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tkmd · Mar 14, 2008, 12:46 PM

I was talking to a co- worker today, who completely computer illiterate- and he was telling me that his laptop has some virus on it, is extremely slow now - blah blah blah. He said he was going to take it to the geek squad to get it fixed, to which I responded that I could fix it for him and get get his computer back to him the same day. He was so happy that he wanted to offer money for (what I think ) is a simple f-disk and reinstall win xp. He is more of an acquaintance, and wants to pay me for this job - how much should I accept?

64stang06 · Mar 14, 2008, 12:55 PM

$35/hour?

Paco500 · Mar 14, 2008, 01:09 PM

I'd keep it casual so he doesn't have high expectaions of on-going support- have him buy you a nice lunch or something.

ort888 · Mar 14, 2008, 01:24 PM

Sexual favors?

turtle777 · Mar 14, 2008, 01:26 PM

Wait, he want's the "virus fixed", and you offer to re-install XP ?

do you kow what you are doing ? Sure doesn't sound like it.

-t

powerbook867 · Mar 14, 2008, 01:46 PM

If it's a nasty virus + other issues, a lot of times it's easier to do a nuke a pave rather than try and "clean" the machine up...

Is there data on it that this person wants saved? I'd just make it really clear your intent.

50 dollar gift card someplace would make me a happy guy for an 1-2 hours of work...

turtle777 · Mar 14, 2008, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by powerbook867

Is there data on it that this person wants saved? I'd just make it really clear your intent.

That was my main concern. Is that person CLEAR that a new install would make them lose most, if not all of their data, and all apps need to be reinstalled etc.. ?

-t

analogika · Mar 14, 2008, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Wait, he want's the "virus fixed", and you offer to re-install XP ?

do you kow what you are doing ? Sure doesn't sound like it.

In which case, he certainly can't charge "professional" rates.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · 03:39 PM

Nuke and pave isn't a bad option- why do people think that's such a big deal? FUD making it sound like a much harder process than it actually is?

Most times it's fairly easy to have someone copy off the documents and files they've created, and then nuke and pave the rest of their system, which can all be easily reinstalled.

On an unknown machine, you'll probably spend a lot less time doing that, and be absolutely certain you've cleaned up any and all problems, than wasting a whole lot of time trying to track down and fix all manner of system rot, spyware, viruses, etc. that some noob has let fester on their machine.

I'd say the same for a Mac or PC that was slow and acting funky and I didn't know the exact history of what the user has done to it.

I'd also add: don't take responsibility yourself for backing up the user's personal files. Have them do it, and issue a warning that you won't look at the system before they do, and when you do look at the machine, that you won't be held responsible for anything they haven't backed up. Maybe give them some pointers for how to back things up that may not be so obvious, like their emails and specific application data and files.

mdc · Mar 14, 2008, 03:40 PM

"(what I think ) is a simple f-disk and reinstall win xp."

If you fdisk a drive it'll delete the partition table and then you recreate it. He's going to lose absolutely everything on his computer.
You might want to ask him if he has anything he'd like to save before you start working.

turtle777 · Mar 14, 2008, 04:10 PM

I'd say: don't even touch that PC with a ten foot pole.

There's nothing to gain for you, but all to lose.

Just imagine a completely pissed of co-worker because he was to dumb to understand your warning about backing up his sh!t. In the end, you'll be the one who will be blamed.

-t

alligator · Mar 14, 2008, 06:46 PM

Encourage him to upgrade instead - recommend a Mac.

peeb · Mar 14, 2008, 07:08 PM

Yeah, really. He'll think you more for helping him ditch it for a MacBook.

wallinbl · Mar 14, 2008, 07:12 PM

lunch and a beer

Doofy · Mar 14, 2008, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by tkmd

to which I responded that I could

There's the problem, right there.

ghporter · Mar 14, 2008, 10:13 PM

Save everything in his "My Documents" folder to an external drive-maybe by removing or disconnecting the drive internally and copying it AS an external drive. THEN nuke from orbit. Provide him his documents in whatever form and media is appropriate and warn him VERY STRONGLY that his infestation-if that's what is really going on-could have been caused by just about anything you recovered, so he should delete anything he isn't 200% certain HE created. If possible, burn an image of the virginal XP installation to a CD or DVD so when he needs this done again it's all taken care of but the wiping.

This is probably a 2 hour job, and it's simple stuff, so around $50 (or a nice dinner for two) would be appropriate. I'd go for the dinner for two-it doesn't imply a business arrangement. THIS IS EXTREMELY CRUCIAL. If you don't want stupid phone calls about Windows gooberage at 2AM, you MUST be clear that you're not doing anything that even requires support, let alone implies that you'll do any follow up at all. You're saving him from the idiots in Geek Squad, not acting as tech support.

zerostar · Mar 14, 2008, 10:55 PM

I have done this for free for a couple co-workers, this always ends badly. They ALWAYS forget something they swear they had... One told me she didn't need anything at all! Then was literally crying when some baby photos were supposedly lost.

