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ctt1wbw · Oct 20, 2008, 05:16 AM

I was on 95 south around Lorton and Dale City yesterday. If anyone knows this area, it's a crazy stretch of pavement. Anyway, I was in the right lane on cruise control at about 75. This Volvo 7 series sedan comes flying by me, I mean this guy was getting on it. Must have been at or over 100. At about that time, I was passing one of the little hideouts in the median where the troopers park it. I noticed the State Police Camaro start to pull out with his lights off, obviously tagged the hell out this guy.

I swear, in not about a quarter mile, this Camaro was flying. This trooper got on it, and I mean in a big way. I think I saw the shock waves that the bullets in The Matrix exhausted, this guy was on it, hard. I think he hit 120 in less than half a mile, it seemed like.

So I was wondering what the HELL is under the hood of these Camaros. Anyone know?

Doofy · Oct 20, 2008, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

I think he hit 120 in less than half a mile, it seemed like.

So I was wondering what the HELL is under the hood of these Camaros. Anyone know?

Dude, I can hit 120 in half a mile in my Jeep - from a standing start, not highway cruising speed. But you're saying it like it's some kind of impressive feat which can only be achieved with some stonking tuned-up engine.

ctt1wbw · Oct 20, 2008, 06:49 AM

Did your parents name you Doofy, or was it your 6th grade friends? I only said it seemed like a quarter mile, I wasn't looking at the clock. It wasn't a long time. Remember, the Camaro was pointing towards traffic, and inside of a few seconds, I bet the guy hit 120. I didn't have any speed or time measuring or instrumentation devices with me, so I might be off a bit.

Maybe I should have videotaped it or something.

Doofy · Oct 20, 2008, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

I only said it seemed like a quarter mile

Ummm. You said "half a mile".

OreoCookie · Oct 20, 2008, 07:22 AM

In either case, what's so impressive about 120 mph?
We can do this on the autobahn every day and you don't need a particularly powerful car for that

hwojtek · Oct 20, 2008, 07:31 AM

This one? http://www.flhsmv.gov/fhp/misc/vehequip/Camaro.htm
It's a joke, in terms of performance...

scottiB · Oct 20, 2008, 09:34 AM

A new Camaro? These aren't in production yet. Was it an older one or a Charger? I've seen quite a few Chargers as MD state troopers and Montgomery County sherrifs.

olePigeon · Oct 20, 2008, 11:22 AM

I bet it was a Charger. I've seen quite a few CHP and couple local police with Dodge Charger Cruiser conversions.

sek929 · Oct 20, 2008, 12:35 PM

We have a Dodge Charger town cop 'round these parts.

Doofy · Oct 20, 2008, 12:37 PM

ThinkInsane · Oct 20, 2008, 12:39 PM

Since they first came out, I've thought the new Chargers were pretty ugly, and for the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would want such an utterly repellant looking vehicle. That being said, I think they look rather badass as cop cars.

mattyb · Oct 20, 2008, 01:11 PM

lol, 5 and 6 litre engines, shows what boats the Americans buy. Oh yeah, probably can't use a gear stick either.

And no, I can't be convinced that you need 6 litres of engine when your max speeds are 75mph.

IceEnclosure · 01:46 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B4C

Earlier B4C package Z28 Camaros are still being used. I'd think the OP would have pointed out that it was a new Camaro if it had been. Though I'm sure they'll employ the 2010 Camaro in time.

Originally Posted by hwojtek

This one? http://www.flhsmv.gov/fhp/misc/vehequip/Camaro.htm
It's a joke, in terms of performance...

Certainly not compared to other police cars in the U.S.

Also there's not a lot of U.S. cars that can run 13.xx second 1/4 mile times with 160mph+ top speed with an automatic*, and for $26K or thereabouts.

*6-speed models were/are also in use, see below.

I personally know of a friend who has a rare(colored and optioned, anyway) unmarked, red B4C Camaro that is absolutely stone-bone stock, on stock tires, that ran 13.0@108mph in the 1/4 mile. This was with a 6-speed manual and something like 2000 mi. on the odometer.

