[Splinter]

Okay I'll break it down

Collin started talking about pakistan. I answered him sarcasticaly then continued to adress 'tal' = Taliesin in a brief but much needed rant. Then The capt'n tried to write the word "whole" while placing blame on the current situation in the mid-east on the UN... and rightfully so those good for nothing bastards.

[Sky Captain]

The whole mess in Israel.
Cooked up by the UN in 1947.
(Jedisam?)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I am not too optimistic of Ham playing nicely

They may however form a NEW group that does the terrorist stuff, and they stay out of it.

So they can say "LOOK WE DON'T DO THAT ANYMORE"

I share your lack of optimism. I just hope they are given a brief chance to prove themselves and stop the terrorism: ie; no attacks from this point forward. Refusing to recognize their legitimacy from the start could prove to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by NYCFarmboy

If Palestinians feel that Hamas best represents their goals and ideas to represent them in government then that is democracy at work.

Let the chips fall where they may.

Voting has consequences, the voters have only themselves to blame if the results don't please them.

Excellent post

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by PacHead

When Hamas attacks Israel it will be an act of war and Israel will have the full right to respond in kind. Massive carpet bombing is a good solution, no civilians to worry about, just terrorists and their terrorist government. In the meantime, it will be fun to watch the further deterioration and sheer chaos in the territories temporarily occupied by a gang of terrorists.

Are you saying electors can be held responsible for the actions of those they put into power?

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Splinter

...then continued to adress 'tal' = Taliesin in a brief but much needed rant.

Hmm, and why? I don't get it.

Taliesin

[Splinter]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

(Jedisam?)

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Hmm, and why? I don't get it.

Taliesin

Yeah okay. It's just this little thing where terrorists target civilians murdering them and regardless of thier race religion age gender or political views. And you say it's revenge for a militarys' attempts at targeting terrorist leaders and some (I hate this word) 'collateral damage' which they apoligize for anyway.

So we have the latter situation in which everyone grieves the death of innocent people and strive to protect them even those who support that military deplore the fact that civilians are killed in the 'crossfire'. Then you have the former where they strive for the death of as many people as possible targting the innocent, the ones who had nothing to do with anything and even those supporting a Palestinian state arn't heartless enough to say it's okay because it's "revenge"... except you.

You don't find anything wrong with that? "made some points with it's crude revenge-attacks against Israeli civilians"

[Kevin]

[christ]

Originally Posted by Splinter

... everyone grieves the death of innocent people and strive to protect them even those who support that military deplore the fact that civilians are killed in the 'crossfire'...

Well, everyone except PacHead:

Originally Posted by PacHead

...Massive carpet bombing is a good solution, no civilians to worry about, just terrorists and their terrorist government...

[christ]

Originally Posted by Kevin

<hugely witty party political broadcast>

Interesting that Carter is shown in that picture - isn't it the Republicans that are espousing the virtues of democracy in Iraq at the moment?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by christ

Interesting that Carter is shown in that picture - isn't it the Republicans that are espousing the virtues of democracy in Iraq at the moment?

Do you know why Carter was in it?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Do you know why Carter was in it?

Because he is a terrorist sympathizer who hates the Jews?

[Kevin]

I'll take that as a "no"

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'll take that as a "no"

*I* know why Carter was in that cartoon but you'll have to wait to get a reply from christ as to whether or not he knows why.

[christ]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

*I* know why Carter was in that cartoon ...

... apparently you don't.

I assume that he was there because he led an international observer team which said Wednesday's elections had been orderly and fair, but I am blowed if I can see how this translates to:

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Because he is a terrorist sympathizer who hates the Jews?

But I still think that it is interesting that the Republicans are espousing the virtues of democracy in Iraq at the moment, but Kevin isn't posting witticisms about that, nor apparently sees the irony of criticising the result of "free and fair" elections.

[Y3a]

I just wanna see how good the day to day governing is by Hamas, forgetting the political BS and sabre rattling. I don't think that those who voted for Hamas actually understood that is WASN'T a popularity contest, but a life or death situation.


Funny Cartoon too!

[Kevin]

I think it was about certain people turning a blind eye to the fact they elected TERRORISTS.

But hey, what do I know.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by christ

... apparently you don't.

I assume that he was there because he led an international observer team which said Wednesday's elections had been orderly and fair, but I am blowed if I can see how this translates to:

Sarcasm, my man . . . sarcasm.

I was poking fun at all of those who would see Carter's presence (a peace-loving Democrat) as somehow equivalent to condoning the actions of Hamas. It was a (too) subtle dig at those who can't help but seem to think a democracy is legitimate only if sanctioned by the US.

[dcmacdaddy]

President Bush said this yesterday about dealing with Hamas and I agree wholeheartedly with him on this stance.

President Bush said Friday in a television interview with "CBS Evening News" that the United States would cut aid to the Palestinian government unless Hamas abolishes the militant arm of its party and stops calling for the destruction of Israel.

Hamas is listed as a terror organization by the United States and the European Union. If the group fails to change its ways, Bush said, "we won't deal with them."

