[Phredd]

I haven't seen this posted yet:

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Apple Inc. (AAPL) is in the midst of developing an offering with the major music labels to sell ringers to iPhone users via iTunes, multiple sources familiar with the situation said, The New York Post reported in its Friday editions.

The service - expected to be unveiled when Apple announces its new lineup of iPods - would allow users to turn almost any song sold through iTunes into a ringtone for an additional fee, the paper reported.

[Big Mac]

Cool.

[analogika]

Purchased songs only "for an additional fee"????

The question is whether it will allow CD-ripped songs to be converted FOR NO ADDITIONAL FEE.

Because, like, I've already paid for those, and I'd really like to continue using the .mp3 snippet I've been using as a ringtone for years.

[MacinTommy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

The question is whether it will allow CD-ripped songs to be converted FOR NO ADDITIONAL FEE.
Because, like, I've already paid for those, and I'd really like to continue using the .mp3 snippet I've been using as a ringtone for years.

My thoughts exactly... when I had my SLVR I used garage band to splice up my own ringtones... ANY song/noise etc that I wanted could become a ringtone.. It was nice because I could just send it to my phone via bluetooth. This is going to irritate the sh*t out of me if they charge extra for songs that you already purchased...

[-Q-]

You could also use this: Ambrosia Software, Inc. -- utilities/itoner

[icruise]

I think this is a bit of a tricky issue, since the license you get when you buy a song from iTunes doesn't include the right to use the songs as ringtones (although I don't think this was in the user agreement from the very beginning).

But since so many phones allow you to use any MP3 file as a ringtone, I think they should allow that as well, and make the pay ringtone service be more of a convenience. Not that I really believe this will happen.

[::maroma::]

I just hope they offer other ring tones for download, like the one used in the commercials as well as other ones. I really dislike songs as ring tones, and I'm tired of the ones on the iPhone. I will be very sad if they don't have "normal" ring tones available for download as well.

[moki]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Because, like, I've already paid for those, and I'd really like to continue using the .mp3 snippet I've been using as a ringtone for years.

iToner will let you use your mp3 as a custom ringtone for your iPhone:

Ambrosia Software, Inc. -- utilities/itoner

Mine has Borat on it... that and "Low Rider" for when my wife calls.

[analogika]

Except that $15 is kind of too much for something I do exactly once.

[moki]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Except that $15 is kind of too much for something I do exactly once.

Sure... then you can use iToner to do it once, and be on your merry way. It's completely free if you just toss one ringtone on your iPhone and never use it again.

[analogika]

That sounds okay, then.

If I have to reset the iPhone, the ringtone is gone, right?

Or is this something that will likely be backed up via iTunes once the feature becomes officially available? (I suspect we just don't know yet, right?)

Of course, the software may be completely obsoleted on September 5th...

[moki]

Originally Posted by analogika 

That sounds okay, then.

If I have to reset the iPhone, the ringtone is gone, right?

If by reset you mean flatline your iPhone, yeah, your ringtones will get deleted off of the iPhone just as your photos would.

Or is this something that will likely be backed up via iTunes once the feature becomes officially available? (I suspect we just don't know yet, right?)

Yep, it should work fine with that once iTunes supports it.

Of course, the software may be completely obsoleted on September 5th...

Could be... my guess is Apple will charge for the ringtones, but it's possible they will pleasantly surprise everyone!

[AC Rempt]

It looks like iToner simply transfers an MP3 over to the ring tones list, but it doesn't edit the file, right? In other words, you have a whole song as a ring tone as opposed to part of a song? I guess what I'm wondering then is if the Apple service would provide a snippet of the song, like the refrain, set to repeat.

Sorry if this is a goofy question as I don't really know a great deal about ring tones. I've always used what came with my phone, but I would love to be able to use use some songs. I just don't wanna have to edit them all the time.

[moki]

Originally Posted by AC Rempt 

It looks like iToner simply transfers an MP3 over to the ring tones list, but it doesn't edit the file, right? In other words, you have a whole song as a ring tone as opposed to part of a song? I guess what I'm wondering then is if the Apple service would provide a snippet of the song, like the refrain, set to repeat.

Sorry if this is a goofy question as I don't really know a great deal about ring tones. I've always used what came with my phone, but I would love to be able to use use some songs. I just don't wanna have to edit them all the time.