Someone tell me who's going to outrun him on the Turnpike, in an unmodified car? AMG Mercs? Ferraris? Porsche? Of course. Just saying that this car performs quite well, hwojtek.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

In either case, what's so impressive about 120 mph?
We can do this on the autobahn every day and you don't need a particularly powerful car for that

The impressive thing would be how much quicker it will get there than an average car. It's about getting to top speed quiickly more than it's about ultimate top speed.

Anyhoo, I also know a lot of LEOs use the 2003-2004 Mustang Cobra as service vehicles, usually they're unmarked. We've got quite a few in south florida all different colors - bright yellow, silver, black, etc. These are 400 HP cars peoples.

mattyb · Oct 20, 2008, 01:59 PM

I lived in Florida in 99/00 right by US27 and you could occasionally hear the HP guys in their 5.0 Mustangs engage the kickdown. The sound was quite sweet in fact.

IceEnclosure · Oct 20, 2008, 03:15 PM

in case anyone may think otherwise, Police service vehicles generally get no more than oil, tranny, and engine oil coolers installed. Suspension upgrades in the form of larger roll bars and such, but those are usually pulled from the parts bin, ie from the Z28 1LE handling package for the Camaro.

I cringe when I STILL hear people saying 'oh man the 5.0s the cops use/used to use have a chip that gives them 50 horsepower!!'

ctt1wbw · Oct 20, 2008, 03:39 PM

Yeah, I am quite sure that I could tell the difference between a Charger and a Camaro.

But what the hell do I know? I don't still live at home with mommy and daddy.

scottiB · Oct 20, 2008, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

I cringe when I STILL hear people saying 'oh man the 5.0s the cops use/used to use have a chip that gives them 50 horsepower!!'

Heh. I'm a member/lurker of a Ford Panther (Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Town Car) forum, and when a newbie gets his grandparents' hand-me-down Crown Vic, the first thing they ask/post is where they can get a "police car chip". He's promptly slapped down/corrected.

sek929 · Oct 20, 2008, 03:43 PM

Doesn't the Police Interceptor have more HP than the stock Vic?

scottiB · 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Yeah, I am quite sure that I could tell the difference between a Charger and a Camaro.

But what the hell do I know? I don't still live at home with mommy and daddy.

The only reason I questioned it is that it's rare to have a 2002 (the last year that Camaro was built) anything still in use by a police department--let alone highway patrol that puts miles and miles on the cars. Now, I realize that they are mostly highway miles, and police cars get terrific care and maintenance, but a six-year-old car is usually up for police auction by now. Since it's VA and in a pretty temperate climate is probably helpful, too.

I can't remember the last time I've seen a 2002 Crown Vic or Impala patrol car on the road.

ctt1wbw · Oct 20, 2008, 03:52 PM

Those Crown Vics are crap. Firstly, they're Fords and I can't stand Fords, with the exception of about three. And I'm tellin ya, this Camaro had the guy pulled over and stopped in about a mile or so. And the Volvo had to be doing over 100 on 95 South, which is a death wish around the Lorton area.

olePigeon · Oct 20, 2008, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Doesn't the Police Interceptor have more HP than the stock Vic?

From what I remember from The Learning Channel which had a nifty episode on converting stock vehicles for police and military use (including SUVs for Presidents and candidates), there are a lot performance enhancements and tweaks, but there's no computer chip modification.

They buy a car off the lot and completely strip it down to the frame (everything, including the interior). Then they build it up from there.

sek929 · Oct 20, 2008, 03:55 PM

I'll never understand people who 'hate' one american car company yet 'love' another.

Chevys and Fords (plus Dodge) are equally crap for cars, at least Ford had the balls to keep a V8 RWD powered sedan in their lineup...probably for no other reason than it's Police contracts.

scottiB · Oct 20, 2008, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Doesn't the Police Interceptor have more HP than the stock Vic?

