[Zimphire]

South African boy's limbs possibly severed for witchcraft

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
South African boy's limbs possibly severed for witchcraft

Actually, it's not uncommon.
I heared similar stories from people living there...

It's very sad...

-t

[PacHead]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Actually, it's not uncommon.
I heared similar stories from people living there...

It's very sad...

-t

Now that is kind of harsh. Who are you or I to criticize anybody else's religion ? I mean, if they wanna go out and chop body parts off of people, who are we to stop them ?

[sanity assassin]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Now that is kind of harsh. Who are you or I to criticize anybody else's religion ? I mean, if they wanna go out and chop body parts off of people, who are we to stop them ?

Oh be quiet for once.

[Sod Off Sadr]

Africa is a whacked-out place. This crap doesn't come as a surprise when you take it with all the other crap that the continent's people tolerate, propogate, or participate in.

[sanity assassin]

Sounds no different to the crazy stories we here in the US. Here in the UK we had a story about a boy, or girl, that was found in a river. Their arms, legs and head were cut of in a ritualistic fashion.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
Oh be quiet for once.

Your highly perceptive and worthwhile contribution to this thread is duly noted, however PacHead appreciates his right to free speech and will continue to write what he pleases, even if some people have their panties on too tight.

Regarding South Africa, that is obviously a part of the culture/religion or whatever down there, as these sorts of mutilations are pretty common. Not to mention all the AIDS and other crap down there which is also pretty damn common, if not epidemic. I have to admit, South Africa is not exactly high on my list of "dream vacations".

[sanity assassin]

Glad you took note of my comment.

AIDS? Seems like it's a problem in the West too. Child murders? Hmm, have you seen today's news? That N.J. girl who was missing, was found in a shallow grave. How about the 2 15 y/o girls on the run after murdering their grandparents.


Crazy stuff indeed.

So is murdering children just a part of your culture too? The reasons, and the method of killing people does not make it it anymore legitimate in your nation because you don't happen to cut the bodies up in a ritual.

Like I said, crazy sh!t in your neck of the woods. Murder is murder.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
Like I said, crazy sh!t in your neck of the woods. Murder is murder.

There's crazy people and serial killers in every part of the world. There is a difference when the murder is the action of one depraved individual, as opposed to some ritual or sick, primitive religious custom.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
Glad you took note of my comment.

AIDS? Seems like it's a problem in the West too. Child murders? Hmm, have you seen today's news? That N.J. girl who was missing, was found in a shallow grave. How about the 2 15 y/o girls on the run after murdering their grandparents.


Crazy stuff indeed.

So is murdering children just a part of your culture too? The reasons, and the method of killing people does not make it it anymore legitimate in your nation because you don't happen to cut the bodies up in a ritual.

Like I said, crazy sh!t in your neck of the woods. Murder is murder.

This stuff goes on all the time down there in SA. I speak with a few that live down there.

Some are considering even relocating.

[ASIMO]

Bush and gang should invade.

[deomacius]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Some are considering even relocating.

Definitely something to consider while they're still in one piece.




Sorry... I had to throw that in.
[/bad humor]

[deomacius]

Originally posted by ASIMO:
Bush and gang should invade.

Somebody should do something. THEY obviously can't get things under control. Where is the outcry for the UN to intervene?

[theolein]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
This stuff goes on all the time down there in SA. I speak with a few that live down there.

Some are considering even relocating.

As a South African, I can say that muti killings are part of Sangoma, or medicine man, tradition, but they're actually quite rare, since a muti killing would usually result in blood feud. Very often the Sangoma would get killed for enticing someone to kill for muti. Obviously, it is a capital crime in South Africa.

South Africa has a very high crime rate - Johannesburg has the world's highest murder rate, and one of the world's highest AIDS rates - about one in five people has the virus.

Nevertheless, I am considering going back to South Africa to live. I love the country and miss it a lot. People have a way of coping with all the difficulties of life and a good sense of humour and a lot of warmth.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by deomacius:
Somebody should do something. THEY obviously can't get things under control. Where is the outcry for the UN to intervene?

Write them a letter! Complain to your President!

Make a petition!

Go manifest at the South African Embassy!

The world is full of people waiting for other people to do something...

But make sure that that no one is doing anything first..

[gorickey]

Originally posted by theolein:
South Africa has a very high crime rate - Johannesburg has the world's highest murder rate, and one of the world's highest AIDS rates - about one in five people has the virus.

[RiSE]

[demograph68]

Originally posted by theolein:
Nevertheless, I am considering going back to South Africa to live. I love the country and miss it a lot. People have a way of coping with all the difficulties of life and a good sense of humour and a lot of warmth.

Hmm... seems like certain death living there. Good luck if you do go back. Just don't end up in one of these!!!

