[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

So ... wait a tick here. What do you expect him to do?

Call a cab.

[Mrjinglesusa]

As much as people may not like it, you do not have any legal right to get sloppy drunk in a bar and then go and walk around in public. It IS against the law and the cops have every right to cite you for it.

Choices:

a) Call a cab

b) Have a sober friend drive you home

c) Stay home and get sloshed

[Athens]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

No, I'm saying that they are claiming they want to make the roads safer, but instead of busting people who actually cause accidents (inattentive drivers yapping on phones or failing to use signals and not checking their blindspots) they go after speeders. Why? Because it's easy, and it makes money. The fine for a turn signal ticket is much much much less than going 10 over, which I'd say at least 33% of the population does daily.

So what does it all boil down to? MONEY. They want to extract the maximum amount of money from the general populace to help pay for >drumroll< more cops on the streets, and higher payrolls. It's like a snowball. The truth is, they don't give a **** about safety on the roads, they just want big fines to pay the bills. And it's sad.

Speeders that get into a accident has lest chance of surviving and more chancing in causing more injury and less chance to avoid accident when something occurs. Mind you the cops out here mostly look for dangerous drivers. I speed all the time, 20 clicks over everywhere and I've had cops behind me while im speeding, I've over taking cops in the slow lane speeding and nothing.


And its not about money here, cops don't get a cent for the tickets they write. All money collected from traffic related offenses goes into the Provincial government. And it never ends up back in the hands of the cops.

[James L]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

You saw cops doing those things? Or you heard about them? And from who? Because I promise you in that same time period there's probably TWICE as many stories about them that aren't quite so 'save the children the cops are victims'-ish.

I personally witnessed all except for number 6, and number 6 involved one of my closest friends.

So, let's turn this around. Tell us about YOU. Tell us about YOUR education. Tell us about what YOU do for a living. Tell us about YOUR contributions to society.

My opinions are based on fact and personal experience. Your opinions appear based in anecdotal whining.

Tell us why we should give credibility to your statements.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'd like to see km's arrest ticket.

wouldn't be a arrest ticket but a bi-law ticket like a parking ticket. Unless Ontario does that different too lol

[Athens]

First 2 was a guy going about 30km faster then the limit and clipped something on the road

I was stuck on the bridge with my Camera at the time

[brian, obey the inline image rules --tooki]

These 2 taking with my Camera phone this woman was going about 20kph over the limit and clipped the curve




This last 2 was a guy pulled over and decided to pull a knife on 2 woman cops, he took the turn fast and almost lost control which is why I think they pulled him over. Took about 20 minutes at gun point before the guy dropped the knife and got out, another guy in the car tried to make a run for it and didn't get far.
[more oversize images removed --tooki]

[EnemyTerritoryish]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The responsible thing to do is to make sure if you plan on getting that drunk in public, to have someone sober to drive you home.

I know people get sloshed in bars, but you aren't really SUPPOSED to. You can drink at a bar in moderation and not get intoxicated to that point.

If you want to get that shitty drunk, stay at home. Cops can't arrest you in your living room just for being drunk.

Yet. I think it's pathetic they arrested him for being drunk while WALKING HOME with friends. Especially around the holiday season, that's just shitty. The holidays are a time for merriment.

[EnemyTerritoryish]

Originally Posted by James L

I personally witnessed all except for number 6, and number 6 involved one of my closest friends.

So, let's turn this around. Tell us about YOU. Tell us about YOUR education. Tell us about what YOU do for a living. Tell us about YOUR contributions to society.

My opinions are based on fact and personal experience. Your opinions appear based in anecdotal whining.

Tell us why we should give credibility to your statements.

I have told you what I've seen. As for me, I've been a member here since 1999 and I'm pretty well known. As for my contributions to society , I really don't see how that pertains to what I've seen cops do. I could be a clown, a construction worker, or a lawyer and it really wouldn't matter.

[EnemyTerritoryish]

Originally Posted by Athens

First 2 was a guy going about 30km faster then the limit and clipped something on the road

I was stuck on the bridge with my Camera at the time

Very stupid idea athens. If htey saw you taking pictures they might have run over to you and thrown you on the ground, then arrested you.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

a) You were admittedly drunk in a public place.

b) This is a misdemeanor and the cops had every right to cite you

c) I don't believe they just walked up to you and slapped cuffs on just because you fell (which is what you implied). You are leaving something out between the time you fell and the time the cops put handcuffs on you.

And, as others have said, being rude and disrespectful to a cop will NEVER help your situation.