For 2009, yes. 250hp/297 lb-ft. of torque vs. 224/275 for the Mercury Grand Marquis. As of 2008.5, Crown Vics are sold only to government and fleets, not to the general public.

Dakar V · Oct 20, 2008, 03:59 PM

Where were you when it turned 2008.5? I remember, I was at my girlfriend's place, and we had just had a fight. Dick Clark was on the television...

sek929 · Oct 20, 2008, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by scottiB

For 2009, yes. 250hp/297 lb-ft. of torque vs. 224/275 for the Mercury Grand Marquis. As of 2008.5, Crown Vics are sold only to government and fleets, not to the general public.

Good to know, I had a feeling they weren't for public sale anymore, but I still see plenty of Staties driving them around.

olePigeon · Oct 20, 2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Dick Clark was on the television...

That narrows it down to anywhere between 1945 and 2008.

Jens Peter · Oct 20, 2008, 04:37 PM

Saw one of these when driving home from Berlin saturday:

Thats a nice police car!

turtle777 · Oct 20, 2008, 05:31 PM

^^ Seconded.

-t

olePigeon · Oct 20, 2008, 05:55 PM

*standing in front of a "No Loitering" sign all shifty eyed*
"Hey, no loitering."
"More importantly, I'm resisting arrest. You better put in back of that police car and head back to the station at 200 KPH."

KeriVit · Oct 20, 2008, 05:56 PM

Well, you all certainly burst his bubble with your one-up-manship.

vmarks · Oct 20, 2008, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

in case anyone may think otherwise, Police service vehicles generally get no more than oil, tranny, and engine oil coolers installed. Suspension upgrades in the form of larger roll bars and such, but those are usually pulled from the parts bin, ie from the Z28 1LE handling package for the Camaro.

I cringe when I STILL hear people saying 'oh man the 5.0s the cops use/used to use have a chip that gives them 50 horsepower!!'

They do tend to have the speed limiters removed from the chip program.

In the case of the Caprice 9C1, they used anti-sway bars that just weren't available on the car in it's civilian form, even on the Impala SS.

'Course, the other things the police package has or doesn't have are things like vinyl seats instead of cloth or leather, heavy rubber floor mat instead of carpet (easier to wash perp vomit out), silicone hoses for the coolant lines instead of rubber, higher rated alternator, rear door locks that are disabled from being unlocked in the rear, etc.

The BC4 Camaro had a top speed of 155mph.
It has the 5.7 liter aluminum LS1 from a corvette, with the accessories mounted tighter to fit under the camaro hood.
2002 got a 4 speed automatic transmission, no six speed manual was offered for the police package.

Strangely, there are larger and faster engines available in some civilian models than available in police package models.

brassplayersrock² · Oct 21, 2008, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B4C

Earlier B4C package Z28 Camaros are still being used. I'd think the OP would have pointed out that it was a new Camaro if it had been. Though I'm sure they'll employ the 2010 Camaro in time.

Certainly not compared to other police cars in the U.S.

Also there's not a lot of U.S. cars that can run 13.xx second 1/4 mile times with 160mph+ top speed with an automatic*, and for $26K or thereabouts.

*6-speed models were/are also in use, see below.

I personally know of a friend who has a rare(colored and optioned, anyway) unmarked, red B4C Camaro that is absolutely stone-bone stock, on stock tires, that ran 13.0@108mph in the 1/4 mile. This was with a 6-speed manual and something like 2000 mi. on the odometer.

Someone tell me who's going to outrun him on the Turnpike, in an unmodified car? AMG Mercs? Ferraris? Porsche? Of course. Just saying that this car performs quite well, hwojtek.

The impressive thing would be how much quicker it will get there than an average car. It's about getting to top speed quiickly more than it's about ultimate top speed.

Anyhoo, I also know a lot of LEOs use the 2003-2004 Mustang Cobra as service vehicles, usually they're unmarked. We've got quite a few in south florida all different colors - bright yellow, silver, black, etc. These are 400 HP cars peoples.