[Logic]

Originally posted by demograph68:
Just don't end up in one of these!!!
....snipped image......

Don't we all end up in one of those?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by PacHead:
There's crazy people and serial killers in every part of the world. There is a difference when the murder is the action of one depraved individual, as opposed to some ritual or sick, primitive religious custom.

You will find that this kind of sick, primitive religious custom is not all that rare in the United States or Europe.

Ritual murders actually happen fairly frequently. Most of the time they're not published in a place where you or Zimphire will see them and be able to mock those poor, backwards, underdeveloped and primitive blacks/muslims/americans/europeans.

-s*

[Naplander]

I have to admit, South Africa is not exactly high on my list of "dream vacations".

Went to Cape Town a few months back - one of the best holidays I have had in ages. Back in one piece, no trouble and a sun tan.

Check out some photo's below

http://tinyurl.com/3zqna

[voyageur]

I would love to go to South Africa sometime to see the wildlife (ahem, not the Johannesburg wildlife, though). And I've heard Capetown is beautiful too. Surely, theo, being a native you know of a relatively safe part of SA to return to?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
You will find that this kind of sick, primitive religious custom is not all that rare in the United States or Europe.

Ritual murders actually happen fairly frequently. Most of the time they're not published in a place where you or Zimphire will see them and be able to mock those poor, backwards, underdeveloped and primitive blacks/muslims/americans/europeans.

-s*

Spheric, this kind of stuff happens in SA more than most any place in the world.

No one ever said it never happened in the US.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Spheric, this kind of stuff happens in SA more than most any place in the world.

No one ever said it never happened in the US.

I'm just annoyed at the Cartman-like undertone of "WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH BLACK PEOPLE!?"

Dig?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I'm just annoyed at the Cartman-like undertone of "WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH BLACK PEOPLE!?"

Dig?

What the....



If that is what you thought... I would be concerned as to why you came to that conclusion.

Because That WASN'T and undertone of this thread.

[Spheric Harlot]

You mean apart from the thread's TITLE?



But thanks for the clarification.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
You mean apart from the thread's TITLE?

But thanks for the clarification.

Where in the title does it say "Black People" ?

Stop trying to project something into this that just isn't there.

[waxcrash]

Africans that have AIDS believe that raping a virgin will cure them. It has even gone so far that babies have been raped. That is just f*cking sick.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/2311067.stm

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
Africans that have AIDS believe that raping a virgin will cure them. It has even gone so far that babies have been raped. That is just f*cking sick.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/2311067.stm

[soul searching]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
Africans that have AIDS believe that raping a virgin will cure them. It has even gone so far that babies have been raped. That is just f*cking sick.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/2311067.stm

They believe having sex with a virgin will cure them.

[graphicpush]

They believe having sex with a virgin will cure them.

So I guess they're just "having sex" with babies right? If that isn't the purest definition of rape I have ever seen, then I don't know what is. Just because they use a euphamism doesn't make it any less evil.

[theolein]

Originally posted by voyageur:
I would love to go to South Africa sometime to see the wildlife (ahem, not the Johannesburg wildlife, though). And I've heard Capetown is beautiful too. Surely, theo, being a native you know of a relatively safe part of SA to return to?

Johannesburg is the worst, by far. Crime in SA is, as in most of the world worse in the cities than in the countryside. Also, the vast majority of crime, also as in most of the world, takes place amongst the poor, sadly. So, if you take the same sort of precautions that you'd take living in New York or LA, you'd be ok. Another place to live is of course the countryside or on the coast. The south coast east of Cape Town is really beautiful. And Cape Town itself is also a fantastic city.

[Afrodizzy]

i must say this thread caught my attention..."What the crap is going on down in South Africa?"

i, being the ONLY person thus far to post who

a) is south african
b) is currently living in south africa
c) is of african heritage and is therefore familiar with these so called "rituals or sick, primitive religious customs"

can perhaps shed some light on the issue at hand...

turtle777: "Actually, it's not uncommon.
I heared similar stories from people living there...
It's very sad..."

in fact, despite the fact that killings do take place for "witchcraft" these incidents are in fact not common at all.south africa is by no means a "safe" haven, but you'll find (with a little research) that over 49.3% of murders in south africa are at gunpoint, followed by fatal stab wounds etc.. the kind of murders we're talking about here constitute a single digit percentage of overall murders

PacHead:"Regarding South Africa, that is obviously a part of the culture/religion or whatever down there, as these sorts of mutilations are pretty common. Not to mention all the AIDS and other crap down there which is also pretty damn common, if not epidemic. I have to admit, South Africa is not exactly high on my list of "dream vacations".

you shouldn't be so hasty in exhibiting what you DON'T know, these mutilations are neither a practice of culture nor religion, our culture is a peaceful one, based on what we call "ubuntu" which quite simply acknowledges the unity of people, not on the basis of colour, or tribe or religious denomination, but because ultimately we are all human. and you'd be surprised to learn that our religious believes are not unlike your own. *sigh*

Pachead: "There's crazy people and serial killers in every part of the world. There is a difference when the murder is the action of one depraved individual, as opposed to some ritual or sick, primitive religious custom."

indeed, there is a difference. much like there is a difference between knowing what one is talking about, and NOT knowing... but then of course there's the altogether other issue of knowing the difference between the two...