There's one flaw with this argument: it assumes that the laws are fair and reasonable, that because it's illegal, it must be wrong. In fact, there are lots of laws that are wrong, things that are illegal that no sane person would consider wrong. (And, while few people know it, a jury can actually rule a person "not guilty" of doing something that's illegal, by virtue of deciding the law is unreasonable.)

tooki

[ghporter]

But still, being rude to a cop is not a smart thing to do, even if you're right and the cop is wrong. ESPECIALLY if the cop is wrong. Being extremely polite and cooperative when dealing with police officers is smart; it helps keep them calm, helps reduce the appearance of you being in the wrong (and appearance is EVERYTHING in a "public intoxication" situation), and more important than anything, keeps you under control. However unpleasant the situation may be, politeness and cooperation make it less so for everybody, which usually speeds up the whole process and often reduces the results significantly.

The guy with the knife that Athens posted about is STILL in jail, and now he's going to be charged with assaulting a police officer instead of just being stupid enough to drive too fast (and drunk?). His friend is worse off; he could have been "the victim of a drunk driver," but now he's in trouble too. Even if you're stopped cold for something you ARE doing wrong, cooperating once you're stopped is smarter than being unruly and nasty, or worse, running.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

Very stupid idea athens. If htey saw you taking pictures they might have run over to you and thrown you on the ground, then arrested you.

nope, I don't live in the US Thinks work a little different here I guess

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Athens

nope, I don't live in the US Thinks work a little different here I guess

They work differently in the U.S. too. It's just that his particular take is colored by his view of his own experiences...

And the user name is a thin nom de plume, too. Not fooling anyone...

[Athens]

Originally Posted by ghporter

But still, being rude to a cop is not a smart thing to do, even if you're right and the cop is wrong. ESPECIALLY if the cop is wrong. Being extremely polite and cooperative when dealing with police officers is smart; it helps keep them calm, helps reduce the appearance of you being in the wrong (and appearance is EVERYTHING in a "public intoxication" situation), and more important than anything, keeps you under control. However unpleasant the situation may be, politeness and cooperation make it less so for everybody, which usually speeds up the whole process and often reduces the results significantly.

The guy with the knife that Athens posted about is STILL in jail, and now he's going to be charged with assaulting a police officer instead of just being stupid enough to drive too fast (and drunk?). His friend is worse off; he could have been "the victim of a drunk driver," but now he's in trouble too. Even if you're stopped cold for something you ARE doing wrong, cooperating once you're stopped is smarter than being unruly and nasty, or worse, running.

He got out in 2 days, and was sentenced to 6 months in jail. He was driving a stolen car, dont think he was drunk. That was taking a year ago so hes prob out now. If he didn't pull the knife he prob would have had no jail time at all.

That flipped car, a year old kid was killed in it. To bad there wasn't a cop around that time to enforce traffic speed.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

Yet. I think it's pathetic they arrested him for being drunk while WALKING HOME with friends. Especially around the holiday season, that's just shitty. The holidays are a time for merriment.

Make ALL the excuses you want Rob.

[kmkkid]

Good ol'MacNN. Can always count on you guys to be condescending.

I love how people sit here and say they don't believe me. Guess what? Oh well. I wouldn't come on here to rant and make up lies. It's not like I was asking for legal advice, and being dishonest to get sympathy. I was just venting.

And how many of you guys can honestly say you HAVE NEVER taken a step outside with a couple beer in you, even to walk to the store to get more or whatever? Please. I had been drinking yes, however I wasn't sloshed. If I had been sloshed you think I'd have had the sense to even get a friend to walk with me, or even the sense to stop drinking at all? If I had been passing out drunk, ya, take me home, fine me whatever. This wasnt the case.

I was with a friend, mildly intoxicated, and I slipped on a patch of wattery ice. Cops seen it, came over, asked if I had been drinking, I said yes, BAM. "Turn around sir, you're under arrest". Thats the story. Believe it or not, I'm not having to defend myself here, this isn't court

As for what the ticket looks like. Well it's the standard yellow fine ticket.

Arresting officer
Arresting date
My name
my address
my birthdate
Place of arrest
Offense "Being intoxicated ina public place"
Contrary to: Liquor Licence Act of Ontario 31(4)
Officers signature
Officers badge #
Platoon #
Unit
Set fine amount: $50
Total Payable $65. (yes apparently there are taxes and service charges on fines even!)


Thats it

[Athens]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Good ol'MacNN. Can always count on you guys to be condescending.

