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Dakar V · May 27, 2009, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Every NBA Finals in the 80s would've had 3-4 banned starters by the time Game 1 started.

Please, not even the 90s could have occurred at this point.

Hey, I like technicals for harassing refs. But I'm also all for the players going at each other as much as possible. They are enemies. Dirty and belligerent is not the same as rough and chippy.

exca1ibur · May 27, 2009, 02:18 PM

It's looking like its a wrap for Cleveland. The way the Magic are playing against them I can't see them getting the next 3 in a row.

ShortcutToMoncton · May 27, 2009, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by paul w

So looks like Howard finally figured out that he can be unstoppable inside.

Originally Posted by Dakar V

I wouldn't go that far on Howard. Every time they force-fed him inside in the second half he forced up awful shots. Things clicked in overtime, but I'm not sold that's some kind of permanent situation.

Agreed. Howard still gets his points on sheer athleticism: dunks, put-backs, open looks because of box-out dominance. I've been genuinely surprised that he still doesn't have genuine go-to post moves at this point. Maybe it's just because his athleticism is still good enough?

Oddly enough, I called it that Orlando would actually be a incredibly hard match-up for Cleveland. I didn't think they would win, though...!

greg

Dakar V · May 27, 2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Agreed. Howard still gets his points on sheer athleticism: dunks, put-backs, open looks because of box-out dominance. I've been genuinely surprised that he still doesn't have genuine go-to post moves at this point. Maybe it's just because his athleticism is still good enough?

At this point in his career Shaq was nearly as athletic in infinitely more skilled.

Edit: Also, the league rescinded Dwight's tech.

paul w · May 27, 2009, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

I wouldn't go that far on Howard. Every time they force-fed him inside in the second half he forced up awful shots. Things clicked in overtime, but I'm not sold that's some kind of permanent situation.

Watching him flop Verejao around like a rag doll - it was like he finally got it. Unless Ben Wallace somehow becomes Ben Wallace of 5 years ago, there's nobody who comes close to stopping Howard on Cleveland's team.

Dakar V · May 27, 2009, 05:09 PM

Speaking of Varejao, him undercutting Howard's jump was about as much a foul as LeBron tripping on Pietrus' leg.

Jawbone54 · May 27, 2009, 05:56 PM

I want these players to hate each other.

Watching Rodman/Laimbeer/Pippen/Jordan roughhousing and creating a true rivalry were some of my first basketball memories (my first being me sitting with my dad and uncles, watching Larry Bird carve some team to pieces). Knicks/Pacers, Bulls/Jazz, Heat/Knicks, Celtics/Lakers, and the rest are what made me love basketball.

I gave up when every team became more about staying off of each other and working a post/pass-out/post/pass-out style of basketball that bored me to tears.

Now I'm actually interested again, but the whole forcing everyone to handle each other with kid's gloves has to stop before it kills the competition.

Dakar V · May 27, 2009, 06:03 PM

I will forever love that Heat/Knicks rivalry. I never missed a game.

Did we ever find out what the original beef between Zo and Grandmama was?

::maroma:: · May 27, 2009, 06:32 PM

I must say I am surprised at how Orlando is working Cleveland. I do think though that if Lebron's supporting cast would have shown up for this series, it would be all tied up at least. It sucks for Lebron, but he's young and he has a lot more years to get his ring(s). But I really wanted to see him win it this year. Watching their first 2 series', I figured they were unstoppable. The way they were playing, the teamwork, the way they were having so much fun. But alas, this is the NBA and I guess anything can happen.

I agree about the high number of technicals being called. Its bad for the game. I think there's enough of a concern about it that they will address it in the off season. Even the announcers are pissed off about it. I haven't heard one announcer defend them. I mean how many techs have been rescinded after the league looked at the play? That shouldn't happen at all. There should never be a doubt about a technical call, since technicals should only be used when its obvious to everyone that there was a violation that warranted it.

