[ajprice]

Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8 for fall release, incompatible with current devices -- Engadget
Microsoft confirms no upgrade path to Windows Phone 8, unveils 7.8 for legacy devices -- Engadget

Well right off the back of the Surface tablets, they've now announced the Windows Phone 8 OS.

The good news for Windows Phoners - the new OS will support higher res screens, multi core processors and SD card slots.

The bad news - There is no upgrade to 8 from any current Windows Phone. None. And OS 8 apps won't be backwards compatible with 7.x phones.

The trying to make up for it news - there will be a version 7.8 for current phones to get a bit of the new system like the updated start screen tiles.

So if anyone's JUST bought a Nokia Lumia 900 top of the range phone, go and find the receipt for it.

[ort888]

Stuff like this come backs to bite you.

Sends a bad message to consumers...

[Spheric Harlot]

Oh jeez.

[Eug]

Bye bye Nokia, it was nice knowing ya.

P.S. I thought Apple was bad with its forced obsolescence of old hardware (eg. No Siri or turn by turn on iPhone 4), but Android and Windows Phone have proven to be way worse for this.

That said, I'm still interested in getting a 7" Android ICS/Jelly Bean tablet, just because Apple refuses to make a 7" tablet and a tablet with a flash card slot. The included MKV playback support is nice too.

[mduell]

One major software update (7.5) since WP7 release... huh, just like the Gen 1 iPads.

[freudling]

Oh the media. Blow it up. How many times has Apple antiquated past hardware with new stuff.

Lots. Specially coming out of the early PowerBook days into the OS X when it was getting going.

And even iOS upgrades. iOS 3 was a major release and ran like crap on the iPhone 1 and even the iPhone 2 because they didn't have enough RAM.

And iOS 5? Sluggish on the iPhone 4 around the office. It's much faster on the iPhone 4S. Or the fact that there have been several times where only a subset of features are supported in relation to a new iOS release on non-brand new hardware.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Oh the media. Blow it up. How many times has Apple antiquated past hardware with new stuff.

this soon?

Never.

Not in the 23 years I've been dealing with them.

[Spheric Harlot]

[Eug]

Best advertising campaign ever.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

this soon?

Never.

Not in the 23 years I've been dealing with them.

It's been 2 years since WP launched Spheric. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the Nokia Lumia marks the first release of it.

We're talking about an OS that runs on multiple phones from different manufacturers.

And a good many Android phones are essentially non-upgradeable as well.

Honestly, the media is the media. This is actually a good thing. It means the OS is moving forward. They're bold enough to say forget the past with this rewrite. We've got something now that supports multiple cores, has optimized GPU performance, etc.

The next Lumia, if Nokia is around long enough, will have multiple-cores, a much better GPU, etc. Right now all WP are very limited hardware wise because that's all the OS would support. It's very much like iOS in the early days. Memba when iOS didn't even have an App Store or allow what has ended up to be shitty multi-tasking? Gotta start somewhere.

Do I think WP will succeed? I have no idea. But I don't think it will take much away from iOS. And I do agree with some in the media 'rolls eyes' that MS seems like they have no idea what they're doing in mobile with the recent surface thing. I think they're full of old, stodgy tech nerds that copy people and are living off of their Office and Windows empire. That their transition into the new age looks terrible. I like WP mind you... I'm referring to Windows Desktop and Office... but at the end of the day iOS is my numba 1.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

It's been 2 years since WP launched Spheric. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the Nokia Lumia marks the first release of it.

We're talking about an OS that runs on multiple phones from different manufacturers.

NONE of the phones currently sold with the very latest software will be upgradeable to the next version.

I'm sorry, but how on Earth does that compare to iOS, freudling?

That's just totally ****ed up.

NOBODY will buy a Windows phone now, until the first devices are released running WP8. And even then, buyers will know that the phones possibly have no potential beyond what they can do at the time, as they may or may not be updated.

This is Microsoft kicking the legs out under its own platform just as it's started running on its own. You have to wonder who the hell shat in their heads.

Originally Posted by freudling 

And a good many Android phones are essentially non-upgradeable as well.

Yes, and that's long been one of the primary criticisms of the Android platform, as you well know.

It has just been made clear that the only smartphone platform on the planet that can be trusted to update your phone is iOS.

[ajprice]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Oh the media. Blow it up. How many times has Apple antiquated past hardware with new stuff.