I love how people sit here and say they don't believe me. Guess what? Oh well. I wouldn't come on here to rant and make up lies. It's not like I was asking for legal advice, and being dishonest to get sympathy. I was just venting.

And how many of you guys can honestly say you HAVE NEVER taken a step outside with a couple beer in you, even to walk to the store to get more or whatever? Please. I had been drinking yes, however I wasn't sloshed. If I had been sloshed you think I'd have had the sense to even get a friend to walk with me, or even the sense to stop drinking at all? If I had been passing out drunk, ya, take me home, fine me whatever. This wasnt the case.

I was with a friend, mildly intoxicated, and I slipped on a patch of wattery ice. Cops seen it, came over, asked if I had been drinking, I said yes, BAM. "Turn around sir, you're under arrest". Thats the story. Believe it or not, I'm not having to defend myself here, this isn't court

As for what the ticket looks like. Well it's the standard yellow fine ticket.

Arresting officer
Arresting date
My name
my address
my birthdate
Place of arrest
Offense "Being intoxicated ina public place"
Contrary to: Liquor Licence Act of Ontario 31(4)
Officers signature
Officers badge #
Platoon #
Unit
Set fine amount: $50
Total Payable $65. (yes apparently there are taxes and service charges on fines even!)


Thats it

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/S...l19_e.htm#BK32

Intoxication
(4) No person shall be in an intoxicated condition,
(a) in a place to which the general public is invited or permitted access; or
(b) in any part of a residence that is used in common by persons occupying more than one dwelling in the residence.
Arrest without warrant
(5) A police officer may arrest without warrant any person whom he or she finds contravening subsection (4) if, in the opinion of the police officer, to do so is necessary for the safety of any person. R.S.O. 1990, c. L.19, s. 31 (4, 5).

Seems pretty clear to me. Don't say you have to be sloshed. The cop thought for your safety it was necessary

You should send me a post card thanking him for his concern hehe

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Athens

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/S...l19_e.htm#BK32



Seems pretty clear to me. Don't say you have to be sloshed. The cop thought for your safety it was necessary

You should send me a post card thanking him for his concern hehe

Yeah, I'm sure thats why they cuffed me. I was perfectly safe walking with my friend.

Postcard? Nah. A swift kick in the nuts if I see him off duty would suffice

[sek929]

So technically you could be arrested on the slim piece of sidewalk that you step on after exiting the bar and before entering your cab.

Stupid laws may still be laws, but that does not make them any less retarted.

Why even have bars if you can't get drunk at them and walk home?

[Athens]

ask the people that smash windows, get into fights with others or walk into traffic, they are the ones that wreaked it for every one else.

[sek929]

Once again, I don't think kmkkid was doing any of the things you named.

He was drunk, having a good time, and being escorted home.

If he broke a window, started a fight, or walked into a busy street then, yes, by all means, arrest his ass.

I've been wasted in Boston too many times to count. Cops are allllll over the place too....but you know what? They are looking for troublemakers, not the normal drunken sheep.

[EnemyTerritoryish]

Originally Posted by sek929

Once again, I don't think kmkkid was doing any of the things you named.

He was drunk, having a good time, and being escorted home.

If he broke a window, started a fight, or walked into a busy street then, yes, by all means, arrest his ass.

I've been wasted in Boston too many times to count. Cops are allllll over the place too....but you know what? They are looking for troublemakers, not the normal drunken sheep.

Don't bother arguing with the fast and furious canadian. He likes to act high and mighty but admits to speeding all the time everywhere.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by sek929

Once again, I don't think kmkkid was doing any of the things you named.

He was drunk, having a good time, and being escorted home.

If he broke a window, started a fight, or walked into a busy street then, yes, by all means, arrest his ass.

I've been wasted in Boston too many times to count. Cops are allllll over the place too....but you know what? They are looking for troublemakers, not the normal drunken sheep.

If he had broken a Window, or gotten into a fight it would be to late, the deed would have been done. The point of arresting him while drunk in public is to prevent that. Case inpoint a escort and a single female at that dose not mean much. A few years ago in Vic 3 of us was sober, one was drunk he still managed to cause damage, and get into a fight and tried to stab some one.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

Don't bother arguing with the fast and furious canadian. He likes to act high and mighty but admits to speeding all the time everywhere.

And not one ticket

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Athens

If he had broken a Window, or gotten into a fight it would be to late, the deed would have been done. The point of arresting him while drunk in public is to prevent that. Case inpoint a escort and a single female at that dose not mean much. A few years ago in Vic 3 of us was sober, one was drunk he still managed to cause damage, and get into a fight and tried to stab some one.

