[lamewing]

Originally Posted by Dumbo

Power Mac or bust it is then.

You are a windows user. Apple doesn't cater to you. The current mini will get them more switchers than their supply can handle. Their business will do just fine - even w/o you.

IMHO the shuttle is crappy compromise. If it's gonna be as big as a shuttle (and use all the space the shuttle's taking), I might as well get a real computer like a Power Mac. If it has to be small, well, the smaller the better, i.e. the mini is just fine (minus the GPU) for what it's intended. Apple offers more than enough diversity. Last time they offered more, they were on the verge of filing Chapter 11.

100% agree. I would rather buy a mini over a Shuttlle sized PC OR buy a full sized PC or Mac . As it stands, I use a PC for gaming, but will be buying a mini as a day-to-day system. My question is this:

Is it worth the money to buy a G4 mini at a reduced price or spend the extra on the intel mini. I realize there is a bit of a performance difference, but for performance I would use the PC. This is just a "get back into the Mac screne" computer. I ask because I don't really know Apple's short term (5 years) plan for the OSX switch, i.e. support and programs for the G4 version of OSX.

thanks

[legacyb4]

So has anyone on this thread received their Mac mini yet? I keep checking back with anticipation of seeing actual user reports but I keep getting lost in Mac/PC comparisons...

[Tuishimi]

I have mine! Working on it now. Set it up last night... still xferring some data (just realized I don't want to reenter everything in my address book). I would try installing and playing a game or two but I just realized that they are not universal and what good would that do?

But I also have to work (I mean job-work) now. So I need to tunnel into work, check out our CVS libraries to this new machine and get cracking...

[mduell]

Originally Posted by lamewing

100% agree. I would rather buy a mini over a Shuttlle sized PC OR buy a full sized PC or Mac . As it stands, I use a PC for gaming, but will be buying a mini as a day-to-day system. My question is this:

Is it worth the money to buy a G4 mini at a reduced price or spend the extra on the intel mini. I realize there is a bit of a performance difference, but for performance I would use the PC. This is just a "get back into the Mac screne" computer. I ask because I don't really know Apple's short term (5 years) plan for the OSX switch, i.e. support and programs for the G4 version of OSX.

What are you going to save, $100?
I'd go with the Intel mini... it can play HD content, GPU supports Tiger Core Graphics, no questions about forward CPU support.

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by mduell

What are you going to save, $100?
I'd go with the Intel mini... it can play HD content, GPU supports Tiger Core Graphics, no questions about forward CPU support.

More like $220. Apple has the bottom of the line refurb. G4 1.25GHz for $379. If a person doesn't need the things you mentioned or bluetooth and airport, this is a great way to go. As long as it is just for daily tasks like email, typing papers and etc.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by discotronic

More like $220. Apple has the bottom of the line refurb. G4 1.25GHz for $379. If a person doesn't need the things you mentioned or bluetooth and airport, this is a great way to go. As long as it is just for daily tasks like email, typing papers and etc.

If you're willing to buy a refurb, wait a month for Intel mini refurbs to show up.

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by mduell

If you're willing to buy a refurb, wait a month for Intel mini refurbs to show up.

When they do show up, I doubt there will be a $220 savings.

[Yawn]

Yeah, right. Go with the G4 refurb. It's a much better deal.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by discotronic

When they do show up, I doubt there will be a $220 savings.

Haha, no way. But it will be $100-120 savings, putting it $100-120 over the bottom G4 just like the non-refurbs are.

[reddogg]

New Benchmarks for mini from Bare Feats
http://www.barefeats.com/mincd.html

Here is their summary:
PERFORMANCE SUMMARY
The Mac mini performed better than the old PPC mini in the two CPU crunch tests. It would have matched the times of the iMac Core Duo if it was running at the same clock speed.

In the Core Image test, it bested the old mini but lost to the iMac Core Duo due to the general weakness of the GMA950 graphics processor. In two of the 3D Game tests, it actually lost to the PPC mini. I've read reports of how well the GMA950 handles HD playback, but that's doesn't make up for poor performance on other graphically intensive functions.

The Intel mini seemed only slightly affected by unmatched memory pairs until we ran Quake 3. In that test, it lost so much ground that the PPC mini tied it.

WHAT THE GMA950 GPU IS MISSING
There's a "must read" article on the MacWorld website that details the strengths and weaknesses of the Intel Mac mini's GMA950 graphics processor. Some missing pieces include:
1. Lack of dedicated video memory -- it borrows from the main memory.
2. No vertex shader support.
3. No transform and lighting effect support.
(When we tried to play World of Warcraft, all shader options were greyed out.)

Apple's web site says of the GMA950 "supports Tiger Core Graphics and the latest 3D games." It may support them but it does so poorly.

POOR INVESTMENT
In my humble opinion, the Mac mini is a poor investment unless you have a display, keyboard, and mouse you can't part with. You may pay more for the iMac Core Duo 1.83, but you get a lot more -- an LCD screen, a faster CPU, a much faster GPU, a faster/bigger hard drive, easy to install memory, and an iSight camera. And it takes no more space on your desk than a mini when you include the mini's display and keyboard.