All the cops need are a squad of your friends custom built car that you show cased in a thread here

hwojtek · Oct 21, 2008, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

I personally know of a friend who has a rare(colored and optioned, anyway) unmarked, red B4C Camaro that is absolutely stone-bone stock, on stock tires, that ran 13.0@108mph in the 1/4 mile. This was with a 6-speed manual and something like 2000 mi. on the odometer.
Someone tell me who's going to outrun him on the Turnpike, in an unmodified car? AMG Mercs? Ferraris? Porsche? Of course. Just saying that this car performs quite well, hwojtek.

Ice, I really appreciate the invaluable American input throughout the history of automobiles (past and present), but these are figures that are easily beaten by a small diesel sedan from Europe (BMW 335d).

Notwithstanding the above, a Camaro with such performance is actually well-suited to American highway patrol scenarios. It is, however, not a superhigh-performance car in general context.

But... I'd love to see a SuperSnake in police service. The 600+ HP territory is something to write home about (been driving a SuperSnake during a closed press event - not even a Ford GT, the most brutal of supercars of the day, compares with a SuperSnake).

ctt1wbw · Oct 21, 2008, 05:17 AM

Not even a Saleen S-7, which is American? And I love the continued trash talking of American cars.

hwojtek · 08:14 AM

I'd consider Saleen as exotica, at least from my (European) point of view, while not dissing its abilities as a supercar, it's more an icon. It's much rarer than a Ford GT (Saleen's got virtually no sales network in Europe) in here, an in most cases it is employed as a racing car. I have no experience with the road version, but I believe it is a bit toned down in comparison to the racing one, a true savage.

However, the Mustang story is funny in the point of being able to drive from A to B with a regular V6 Mustang, which is anything but performance, and then getting into the very same interior, but with an engine three times as powerful - the surprise factor rises to the maximum.

IceEnclosure · Oct 21, 2008, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by hwojtek

I'd consider Saleen as exotica, at least from my (European) point of view, while not dissing its abilities as a supercar, it's more an icon. It's much rarer than a Ford GT (Saleen's got virtually no sales network in Europe) in here, an in most cases it is employed as a racing car. I have no experience with the road version, but I believe it is a bit toned down in comparison to the racing one, a true savage.

However, the Mustang story is funny in the point of being able to drive from A to B with a regular V6 Mustang, which is anything but performance, and then getting into the very same interior, but with an engine three times as powerful - the surprise factor rises to the maximum.

Originally Posted by hwojtek

Ice, I really appreciate the invaluable American input throughout the history of automobiles (past and present), but these are figures that are easily beaten by a small diesel sedan from Europe (BMW 335d).

Notwithstanding the above, a Camaro with such performance is actually well-suited to American highway patrol scenarios. It is, however, not a superhigh-performance car in general context.

But... I'd love to see a SuperSnake in police service. The 600+ HP territory is something to write home about (been driving a SuperSnake during a closed press event - not even a Ford GT, the most brutal of supercars of the day, compares with a SuperSnake).

NO ONE has said the Camaro was "superhigh-performance". No one.

Also, we were in fact talking about American police cars, not European.

Dude, lots of cars can run 13.0 quarter miles. Can they do it for $26K US? The BMW 335 series STARTS at $39,000. FAIL

A Ford GT doesn't compare to a GT500 SuperSnake? Hmm, okay.

Lastly, go fetch a ride in a stock, street-going Twin-Turbo Saleen S7, lemme know whatchya think!

Doofy · Oct 21, 2008, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Dude, lots of cars can run 13.0 quarter miles. Can they do it for $26K US? The BMW 335 series STARTS at $39,000. FAIL

It ain't really a fail. In relation to average wages in the two locales, it's in the same ball park.

hwojtek · Oct 21, 2008, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

NO ONE has said the Camaro was "superhigh-performance". No one.

That's right.

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Also, we were in fact talking about American police cars, not European.

We sure do. That's why I wrote, quote: "a Camaro with such performance is actually well-suited to American highway patrol scenarios."

