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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Which Powerbook will you buy?

Which Powerbook will you buy?
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Surfer
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May 29, 2002, 05:35 PM
 
Barefeats released some benchmarks that now include the 667 version!! Looks like the 667 version is a great deal!!! Same speed as an 800 MHz PowerMac and the Powerbook 800 is only 12% faster, should be 20%!

<a href="http://www.barefeats.com/pb8.html" target="_blank">http://www.barefeats.com/pb8.html</a>

So what Powerbook will you get?

     
seanyepez
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May 29, 2002, 06:02 PM
 
No, it shouldn't be 20% faster. Take into consideration that the machine uses the same bus speed, video chipset, and memory. The performance of the 800-megahertz PowerBook can't be 20% faster. Stuff still needs to go through the same, 133-megahertz bus.
     
Surfer  (op)
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May 29, 2002, 06:08 PM
 
Yes that is true... 20% is looking MHz wise, but as you said there is more to speed than just CPU speed...



<small>[ 05-29-2002, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Surfer ]</small>
     
1
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May 29, 2002, 06:53 PM
 
That article made me very happy I got the 667. Much better bang for the buck than the 800 IMHO.

<small>[ 05-29-2002, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: 1 ]</small>
     
I Have Questions
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May 29, 2002, 07:33 PM
 
I will get the first PB revision after 10.2 is introduced... early fall maybe?
     
seanyepez
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May 29, 2002, 08:55 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1:
<strong>That article made me very happy I got the 667. Much better bang for the buck than the 800 IMHO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Then again, the best of the best comes at an extremely high premium relative to the second best most of the time. What's the difference between a full-grain leather ottoman and one made from something else? They both work.

Furniture works the same way.
     
wataru
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May 29, 2002, 08:55 PM
 
I don't care! I want the 800 because it's a pretty number!
     
iChristopher
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May 29, 2002, 09:21 PM
 
Hey, they don't paint the MHz on the lid or anything, and despite my wild dreams no chick has ever said, "Hot notebook fella. How fast is that baby, and if you say at least 800MHz then I want you right here right now." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I think Apple is going to miss out on some sales because most people in the market will not realize that the new 667 is any faster than the old one. Hell, most salesmen I talk to don't even realize how much faster it is, and that includes at least one guy at my local Apple Store.

There has to be lots of people out there that can't afford an 800MHz, but won't bother going to the 667 DVI because their perception is that it's just not much faster.

<small>[ 05-29-2002, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: iChristopher ]</small>
TiBook 667 DVI - 20" Cinema Display - 20GB iPod
     
HamSandwich
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May 30, 2002, 04:27 AM
 
Well, the thing is, that I have already bought a PowerBook 667 DVI, what to vote for then?
     
mrwalker
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May 30, 2002, 07:15 AM
 
I'm happy - I was just about to go for a discounted 667 VGA but went for the 667 DVI at the last minute. Looks like quake would have been unplayable on the VGA one.

- mrwalker
     
iChristopher
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May 30, 2002, 10:36 PM
 
Not sure what came over me, but I have a 667 DVI sitting about 12 ft. from me - still unopened.

I break every PB I ever use, so I'm not sure I want to open it...
TiBook 667 DVI - 20" Cinema Display - 20GB iPod
     
Cellery
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May 31, 2002, 02:31 AM
 
I should have waited until this revision, but my rev. B 667 is holding up well. Just waiting for the next new PowerBook enclosure now...
     
sMACk
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May 31, 2002, 02:50 PM
 
While I don't want to rain on this 667 love-fest, you may be over looking the fact that the 800mhz is actually a better value for those who need the extra features of the 800mhz. For example the 800mhz comes with:
� 512k memory vs 256k
� 40 gig hard drive vs 30 gig
� airport card
So when you add that all up the 800mhz is only $350 more than the 667mhz. Because I need the memory, harddrive space and airport card, the 800mhz really is the better value.

<small>[ 05-31-2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: sMACk ]</small>
     
mrmister
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May 31, 2002, 05:11 PM
 
What he said. In general it is almost always more sensible to buy the low-end PowerBooks...I mean, who REALLY needs the power in a laptop? Oh, I know...now everyone will write in. I'll fess up--I don't *need* this PB, but since I had a sweet upgrade path (sold my old PB at a great price and had the money) I wanted the best. If you are going to buy a sexy PowerBook, you are likely to be the kind of person who wants the top one.

So unless you have an Airport card laying around and don't need more than 30 gigs, the low-end is a great deal...but those hidden costs really mount up. I can't imagine a laptop without Airport at this point, so it's just a given for me.
     
wataru
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Jun 1, 2002, 01:28 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by sMACk:
<strong> � 512k memory vs 256k</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Wow, no wonder PCs are so much better! Macs only come with at most 512k RAM!
     
sMACk
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Jun 1, 2002, 04:04 AM
 
whoops, i meant 512mb <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />
     
rm199
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Jun 1, 2002, 05:31 AM
 
Im on my first mac after a lifetime on everything else, and its a dvi 667. I could have got the 800 but i decided a new PB would be out in the near future and im more likely to upgrade to that after 'saving' 600� and getting the 667

Anyway its great, leaves my P3-800 laptop for dead. Only bad points is that office.X is slow as hell, but it cant be perfect.

