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wallinbl · Apr 17, 2005, 07:53 AM

I'm looking to get a Mac (Mini or PM - strange choice, I know). My wife insists on keeping our rolltop computer desk, which means that the Mac will have to go in the desk's cabinet (closed on three sides, four including the door, with a 4"x6" vent). Will the low end PM generate too much heat to put it in there?

OreoCookie · Apr 17, 2005, 08:02 AM

I don't think that's a good idea for a PowerMac (or any desktop computer that generates a lot of heat). Take a look at the iMac G5 instead, which has about the same cpu horsepower as the low-end single CPU PowerMac. The PowerMacs cooling system is designed to have an air inlet (front and an outlet (back). Eventually, the air in the cabinet will heat up and the computer will even have to run its fans at higher rpms. Judging from my own experience of computers in the summer (you live in Florida), I don't think it's a good idea to put it in a closed space.

The MacMini should be ok, but I still don't see a point of putting a mini in a cabinet (it's very small and you still need to access the optical drive).

The third solution is to convince your wife that her idea of putting the new computer in the rolltop desk is not a good idea.

wallinbl · Apr 17, 2005, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Take a look at the iMac G5 instead

Yes, but then my wife will comlain that the 19" LCD I bought last year was a waste of money. Have to continue using it.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

The third solution is to convince your wife that her idea of putting the new computer in the rolltop desk is not a good idea.

Yeah, right.

wallinbl · Apr 17, 2005, 08:09 AM

A side question - do I have to add RAM in pairs (Apple's website seems to indicate this). I've got a 512MB stick of PC3200 that I could throw in there - do I need to buy another one to go with it?

Eriamjh · Apr 17, 2005, 08:12 AM

First Question: Bad idea unless the desk itself has adequate ventilation.

Second Question: Absolutely yes.

wallinbl · Apr 17, 2005, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

First Question: Bad idea unless the desk itself has adequate ventilation.

Second Question: Absolutely yes.

The best I can do with the desk is to remove the door and run a USB fan in the vent (I have that now with my PC). I have a P4 2.8E right now, which is one of the hottest x86 CPUs around. I just have no idea how the heat compares (and how good Apple's cooling is).

Yes, I have to buy another stick, or yes, I can use just one?

OreoCookie · Apr 17, 2005, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Yes, but then my wife will comlain that the 19" LCD I bought last year was a waste of money. Have to continue using it.

Yeah, right.

Well, you can use your 19" LCD as a second screen if you buy an iMac G5. Just google up "Screen Spanning Doctor" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

But if your wife is unwilling to compromise on the desk, I think a PM is out of the question. If you use a Mac Mini, I don't see a point of `hiding' it.

Having said all that, I think you should consider an iMac G5 (using both screens) or a Mac Mini.

wallinbl · Apr 17, 2005, 08:33 AM

Based on the limited info I can find, it appears that the G5 1.8 runs cooler (105F) than my P4 2.8E (145F). I do have some problems with the machine shutting down due to heat in the summer, but as long as my 2 year old doesn't close the door, it's okay. The PM case is a little narrower than my Antec Sonata, so there would be easier air flow.

If it's even close to possible, I'd prefer to get the PM over the Mini. I work with DV (on a personal basis), and play games occasionally so the Mini may be too slow.

Randman · Apr 17, 2005, 08:43 AM

Tell your wife, keeping the PM in a metal case increases the chance of something going wrong with due to overheating.

I'd sell the monitor, buy an iMac and get more ram for personal DV usage. Regardless, get bluetooth and wireless installed and a bluetooth keyboard, mouse and wireless stationand you have to have fewer wires.

Also, putting a computer in the cabinet will be clunky and possibly not workable as you need a power cord, a cord for the monitor and one for the keyboard if you don't go wireless.

Also, a metal case isn't god for any bluetooth usage.

wallinbl · Apr 17, 2005, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Randman

Also, putting a computer in the cabinet will be clunky and possibly not workable as you need a power cord, a cord for the monitor and one for the keyboard if you don't go wireless.

Also, a metal case isn't god for any bluetooth usage.

It's not a metal cabinet, it's wooden. It's part of the desk. The desk was designed to have the computer go in a compartment that has a door on the front, a vent in the back, and some holes for wiring in the back that lead up to the desk surface. The desk also has a keyboard drawer that hides. Visually, it's quite appealing.

I think she may even find it somewhat appealing if the door is removed. I've already got a USB fan installed in the rear vent to keep hot air from standing around the computer. Regardless of that, not many here seem to think the G5 will survive down there. I was hoping to hear from someone who has done it, to give me some hope that I could as well. If I can find some more articles detailing the heat, I may go for it anyway (the one I mentioned above has the 1.8 G5 a full 40 degrees cooler than my current CPU.

jamil5454 · Apr 17, 2005, 10:15 AM

I used to have a computer desk like this. I put my computer (AthlonXP 1800+) in the computer space similar to yours, with one exception: I kept the door closed. However, I cut off the whole back panel so the computer would easily be able to blow air out the back. I didn't see system or CPU temperatures rise at all. This set up also prevents some dust contamination into your machine.