[Eug Wanker]

Wow. Memory performance makes a HUGE difference with the Intel Mac mini:



U: unmatched memory
M: paired memory

P.S. It's really quite sad that a Core Duo 1.66 with GMA 950 is as slow as a Mac mini G4 1.42 with Radeon 9200, when unmatched memory is used.

Oh and UT2004 on the Intel Mac mini is absolutely abysmal:



Did they install the Intel patch for UT2004? My guess is yes, since the iMac 1.83 is 10X as fast.

[discotronic]

Very nasty performance.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Wow. Memory performance makes a HUGE difference with the Intel Mac mini:



U: unmatched memory
M: paired memory

P.S. It's really quite sad that a Core Duo 1.66 with GMA 950 is as slow as a Mac mini G4 1.42 with Radeon 9200, when unmatched memory is used.

Were they running the unmatched memory in single-channel or dual-channel mode?
The CPU has little to do with GMA950 performance.

[TheTraveller]

Originally Posted by reddogg

New Benchmarks for mini from Bare Feats
POOR INVESTMENT
In my humble opinion, the Mac mini is a poor investment unless you have a display, keyboard, and mouse you can't part with. You may pay more for the iMac Core Duo 1.83, but you get a lot more -- an LCD screen, a faster CPU, a much faster GPU, a faster/bigger hard drive, easy to install memory, and an iSight camera. And it takes no more space on your desk than a mini when you include the mini's display and keyboard.

D'oh! And I just ordered one, too! But that's cool, I didn't want an iMac (not so hot on the all-in-one machines), I want to wait for a Rev B or Next-Generation MacBook Pro, and I don't think I'll need the horsepower of the next "PowerMac" or whatever they're going to call it. The graphics performance in Quake/UT/WOW is veritably miserable, looks like - but I don't play games on my Mac, no time, alas.

[reddogg]

Apple is becoming more of an electronics/media company(ipods-itunes music,video) moving away from their mainstay-computers. What apple should do is abandon computers altogether and just concentrate on the software. Let other companies make the computers.
In essence that is just what the intel mac mini represents to me-an Intel computer with Apple's expensive Logo. I await the day that OSX operating system can be run on generic
pc boxes which would lead to more affordable computers. Now that Apple has gone
with Intel what is the difference other than form factor,design that will differentiate Apple's
computers from the PC's. Essentially it is all the same hardware and I believe this will
become more apparant as time marches on.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by lamewing

Wasting the money? So what other solution does a family have for buying a low-end Mac if the mini is a waste of money? Especially if they want something to take up as little space as possible. Buying used isn't necessarily a good choice for many folks since they want a warranty and not all used systems come with them.

Well first off I would say that if you are low on funds, you shouldnt be looking at purchasing a mac. At the lower cost bracket you'll get more bang for the buck buying a new pc instead. (I am leaving the mini-ness size factor out of this for now)

But if you insist on buying a 'value mac' and if you dont mind the lack of warranty, then I would say you should get a used one with a better video card or one with the option for a better video card, if you think you may ever play games someday, or if you have kids who may want to.

The space argument is silly. Since when did we need computers the size of a cd wallet? If you are that low on space around your desk then that is pretty sad, you need to clean up your frickin desk area or your frickin house.
There are some pretty small Dell and HP pcs you can buy these days, about the size of an XBOX360, I dont think thats very big.

The mac mini's small factor also makes it a lot harder to take apart and repair (which you may need to do once the warranty fades) Replacing the hard drive in a mini takes probably about 5x as long as doing it in a pc, and about twice as expensive!

I agree for the family that never intends on playing games, or fixing anything themselves, the mini is probably the choice if they insist on buying a mac, and not spending much.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by discotronic

More like $220. Apple has the bottom of the line refurb. G4 1.25GHz for $379. If a person doesn't need the things you mentioned or bluetooth and airport, this is a great way to go. As long as it is just for daily tasks like email, typing papers and etc.

I've seen these go for even cheaper than that in classified ads. Also there was an online store where you could buy a g4 mini and get a 15" lcd and nice printer all for $500. (figure the lcd and the printer alone are probably half that price) thats not a bad deal! And hey if the mini cant play games, you might as well not spend too much on it, right?

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by krillbee

I've seen these go for even cheaper than that in classified ads. Also there was an online store where you could buy a g4 mini and get a 15" lcd and nice printer all for $500. (figure the lcd and the printer alone are probably half that price) thats not a bad deal! And hey if the mini cant play games, you might as well not spend too much on it, right?

This is a very nice deal. Do you remember the site? I would replace my Mom's iBook for her with a price like that

[foo2]

Fry's has had similar deals. Last-gen mini with bundle for $599 or thereabouts.

[Tuishimi]

Originally Posted by foo2

Fry's has had similar deals. Last-gen mini with bundle for $599 or thereabouts.