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Dude, lots of cars can run 13.0 quarter miles. Can they do it for $26K US? The BMW 335 series STARTS at $39,000. FAIL

Uhm, so what? I don't think the price is an issue here.
Better yet, in long-term usage a 335d will be cheaper to run than a Camaro. 286hp/428 lbs-ft/5.9 s 0-60 mph and 42+ mpg.
I do not say the Camaro is a bad car. It's fine. But even if it is cheap, if it comes to performance, a Camaro is no better than a small sedan. Most people do not drive the cars with the price tags still taped to the windscreens to show off. They drive it for pleasure of driving the particular car.

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

A Ford GT doesn't compare to a GT500 SuperSnake? Hmm, okay.

There are some fundamental differences.

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Lastly, go fetch a ride in a stock, street-going Twin-Turbo Saleen S7, lemme know whatchya think!

I'd love to - still, I'd need to got an invitation from Saleen first... I am not in a position of calling up a manufacturer and asking "bring me the car next Monday, and it'd better be yellow, or else my photographer won't do the photos"...

Laminar · Oct 21, 2008, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by hwojtek

Most people do not drive the cars with the price tags still taped to the windscreens to show off.

I wouldn't go that far. Cars are definitely used as status symbols by a lot of people. Why does America have to have Infinity, Acura, Lexus, etc.? Because we need that brand/label. No one wants a $40,000 Honda sedan, but an Acura, now there's something to show off to the neighbors.

hwojtek · Oct 21, 2008, 06:00 PM

Infiniti, Lexus, Acura - it's has been invented in Japan and does very well in Europe. (VW -> Skoda, Renault -> Dacia etc). Acura is the single brand not officially present in Europe, BTW.

The point is, even if we go that far that a "Lexus" is better than a "Toyota", anybody with basic knowledge knows, they're essentially the same. Same wiper/turn signal levers in top-of-the-line Lexus IS-F and in a Corolla. It is only the marketing...

Or was it originally invented in the USA, with exactly the same cars branded as Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth (RIP)?

IceEnclosure · Oct 21, 2008, 07:06 PM

U.S. Law Enforcement has always been about buying their fleet vehicles for cheap. Their price on the '90-93 5.0 Mustangs was somewhere in the $15,000 range.

They like rear-wheel drive and V8 torque on the cheap. Times may change things, but that's the way it's been.

iranfromthezoo · Oct 22, 2008, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Those Crown Vics are crap. Firstly, they're Fords and I can't stand Fords, with the exception of about three. And I'm tellin ya, this Camaro had the guy pulled over and stopped in about a mile or so. And the Volvo had to be doing over 100 on 95 South, which is a death wish around the Lorton area.

Those crown vic's fly though and they are a proven workhorse. The Camaro is a new police package that Chevy has come out with (since the impalla's suck). I don't know the specs but I know we are going to be trying them out. I think we have 2 on order. We have a Charger and that car will leave our crown vics in the dust. But just to let you know, the crown vics will go up to 135, and the charger pegs out at 145. The camaro will only go up to around 126 in the specs I believe.

They are just made to have really high acceleration and fast braking, which means it may appear to speed up really fast and "zoom" it's just getting up and going.

I don't care what you say though, the crown vics are the best police car ever made.

BTW sorry if I sounded like I was all over the place. I was trying to explain it the best way I knew how. haha

Laminar · Oct 22, 2008, 02:40 PM

I think it's unsafe for anyone to go faster than 120 on public roads, police or not.

Andrew Stephens · Oct 22, 2008, 03:35 PM

There's a lot of talk in the UK about police spec cars. In reality UK police (I have no idea about US or other European countries) pursuit cars are all stock apart from radio equipment etc. They just get looked after and driven very very well.

People are always trying to sell on ex cop Senators or Volvo T5's.

I do recall seeing one of those cheap TV "stop, police, oi, no!" shows where a motorway patrol office had a blow out at 150mph on the hard shoulder of the motorway. His on board video captured his graceful spin into and through the traffic around him. He didn't hit anything by some miracle. Sometimes even the cops frive too fast.