That's 100% correct -- though you can use free tools like Amadeus, QuickTime, GarageBand, etc. to edit your audio files, and then use iToner to upload them seamlessly to your iPhone.

We did version 1.0.0 to put a stake into the ground; we'll be looking into additional features like an editor, BlueTooth support for other phones, etc. in future versions.

[Angelo78]

I'll also recommend Ambrosia's iToner. I just purchased it and the ring tones work just as advertised. Nice job!

[AC Rempt]

Originally Posted by moki 

That's 100% correct -- though you can use free tools like Amadeus, QuickTime, GarageBand, etc. to edit your audio files, and then use iToner to upload them seamlessly to your iPhone.

We did version 1.0.0 to put a stake into the ground; we'll be looking into additional features like an editor, BlueTooth support for other phones, etc. in future versions.

Wow, straight from the Man! I've never played with sound files, so it might be fine to try. I can use GarageBand? I don't think I've opened that app since version 1, but I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out. Okay, I'll download the app later, and give it a whirl, then y'al can get a novice's point of view.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I think this is a bit of a tricky issue, since the license you get when you buy a song from iTunes doesn't include the right to use the songs as ringtones (although I don't think this was in the user agreement from the very beginning).

But since so many phones allow you to use any MP3 file as a ringtone, I think they should allow that as well, and make the pay ringtone service be more of a convenience. Not that I really believe this will happen.

Interesting...I would think that since you bought the file or song it is your as long as you don't distribute to others freely or for a charge. Also the ring tome could be used by the purchaser under free use if the song is under 30 seconds. I am going to try and find this out for sure. I don't know if US copyrite laws for music include their use as ringtones.

[AC Rempt]

You also have to question the enforcement end to this. Are they really going to be able to discover your "crime" and then bother to prosecute for two or three ring tones? I now the music industry is notorious for suing parents and the like for kids downloading music, but how many did they actually go after? And the music I would use is already downloaded, so how would they know I'm using it for a ring tone?

I also don't think this is a crime in the least, regardless of what the music industry says, or better said, I don't think it's stealing. Ring tones made from music I legally own is the same thing, in my mind, as making a mix CD. As long as I'm not making a prophet off of the music, what can it possibly matter except they are losing out on a $1.99 (let's say) I wouldn't spend on a ring tone any damn way.

[stevesnj]

I pulled this from the US copryrite office in response to the RIAA's request that ringtones should fall under distribution rights of the music company right to be paid for ring tones made from a song. SOURCE: Federal Register: Mechanical and Digital Phonorecord Delivery Rate Adjustment

IX. Conditions and Limitations

As noted above, the Copyright Royalty Board asked the Register to address the legal conditions and/or limitations that would apply to ringtones if such works were found to DPDs under Section 115 of the Act.

RIAA asserts that the same conditions and limitations that apply to other phonorecords apply to ringtones. It posits that first use of the song under the authority of the copyright owner, notice, and payment of royalties, would be among the statutory conditions that would apply to the licensing of ringtones.136

Copyright Owners assert that there is no need for any limitations or conditions on the licensing of ringtones under Section 115, as all ringtones are excluded from the reach of the statute as a matter of law. They note, however, that if the Register were to conclude that some ringtones are subject to statutory licensing, the appropriate scope of such licensing would involve factual issues. Copyright Owners state that in this case, the Copyright Royalty Boards‘ August 18, 2006 Order prohibited the submission of factual material that is required to make a reasoned determination of conditions on the licensing of ringtones within Section 115. They assert that the Copyright Royalty Boards‘ decision not to permit the submission of factual materials makes it “impossible to delineate” any informed conditions or limitations on the statutory licensing of ringtones.137

Analysis. We believe that Section 115’s general requirements are applicable to all types of ringtones (monophonic, polyphonic, or mastertone). This applies to mastertones that are simple excerpts of the underlying musical work, ringtones (monophonic, polyphonic, and mastertones) that are not adjudged to be derivative works, and those ringtones that do not change the basic melody or fundamental character of the work. For newly created ringtones that have not been distributed to the public, and that fall outside the scope of the statute because they are derivative works or for any other reason outlined above, the Section 115 provisions do not apply. A commercial license is required to make and distribute those types of ringtones. There will, of course, be some instances where the status of a ringtone (monophonic, polyphonic, and mastertones) for Section 115 purposes is unclear. A judicial determination would be required where such mixed question of fact and law are present.