As Spheric says, there is a difference between Apple dropping support for older iPhones and what MS are doing here. iOS 4 still supported the 3G, iOS 5 and 6 support the 3GS. This is the equivalent of Apple showing iOS 6, saying it won't run on any current or past iPhone and is for the iPhone 5 which isn't out yet but will be shown in a few months. Knowing that, why would you buy a current phone?

They are killing the Windows Phone in its current state until the new system is released, with no upgrade or back compatibility between the current and future phones.

[Spheric Harlot]

So it just occurred to me...

Microsoft planned a whole new product platform, partnered with OEMs to create reference hardware designs, pretty much took over the (former) number one phone manufacturer (Nokia), and...didn't manage to plan for upgradeability? At all?

Again, WTF?

What does this say about the platform?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

NONE of the phones currently sold with the very latest software will be upgradeable to the next version.

I'm sorry, but how on Earth does that compare to iOS, freudling?

That's just totally ****ed up.

NOBODY will buy a Windows phone now, until the first devices are released running WP8.

I bought an Apple laptop and 1 year later it was antiquated because OS X didn't support it. I bought an iPhone 2 to upgrade from my iPhone 1 and realized that iOS 3 wasn't able to run on it because half the features didn't work and it was slow as crap. So did many others. So both my phones weren't able to run the latest software, and that was just 6 months after I bought the iPhone 2. Yet, you get locked into 2-3 year cell contracts and the phone ends up dated before the contract is up.

Sorry, but this is exactly the same thing.

You want me to go on and on?

The iPad 2 won't support Siri.

MS is moving forward, but go ahead and hit the media line and keep repeating what you're reading in tech Blogs.

WP needs new phones, not ones that aren't selling. We all know the definition of insanity: the only thing I praise MS here for is being bold and changing things. Because what they're doing isn't working.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

As Spheric says, there is a difference between Apple dropping support for older iPhones and what MS are doing here. iOS 4 still supported the 3G, iOS 5 and 6 support the 3GS. This is the equivalent of Apple showing iOS 6, saying it won't run on any current or past iPhone and is for the iPhone 5 which isn't out yet but will be shown in a few months. Knowing that, why would you buy a current phone?

They are killing the Windows Phone in its current state until the new system is released, with no upgrade or back compatibility between the current and future phones.

The only difference is that you *might be* a slightly delusional fanboy. Please, I don't mean this in any bad way but anyone who charges other companies with leaving old hardware behind yet defends Apple in such a way that Apple has never left hardware behind in the face of new software is patently delusional.

I could, within a short period of time, list a host of things. Remember Quartz? OS X had that graphics acceleration that left so many behind. I mean, any one of us could write a book over being left behind by Apple with major new technologies they launch.

[chabig]

I see a big difference. Apple deprecates older hardware. Only Microsoft deprecates "current" hardware.

[ajprice]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The only difference is that you *might be* a slightly delusional fanboy. Please, I don't mean this in any bad way but anyone who charges other companies with leaving old hardware behind yet defends Apple in such a way that Apple has never left hardware behind in the face of new software is patently delusional.

You're still not seeing it . MS aren't just leaving old hardware behind, they are leaving current hardware behind. There's no deprecation, there's a cut off. Deprecation is what normally happens ie. an OS still supporting current and recent hardware. What you're talking about with Quartz and iOS is deprecation.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

You're still not seeing it . MS aren't just leaving old hardware behind, they are leaving current hardware behind. There's no deprecation, there's a cut off. Deprecation is what normally happens ie. an OS still supporting current and recent hardware. What you're talking about with Quartz and iOS is deprecation.

What's current? My 3 month old Nokia Lumia? I'm probably the only person on this forum who actually owns and uses a Windows Phone.

And when does something stop being "current"? And the way you make it sound... MS and Nokia are dumping the whole thing?

And WHY isn't WP8 going to run on my Lumia? Why didn't my Lombard get DVD support in OS X? Why didn't my iBook get Quartz support? Why didn't my iPhone 3 get multi-tasking? Why why why...

Because life moves on, and choices have to be made. And when is WP8 going to be launched?

Answers, and lots of them:

The updated version of the [WP] is headed to phones this fall, however it won’t be headed to any existing Windows Phone devices simply because those device’s hardware won’t be able to handle the features set coming in the update.

That news was particularly upsetting for Nokia Lumia 900 owners. The flagship Windows Phone launched just a few months ago, and news that it wasn’t going to be updated to the next full version of Windows Phone left many customers unhappy.

Although the phone won’t be getting Windows Phone 8, Nokia doesn’t plan to abandon Lumia owners when Windows 8 hits the streets.