Deomacius: "Somebody should do something. THEY obviously can't get things under control. Where is the outcry for the UN to intervene?"

good question,simple answer. the situation in south africa is nowhere near "out of control"

zimphire: "Spheric, this kind of stuff happens in SA more than most any place in the world."

lemme guess, someone you know who "lived" there told you this?...geez!

Zimphire: "If that is what you thought... I would be concerned as to why you came to that conclusion.Because That WASN'T and undertone of this thread."

although i can see how spheric would reach that conclusion, i'd have to agree with you zimphire. that wasn't the undertone of this thread. i could quite frankly use one word to summarise the undertone of this particular thread. "ignorance"

anyway, hopefully i've educated some of you, if i came across as sarcastic to some of you, i apologise. but to assume that you know about a country and its culture because CNN choses to feed you the negative rather than the overwhelming positives of a place, is the reason why so many people know nothing of the dark continent. i mean cmon guys, if SA is such as hell hole, why is it still populated, why is it one of the fastest developing nations in the world, why the hell are we hosting the 2010 fifa world cup?!!? need i go on?

[soul searching]

Originally posted by graphicpush:
So I guess they're just "having sex" with babies right? If that isn't the purest definition of rape I have ever seen, then I don't know what is. Just because they use a euphamism doesn't make it any less evil.

I'm not defending what they're doing. It may very well be that most end up raping a virgin in order to be "cured". What I was clarifying is that they believe that having sex with a virgin will cure them, meaning if the virgin were to give consent, they've be set. Unless I misunderstood something, though the article was pretty clear on what they believe.

[Superchicken]

From what I understand South Africa is actually a fairly well developed nation as far as Africa goes, the UN should much sooner enter into one of those lovely nations where you have Muslims brutally killing Christians just because they're there.

[theolein]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
Africans that have AIDS believe that raping a virgin will cure them. It has even gone so far that babies have been raped. That is just f*cking sick.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/2311067.stm

Can you tell me why you managed to generalise that all Africans believe this, even though both I (I come from South Africa) and the article refers to South Africa and the Sangomas (witch doctors) and their insane beliefs? Not only this, but the article is two years old and the South African government has since then started giving out free AIDS drugs.

The Sangoma tradition in Africa is as old as the people there itself.Usually they are chosen by older Sangomas in a trance, but their so called cures are a mix of some things that are incredible (I've seen some truly amazing things) and a load of rubbish. Sadly the true Sangomas who have real knowledge of native herbs and the ability to see in trance are a rare breed and because there is no such thing as a Sangoma certificate the majority simply feed on the superstitions of the rural poor that move to the city ghettos in search of jobs.

[theolein]

Originally posted by Afrodizzy:
i must say this thread caught my attention..."What the crap is going on down in South Africa?"

i, being the ONLY person thus far to post who

a) is south african
b) is currently living in south africa
c) is of african heritage and is therefore familiar with these so called "rituals or sick, primitive religious customs"

...

Howzit. Nice to see another SA person here. I am seriously considering moving back myself.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Afrodizzy:
zimphire: "Spheric, this kind of stuff happens in SA more than most any place in the world."

lemme guess, someone you know who "lived" there told you this?...geez!

Nope, someone who still lives there now. They are in the midst of relocating. I speak with them daily.

although i can see how spheric would reach that conclusion, i'd have to agree with you zimphire. that wasn't the undertone of this thread. i could quite frankly use one word to summarise the undertone of this particular thread. "ignorance"

Thanks for at least seeing it wasn't racial. But yes, it is a bit worse down in a SA tthan most civilized civilizations are.

I myself am not saying it's a "Hell Hole" But I wouldn't want to live there.

There are a lot of bad things that happen in say, LA and New York here in the states. Life still goes on. I am sure it's the same over at SA.

[Afrodizzy]

Originally posted by theolein:
Howzit. Nice to see another SA person here. I am seriously considering moving back myself.

hehe, howzit bru! yeah it's nice to meet another south african. i haven't been home in about a year or so (i am currently based in asia)... but i can't wait to get back

[Afrodizzy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Nope, someone who still lives there now. They are in the midst of relocating. I speak with them daily.
[/b]
Thanks for at least seeing it wasn't racial. But yes, it is a bit worse down in a SA tthan most civilized civilizations are.