Does anyone else have big problems with players who cry about every single whistle that doesn't go their way? Orlando seems to be pretty bad at that. I realize every team does it, but it just feels like Orlando (especially Howard) does it way too much. Lakers tend to do it a lot too. I just don't get why they do it. I understand that you can influence the refs future calls, but you have to use it strategically. Bitching about every single call doesn't work, and it makes you look like a friggin child out there on the court. Act like professionals for christs sake! Is it me or is this worse this year than most?

And I will say that if there is one team left in the playoffs that could come back from a 3-1 deficit by winning 2 home games and an away, it would be the Cavs. The key is that the other players need to show up big time. Mo and Dante need to get out of their funk, the big men need to buck up and play more physical than they ever have, and of course Lebron has to do what he's been doing all playoffs. If all of those things happen, and Orlando goes cold, Cavs can pull this out.

Jawbone54 · May 27, 2009, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

I will forever love that Heat/Knicks rivalry. I never missed a game.

Did we ever find out what the original beef between Zo and Grandmama was?

Grandmama: best nickname ever. I wonder if he ever regretted those commercials.

Jawbone54 · May 27, 2009, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

I must say I am surprised at how Orlando is working Cleveland. I do think though that if Lebron's supporting cast would have shown up for this series, it would be all tied up at least. It sucks for Lebron, but he's young and he has a lot more years to get his ring(s). But I really wanted to see him win it this year. Watching their first 2 series', I figured they were unstoppable. The way they were playing, the teamwork, the way they were having so much fun. But alas, this is the NBA and I guess anything can happen.

I don't care if LeBron wins or not; I just don't want the Lakers to win. I'm fine with an Orlando/Denver/Cleveland win. I just get a bad taste in my mouth every time Pau Gasol reacts like an idiot whenever someone gets even slightly physical with him. That and I can't stand Kobe...

I agree about the high number of technicals being called. Its bad for the game. I think there's enough of a concern about it that they will address it in the off season. Even the announcers are pissed off about it. I haven't heard one announcer defend them. I mean how many techs have been rescinded after the league looked at the play? That shouldn't happen at all. There should never be a doubt about a technical call, since technicals should only be used when its obvious to everyone that there was a violation that warranted it.

I think the fact that the announcers, commentators, journalists, and bloggers are up in arms about it is our best bet that it will be fixed.

A few fights broke out, and David Stern let loose with this knee-jerk reaction that has snowballed into what we're seeing in the playoffs. This is all about trying to make the NBA look like it isn't full of thugs and unmarketable to the general public. But would anyone in their right mind consider Kobe, Gasol, Mo, LeBron, Dwight, Chauncey, and Carmelo to be thugs? Denver's starting lineup could fill the cover of a tattoo mag, but these guys all appear to be pretty professional and sensible (I know Carmelo's had his issues, but I think he's grown up.).

The league is just killing the game.

Does anyone else have big problems with players who cry about every single whistle that doesn't go their way? Orlando seems to be pretty bad at that. I realize every team does it, but it just feels like Orlando (especially Howard) does it way too much. Lakers tend to do it a lot too. I just don't get why they do it. I understand that you can influence the refs future calls, but you have to use it strategically. Bitching about every single call doesn't work, and it makes you look like a friggin child out there on the court. Act like professionals for christs sake! Is it me or is this worse this year than most?

This always gets on my nerves.

At least it's not like soccer. I love the beautiful game, but dear God...the whining, flopping, moaning, screaming, crying gets on my nerves.

And I will say that if there is one team left in the playoffs that could come back from a 3-1 deficit by winning 2 home games and an away, it would be the Cavs. The key is that the other players need to show up big time. Mo and Dante need to get out of their funk, the big men need to buck up and play more physical than they ever have, and of course Lebron has to do what he's been doing all playoffs. If all of those things happen, and Orlando goes cold, Cavs can pull this out.

Anything could happen. I doubt it will though. They'll pull this one off in Cleveland and then Orlando will wrap it up at home. Three straight do-or-dies in the playoffs is ridiculously tough.