RM
     
urrl5201
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Jun 1, 2002, 12:13 PM
 
Since I already had a 48 gig hard drive from my 500 Mhz and I don't see needing airport except for me to show off to folks, I think my new 667 DVI was not just the best but the only choice. I got an extra 256 RAM from transintl.com which has 222 speed code, the 512's only come in 333 speed code flavor. And now that I've figured out how to optimize the HD with Norton speed disk, this baby is a real screamer.
...Or is that just me screaming for joy?

<small>[ 06-01-2002, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: urrl5201 ]</small>
     
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Jun 1, 2002, 01:38 PM
 
Did your 667 come with CL2 RAM from Apple? Mine came with CL3, and I haven't heard of any coming with the faster RAM... that would make your CL2 RAM run at the slower speed I'm afraid.

Unless you were lucky and did get the CL2 stuff from Apple...
     
Buckaroo
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Jun 2, 2002, 11:16 AM
 
Well, I just got my new PowerBook G4 800.

Setup for the Airport was a little confusing, but I finally got it to work.

This is nice.
     
milhous
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Jun 2, 2002, 03:10 PM
 
No PowerBooks for me until:

*PowerBook is past the 1 Ghz barrier
*high powered GPU (Nvidia GeForce 4, 5 w/ 64-128MB VRAM)
*DDR SDRAM subsystem

I do like the Ti form factor though, but they better start anodizing the casing instead of painting it!

It looks like I'll be waiting a while for my wish list to come true. But that's alright though, I have my trusty *creaky* Pismo 500 that runs like a champ.
F = ma
     
sMACk
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Jun 2, 2002, 05:12 PM
 
Setting up the airport was tricky for me also but now I realize that it really is simple, I just didn't know what I was doing.

Airport is one of those things that you don't think you need until you actually have it. Computing anywhere in the house is really useful in many ways you wouldn't think of at first (I'm writing this on my deck right now). I bought a laptop to be mobile, why teather it with an internet cable? My office has airport as well so it really is indispensible for me. And you get $100 off a base station with a new PowerBook which makes it an even better value.
     
parsec_kadets
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Jun 2, 2002, 06:30 PM
 
I voted to keep my current one. But if the economy didn't suck right now and I could find a job my answer would be different. By the way, anyone want to give a job to a guy who just graduated college with a BS in CS? No? That's what I thought.
     
rm199
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Jun 3, 2002, 11:15 AM
 
well its been a full week of business use of the new 667/dvi and i couldnt recommend it higher. now im spending the long weekend playing RTCW and im finding it hard to beleive my new work tool is pushing out these sorts of graphics.

you lot figured out what personal computer was best a long time ago thats all i can say...

RM
     
urrl5201
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Jun 3, 2002, 12:34 PM
 
You are right Abyss, I thought Apple used the best for the money you pay, but I checked and it is only CL3 speed code for the 256 mem. Thought sure they used the 222 in my old 500, guess maybe not. Well, got my credit card ready for another 256 CL2 at transintl.com.

There are no stats on 222 vs 333 speed code are there???
     
Surfer  (op)
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Jun 3, 2002, 01:05 PM
 
Can soemone please explain what the differences are between the two speed codes? Is it really such a large difference?

Thanks
     
iChristopher
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Jun 3, 2002, 10:28 PM
 
Right on, fellow DVI user...

The DVI's are what the TiBooks should have been on day one. I think Apple put a ton of effort in to tightening up this baby, so I wouldn't expect a new body for at least 6-12 months at a minimum.

I went 667 and feel like that was the better value for my money. If Apple speed bumps the Ti's at MWNY, then the 800MHz model will have farther to drop in value and much faster. Look what happened to the old 667's. My buddy spent $3600 on a 667 six months ago and he would probably be lucky to get $2200 - $2300 for it today.

I care about this kind of thing because I almost always use my current Mac to finance the purchase of the next Mac. I try to do this right around product annoucements so I can extract the maximum value out of the old machine and just pay the difference on the new one. If you have to have the latest and greatest all the time, and money IS an issue - then this is the best way to go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by rm199:
<strong>well its been a full week of business use of the new 667/dvi and i couldnt recommend it higher. now im spending the long weekend playing RTCW and im finding it hard to beleive my new work tool is pushing out these sorts of graphics.

you lot figured out what personal computer was best a long time ago thats all i can say...