Would you be able to make the vent larger or possibly remove the back wall? If your computer desk is against a wall, then no one would see it. I don't think it's such a bad thing to put a PM in a computer cabinet, it's just that you'll need proper ventilation. Personally, I think the computer will be ok in the summer if you make sure to set your processor to "Reduced" or at least "Automatic."

OreoCookie · Apr 17, 2005, 10:54 AM

In 2003, there was a heat wave in Germany and all our computers' fans (we have a couple of G5s at work) were on maximum. Same for my iBook in Japan: the fan was almost constantly on in the summer.

I'm sceptical as to whether or not all this will suffice. And it doesn't make much of a difference if you reduce the clock speed of the CPU.

chrisford · 11:56 AM

Just a quick note: I ran my dual 450 mHz G4 in a similar arrangement for a couple of years with no worry. Note that I've no idea whether the G4 runs significantly hotter or colder than a G5*, so ymmv!

I wonder if you can remove the back from the desk? That way, with the front off, you'd get decent airflow from front to rear. I assume that the desk backs onto a wall, so you wouldn't notice the removal of the rear panel.

Anyway, hope this helps!

c

* I now have a G5 which I keep alongside my desk - not because I'm worried about heat but because the G5 is so tall it doesn't fit inside my desk anymore.

OreoCookie · Apr 17, 2005, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by chrisford

Just a quick note: I ran my dual 450 mHz G4 in a similar arrangement for a couple of years with no worry. Note that I've no idea whether the G4 runs significantly hotter or colder than a G5*, so ymmv!

I wonder if you can remove the back from the desk? That way, with the front off, you'd get decent airflow from front to rear. I assume that the desk backs onto a wall, so you wouldn't notice the removal of the rear panel.

Anyway, hope this helps!

c

* I now have a G5 which I keep alongside my desk - not because I'm worried about heat but because the G5 is so tall it doesn't fit inside my desk anymore.

A G4 450 doesn't even have fans for the CPUs, they require significantly less cooling than G5s. A mid to high-end graphics card consumes about 80 W alone!

jon l. dawson · Apr 17, 2005, 12:51 PM

Ran a Shuttle XPC in a similar configuration, with the back of the cabinet off, and it ran way hotter than when I had it out of the desk. I wouldn't really recommend this unless you remove the front door completely.

Olorin · Apr 17, 2005, 02:36 PM

Yea your wife is being stupid. I have a Dual 2Ghz and it pushes out so much heat that I wouldn't dream of putting it in any kind of cabinet. My friend has a single 1.7 Athalon and he took both the front and rear panel off the cabinet thing in his desk to keep the computer cool as it was running too hot before. If you get a G5 I would put it on the floor or on the desk or remove both the front and rear panels of the cabinet. You have to remember that the G5 sucks in air from the front and pushes it out of the rear so it is going to need both the front and rear free of obstruction in order to cool.

Kyros · Apr 19, 2005, 08:40 PM

Another thing to consider is that the vent you have would be way too small. The G5 has 4 "cooling zones" meaning that air is coming out of the entire computer at the back, not just in one spot like many pc's. It also needs similar room in the front to ventilate so it can suck air through the whole computer. These things have 9 fans for a reason.

Big Mac · Apr 20, 2005, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I don't think that's a good idea for a PowerMac (or any desktop computer that generates a lot of heat). Take a look at the iMac G5 instead, which has about the same cpu horsepower as the low-end single CPU PowerMac. The PowerMacs cooling system is designed to have an air inlet (front and an outlet (back). Eventually, the air in the cabinet will heat up and the computer will even have to run its fans at higher rpms. Judging from my own experience of computers in the summer (you live in Florida), I don't think it's a good idea to put it in a closed space.

The MacMini should be ok, but I still don't see a point of putting a mini in a cabinet (it's very small and you still need to access the optical drive).

The third solution is to convince your wife that her idea of putting the new computer in the rolltop desk is not a good idea.

OC's explanation is right on target. G5s will definitely not work well in enclosed spaces. I originally tried to place mine in a computer cabinet with a several inch clearance in the back for ventilation, but the fans quickly went (and stayed) on at full speed. Even though the temperature levels were not dangerous, the arrangement was unworkable because the area sounded like a wind tunnel.

t500 · Apr 20, 2005, 05:47 PM

I keep my G5 Dual 1.8 (Orgional Model) in a computer armoire. The compuer is on all the time and I never use sleep mode. The monitor seems to generate the most heat (I usually shut the monitor off when I'm not using it). With my setup the doors have to be open when the computer is in use. Whenever I run anything I keep the doors open., there is a reason the G5 has all those little holes. When I'm not using it, its closed up....

The hard part is finding a space big enough to hold the G5.

robo74 · Apr 24, 2005, 07:44 PM

I have my dual 1.8 in a similar space. decent hole in back (12in long and about 4 wide), about 2 inches of air space between wood and PM on the sides, and a door on front that I leave open all the time. I will add that I am in a "cool" basement as well. I did this with my dual 1GHZ G4, Dual 1.25 G4 and now my Dual 1.8 G5... No issues with fans at all. I can feel heat in there, but nothing I am worried about.

Thats just my .02

Rob

Link · Apr 25, 2005, 02:17 AM

If you have a single 1.8, it should be fine as long as the temp in the room is under 80ish.. ours is totally quiet and all, but I wouldn't be surprised if those fans got a little louder while in there.