While we cannot delineate a litmus test that will in every case determine specifically whether a particular ringtone is or is not within the scope of the statutory license, the guidance offered above is sufficient for purposes of this proceeding. In general, a ringtone will fall within the scope of the compulsory license unless it has so altered the musical composition as to constitute a derivative work. Simply excerpting a single portion of a licensed sound recording of a musical composition will not constitute the making of a derivative work. It is clear that many, but not all, ringtones will fall within the scope of the Section 115 license. Therefore, it is appropriate for the Copyright Royalty Judges to determine royalties to be payable for the making and distribution of ringtones under the compulsory license.

Dated: October 16, 2006
Marybeth Peters,
Register of Copyrights.

[icruise]

From here.

Usage Rules

(i) Your use of the Products is conditioned upon your prior acceptance of the terms of this Agreement.

(ii) You shall be authorized to use the Products only for personal, noncommercial use.

(iii) You shall be authorized to use the Products on five Apple-authorized devices at any time.

(iv) You shall be able to store Products from up to five different Accounts on certain devices, such as an iPod, at a time.

(v) You shall be authorised to burn an audio playlist up to seven times.

(vi) You shall not be entitled to burn Video Products.

(vii) You shall be entitled to export, burn (if applicable) or copy Products solely for personal, noncommercial use.

(viii) You may not use Products as a musical “ringer” in connection with phone calls.

(ix) Any burning (if applicable) or exporting capabilities are solely an accommodation to you and shall not constitute a grant or waiver (or other limitation or implication) of any rights of the copyright owners in any audio or video content, sound recording, underlying musical composition, or artwork embodied in any Product.

(x) You agree that you will not attempt to, or encourage or assist any other person to, circumvent or modify any security technology or software that is part of the Service or used to administer the Usage Rules.

(xi) The delivery of Products does not transfer to you any commercial or promotional use rights in the Products.

(xii) iTunes Plus Products do not contain security technology that limits y our usage of such Products, and Usage Rules (iii) – (vi) do not apply to iTunes Plus Products. You may copy, store and burn iTunes Plus Products as reasonably necessary for personal, noncommercial use.

[AC Rempt]

So I can't legally make a ring tone from a song I bought and paid for. Okay. So it's illegal, but is it wrong?

Anyway, I can't figure out how to edit a track in GarageBand, so it's a moot point for me right now.



EDIT: Oops, as soon as I posted this, I figured it out. Now I'm in trouble . . .

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by AC Rempt 

So I can't legally make a ring tone from a song I bought and paid for. Okay. So it's illegal, but is it wrong?

Anyway, I can't figure out how to edit a track in GarageBand, so it's a moot point for me right now.



EDIT: Oops, as soon as I posted this, I figured it out. Now I'm in trouble . . .

Well the RIAA has a right to protect musicians work but the kickback they must get to do this work must be in the hundreds of millions. Heck they sue old ladies and kids!

[AC Rempt]

I'm not sure I believe this is about the poor, struggling artist as much as it is guaranteeing a revenue stream for the companies. Sorry, just cynical that way. In the end, I'm not that in love with the idea of ring tones that I'm willing to A) pay that much, B) break the law.

And iToner is a breeze to use! In fact, the most difficult part for me was figuring out GarageBand. Once I made the file, the rest was a snap. The only suggestion would be to add something that indicates the syncing process is successfully completed. I thought I was done, so I unplugged my iPhone, but a warning came up to plug it back in. I thought for sure the process wasn't finished as a result, but it was.

It's a great piece of software.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by moki 

That's 100% correct -- though you can use free tools like Amadeus, QuickTime, GarageBand, etc. to edit your audio files

You can do it right within iTunes, as well - just click on the song, Get Info --> Options --> set start and end points, and then re-convert the song to whatever format using the Advanced... menu.

Change start and end points back, and done.

[Moonray]

For consumers who don't want to design personalized ringtones, Apple will also sell traditional music ringtones.

I never thought Apple would sink that low and sell ringtones.

-

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by AC Rempt 

So I can't legally make a ring tone from a song I bought and paid for. Okay. So it's illegal, but is it wrong?

Anyway, I can't figure out how to edit a track in GarageBand, so it's a moot point for me right now.



EDIT: Oops, as soon as I posted this, I figured it out. Now I'm in trouble . . .

