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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Why the huge price gap between the MB and MBP?

Why the huge price gap between the MB and MBP?
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PGTX27
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Sep 8, 2006, 12:48 AM
 
Hello everyone. First, a brief history about me before I get flamed for my first post. I’m a former IT Director with 10+years of PC experience in standalone and network environments. However, I’ve been infatuated with the Mac Powerbook since I saw the first titanium model in a PC magazine almost four years ago. I’ve followed the development through MacNN and other sites since then. Although this is my first actual post, I’ve been a “post voyeur” here for three years. My current computer is at or very near E.O.L. and I’ll be buying a Powerbook in the next three to six months. Hopefully a 17” MBP loaded. With that said, here is my question.

In pricing new Mac’s, both MB’s and MBP’s, against their Windows counterparts, there seems to be a huge disparity in price between the MB’s and MBP’s. Specifically, I am looking at a white MB and a top of the line 17” MBP against similar Dell’s and HP’s. I know it is not an accurate comparison due to differences in form factor and software, but I got as close to equal as possible. Same processors, video cards, hard drives, memory, etc. The MB is very comparable in price to the PC’s after you add photo software, DVD authoring software, etc., but the 17” is $1000.00 (US) more than any similar 17” PC I’ve configured. The Mac is very thin, very stylish, lightweight and runs what I believe to be superior software. The problem is, I’m willing to sacrifice a little money for the differences mentioned above, but I’m looking at a middle of the road PC, not top of the line. For the same price as the 17”, I can get a PC with a TV tuner, built-in 10-key, dual 120 GB hard drives, Intel Core Duo 2 and a larger screen. (Acer and Dell both have 20+” screens. And yes, they are VERY heavy. That is not an issue for me.) I have done similar comparisons every six months or so for the last couple of years and this pricing difference has come up in just the last six to nine months. In fact, most of the earlier comparisons showed the Apple product was less expensive than the PC when fully loaded. IMO, the switch to Intel has hurt Apple as switchers are concerned. Without a ton of research, most PC people will look at notebooks with similar specs and buy the least expensive one. Period. I know the Mac is superior in many ways because I’ve done my research. I just don’t know if that superiority is worth an extra $1000. I hope this is just an anomaly that will be corrected with a new MBP release. What do you think?

I value the opinions of the MacNN group and that is why I’m posting my question in this forum. Thanks in advance for your kind replies.

(Dreambook for me: 17” MBP with an iPod dock that allows the iPod to slide inside the MBP similar to a PC card and double as an extra hard drive. Upgradeable video card. Easily upgradeable hard drive. Built in 10-key. Must either have a TV tuner or the ability to run Slingbox. And an extra battery would be nice. If the iPod was an Apple smart phone, that would be the ultimate. For me at least . )

-Paul.
     
Dr Reducto
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Sep 8, 2006, 12:50 AM
 
What can I say?

You pay dearly for the compact form factor and styling.
     
iREZ
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Sep 8, 2006, 03:27 AM
 
i think the difference is mainly because youre looking at a low end mb and the highest end mbp. if you chose the vice versa (high end mb vs low end mbp) you'll see its not THAT big a difference in price for what you get.
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
Simon
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Sep 8, 2006, 03:52 AM
 
Top of the line MB: $1499

Bottom MBP: $1999

Feature differences:
• Increased pixel count
• Much better GPU
• ExpressCard slot
• Matte screen option
• Thinner

If the price seems like a huge gap to you, chances are you don't value the added features and you'd be fine with a MB. Anybody who needs the additional features (expansion card options, large screen, gamer, etc.) will probably gladly pay $500 for them.
     
jdrumstik
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Sep 8, 2006, 04:06 AM
 
MBP targets people who need computers that are quite powerful, weather its games, graphics, or whatever. Whereas MBs are more targeted towards Interenet Browsers, and Word Doc people. As well as people who would rather have a very fast Desktop and then a laptop for the raod.

Me, I play games, and I never would have switched to Apple if it wasn't for BootCamp; but now Im in love. It happily runs Mac OS X until Firday night when I boot into Windoze for my beloved PC games coupled with my Logitec BlueTooth V270. (Although I wish I had 256MB of X1600 Power).
     