RM</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">
TiBook 667 DVI - 20" Cinema Display - 20GB iPod
     
seanyepez
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Jun 3, 2002, 11:34 PM
 
Now that Apple's reinstated the old pricing scheme from the original TiBooks and PowerBook G3's, I think the 667-megahertz 'Book is the better buy.
     
sMACk
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Jun 4, 2002, 02:38 AM
 
I'm sorry iChristopher but I'm just not following your logic. You think that when faster PBs are announced the 800s are going to fall, say from $3000 to $2000 but somehow the 667s are only going fall from $2500 to $2000? I don't buy it, I believe you got it backwards because right now the 800 is cutting edge, fist tier technology, the 667 is second tier technology. Devaluation in the tech industry compounds. From 1st tier to 2nd tier technology you may see a 30% devaluation but from 2nd tier to 3rd tier you'll see an even greater devaluation, like 50%. Then from 3rd tier to 4th you seen an even greater devaluation and so on. That's why they always say buy the best technology you can afford. Now I'm not saying the 667 isn't a good deal for those who only need the basic model, I'm just saying you logic is flawed IMHO.
     
Brian Jewett
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Jun 4, 2002, 01:49 PM
 
Well, I bought the 800 MHz, which is sitting next to me doing the wireless thing at work (which is easy to use, by the way, and I'm in a mostly PC or Linux environment). Why 800? My reasoning was this. I actually think the ibook would do 75% of the things I'd like to do. No doubt the Ti667 would be a great choice too. But I'm interested in video editing. The current minimum recommended equip for Final Cut Pro 3 is a 667 Mhz TiBook and 384 (?) MB ram. I'd feel a little nervous buying on the edge. I can see Jobs and Co. saying "let's ramp it up" and 512 MB ram and 800 MHz needed down the road. I bought the machine to give myself some breathing room. That said, people using 667 say FCP runs great now, and probably will for some time.

The other thought was: compared to Athlon/Intel processor speeds, the mac speeds are slow and slower. I went for slow. "Slow" is plenty fast enough for most of what I do, and serious computing takes advantage of altivec, which makes up for much of the difference (FCP uses it; Photoshop uses it; Absoft compilers can be configured to use it). So I've bought a machine that should last me awhile. I don't expect to sell this machine for a long time, so resale value is a moot point. My next box will be a 1.5-2 GHz Powermac desktop with a superdrive and 400 MHz memory (hopefully this is less than a year away...hello, Apple?)

By the way, if you haven't used Mac OS X, and have used Linux/Unix in the past, you will be blown away. PC users have at best dual boot Linux/Windows, and it works for them, but: we have both. Yes!

Brian
     
Zytryx
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Jun 4, 2002, 02:11 PM
 
Well, when you want to run 3D modeling software, you buy an 800, any bit of speed helps, but the 667 is a nice laptop. I love my 800 though!

Z
     
urrl5201
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Jun 4, 2002, 02:28 PM
 
Though my usual philosophy is get the very best available, I realized my old 500 Mhz Ti edited pretty well, and since the 667 DVI is right on the heels of the 800 when it comes to gameplay, and since I already have a 48 Gig Hard drive from my old 500 Ti, and since I hate paying thru the nose for the latest, greatest model, and since the only reason I would get Airport is to show off to others and never really use it myself, and since the difference between the 667 and the 800 according to Bare feats is only about 12 per cent, for me the new 667 DVI was a no-brainer. I bought 256 MB extra RAM for $99 from transintl.com

For me it is better to wait for a real change, both structurally and performance wise in a future version before paying thru the nose.

'Nuff said.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: urrl5201 ]</small>
     
mrwalker
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Jun 4, 2002, 08:19 PM
 
My new 677 DVI arrived today; I can finally join the club

I'm currently importing from my digital camera, copying a CD to mp3, playing the CD I just copied & typing this. That's the sort of performance I was hoping for & there still seems to be some in reserve!

The 800 wasn't an option - I sold all of my wintel stuff to buy this and needed the computer right away. All I need now is the bluetooth dongle to speak to my T39.
     
iChristopher
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Jun 4, 2002, 10:34 PM
 
My numbers might be off, but I don't think the logic is flawed. I believe you stand to lose more money on the high-end model if your intent is to upgrade within about 12-months of purchase.
TiBook 667 DVI - 20" Cinema Display - 20GB iPod
     
wataru
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Jun 6, 2002, 01:43 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Brian Jewett:
<strong>The current minimum recommended equip for Final Cut Pro 3 is a 667 Mhz TiBook and 384 (?) MB ram. I'd feel a little nervous buying on the edge.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Those minimum specs were set back when 667mhz meant the rev B TiBook with a 16mb Radeon Mobility, only 256k of L2 cache (no L3), and oddly poor memory bandwidth. The new 667 is much improved; I don't think it's on the edge anymore.
     
Surfer  (op)
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Jun 11, 2002, 05:03 AM
 
Looks like a large percentage have decided to keep their powerbook a little longer... It would be interesting to know which powerbooks you intend to keep? If I owned a PB G4 I would probably keep it until the next revision, but since I am using a lombard its time to upgrade...

     
   
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