Dakar V · May 28, 2009, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Does anyone else have big problems with players who cry about every single whistle that doesn't go their way? Orlando seems to be pretty bad at that. I realize every team does it, but it just feels like Orlando (especially Howard) does it way too much. Lakers tend to do it a lot too. I just don't get why they do it. I understand that you can influence the refs future calls, but you have to use it strategically. Bitching about every single call doesn't work, and it makes you look like a friggin child out there on the court. Act like professionals for christs sake! Is it me or is this worse this year than most?

Meh, nothing beats the Duncan "HOW CAN YOU CALL THAT ON MEEE?! look. From what I've watched the regular season was worse.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I think the fact that the announcers, commentators, journalists, and bloggers are up in arms about it is our best bet that it will be fixed.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The Donaghy scandal has done nothing to improve the quality of the officiating. Wasn't that pretty much a worse-case scenario?

Edit: All you need to know about last night's game was I didn't bother watching because the outcome was not in doubt in my mind. Imagine my surprise this morning when I'm reading Bill Simmons comment on the horrible officiating...

paul w · May 28, 2009, 11:10 AM

I didn't read anything about it - but there were some unbelieveably glaring calls- Nene foulling out on what should have been a Pau charge or a non call was the signature call. Basically as long as it's close, I can't see the Lakers losing this series.

Dakar V · May 28, 2009, 11:13 AM

I didn't think the Nuggets would win the series when they blew home court advantage in Game 3. Further, they needed to string together 2 wins to stay competitive (didn't they lost last night), so now they need to string together 2 to take the series. Even more unlikely.

::maroma:: · May 28, 2009, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Meh, nothing beats the Duncan "HOW CAN YOU CALL THAT ON MEEE?! look. From what I've watched the regular season was worse.

Ah yes, Duncan. How could I forget? Yeah he's got that look down pat. Its a trend that has really gotten to me lately. I lose a lot of respect for a player that consistently does that sort of thing. I suspect soon I will have no respect left to give, and I will move on to being a fan of the WNBA.

Last nights game was definitely as expected. Lakers came out flat, but hung around to pull it out in the end. Officiating was terrible. Jack Nicholson was the highlight of the night.

So I really like Jeff Van Gundy as an announcer/commentator. I like his humor, and he plays well off of the others. I like when he and Mark Jackson start taking jabs at one another. Just thought I'd mention that.

Dakar V · May 28, 2009, 12:55 PM

It's a good three man booth, but I can't shake the feeling he's either nuts or consciously contradictory.

Of all the color men, though, nothing screams trouble more than when a man like Doug Collins (the biggest apologist for officials out there) hesitantly says "I, uh, I don't see it."

::maroma:: · May 28, 2009, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

It's a good three man booth, but I can't shake the feeling he's either nuts or consciously contradictory.

Of all the color men, though, nothing screams trouble more than when a man like Doug Collins (the biggest apologist for officials out there) hesitantly says "I, uh, I don't see it."

Haha, Van Gundy is indeed a little nuts, but that's a big reason I like him. I also like his brother as a coach, even though his team is beating the team I wanted to win the Finals.

And I really like Doug Collins even though he sometimes sides with the refs when they don't deserve it.

Dakar V · May 28, 2009, 02:24 PM

Really? Doug Collins is the biggest ninny. He's inoffensive to a fault and adds nothing interesting or enlightening. If he never coached Jordan (or lost the gold medal game to Russians in the Olympics) he's never have this job.

::maroma:: · May 28, 2009, 02:34 PM

He definitely is a softy when it comes to criticism, but there's something about that softness that makes me like him. He's got a good mind for the game. He's not the best, but I actually like listening to him. Maybe its his voice.

And can you really blame him (or the USA team for that matter) for the loss in the Olympics? Wasn't it the refs who made a controversial call at the end that gave the Russian team another possession? I don't recall exactly how that went down.

He was a solid player in his day, 1st pick overall in the draft. I give him respect for that.

Dakar V · May 28, 2009, 02:51 PM

I don't blame him, I'm saying its one of his damned claims to fame.

There's a reason why Jordan hired him to coach the Wizards. Because he knew he'd be a spineless puppet. No respect for the guy.