So we are talking about the department of pre-crime here now...

Is booze alone enough evidence that said person was going to commit some sort of crime? I don't think so. I'm a passive and happy drunk, I've never broken a window or gotten into a fight while wasted. But If I was tanked and I slipped on some ice while my friend was bringing me home they now have the right to arrest me? I think not.

Either make bars illegal or just leave happy drunks alone.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by sek929

So we are talking about the department of pre-crime here now...

Is booze alone enough evidence that said person was going to commit some sort of crime? I don't think so. I'm a passive and happy drunk, I've never broken a window or gotten into a fight while wasted. But If I was tanked and I slipped on some ice while my friend was bringing me home they now have the right to arrest me? I think not.

Either make bars illegal or just leave happy drunks alone.

Or happy drunks should have enough money for a cab or a friend with a car to take them home so they are not breaking the law, being drunk in a public space

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by sek929

So we are talking about the department of pre-crime here now...

Is booze alone enough evidence that said person was going to commit some sort of crime? I don't think so.

Not at all. The statute says being obviously intoxicated in a public place is itself a crime. The reasoning behind it is probably, among other things, that many drunks are unruly, violent and dangerous to be around.

kmk, describe the area where you fell. Is it a well lit place with a wide sidewalk, or a narrow little dark place? It makes a difference in understanding how you might have been singled out for arrest.

[sek929]

The ability to spot drunkards out of a crowd means they usually have to be loud and acting outwardly drunk.

I can get totally ********d, and walk quietly home. But if I was stopped along the way I could be arrested......not really.

At least not around here. I haven't heard of a single person getting arrested for just being drunk in public without being disorderly as well. Which is what gives away one's drunkeness in the first place.

Either kmkkid is leaving out a part of the story or that particular cop stepped graciously outside his bounds to arrest him.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by sek929

The ability to spot drunkards out of a crowd means they usually have to be loud and acting outwardly drunk.

I can get totally ********d, and walk quietly home. But if I was stopped along the way I could be arrested......not really.

At least not around here. I haven't heard of a single person getting arrested for just being drunk in public without being disorderly as well. Which is what gives away one's drunkeness in the first place.

Either kmkkid is leaving out a part of the story or that particular cop stepped graciously outside his bounds to arrest him.

Well he did say the cops where already there for another matter and he fell down in front of them. I posted the rules they can arrest for and preventing self harm is one of them. I imagine the cops saw him fall down went to him, his speech as slurred, the cop already saw him fall down, and he said things he shouldn't have or in a tone that made the cop put the cuffs on. Since he was drunk he prob dosen't remember or realize it. Would be cool to get your friend on here to tell her version of the story

[EnemyTerritoryish]

Originally Posted by Athens

Or happy drunks should have enough money for a cab or a friend with a car to take them home so they are not breaking the law, being drunk in a public space

Answer me how they can get from the bar to a cab without being a in a public place, or getting from the cab to their residence without being on a public place.... and you'll see the problem with teh whole thing.

[EnemyTerritoryish]

Sek, quit arguing with these guys. They obviously never get drunk or high EVER outside of their apartments and are content speeding around while feeling justified by backing up asshole police officers on an internet forum. Whatever. you win at the internet morons. I love you big brother. And keep on arresting people while walking, I'm sure that will solve a lot of problems.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

Answer me how they can get from the bar to a cab without being a in a public place, or getting from the cab to their residence without being on a public place.... and you'll see the problem with teh whole thing.

Bingo.

I've been drunk in public hundreds of times, with large groups of drunks too. Cops have never bothered me though since I wasn't being unruly and/or destroying property.

Ever heard of bar hoping? I guess that is illegal too, but there are some laws that cops know not to enforce to the letter since it would be impossible and unjust (like picking one person out of a crowd and throwing the cuffs on him). Or even pulling one person over in a massive group of cars doing 80+, they don't because such mass "breaking the law" occurs constantly and is generally accepted as being OK in the bounds of common sense.

Seriously guys, when was the last time you went drinking in a city?

[EnemyTerritoryish]

Never. The majority of this forum is composed of dorks who live with their parents and haven't gotten laid. Sad but true. As for me...eh... December 23rd.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by sek929

Bingo.

I've been drunk in public hundreds of times, with large groups of drunks too. Cops have never bothered me though since I wasn't being unruly and/or destroying property.