Quote is from this article.

[Kevin]

I agree as well. See as I said, you can support their decision, but still demand the right thing to be done.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Splinter

Yeah okay. It's just this little thing where terrorists target civilians murdering them and regardless of thier race religion age gender or political views. And you say it's revenge for a militarys' attempts at targeting terrorist leaders and some (I hate this word) 'collateral damage' which they apoligize for anyway.

So we have the latter situation in which everyone grieves the death of innocent people and strive to protect them even those who support that military deplore the fact that civilians are killed in the 'crossfire'. Then you have the former where they strive for the death of as many people as possible targting the innocent, the ones who had nothing to do with anything and even those supporting a Palestinian state arn't heartless enough to say it's okay because it's "revenge"... except you.

You don't find anything wrong with that? "made some points with it's crude revenge-attacks against Israeli civilians"

It's not my opinion, anymore, but it's still the way some parts of the palestinians who back and voted Hamas see it. I would say that about 30% of the palestinians see Hamas' attacks on israeli civilians as crude revenge-attacks, ie. as a form of deterrence.

That's why Hamas was able to make points with some parts of the palestinian society.

Taliesin

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think it was about certain people turning a blind eye to the fact they elected TERRORISTS.

But hey, what do I know.

Who turned a blind eye?

[Kevin]

There are certain people who made comments about how this democracy was a great thing, but forgot to mention voting for terrorist organizations is a bad thing.

Dig?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

There are certain people who made comments about how this democracy was a great thing, but forgot to mention voting for terrorist organizations is a bad thing.

Dig?

Democracy in the Palestinian territories is a GOOD thing. Having a terrorist group as a democractically elected government is MAYBE a bad thing. Hamas should be given one chance, and only one chance, to set aside their weapons and renounce their stance on the destruction of Israel.

You seem intent on condemning them without even giving a chance to try and succeed or (probably) fail.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Kevin

There are certain people who made comments about how this democracy was a great thing, but forgot to mention voting for terrorist organizations is a bad thing.

Well, who?

This is what Carter said right after the election btw:

Carter: U.S. won't work with Hamas unless it changes
Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter, who is leading a team of international observers for the Palestinian parliamentary election Wednesday, said Tuesday that if Hamas wants to win international recognition after the elections, it will have to become more moderate.

Carter said at the Herzliya Conference on Tuesday that Hamas' electoral success "may or may not lead to their assuming more moderate and peaceful policies," but added: "This they must do."

Carter stated that Palestinians must stop terror groups, "even including a direct military confrontation."

[Kevin]

Former President Carter said Thursday the Palestinian elections were "completely honest, completely fair, completely safe and without violence."

Carter, who led an international observer team from the National Democratic Institute, also said he hoped that the Hamas Islamic group would act responsibly now that it appears to have been elected to power in Palestinian elections.

"My hope is that as Hamas assumes a major role in the next government, whatever that might be, it will take a position on international standards of responsibility," he told a news conference in Jerusalem.

The terrorist group Hamas vowed not to disarm or negotiate with the Jewish state if it enters the Palestinian parliament after the election.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Perfectly sums up what has happened.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Democracy in the Palestinian territories is a GOOD thing. Having a terrorist group as a democractically elected government is MAYBE a bad thing. Hamas should be given one chance, and only one chance, to set aside their weapons and renounce their stance on the destruction of Israel.

You seem intent on condemning them without even giving a chance to try and succeed or (probably) fail.

Want to tell the families of the thousands of murdered Israeli women and children that Hamas, who murdered their loved ones, should get one chance?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Corpse of Chewbacca

Want to tell the families of the thousands of murdered Israeli women and children that Hamas, who murdered their loved ones, should get one chance?

Yup. I do. Give me some phone numbers and I'll make the calls.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Yup. I do. Give me some phone numbers and I'll make the calls.

No dice, must be face to face.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Corpse of Chewbacca

No dice, must be face to face.

If you're serious, PM me the names and addresses of Israeli citizens in the US who have had loved ones murdered by Hamas. I can travel anywhere on the East Coast with a few days notice but would need some more advanced notice to go further afield. If you want to buy me a ticket to Israel I will certainly take it and do it face-to-face over there as well. So, if you are serious, send me a PM. Because I am.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

If you're serious, PM me the names and addresses of Israeli citizens in the US who have had loved ones murdered by Hamas. I can travel anywhere on the East Coast with a few days notice but would need some more advanced notice to go further afield. If you want to buy me a ticket to Israel I will certainly take it and do it face-to-face over there as well. So, if you are serious, send me a PM. Because I am.

Calling your bluff. Too easy to see through.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Corpse of Chewbacca

Calling your bluff. Too easy to see through.

Really? What makes it too easy to see through? Or maybe you don't have the courage of your convictions. I, on the other hand, do believe in my convictions.

Your bstone, right? If I remember correctly, you've got family here in the States as well as in Israel. Am I right? One of them must have known somebody who died in a Hamas-sponsored suicide bombing.