Last time I did a "clean up" it was an older computer with a real slow 30GB drive so I suggested the get a new drive and we found a nice fast one on the cheap, installed XP and moved over from there. We never needed anything from the original drive (been 6 mos. now) but he has it just in case...

So now I either do that (I have a bunch of good decent size drives I swap around, and I archive it all to DVD for them (2 copies are given and told to keep separate).

turtle777 · Mar 15, 2008, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by zerostar

Last time I did a "clean up" it was an older computer with a real slow 30GB drive so I suggested the get a new drive and we found a nice fast one on the cheap, installed XP and moved over from there. We never needed anything from the original drive (been 6 mos. now) but he has it just in case...

So now I either do that (I have a bunch of good decent size drives I swap around, and I archive it all to DVD for them (2 copies are given and told to keep separate).

-t

alligator · Mar 15, 2008, 08:44 AM

I second the last post. This is the safe way of handling it.

ghporter · Mar 15, 2008, 11:44 AM

On reflection, zerostar's method is much better than mine. Dinner for two at a less-fancy restaurant is appropriate for installing a second drive and loading XP on it, and the rationale-saving your coworker from Geek Squad-is still the same; this is NOT tech support.

Cipher13 · Mar 15, 2008, 12:00 PM

Format and start over. When it comes to Windows, it's almost always the best option.

tkmd · Mar 15, 2008, 02:56 PM

No I've told him to save everything he considers important (pics, music) because I am planning on erasing the whole HD and reinstalling windows. Should be a straight forward process. But what is a fair price? well not sure of that....

turtle777 · Mar 15, 2008, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by tkmd

No I've told him to save everything he considers important (pics, music) because I am planning on erasing the whole HD and reinstalling windows. Should be a straight forward process. But what is a fair price? well not sure of that....

So, your co-worker is too retarded to actually format the HD and reinstall Windows himself ?

If that's all you're doing, he should treat you to a cheeseburger.

-t

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Mar 17, 2008, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

So, your co-worker is too retarded to actually format the HD and reinstall Windows himself ?

"...completely computer illiterate..."

Reinstalling Windows (and all drivers and applications) isn't all that difficult, but definitely not for computer illiterates.

turtle777 · Mar 17, 2008, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

"...completely computer illiterate..."

Reinstalling Windows (and all drivers and applications) isn't all that difficult, but definitely not for computer illiterates.

Originally Posted by tkmd

No I've told him to save everything he considers important (pics, music) because I am planning on erasing the whole HD and reinstalling windows. Should be a straight forward process. But what is a fair price? well not sure of that....

Completely computer illiterate, but he's supposed to take care of all the backups himself.
Does he even *understand* what a complete reformat means ?

I see disaster coming...

-t

Sherman Homan · Mar 17, 2008, 10:39 AM

So you do the backup and you get started by reformatting and then Windows asks you for the original OEM Windows installation disks with the right validation code, right?

Mrjinglesusa · Mar 17, 2008, 01:01 PM

Take a picture while you're doing it and post it in this thread:

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...as-a-bad-idea/

wolfen · Mar 17, 2008, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by zerostar

I have done this for free for a couple co-workers, this always ends badly. They ALWAYS forget something they swear they had... One told me she didn't need anything at all! Then was literally crying when some baby photos were supposedly lost.

Every...effing...time.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Mar 17, 2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I see disaster coming...

-t

Sure, if the person who's supposed to be helping the computer illiterate is themselves, computer-retarded.

None of this is as FUD-worthy as you obviously want to make it. I've helped many a person with exactly the same sort of thing. The idea is that the person helping out is the one who knows what they are doing enough to help out the person who doesn't- like with anything mechanical or electronic.

If you don't know how to help someone else, and consider your own involvement "a disaster coming" - then why the hell would you even offer? Just to be a dick who thinks "all PCs suck and will end up with a disaster!"

turtle777 · Mar 17, 2008, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Sure, if the person who's supposed to be helping the computer illiterate is themselves, computer-retarded.

None of this is as FUD-worthy as you obviously want to make it. I've helped many a person with exactly the same sort of thing. The idea is that the person helping out is the one who knows what they are doing enough to help out the person who doesn't- like with anything mechanical or electronic.

If you don't know how to help someone else, and consider your own involvement "a disaster coming" - then why the hell would you even offer? Just to be a dick who thinks "all PCs suck and will end up with a disaster!"

Huh ? (Why) Are you talking to me ?

Or is this advice for the OP ?

-t

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Mar 17, 2008, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Huh ? (Why) Are you talking to me ?

Or is this advice for the OP ?

-t

I was responding to you, and your obvious desire for a bad outcome... but of course I mean 'you' in the sense of whoever it is that offers to help someone else with their computer should know themselves how to actually help people, as well as how to fix a computer. Yes, the OP.

turtle777 · Mar 17, 2008, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

I was responding to you, and your obvious desire for a bad outcome... but of course I mean 'you' in the sense of whoever it is that offers to help someone else with their computer should know themselves how to actually help people, as well as how to fix a computer. Yes, the OP.