I myself am not saying it's a "Hell Hole" But I wouldn't want to live there.

There are a lot of bad things that happen in say, LA and New York here in the states. Life still goes on. I am sure it's the same over at SA. [/B]

*sigh* zimphire, if there's one thing i've learnt (being a very well travelled individual) is that you cannot assume to know anything about a place, unless you've actually experienced it for yourself... but yeah, i'm sure your friends are right

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Afrodizzy:
*sigh* zimphire, if there's one thing i've learnt (being a very well travelled individual) is that you cannot assume to know anything about a place, unless you've actually experienced it for yourself... but yeah, i'm sure your friends are right

I don't assume anything. I just know what I have been told by people that have lived there for awhile.

That isn't assuming. That is hearing first hand.

[Naplander]

It's hearing - not experiencing

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
That is hearing first hand.

SECOND-hand.

and a note to the others:

Zimphire's sources on ANYTHING - be it gay lifestyle, anal sex, atheism, European anti-Semitism, AIDS, South African rituals, or whatever - are universally beyond reproach and invariably enable him to hold a perspective that is FAR more accurate and realistic than yours.

Even if you are gay, regularly have anal sex, are an atheist, European, social worker, or South African.

He is the triumph of anecdotal hearsay over experience.

-s*

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
SECOND-hand.

and a note to the others:

Zimphire's sources on ANYTHING - be it gay lifestyle, anal sex, atheism, European anti-Semitism, AIDS, South African rituals, or whatever - are universally beyond reproach and invariably enable him to hold a perspective that is FAR more accurate and realistic than yours.

Even if you are gay, regularly have anal sex, are an atheist, European, social worker, or South African.

He is the triumph of anecdotal hearsay over experience.

-s*

***Smackdown*** etc...

[theolein]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I don't assume anything. I just know what I have been told by people that have lived there for awhile.

That isn't assuming. That is hearing first hand.

Zimphire, my best friend from uni days lives about a two miles away from the highest crime area in central Johannesburg, yet he has never been mugged or attacked there. He doesn't like the area, as it has become quite run down in the 14 years that he's lived there, but he isn't thinking about leaving the country, since he quite likes the place and prefers it to England, where he spent a lot of his youth and a few years in the 80's when he fled the Apartheid army service like I did.

My mother also still lives there and, while she was quite frightened during the change over to a democratic country, and was considering leaving to go and live with my sister and her husband in Australia, now would not leave anymore. She simply likes the country, the people and their warmth and humour and the town she has spent most of her life in.

Many whites in SA have found it hard to cope with the changes that came after the changeover to democracy. One of those changes is that whites are no longer immune to crime because the facist police force that routinely used torture and murder in order to suppress the black majority is no longer there. In those days however, crimes amongst blacks were not routinely followed as the white police simply did not care. Now, although whites have experienced a huge increase in crime themselves, including rape, robbery and murder, and you can ask any person in SA who lives in one of the poorest areas, the crime is still mainly concentrated amongst the poor themselves, and those people simply say that the whites now experience a little of what they experience every day. It may interest you to know that crime is the biggest worry of all South Africans, regardless of background.

Now, you heard that from me first hand. I suggest you go and visit the country yourself and make your own impressions.

[badidea]

Originally posted by Afrodizzy:

b) is currently living in south africa

Originally posted by Afrodizzy:

i haven't been home in about a year or so (i am currently based in asia)...

Not that this would be important for your very good post

but...

[Logic]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
From what I understand South Africa is actually a fairly well developed nation as far as Africa goes, the UN should much sooner enter into one of those lovely nations where you have Muslims brutally killing Christians just because they're there.

Like where?

[theolein]

Originally posted by Logic:
Like where?

Sudan (Dafur and the South with its 20 year long civil war), Iraq?

But on the other hand you have Nigeria, so I suppose, that it takes two to tango.

[Logic]

Originally posted by theolein:
Sudan (Dafur and the South with its 20 year long civil war), Iraq?

But on the other hand you have Nigeria, so I suppose, that it takes two to tango.

In Sudan it's Muslims against Muslims(well mostly, the "militia" doesn't care what religion as long as you are black). But yes, it happened in Iraq. But we are already in there(funny how no attacks on Christians were there before we entered, huh?).

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
SECOND-hand.

and a note to the others:

Zimphire's sources on ANYTHING - be it gay lifestyle, anal sex, atheism, European anti-Semitism, AIDS, South African rituals, or whatever - are universally beyond reproach and invariably enable him to hold a perspective that is FAR more accurate and realistic than yours.

Even if you are gay, regularly have anal sex, are an atheist, European, social worker, or South African.

He is the triumph of anecdotal hearsay over experience.

-s*

100% Silly.

But I know you can't help yourself fanboy.

I think your still upset you got smacked down for trying to project racism into this.