I'll give you a day or two. Ask around in your family and get back to me.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Really? What makes it too easy to see through? Or maybe you don't have the courage of your convictions. I, on the other hand, do believe in my convictions.

Your bstone, right? If I remember correctly, you've got family here in the States as well as in Israel. Am I right? One of them must have known somebody who died in a Hamas-sponsored suicide bombing.

I'll give you a day or two. Ask around in your family and get back to me.

It is interesting to note that your convictions include the promotion of a terrorist group to control a government.

I will quote from Eli Wiesel

"Hamas won," said Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel. "Hamas is surely not a democratic movement. Its ideas are surely not humanistic ideas.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Corpse of Chewbacca

It is interesting to note that your convictions include the promotion of a terrorist group to control a government.

I will quote from Eli Wiesel

Your diverting from the topic at hand.

I sent you a PM about my offer. Let me know how you want to follow up with it. Thanks!

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Your diverting from the topic at hand.

I sent you a PM about my offer. Let me know how you want to follow up with it. Thanks!

I got an email about a prvmsg. When I checked, none was there. Unsent it? Chickening out already?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Corpse of Chewbacca

I got an email about a prvmsg. When I checked, none was there. Unsent it? Chickening out already?

Check your bstone account.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Check your bstone account.

It's retired. Try again.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Yes! We finally got someone to link this somehow to the Holocaust!

Whohoo!

Abu Roub, the candidate in the recent elections who is known by the name Hitler, did win a seat.
He was 12th on the National Fatah list of candidates, and of the 66 national seats, the terror factions took 60 (30 for HAMAS, 27 for FATAH, 3 for PFLP). The other six winners include former Finance Minister Salam Fayyad, former PA spokesperson Hanan Ashrawi, and former Presidential candidate Mustafa Barghouti.

Of the 60 local seats not reserved for Christians, HAMAS won 46. FATAH won ten, plus the six reserved seats. The remaining four seats went to “independents.”

HAMAS will have a stronger grip on the legislature than the Republicans do in either the U.S. Senate or the House of Representatives. FATAH, with less than one third of the seats, is a weak minority party. Of the 132 legislators elected, no more than 10 are unaffiliated with a terror group.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Corpse of Chewbacca

It's retired. Try again.

I'm not sure why you aren't willing to log in as that account--Only admins can "retire" an account--but I forwarded it to this account. Check your PMs.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

I'm not sure why you aren't willing to log in as that account--Only admins can "retire" an account

Um you see he is not using that account, so why send it to that one? Seems kinda absurd.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Um you see he is not using that account, so why send it to that one? Seems kinda absurd.

Well the sig for his Chewbacca acount indicates that he is bstone. It nowhere says he is the former bstone.

But, I forwarded the PM to the Corpse of Chewbacca account. I haven't heard back from him yet but I told him I would give him a day or two. So, we'll see what happens come tomorrow or Tuesday.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Well the sig for his Chewbacca acount indicates that he is bstone. It nowhere says he is the former bstone.

Oh come on.... .

When was the last time he used the bstone account?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Oh come on.... .

When was the last time he used the bstone account?

I had to check but it was January 4th of this year. Only a couple weeks ago.

But, I am confused as to your purpose in responding to my response to Corpse. What was your intent in commenting upon my post wondering why he was not using his "real" account as opposed to his novelty account?

Lots of people on here have multiple accounts they use. Why would it be wrong to assume that a person with known multiple accounts will be using those multiple accounts? (That's what I did.) Did he ever post anywhere stating that the bstone account was retired and that he would be using only the Corpse account from now on? If so, I missed that thread.


But, I did get the PM forwarded to him and that's what mattered to me.

[thunderous_funker]

Before the train completely leaves the tracks....

Hamas wanted legitimacy, now they have it. But as already stated, an agenda of "driving Israel into the sea" won't prove successfull.

Guerilla wars and terror campaigns against your enemies are relatively easy. Running a country and delivering a better life to your people is hard.

There are plenty of historical examples of "terrorists" gaining power only to wind up settling into the boring old role of grey-suited bureaucrats and doing a pretty good job at it.

[vmarks]

And then there are historical examples of terrorists gaining power and not settling into boring bureaucracy. Stalin, Hitler, Tojo, Arafat, Ahmadinejad are names that should mean something.

Just because -you- know that the "Push Israel into the sea" won't prove successful doesn't mean they don't know that: They're convinced that it will, and that this is the platform they were elected on.

[thunderous_funker]

Yep. Could go either way. Time will tell.

Or are you insisting that we finally label all Palestinians "terrorists" and brush aside any lingering crumbs of legal restraint in making their lives more horrific than it already is?

Politicians get elected promising all kinds of crap. If Israel continues to exist successfully above water in 6 months will Hamas be run out of town? I doubt it as long as they start to deliver decent living conditions and some light at the end of the occupation tunnel.

[Kevin]

Yes but aren't we striving for a peaceful existence? Isn't that hard when one side isn't even trying?

[thunderous_funker]

Even harder when both sides aren't really trying.

[Kevin]

nigga please.