[Kerrigan]

The Neocon idea, as far as I understand it, depends on the spreading of democracy and the continuation of American primacy in the world. So far, neocon policy has resulted in the (likely) creation of a theocracy in Iraq, jacked up oil costs, a national guard spread too thin to handle emergencies, and a president who is completely out of touch with America.

Do you still buy the neocon agenda? Do you really think it has a future beyond Bush's premiership?

[RAILhead]

Since I posted here, do I get to add the post counts FROM ALL THE OTHER THREADS JUST LIKE THIS we've had to sit through over the last 2 years?

[Kerrigan]

I guess that is a "no"?

[vmarks]

Freedom and democracy are indeed the future for humanity, and spreading freedom and democracy is the only way to guarantee security for anyone.

[spauldingg]

love it. barbed wire on a book about freedom. says it all. sometimes you can tell a book by its cover.

[Millennium]

The government is being decided on in a democratic manner; if they don't want their democracy to look like ours then that is their business. Most of the oil price issues were unforeseeable until it was too late to do much about them, and have as much to do with domestic policy as foreign. The national guard is not under the control of the federal government; each state has its own. As for the President being "completely out of touch with America", that is debatable.

In other words, you're 0-4 on facts, and 2-2 at best on opinions. Nice.

[mojo2]

Seven refineries were knocked out of commission thanks to Katrina, but they can be repaired. What would we do if there were no supplies coming from the Middle East?

Gov. Bush Warns Residents Of Gas Shortages

POSTED: 4:06 pm EDT August 29, 2005
UPDATED: 10:25 pm EDT August 29, 2005
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Gov. Jeb Bush warned Florida could see shortages of gasoline in coming days as a result of Hurricane Katrina.
The hurricane roared through the nation's major gas refineries and shut down production of thousands of oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico.
Bush said Florida has worked with the U.S. Department of Energy and the Petroleum Industry to bring significant supplies of gasoline into the state's ports.
But David Mica of the Florida Petroleum Council said it will take time before oil rigs and refineries are operating again.
Bush blames oil companies for keeping lower inventories than they have in the past and that makes shortages more likely. But Mica says the oil industry has produced record amounts of petroleum each of the last three years and that global demand has also increased to record levels.
Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.
Previous Stories:

This is from an ARIZONA gas station.

EDIT: Just heard on CNN that we've lost TEN REFINERIES and 1.5 MILLION BBLS PER DAY.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

love it. barbed wire on a book about freedom. says it all. sometimes you can tell a book by its cover.

love it. I know you're uninformed. The author of that book was a political prisoner in the Soviet Union. He knows what it is to be a dissident.

Rather than make a snap judgement by what some cover artist does, do yourself a favor and read.

[lil'babykitten]

If the situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate the neo-conservative idea will have been dealt a fatal blow. It's this ideology that has undermined America's approach to state-building in Iraq by suggesting that the war in Iraq would be very quick and only a small number of US troops would be needed to restore order. Putting ideology above practicality is a recipe for disaster.

[von Wrangell]

You can't force freedom upon a people. We have a couple of hundreds of years of history to show us that. Such a shame that history isn't Americans strongest aspect (Foreign history that is).

The neo-con foreign policy was a failure from it's beginning, is a failure today and will be a failure tomorrow.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by lil'babykitten

If the situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate the neo-conservative idea will have been dealt a fatal blow. It's this ideology that has undermined America's approach to state-building in Iraq by suggesting that the war in Iraq would be very quick and only a small number of US troops would be needed to restore order. Putting ideology above practicality is a recipe for disaster.

[lil'babykitten]

My what a convincing counter-argument you make!

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by lil'babykitten

My what a convincing counter-argument you make!

Thank you. I hesitated using it on you as it is quite devastating. I know you are undoubtedly reeling from it's effect and I only HOPE you have seen and now fully understand the folly of resistance!

[Troll]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Seven refineries were knocked out of commission thanks to Katrina, but they can be repaired. What would we do if there were no supplies coming from the Middle East?

We'd all be f*cked if no more oil came out of the Middle East. Everyone knows that. The question is whether the New American Century approach of using the military to extend American hegemony is the right way of ensuring a steady supply from the region. I would say that killing Arabs is not going to win us friends or influence in the region and empirically, it would appear that this is indeed the case.

Now let's look at the implementation of the policy in Iraq. First off, we realised that US hegemony is not all that hegemonous. The US military reaches its limits rather quickly. The action in Iraq on the back of Afghanistan really stretched the US Army. The US's ability to project power elsewhere is virtually non-existent because of a war in a third world country impoverished by years of sanctions and war. Rather than welcoming the US with open arms and flipping over to democracy, funneling oil to the saviours, the US, the Iraqis and Arabs from all over the region have responded to US foreign policy by fighting an insurgency against which is now costing the US economy more than Vietnam cost. Instead of a democracy inspiring domino democracies to sprout in the region, we have a theocracy that is closer to Iran than any of the "democratic" models in the area. The US has never, in its years as an empire, had less positive influence on the region and it has never been more hated in the world than it is today.

In short, the neocon foreign policy has failed in every respect. Every single thing they said would happen in Iraq has not happened.