What I want to know is if I paid $.99 or $1.29 for it, why can't I use it for what I want. I mean, obviously I can see giving it away and how that's bad, but come on, if I want to use it with my Apple iPhone, I should be able to.

[icruise]

Because the sad truth bout digital music (and video and software) is that you don't own it -- you just have a limited license to it.

[Moonray]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Because the sad truth bout digital music (and video and software) is that you don't own it -- you just have a limited license to it.

And this limited license that allows me to listen to it any time every day would not allow me to listen to a part of it at some time of some day when I get a phone call?

[icruise]

Well, I'm not arguing that it's right. I think it's dumb.

[Moonray]

phewwww...

-

[AC Rempt]

More than dumb, it's greedy. All the companies see is a revenue stream. I'm not going to support it, so I guess it's vanilla ring tones for me.

[icruise]

Even if you want to be totally legal and abide by the user agreement, there's nothing stopping you from using MP3s taken from CDs if you use something like iToner.

[icruise]

By the way, I'm very impressed with iToner. Being able to just sync an iTunes playlist and then use those songs as ringtones is great. Moki, can you comment on how this is possible without hacking? Did Apple help you at all?

[stevesnj]

well for those that are wondering why in the world Apple would sell Ringtones...it's called Profit and how to make the most of it. It's just business pure and simple. Apple doesn't make products just to make us feel good, its also to make money. Just seems like a cheesy way to do it but oh well it's their company.

[Moonray]

And some companies sell their reputation.

-

[AC Rempt]

Originally Posted by icruise 

By the way, I'm very impressed with iToner. Being able to just sync an iTunes playlist and then use those songs as ringtones is great. Moki, can you comment on how this is possible without hacking? Did Apple help you at all?

Can you use protected songs downloaded from iTunes?

And yeah, Apple is free to sell ring tones all they want, as are these other companies. More power to them, but at the same time, I don't choose to play along with their silly rules.

If I can use songs from CDs I own, then I might be more inclined to play with this process some more, but I own far fewer CDs these days than I do downloaded music files.

[plamparello]

Is this service not out yet or am I dumb and just can't find it?

[icruise]

It hasn't really launched yet.

[Nodnarb]

Kind of weird that they're not giving us a date, and the last iTunes "upgrades" were to include this feature, even though it's coming "soon"

I love iToner, but I may do the iTunes thing with a song or two just to try it and get a nice, faded ringtone for my general ringtone. But for uploading a ton all the time and playing around and changing them, iToner is great.

Now they just need to allow you to make different noises for SMS, email, whatever you wan't (not saying you should have a song playing everytime you get an SMS, but some may choose other sound effects as opposed to a "ding")

[icruise]

Yeah, I really wish you could get a longer and louder sound for email notification. Even with the volume all the way up, I usually feel (or hear, if it's on a table) the vibration feature more than the actual notification sound.

[theDreamer]

I agree, I have come accustomed to the ding sound I always forget that is my noise for an SMS or email. Also I want different ring tones, or noises, for email v. SMS so I know the difference.
I think I will buy a couple of ring tones, even though I may already own the song, so I can jump back and forth to different ones. Though it would be great if we could use our own songs, paying 99 cents would be fine if I can cut and edit them and add them without problems.

[imemikey]

all you have to do is convert the song into a AAC, rename the file to a m4r, put it into the ringtone folder under itunes. for people who have itunes 7.4.1, you have to change the format back to a m4a after it goes into the ringtone folder


link from macrumors
MacRumors iPhone Blog: Free Custom Ringtones in iTunes 7.4.1 (Update: Windows Instructions)

[theDreamer]

I have tried that and it does not work...I am using a PC, but I might this again tonight with a different song.
I was able to get the 7.4 version to work, but I had to reset my phone that night and I hit the update on iTunes and then screwed myself.

Problem is now I have a couple of X songs in my ring tone area and none in my ring tones folder. I will try a different song and see if that works.

Edit: After a quick read through those instructions I figured out what I did wrong, never closed iTunes apparently. Now I have high hopes of getting this to work.

[imemikey]

try again, ive changed my ringtone with music and have done it for my friends iphones as well

[theDreamer]

Thank you for the link.
I just showed a few of my friends (on PCs also) who did not hear about the ring tone thing until I told them, and then it was to late. They are happy to hear this work around has popped up and they hope to get things working for themselves.

One quick questions. Say I get a ring tone on to the phone, with ever resetting can Apple remove it somehow? Firmware perhaps or no?