I'm sorry to be so negative, but does the OP strike you as someone who knows what he's doing ?

-t

Andrew Stephens · Mar 17, 2008, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by wolfen

Every...effing...time.

QFT

How many times have you heard the cry, "but when you said you'd be erasing everything I didn't think you meant my files I thought you meant everything...else."

or similar

"you deleted my files, but they're still there, right?"

Shaddim · Mar 17, 2008, 04:27 PM

Never, ever, ever work on a friend's computer.

Even if a repair turns out well, they'll expect you to be available for tech support. The harassment will never end.

turtle777 · Mar 17, 2008, 04:30 PM

Bottom line: you fix computers only for people you LOVE.

As soon as that's not the main reason, you'll be subjecting yourself to expectations that are NEVRR worth the risk you have to take.

There is a *REASON* why companies charge a lot of money for these services: they need to make darn sure that nothing goes wrong.

-t

kmkkid · Mar 17, 2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

There is a *REASON* why companies charge a lot of money for these services: they need to make darn sure that nothing goes wrong.

-t

Actually it has more to do with taking advantage of people who have no idea what they are doing technology-wise.

RAILhead · Mar 17, 2008, 04:37 PM

I say you charge him one woman.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Mar 17, 2008, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I'm sorry to be so negative, but does the OP strike you as someone who knows what he's doing ?

-t

I don't know, I don't presume to know him.

As for helping people, in my experience complete computer illiterates virtually never have all that many files that need backing up to begin with. They'll tend to have a few documents they've created, perhaps their email, a few photos, their web bookmarks, etc. People that don't know all that much about computers don't tend to use them for all that much- all this stuff scales with the user level.

If I were a noob myself, I wouldn't want some negative, pessimistic, non-critical thinker helping me with my computer in the first place- I'd want to go to someone who can actually get things done, and knows what they are doing, so it cuts both ways. If a person isn't actually the logical/helpful type, they shouldn't offer to help anyone with computers PERIOD- let them go to GeekSquad or wherever else since the wanna-be helper clearly can't do a better job than those places.

analogika · Mar 17, 2008, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Actually it has more to do with taking advantage of people who have no idea what they are doing technology-wise.

Not really.

I mean, there is price-gouging, of course.

But often enough, the reason an "expert" will take ten minutes to do something is because he has spent enormous amounts of time and experience figuring out how NOT to need the two-and-a-half hours the layman requires.

Assholes abound, as everywhere, but do NOT underestimate the value of expertise.

turtle777 · Mar 17, 2008, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Actually it has more to do with taking advantage of people who have no idea what they are doing technology-wise.

That were true if the US wasn't such a litigious society.
But because it is, you need to cover your potential losses (= lawsuit).

That's the main reason why some things are more expensive here than for instance in Europe.

-t

kmkkid · Mar 17, 2008, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

That were true if the US wasn't such a litigious society.
But because it is, you need to cover your potential losses (= lawsuit).

That's the main reason why some things are more expensive here than for instance in Europe.

-t

I was under the impression US businesses made you sign service waivers as they do here in Canada.

kmkkid · Mar 17, 2008, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Not really.

I mean, there is price-gouging, of course.

But often enough, the reason an "expert" will take ten minutes to do something is because he has spent enormous amounts of time and experience figuring out how NOT to need the two-and-a-half hours the layman requires.

Assholes abound, as everywhere, but do NOT underestimate the value of expertise.

I understand your point. However when futureshop wants to charge you $100 to install XP (which is automated), or a hard drive (which takes what 1 minute?).....

analogika · Mar 17, 2008, 05:20 PM

That covers cost of the workbench, employees, insurance plan, warranty on repairs, parts replaced on judgement of the technician but ultimately not covered by warranty, paperwork, bookkeeping, etc. etc.etc.

Not saying they don't gouge, but basic pricing structure is generally set to recoup running costs across all jobs.

Chuckit · Mar 17, 2008, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

I was under the impression US businesses made you sign service waivers as they do here in Canada.

As though that ever stopped anyone from suing. Americans will sue even if they know they have no prayer of winning, just to try and get the other guy to settle so you don't waste his time. One place I worked, a woman sued the company for violating pregnancy laws when she wasn't pregnant.

analogika · Mar 17, 2008, 05:23 PM

Didn't Cessna stop making planes for a number of years after having been bled dry by a woman suing the company for an airplane crashed by her husband pilot WHILE DRUNK?

turtle777 · Mar 17, 2008, 05:36 PM

On a side note: do you guys even know HOW MUCH money we could save on health insurance and cost if it wasn't for all those frivolous claims and lawsuits ?

-t

peeb · Mar 17, 2008, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

On a side note: do you guys even know HOW MUCH money we could save on health insurance and cost if it wasn't for all those frivolous claims and lawsuits ?

-t

Not much, in fact, when compared to waste from admin overhead and inefficiency in health insurance companies.