PGTX27  (op)
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Sep 8, 2006, 10:20 AM
 
Thanks for the replies. I guess I should have been clearer with my question. The problem that I am having isn't so mush the difference between the MB and MBP, but the price difference between the MB and a similar PC and a 17" MBP and a similar PC. In years past, the Mac's were competitive across the board and now it seems, at least as far as price is concerned, they are only competitive with their entry to mid level MB's.
     
iREZ
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Sep 8, 2006, 10:29 AM
 
video games...sounds like one hell of a friday night.

i keed i keed, but really?...friday night of all nights is your videogame night?

as for the op. are you smoking crack? macs were hardly ever competitive with their pc counterparts till recently. macpro is cheaper than its dell counter, and the mbp's are priced just fine when compared to dells offerings (mind you the mbp's usually have a few knick knacks here and there that the pc side just doesnt have).

i challenge you to show us what youre talking bout by linking your pc counters that put the mb and mbp pricing to shame (one 12"-14" entry level pc notebook and one 17" powerhouse notebook).
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
Andy8
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Sep 8, 2006, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon
Top of the line MB: $1499

Bottom MBP: $1999

Feature differences:
• Increased pixel count
• Much better GPU
• ExpressCard slot
• Matte screen option
• Thinner

If the price seems like a huge gap to you, chances are you don't value the added features and you'd be fine with a MB. Anybody who needs the additional features (expansion card options, large screen, gamer, etc.) will probably gladly pay $500 for them.
Backlit keyboards?
     
Simon
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Sep 8, 2006, 10:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Andy8
Backlit keyboards?
Duh, how could I have forgotten that one?

     
sray
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Sep 8, 2006, 11:01 AM
 
Paul,

I work for a defense contractor and we issue MBP as standard equipment to our new employees. Since I approve all purchases, I can add some insight to your question. As you've discovered, there are price differences between any two specific models. I don't know the direct answer to your question regarding 17" laptops. However, let me describe our rationale for going with MBP:

A 15.4" MBP with Core Duo 2Ghz, 1 GB Ram, 80GB Hard disk, Superdrive (DVD/RW) Bluetooth, Wifi, built in camera and the fancy form factor works out to $1999 (without AppleCare). I should point out that we have a corporate account with Apple and we get 7% of all non-server hardware (10% of xserves and 15% of all software).

A similar Dell would be the Latitude D820 with Core 2 Duo 2Ghz (no Core Duo option as of today), 1GB Ram, 80GB hard disk, Win XP Pro (no media), Bluetooth and Wifi (generic Dell option, not the pricier third party options) works out to $1,515. I should point out that the Latitude is a well known workhorse of a laptop and it has a superior video card and a 3 year mail in replacement option.

The face value price difference in favor of the Dell is a savings of $484. Some of that price difference is due to the fact that the Dell comes with almost no useful software and does not include the annual subscription price of an antivirus package. In our opinion (and this is an opinion only), the extremely low maintenance required of our MBP means that the savings in man-hours in maintenance easily pays for any price differential. A single man hour of one of our technicians to maintain a windows laptop runs around $80 - $100 /hr (fully loaded internal cost). We routinely get Latitudes coming back to us for virus/spyware removal. This becomes a fairly expensive proposition rather quickly.

Couple of other points. Our standard MBP has beefier specs (we add more third party RAM) and we install our standard software images (Office, etc.). We also add Parallels so our employees are not left flatfooted if dealing with a Windows centric client. Bottom line, it is been profitable for our business to use Macs rather than Dells.
     
TFunkadelic
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Sep 8, 2006, 02:25 PM
 
Aside from the features listed above, I feel that one thawt could be added to the list is build quality. When you buy a PC laptop, it's going to be made of plastic, and it's going to creek and make cheap sounds when you open it and close it. It will not feel aas nice as a computer made of metal, and even the plastic laptops apple offers feel much more solid than their pc counter parts.

Many PC laptops also don't offer firewire inputs like macs do, which is essential for me.

You guys also for got the auto adjusting screen light.
     