Dakar V · May 28, 2009, 02:56 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...8&sportCat=nba

The question remains: What's wrong with a few rough fouls? Isn't that an occupational hazard, no different than pitchers occasionally getting hit by line drives or defensemen getting nailed by slapshots? What's wrong with the occasional shoving match where nobody gets hurt, or the wild roundhouse right that never connects? What are we afraid of? Why does hockey condone fighting and baseball still allows dugouts and bullpens to empty during brawls, but the NBA doesn't allow glaring? If everyone else in society can butt heads from time to time, why can't NBA players? What makes them a higher form of being? There's no answer.

It was inevitable.

KCrosbie · May 31, 2009, 12:14 AM

So it looks like Lakers vs. Magic in the finals. Poor Lebron. His team sux.

Go Lakers!

Jawbone54 · May 31, 2009, 01:15 AM

And every Knicks fan in New York is pumping his fist, hoping LeBron storming out means his frustration in Cleveland is reaching a boiling point...

paul w · May 31, 2009, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

And every Knicks fan in New York is pumping his fist, hoping LeBron storming out means his frustration in Cleveland is reaching a boiling point...

Bittersweet for this Knicks fan - as a basketball fan I actually wanted Lebron in the finals, even if it meant his winning made him less likely to come over to New York. He is just that amazing to watch*.

But really - as Jalen Rose kind ofpointed out last night - how does his team get better? They're locked into the wrong players for the positions. I think the Knicks would have a better supporting cast in 2010.

And seriously - all props to Mike Brown - but would there be a more electric team than a D'Antoni seven second offense centered around the most versatile scoring force in the NBA?

*Also I would mind Wade in the least...

Jawbone54 · Jun 1, 2009, 02:18 AM

I've hated the Knicks since the old Bull/Knicks series of the early 90s, but I also like for them to be in contention so that I have someone to pull against (weird?). LeBron in New York would be nice, I guess.

Dakar V · Jun 1, 2009, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by paul w

But really - as Jalen Rose kind ofpointed out last night - how does his team get better? They're locked into the wrong players for the positions.

Odd, I do believe they have quite a few restricted and free agents this summer. The problem is the declining luxury tax.

paul w · 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Odd, I do believe they have quite a few restricted and free agents this summer. The problem is the declining luxury tax.

Both Varejao and Ilgauskas have player options, and Ben Wallace is still under contract. Does that mean they can't trade them? I don't know.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I've hated the Knicks since the old Bull/Knicks series of the early 90s, but I also like for them to be in contention so that I have someone to pull against (weird?). LeBron in New York would be nice, I guess.

New York is desperate for a superstar. He'll be the king of the city if he wants to be. I just hope he doesn't become the Arod of basketball.

Dakar V · Jun 1, 2009, 10:15 AM

Szerbiak is free, Pavlovich might be too. Also, Joe Smith. Ilgauskas won't opt out, but it Varejao will. Word is Wallace is mulling retirement.

Jawbone54 · Jun 1, 2009, 12:21 PM

Except for drafting LeBron (which was a no-brainer), has Cleveland ever put together a championship-caliber roster? Nay.

They'll lose a few guys this offseason, sign the same type of underwhelming role players to put around LeBron, and bow out next year in the second round as a nice farewell party for their superstar.

::maroma:: · Jun 1, 2009, 12:44 PM

The worst part is, we won't get to see any of those puppet commercials anymore.

I don't care where Lebron goes, as long as he's surrounded by a team that wants to win a championship, and has the skills to play at a high level for the entire post season. I also don't think that the Cavs offense is worth a crap. Most of the time they just hover the ball at the top of the key (even if its not in Lebrons hands), dribble dribble dribble, pull up jumper or a bad pass. When they actually run a smooth offense, moving the ball and moving without the ball, they are ridiculously hard to stop. I watched this series mostly throwing my hands in the air screaming at the TV "MOVE THE ****ING BALL!". Of course, only at the Cavs... the Magic move the ball beautifully.

I will watch the Finals with a lack of interest. Don't much care who wins. I dislike both teams equally... well maybe I dislike the Lakers a little more.