“Nokia and Microsoft are going to continue to support our current Lumia portfolio with some really cool stuff,” a Nokia representative told Mashable. “The most visible is the upcoming Windows Phone 7.8 update – which will bring a number of Windows 8 features, most notably the new, more flexible start screen, to the current portfolio of Windows Phone 7.5 devices.”

I am actually running a Beta of WP 7.8 on my Lumia and I agree with the author:

And the 7.8 update will essentially make an existing Windows Phone look and feel like a Windows Phone 8 device.

http://mashable.com/2012/06/22/nokia...e/#71133Unique

I got a ton of new features and it looks and feels like WP8. Frankly, I'm impressed with what MS has been able to do here.

And:

"Windows Phone 7.8 may stick around, and even power new phone hardware, long after Windows Phone 8 arrives on the market."

New devices running Windows Phone 7.8 will arrive in emerging markets even after WP8 launches � Unwired View

And there you have it. I'm sorry but most people simply don't know what they're talking about on this forum about this, as well as the "attack MS pundits" in the media.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by mduell 

One major software update (7.5) since WP7 release... huh, just like the Gen 1 iPads.

At least most iOS software that comes out after iOS 6 will still work with your Gen 1 iPad

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I bought an Apple laptop and 1 year later it was antiquated because OS X didn't support it.

Bullshit.

Which laptop was this? (Edit: You mention the Lombard. That works up until 10.3.9. DVD playback isn't supported, true, for whatever hardware reason, but it ran the latest OS for about five years.)

Originally Posted by freudling 

I bought an iPhone 2 to upgrade from my iPhone 1 and realized that iOS 3 wasn't able to run on it because half the features didn't work and it was slow as crap. So did many others. So both my phones weren't able to run the latest software, and that was just 6 months after I bought the iPhone 2.

What's the iPhone 2? the 3G?

The only feature the iPhone 1 didn't get that the 3G got was assisted GPS. That's a hardware feature.

The features neither the 3G nor the iPhone 1 got, that were added to the 3GS in 3.0, were also hardware-dependent, with the exception of Game Center.

iOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Athens]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I bought an Apple laptop and 1 year later it was antiquated because OS X didn't support it. I bought an iPhone 2 to upgrade from my iPhone 1 and realized that iOS 3 wasn't able to run on it because half the features didn't work and it was slow as crap. So did many others. So both my phones weren't able to run the latest software, and that was just 6 months after I bought the iPhone 2. Yet, you get locked into 2-3 year cell contracts and the phone ends up dated before the contract is up.

Sorry, but this is exactly the same thing.

You want me to go on and on?

The iPad 2 won't support Siri.

MS is moving forward, but go ahead and hit the media line and keep repeating what you're reading in tech Blogs.

WP needs new phones, not ones that aren't selling. We all know the definition of insanity: the only thing I praise MS here for is being bold and changing things. Because what they're doing isn't working.

OK look at this as a developer

If your software was finished for Windows Mobile 7 which was a new platform change, how upset would you be having to redevelop it again for Windows Mobile 8. As a developer if you support the Windows platform you must be concerned with what this move will do for consumer confidence. Its not the first time either. Windows Mobile 6.5 was a dead end and WM 7 was supposed to be the new future platform. Now its a dead platform that still has limited software and now all the developers will have to redevelop for WM 8 which is NOT going to happen because WM is not going to get traction.

I have been ranking the platforms as follows
iOS - First Choice by far
Windows Mobile 7
Blackberry
Android

I have no choice but to professional advise my clients
iOS
Blackberry
Android
Windows Mobile (Don't touch with a ten foot pole) Not to be considered at all

Android would be 2nd place if it was not for the problems with Phone Manufacturer updates, that then require Carrier updates before users can apply updates.

For developers I would rank iOS and Android first followed by Blackberry and again would not bother at all with Windows Mobile period.

Correction the site I was reading that said 7x apps wouldn't run on Windows Mobile 8 was in error

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Lots of stuff in bold

Blah blah blah.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Athens 

At least most iOS software that comes out after iOS 6 will still work with your Gen 1 iPad

Sure, if developers don't want to use any of the new APIs. The same can be true for WP.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Bullshit.

Which laptop was this? (Edit: You mention the Lombard. That works up until 10.3.9. DVD playback isn't supported, true, for whatever hardware reason, but it ran the latest OS for about five years.)


What's the iPhone 2? the 3G?

