in numbers.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 8, 2009, 03:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
hyperbole aside, I'm not surprised nor am I disappointed. Few companies embrace an open format in lieu of their proprietary format. To be honest, I could care less about what format it uses just as long as the application does what I want it to do
Suppose one of the things you wanted to do is to work with files created by the second-most-widespread (and growing) Office suite on the planet?
     
JKT
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Jan 8, 2009, 07:47 AM
 
...or send highly formatted files to an institution that doesn't support proprietary file or non-editable formats? The continued absence of ODF support in iWork is a pita.
     
Eug
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Jan 9, 2009, 09:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by slugslugslug View Post
I'd have to agree with TheoCryst about the non-folderishness of the files being a plus.
I agree.

I used to have to save 2nd copies of all my Keynote presentations as zips because on non-Mac machines, Keynote file backups would end up getting 'exposed' as packages. Very confusing, and sometimes the files would no longer work once they were transferred back to a Mac.
     
TETENAL
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Jan 9, 2009, 10:01 AM
 
The preferences contain an option to continue saving files as packages.

And by the way: you can actually unzip the new iWork files and they become a package that still can be opened. Zipping an older iWork '08 file and changing the extension of the archive to .pages does not work though.
     
Eug
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Jan 9, 2009, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
The preferences contain an option to continue saving files as packages.

And by the way: you can actually unzip the new iWork files and they become a package that still can be opened. Zipping an older iWork '08 file and changing the extension of the archive to .pages does not work though.
Interesting. So if I understand you correctly, the new files are actually just zipped up packages, with file unzipping/zipping occuring during file load/save?

If so, I wonder if the reason for this is specifically to address the issue I was running into above.
     
TheoCryst
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Jan 9, 2009, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Interesting. So if I understand you correctly, the new files are actually just zipped up packages, with file unzipping/zipping occuring during file load/save?

If so, I wonder if the reason for this is specifically to address the issue I was running into above.
Probably. Interestingly enough, they aren't the first to do this: Office 2007/2008's new file formats (.docx, .xlsx, .pptx) and all the ODF file formats are the same way: a folder inside a zip archive. Try it: rename any of them with a .zip and you can unarchive them and see the raw XML that is your document.

(Disclaimer: I worked for MacBU this past summer, and will be working there full-time starting in June, so I'm allowed to be a bit of a nerd about these things.)

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
   
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