That's not bad!

[F*ckDell]

Anyone got any ideas about hooking an LCD HDTV to an Intel Mini and using it as a Media Center? Would the Mini work well and look alright? Any problems you guys can think of that would change my mind?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by F*ckDell

Anyone got any ideas about hooking an LCD HDTV to an Intel Mini and using it as a Media Center? Would the Mini work well and look alright? Any problems you guys can think of that would change my mind?

Mac mini LCD TV thread

Bottom line: It does work with many TVs, but you have to be careful, because there are issues like overscan or simply incompatibility with certain TVs.

[elvis2000]

QUAKE 3? That's a 7 year old game. Less than 100 FPS is pathetic.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by discotronic

This is a very nice deal. Do you remember the site? I would replace my Mom's iBook for her with a price like that

there was a thread on this forum, about what happened to the old minis. in that thread someone posted the link. i dont remember the site, but ill check it out, and post it here when i find it.

edit:
heres the thread:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=287443

the site was microcenter.com, but i checked and it looks like the deal might be done.

[steve666]

Originally Posted by iKevin

I agree with your statement 100%

This is what i feared would happen with the Intel switch . . . they start adopting the crappy run of the mil PC hardware and wrap it in a fancy Mac looking shell and run the price up.

I'm very unimpressed . . . But on the bright side, it did save me money since I won't buy this :-)

I hope nobody buys the Mini.
Let Apple know that we won't accept Integrated graphics in a Mac. I already wrote to them .
Plus, they lost the $499 price point. Still no keyboard and mouse, minus the modem.
I'm not impressed that it has airport and bluetooth. They needed to stay at $499 with a 64Mb Graphics Card. IMHO

[Tuishimi]

Originally Posted by steve666

I hope nobody buys the Mini.
Let Apple know that we won't accept Integrated graphics in a Mac. I already wrote to them .
Plus, they lost the $499 price point. Still no keyboard and mouse, minus the modem.
I'm not impressed that it has airport and bluetooth. They needed to stay at $499 with a 64Mb Graphics Card. IMHO

I did, and I am not sorry. And I don't really agree with you. But that is the beauty of freedom of speech.

[elvis2000]

I had an Intel Mini for a day and returned it for a "last of it's kind" iMac G5. Intel ain't ready for prime-time... not with Office and Photoshop being the primarily used apps in the house.

P.S. Anyone noticed the overall picture quallity sucking just a tad?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by elvis2000

I had an Intel Mini for a day and returned it for a "last of it's kind" iMac G5. Intel ain't ready for prime-time... not with Office and Photoshop being the primarily used apps in the house.

P.S. Anyone noticed the overall picture quallity sucking just a tad?

Your statement is backwards. Office and Photoshop are not ready for prime time on an Intel-based Mac. That's the issue, not the new hardware.

I'm sticking it out and waiting until more software has come out in Universal Binary format before I buy. (Oh, and there's a slight matter of still saving my pennies... )

[TheTraveller]

Originally Posted by elvis2000

I had an Intel Mini for a day and returned it for a "last of it's kind" iMac G5. Intel ain't ready for prime-time... not with Office and Photoshop being the primarily used apps in the house.

P.S. Anyone noticed the overall picture quallity sucking just a tad?

A client of mine bought an Intel iMac, I was playing with it last week. I don't know about Photoshop, but I tried out Office and a few other non-Intel-native applications and it was very snappy - certainly much faster than the flat-panel iMac G4 it replaced. And of course, native apps, like Camino, were startlingly responsive compared to their PPC counterparts.

[Tuishimi]

Originally Posted by elvis2000

I had an Intel Mini for a day and returned it for a "last of it's kind" iMac G5. Intel ain't ready for prime-time... not with Office and Photoshop being the primarily used apps in the house.

P.S. Anyone noticed the overall picture quallity sucking just a tad?

Of the mini? Or the iMac? In truth, the picture quality is excellent on both! My iMac G5 20" is awesome, as is my mini core duo with Dell 2005FPW 20.1".

[steve666]

Originally Posted by Tuishimi

Of the mini? Or the iMac? In truth, the picture quality is excellent on both! My iMac G5 20" is awesome, as is my mini core duo with Dell 2005FPW 20.1".

How do you find net surfing on the Mini as compared to the iMac? Notice any difference in how Safari behaves and draws graphics at all?

[MacOS-Fan]

I also agree. The picture quality on my Mini is great and so is it on my Dad's iMac.

[zed57]

with regards to UT2004 performance, is it not universal binary yet?

[Tuishimi]

Originally Posted by steve666

How do you find net surfing on the Mini as compared to the iMac? Notice any difference in how Safari behaves and draws graphics at all?

No, I don't. Are you? Everything seems great. Actually, if anything, Camino seems to be handling animations better than with the G5. But that could be the build of Camino, and not the mini, I don't know. But it used to be with the smiley icons and all and any animated graphics would make text entry with Camino very tedious. Don't see that so much with my new mini.