The only feature the iPhone 1 didn't get that the 3G got was assisted GPS. That's a hardware feature.

The features neither the 3G nor the iPhone 1 got, that were added to the 3GS in 3.0, were also hardware-dependent, with the exception of Game Center.

iOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apple antiquating its stuff:

• Aperture not supported on many machines, even some then currently shipping ones.
• iPhone 3G doesn't support multi-tasking in iOS 4. Just 2 years after it's on the market, it's barely able to even run iOS 4.
  Multitasking comes to iPhone OS 4.0 -- but not to the iPhone 3G -- Engadget
• iPhone 4 doesn't include Siri
• iPad 2 won't include Siri in iOS 6 neither will it get FaceTime over 3G, neither will it have dictation, among other things.
• Original iPhone, after just 2 years on the market, gets the shaft with only having some of the new features of iOS 3. No MMS notably.
• Apple doesn't support DVD decoder cards in OS X, faces class action lawsuit over it.
• Quartz Extreme, Apple's core graphics layer driving much of the improved performance of OS X in 10.2 knocks support off of many Macs, including some then currently shipping ones. nVidia card or an ATI Radeon card were required at a min. of 16 MB.

On and on.

[Spheric Harlot]

Your point?

Microsoft's planning for the Windows Phone platform is stellar, obsoleting reference hardware and their own primary partner's hardware shortly after release was the plan from the start, and it all compares favorably to how Apple has been treating the iPhone line (we're NOT talking about the Mac here—this is the Windows PHONE 8 thread), and there's absolutely no harm done here?

Seriously?

If that's your point, it's IMO indefensible, and I suggest you back down now, rather than throwing up a whole bunch more meaningless details in hopes of being a "winner" by points, rather than on concept.

If that's NOT your point, I'd appreciate it if you tried to make it clear what your point is, preferably using less than ten sentences, no more than two font sizes, and not so much bold text.

Okay?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Your point?

Microsoft's planning for the Windows Phone platform is stellar, obsoleting reference hardware and their own primary partner's hardware shortly after release was the plan from the start, and it all compares favorably to how Apple has been treating the iPhone line (we're NOT talking about the Mac here—this is the Windows PHONE 8 thread), and there's absolutely no harm done here?

Seriously?

If that's your point, it's IMO indefensible, and I suggest you back down now, rather than throwing up a whole bunch more meaningless details in hopes of being a "winner" by points, rather than on concept.

If that's NOT your point, I'd appreciate it if you tried to make it clear what your point is, preferably using less than ten sentences, no more than two font sizes, and not so much bold text.

Okay?

Fact: MS is continuing to support current hardware with WP, which includes WP 7.8 that looks and feels like WP8, and includes several WP8 features.

WP8 will, like new iOSes, have additional features only available on the latest hardware.

Nothing wrong with this at all. It's the media machine. That's it.

I'm blown away by all the new stuff in 7.8 over my 7.5.

The bottom line on here is nobody actually uses WP and isn't part of the ecosystem, yet you're all speaking for us users.

Makes perfect sense.

[Spheric Harlot]

Thank you.

That really wasn't so hard, was it?

As opposed to all the pointless blathering and shouting up above?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Sure, if developers don't want to use any of the new APIs. The same can be true for WP.

--> most <--

[Athens]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Apple antiquating its stuff:

• Aperture not supported on many machines, even some then currently shipping ones.
• iPhone 3G doesn't support multi-tasking in iOS 4. Just 2 years after it's on the market, it's barely able to even run iOS 4.
  Multitasking comes to iPhone OS 4.0 -- but not to the iPhone 3G -- Engadget
• iPhone 4 doesn't include Siri
• iPad 2 won't include Siri in iOS 6 neither will it get FaceTime over 3G, neither will it have dictation, among other things.
• Original iPhone, after just 2 years on the market, gets the shaft with only having some of the new features of iOS 3. No MMS notably.
• Apple doesn't support DVD decoder cards in OS X, faces class action lawsuit over it.
• Quartz Extreme, Apple's core graphics layer driving much of the improved performance of OS X in 10.2 knocks support off of many Macs, including some then currently shipping ones. nVidia card or an ATI Radeon card were required at a min. of 16 MB.

On and on.

If you buy a 2 slice toaster will you be upset next year when the same company releases a 4 slice toaster.... Hardware has limits, what is top of the line today is not tomorrow. You are missing the major point, even though the hardware can not make use of all the features of the software updates, the fact it gets software updates period is the point.