Ever heard of bar hoping? I guess that is illegal too, but there are some laws that cops know not to enforce to the letter since it would be impossible and unjust (like picking one person out of a crowd and throwing the cuffs on him). Or even pulling one person over in a massive group of cars doing 80+, they don't because such mass "breaking the law" occurs constantly and is generally accepted as being OK in the bounds of common sense.

Seriously guys, when was the last time you went drinking in a city?

I don't know about Ontario, in BC its 25 feet from the bar and home which is more then enough to get in a cab or walk to your door.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

Sek, quit arguing with these guys. They obviously never get drunk or high EVER outside of their apartments and are content speeding around while feeling justified by backing up asshole police officers on an internet forum. Whatever. you win at the internet morons. I love you big brother. And keep on arresting people while walking, I'm sure that will solve a lot of problems.

from 17 to 22 I would get sloshed a couple times a week, my fav mix was a Double Gulp 30% rootbeer pop, 20% rootbeer slurpee to keep it cold and 50% absolute vodka. Would finish one in less then a hour. One time we climbed on top of a indoor tennis court and brought lawn chairs up with us. I think I've had over 300 bucks in booze pored out by cops over the years.

One night me and another friend had to practically carry a friend home 7 blocks up hill, and this was in front of the cops. The one time I ended up in the drunk tank, and of course no ticket cuz this was in the burbs, I left early and walked into traffic, well stumbled off the sidewalk onto the road. Wasn't in danger and no one was at home to receive me so I had to sleep that off in a cell.

So don't even try to say I don't get drunk. I don't as much as I used to because of money issues.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by EnemyTerritoryish

Never. The majority of this forum is composed of dorks who live with their parents and haven't gotten laid. Sad but true. As for me...eh... December 23rd.

Mom's and Hamsters don't count

[sek929]

So you did stupid sh!t and you got caught for it.

Not once in your post did you get arrested for falling down on ICE no less.

[Athens]

which is why I think his story has a hole in it.

[sek929]

I've said that as well, but we aren't here to make up what we think happened.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I've been to wasted to stand up sometimes and been around cops. The usually just ask if my friends can get me home safe, and let us on our way.

If I started to call him a pig and proceed to try and punch him in the groin, then yeah, I'd be heading for a cell.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Not at all. The statute says being obviously intoxicated in a public place is itself a crime. The reasoning behind it is probably, among other things, that many drunks are unruly, violent and dangerous to be around.

Then the law should outlaw being unruly, violent, and dangerous to be around. It's not OK to arrest people for doing something that might cause someone else be unruly, violent, or dangerous to be around.

tooki

[Volks]

Police aren't employed to stop crime. They are there to manage crime. Managing anything takes time and money. So, they have to support their racket by ticketing (and arresting) as many people as they can.

[Volks]

Police aren't employed to stop crime. They are there to manage crime. Managing anything takes time and money. So, they have to support their racket by ticketing (and arresting) as many people as they can.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by tooki

Then the law should outlaw being unruly, violent, and dangerous to be around. It's not OK to arrest people because someone else might be unruly, violent, or dangerous to be around.

tooki

It is outlawed, people that are unruly, violent and dangerous to be around get arrested

[sek929]

Exactly Tooki.

I had a friend when I was in HS, he was black and veeeeery well off (everyone in my area is) one night at a bar in Providence he was assaulted by two cops who claimed he was being drunk and disorderly (i have no doubt he was drunk). He was beaten within two inches of his life and left outside the bar.

A few weeks later and several officers went down for a hate crime against this man.

I'm not saying all cops are like this, but some are.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by tooki

Then the law should outlaw being unruly, violent, and dangerous to be around. It's not OK to arrest people because someone else might be unruly, violent, or dangerous to be around.

tooki

It is outlawed, people that are unruly, violent and dangerous to be around get arrested

[sek929]

Exactly Tooki.

I had a friend when I was in HS, he was black and veeeeery well off (everyone in my area is) one night at a bar in Providence he was assaulted by two cops who claimed he was being drunk and disorderly (i have no doubt he was drunk). He was beaten within two inches of his life and left outside the bar.

A few weeks later and several officers went down for a hate crime against this man.

I'm not saying all cops are like this, but some are.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by tooki

Then the law should outlaw being unruly, violent, and dangerous to be around. It's not OK to arrest people because someone else might be unruly, violent, or dangerous to be around.

tooki

It is illegal to be unruly, violent and dangerous and you do get arrested for that. Depending on how violent and dangerous charged with a crime too.

[Athens]

Forum messup

[Athens]

forum messup

[Athens]

forum messup