PGTX27  (op)
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Sep 8, 2006, 05:41 PM
 
sray, (and others) thanks for the insightful reply(s). I am trying to quantify the difference and to do so you have to put a $ amount on the details. Form factor, build quality, backlit keyboard, maintenance, etc. That's what I am trying to figure out. Thanks everyone.

(BTW, I will never buy a Dell machine again. A promise I made to a Dell supervisor after arguing for seven hours over a warranty issue.)

For iRez:

Since Intel does not offer the same processor anymore, I had to use this one. All of the other processor options were superior to Apple's current offerings. It's not an Apple, but it's not $2799 either.
Catalog Number: 29 E1705RFC1
Inspiron E1705 Intel® Core™ Duo Proc T2250 (1.73GHz/533MHz/2 X 1MB L2 Cache)
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005
LCD Panel 17 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen UXGA Display with TrueLife™
Memory 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz
Video Card 256MB ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON® X1400 HyperMemory
Hard Drive 100GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
Network Card Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Combo/DVD+RW Drives 8x CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Sound Options Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy™ HD Software Edition
Wireless Networking Cards Intel PRO/Wireless 3945a/g and Bluetooth
Office Software (not included in Windows XP) No productivity suite- Includes Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
Anti-Virus/Security Suite (Pre-installed) PC-cillin Internet Security: AntiVirus, Firewall, Spyware removal 36-months
Primary Battery 53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
Hardware Warranty 3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year At-Home Service plus Nights and Weekend
Dell On Call Dell On Call, 30day, Getting started Assistance, unlimited incidents
Dial-Up Internet Access 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
Miscellaneous Award Winning Service and Support
Dell Recycling Free Recycling Kit
Media Center Enhancements Remote Control for Windows XP Media Center Edition
Dell Digital Entertainment Premium Pack- Music & advanced photo: Deluxe pack + Corel Paint Shop Pro
Processor Branding Intel Centrino Core Duo Processor
TOTAL:$1,647.20
     
PGTX27  (op)
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Sep 8, 2006, 05:56 PM
 
My apologies iRez. I found a Dell M90 17" that is also very similar in specs to the MBP. The M90 does not use shared memory. Otherwise, it is very close to the Inspiron above. Cost? $3100. Maybe I answered my own question. Maybe the build quality alone is worthy of the $1100 price difference. It seems to be a huge premium on the Dell as well.
     
mduell
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Sep 9, 2006, 11:02 AM
 
The 17" Apple is more expensive than any other 17" on the market (except maybe one of those Acer Ferrari things) because it's much thinner and lighter. Plus Apple still follows the "larger screen means more features/performance" model, while every other OEM lets you get a low-end CPU/RAM/GPU/disk/etc with a giant screen if you want.
     
Wiskedjak
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Sep 9, 2006, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by PGTX27
(BTW, I will never buy a Dell machine again. A promise I made to a Dell supervisor after arguing for seven hours over a warranty issue.)
Then you can't really use Dell for comparison, can you?
     
PGTX27  (op)
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Sep 9, 2006, 03:25 PM
 
Wiskedjak, good point about the Dell. HP's and Acer's are similarly configured and priced, it was just easier to find the Dell spec's so I used them in the example.

Mark, that really hits the nail on the head for me. I want a low-end 17" laptop and Apple doesn't make one yet. I will find uses for the added features of the Apple, so it's a matter of whether or not I want to spend the extra money for those features.

Thanks again everyone.
     
n8236
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Sep 9, 2006, 07:30 PM
 
Video card video card video card. No to mention the metal casing
     
Simon
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Sep 10, 2006, 03:44 AM
 
Apple has always tied screen size to features.

The 12" PB was crippled compared to the 15" for no obvious reason (no heat was not a reason, they eventually got the same stuff, just later). The 17" had the clock of the upgraded 15", etc.

And with the MBs now, I don't see this strategy coming to an end soon.
     
Kyros
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Sep 11, 2006, 12:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by PGTX27
I want a low-end 17" laptop and Apple doesn't make one yet.
Yet? They never will, so you probably should stop waiting for that.
g4/1.5 GHz 12 inch powerbook / 1.25 RAM / 80 gig / Superdrive / 10.5.6
g3/400 MHz Pismo / 640 RAM / 40 gig / Combo Drive / 10.3.9
     
   
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